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[RoboGeorgeForeman]

Nothing from what I've seen is as grievous as that. Those are literally two different games. This is a previously golden-flickery wall now being grey.

I'm not outraged, nor do I care enough to participate in this twitter... thing, but it is a lot less trivial than that. Darkness was supposed to play a major role in the game and as a result you were supposed to be forced to carry torches to see around dark caves or unlit rooms. You can't carry another weapon or shield in your offhand if you're carrying a torch, so it would have made things really interesting from a gameplay perspective. Now, even on the darkest setting I can see in one of the darkest areas of the game without a torch, so it is a bit disappointing.

 

[Daingurse]

I just want to know the status of the PC version.

Precisely.

 

[CountAntonius]

I'm not sure if that's just a poorly transcribed sentence or if the plot has thickened. That would be... weird.

It would also explain why the footage previewed months ago seems to be of the retail build and the footage leading up to the release was a much older, better looking build. Maybe Namco was marketing the game without good communication with From and used older footage?

 

[Krusenstern]

If not even the PC version will look like any of the pre-release footage then we know they did bullshit us.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Before anyone attacks me, I want to make it clear I loved Dark Souls and will be buying DS2 the day it comes out on PC.

But

FROM could probably promise people the game would jack them off every time they hit a button and people would insist it was a totally valid and likely thing that could happen because FROM said it up until the moment it becomes clear it won't happen.

The sheer number of people who swore up and down that the PC delay was so they could do the best possible job and not marketing bullshit is fucking crazy. There was so much "But they said it was so they could make it the best version!" Developers deliver on that all the time without half the bullshit that was hung around DS2 PC's neck. People gave them the benefit of the doubt because they were so bad at it last time.

You know why this game was downgraded? Because they can say and show whatever they want and people will be happy to fall on any grenade for it. It is probably a great, amazing game that I am putting down $50 for, but let's not act like they didn't know they'd be insulated from any and all criticism.

 

[Maddrical]

You can't be serious. Did you even play Demon's? There's nothing in this game that comes close to the atmosphere in that game, and there's only a few areas that are similar to what were in Dark.
The mood of this game is nothing like either of the previous two.

I've completed Demon's Souls & Dark Souls multiple times, atmosphere in Dark Souls 2 from what I've played so far is just as rich and exciting as the other two. The lighting downgrade is horrible, yes, but to say it kills the atmosphere completely is just silly. Heides Tower of Flame looks incredible.

 

[nynt9]

To those saying torches have been made pointless and downgraded, here's my personal screenshot. This area is near impossible to navigate without torches because you can't see more than a few feet ahead:

 

[Sanctuary]

Yes, I imported it. I even played the Kings Field series before that.

You must have forgotten what kind of atmosphere it had then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsNSiI3OsWU&feature=player_detailpage#t=201
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDkebqWdHhQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPn-YCnn7FM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MIfCEPDU94

I have two areas left until I've finished Dark Souls 2, and not once did it ever remind me of Demon's, aside from some recyled architecture and color (yet ironically they managed to make it even more drab). The atmosphere just isn't there.

I've completed Demon's Souls & Dark Souls multiple times, atmosphere in Dark Souls 2 from what I've played so far is just as rich and exciting as the other two. The lighting downgrade is horrible, yes, but to say it kills the atmosphere completely is just silly. Heides Tower of Flame looks incredible.

Clearly some of you don't understand what atmosphere means. The first two games were very oppressive and dark, this isn't at all. I never feel like I'm alone or that there's any reason to feel despair. There's never any sense of urgency or dread for what's around the corner (in the dark). This doesn't evoke the same feelings as the previous two.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I'm not outraged, nor do I care enough to participate in this twitter... thing, but it is a lot less trivial than that. Darkness was supposed to play a major role in the game and as a result you were supposed to be forced to carry torches to see around dark caves or unlit rooms. You can't carry another weapon or shield in your offhand if you're carrying a torch, so it would have made things really interesting from a gameplay perspective. Now, even on the darkest setting I can see in one of the darkest areas of the game without a torch, so it is a bit disappointing.

I feel like any role darkness would have played would be an actual game system and not just "you can see this and now you cant." But thats my assumption. Its weak as fuck DS2 doesn't look top notch.

To those saying torches have been made pointless and downgraded, here's my personal screenshot. This area is near impossible to navigate without torches because you can't see more than a few feet ahead:

^See, its still there!

 

[mattiewheels]

What the hell kind of 'answers' are people looking for? What would they have for you? The facts are all there, they downgraded the lighting to obviously allow the game to be fully playable on ancient systems, there's your answer right there. Maybe you guys are confusing 'answers' with 'public apology'.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

To those saying torches have been made pointless and downgraded, here's my personal screenshot. This area is near impossible to navigate without torches because you can't see more than a few feet ahead

See, its still there!

I had absolutely no issue navigating the area without a torch. I probably missed a few items since I was rushing through my first time through, but I never had any issues seeing anything and outside of one douchebag enemy that surprised me at the base of a ladder, I was never caught off guard either.

Maybe your brightness was set too high? There are so many pits that you can fall into if you can't see properly.

I turned it to the lowest setting I could and my TV brightness has never been crazy high either.

Edit: I also remember it being significantly harder to see in the network test.

 

[nynt9]

I had absolutely no issue navigating the area without a torch. I probably missed a few items since I was rushing through my first time through, but I never had any issues seeing anything and outside of one douchebag enemy that surprised me at the base of a ladder, I was never caught off guard either.

Maybe your brightness was set too high? There are so many pits that you can fall into if you can't see properly.

 

[CountAntonius]

Before anyone attacks me, I want to make it clear I loved Dark Souls and will be buying DS2 the day it comes out on PC.

But

FROM could probably promise people the game would jack them off every time they hit a button and people would insist it was a totally valid and likely thing that could happen because FROM said it up until the moment it becomes clear it won't happen.

The sheer number of people who swore up and down that the PC delay was so they could do the best possible job and not marketing bullshit is fucking crazy. There was so much "But they said it was so they could make it the best version!" Developers deliver on that all the time without half the bullshit that was hung around DS2 PC's neck. People gave them the benefit of the doubt because they were so bad at it last time.

You know why this game was downgraded? Because they can say and show whatever they want and people will be happy to fall on any grenade for it. It is probably a great, amazing game that I am putting down $50 for, but let's not act like they didn't know they'd be insulated from any and all criticism.

I personally think they delayed it cause they prioritized the more troubled console version and wanted to get that sorted and out of the way before putting the finishing touches and releasing the PC game which if it was the lead platform wouldn't need as much work. That being said I'm not expecting a drastically different game.

 

[ironcreed]

All I know is the game is an absolute beast with way more content and updated visuals. Good enough for me, but I wish you well in seeking your explanation.

 

[Havel]

To those saying torches have been made pointless and downgraded, here's my personal screenshot. This area is near impossible to navigate without torches because you can't see more than a few feet ahead:

I don't think anyone is saying they have been made completely useless. I would have hoped at least 1 part of the game needed torches, even without the downgrade, otherwise what would be the point in keeping torches in the game? But certainly, the major mechanic that From where touting until release is gone.

 

[MilkBeard]

In this case, cutting graphical features actually impacted the gameplay. The whole torch mechanic is gone.

The game should have been delayed until

A. the lighting worked properly and the torch mechanic was retained
or
B. the previously pitch-black areas were redesigned to account for the lighting changes. (Fix the repetitive textures, remove the useless sconces, etc.)

The torch mechanic is still there. There are some uses for it later in the game. Also, the lighting is technically still there, but it's mostly visible in only certain circumstances.

Honestly, I guess I just don't care that much about this whole 'deception' because the game delivers on a gameplay standpoint. I'm having a blast. I guess I didn't really take the bait about the whole lighting system thing being revolutionary. I just wanted to play a new Souls game, and that's what I got.

Anyway, I can't stop anyone from doing anything, but I think this whole reaction is a bit hyperbolic. However, if the PC version comes and it also has the downgrade then I can understand people being upset. However, like any game being shown in an incomplete state, changes are bound to be made.

It would be interesting to hear a statement about the downgrade, at least.

 

[Ahasverus]

The biggest scam ever from a japanese company.

 

[Openworldgamer47]

I'm waiting on the Playstation 4 version. I did purchase the Playstation 3 version and am absolutely loving it so far. The frame rate seems very very choppy at first but you'll get used to it fast and not notice it at all. For graphics wise I'm very impressed the Playstation 3 can even run this game to be honest. So my expectations weren't very high in the first place graphically.

 

[TimeEffect]

Hadn't seen these. Thanks. ( I still dont feel it adds any weight to the argument) But common sensically I can absolutely see and sympathize with everyone here. One of those gifs is badass the other one isnt'.



but come on people

Come on people, what?

I dont understand how it doesn't add ANY weight to the argument, when it clearly is one of the staple controversies here. There are some games that downgrade. Then there's this where new, promising mechanics are removed without proper notice.

 

[SonyToo!™]

Don't think this is going to happen, here's why:

FROM need to be careful as they are generally a niche developer where being honest with the player base is a necessary thing, acting like a AAA might be the right thing for Dark Souls 2 sales but in doing so they might burn their bridges for their other IPs.

They can't just play honest John with DS1 PC's PR, do a EA for DS2 and expect gamers to trust them in the future.

 

[mechphree]

people were complaining the game was to dark during the demo trials. Im guessing this feed back led to the lighting change.

 

[Havel]

EDIT: Ignore this, wrong response.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I have a properly calibrated TV and have DS2 on the lowest brightness setting and have needed torches in one area (that area, I think).

 

[cascardian]

It would also explain why the footage previewed months ago seems to be of the retail build and the footage leading up to the release was a much older, better looking build. Maybe Namco was marketing the game without good communication with From and used older footage?

This seems very likely the more I think about it.

 

[Levyne]

First time seeing those mansion image comparisons. Holy moly. I kind of though this whole thing was an overreaction until I saw those.

 

[SargerusBR]

Watch as the answer will probably be

"We are aware of the situation and will have more details closer to the PC release"

 

[Maddrical]

Clearly some of you don't understand what atmosphere means. The first two games were very oppressive and dark, this isn't at all. I never feel like I'm alone or that there's any reason to feel despair. There's never any sense of urgency or dread for what's around the corner (in the dark). This doesn't evoke the same feelings as the previous two.

I think some of this also comes with your now familiarity with the series and atmosphere. Playing Demon's Souls for the first time was the first experience with this atmosphere with this kind of technology so of course it's going to look and feel really impressive. You've clearly played a lot more of Dark Souls 2 than I have so you have more credit to your opinion but what I've played of DS2 has had dark sections and light sections, and I've been nervous as shit of what is around the corner at times. I do think the previous lighting would make a huge difference in atmosphere and darkness, but at the same time I'm not complaining with what I've played so far. It's exactly what I was hoping for (so far).

 

[CountAntonius]

Meaning what removing older builds from previews?

 

[nynt9]

The biggest scam ever from a japanese company.

Scam, really? The game is still there and is exactly the sequel DS1 deserves, and it's the biggest scam ever from a Japanese company? Alright. (By the way Aliens: Colonial Marines was published by Sega, a Japanese company).

Why is everyone ignoring the videos by Vaati and several other youtubers that were put out a month or so before the game came out that show the final version? The ones that people recorded when Namco Bandai called a bunch of people into their offices to play the game? Why are we only cherry picking old build videos that have clearly been made redundant by newer videos that were put out BEFORE the game came out?

It would also explain why the footage previewed months ago seems to be of the retail build and the footage leading up to the release was a much older, better looking build. Maybe Namco was marketing the game without good communication with From and used older footage?

This right here. PR always regurgitates old build videos to market games. The time of the release of a video does not reflect the state of the game at that time.

 

[Broritos]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this game was rushed a little. Judging not just by the visuals but also the frame rate and the reused assets. There's nothing wrong with reused assets but this game just seems like Dark Souls 1 but with new levels.

It could be that the release of the new consoles made NamcoBandai want the game to be released sooner rather than later in concerns that interest in new games released on the older console might wane.

Just speculating.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Dang, I just checked and that's not in response to our issue. MeganJ posted a link about not having their preorder bonus.

Why is everyone ignoring the videos by Vaati and several other youtubers that were put out a month or so before the game came out that show the final version? The ones that people recorded when Namco Bandai called a bunch of people into their offices to play the game? Why are we only cherry picking old build videos that have clearly been made redundant by newer videos that were put out BEFORE the game came out?

Can you provide a link to the videos that highlight any changes?

 

[allgamespc]

Even if they respond, what does that response achieve?

i would personally like to know if the PC version is going to be gimped like the console version and where is the game they showed before. Thats all, not that hard

 

[Havel]

Dang, I just checked and that's not in response to our issue. MeganJ posted a link about not having their preorder bonus.

Yeah just saw that. It's in the same thread as it though and it's quite confusing.

 

[Ahasverus]

Scam, really? The game is still there and is exactly the sequel DS1 deserves, and it's the biggest scam ever from a Japanese company? Alright. (By the way Aliens: Colonial Marines was published by Sega, a Japanese company).
.

Because they sold us a lie? The game we expected, the game we /played/ one month before release is not the same we got. Plain and simple. They knew they were decieving. But there's a defense force for everything of course. Good for you, I won't give my money to snakeoil salesmen anymore (I bought the game before the debacle, silly me).

 

[MilkBeard]

videogamer.com ran a story on this, and, well, it's possible Namco didn't even know:

Interesting. That video showcasing them side by side in the article does show that early footage does in fact look a hell of a lot better. Actually, it looks more next gen, or high-end PC and looks nothing like what could even be achieved with a PS3 or Xbox 360.

I wonder if they just built up a very fancy demo for that small area but it was only meant to showcase the game in the most extreme way. This is a curious affair though, and from what I've seen of the PC shots, it doesn't look like it will be that good either.

The funny thing is that we've had this video and some others, all the while the official screenshots always looked terrible, at least the ones that they released of the real game.

 

[-MD-]

He did still acknowledge the Neogaf link though with the "Thanks!" tweet.

 

[Havel]

He did still acknowledge the Neogaf link though with the "Thanks!" tweet.

Yeah, I still got that in the OP.

 

[TheCongressman1]

He did still acknowledge the Neogaf link though with the "Thanks!" tweet.

Right, there's that at least.

 

[Lasthope106]

I personally would like FROM to come out clean and be honest about this whole mess. Explain exactly what we are getting with the pc version. No PR bullshit, just the truth.

 

[Dr. Kaos]

Boy, that's a pretty noticeable downgrade. As a Dark Souls fan, I am not pleased.

Glad I cancelled my PS3 preorder. Will wait for PC version and see what the lighting looks like.

Whatever happened to early builds looking WORSE than new build, hmmm? Just sayin'...

 

[mattiewheels]

i would personally like to know if the PC version is going to be gimped like the console version and where is the game they showed before. Thats all, not that hard

That doesn't sound like info a PR department would ever divulge, they want to maximize sales on the console versions with the infinite userbases before the PC one hits and that would mess that up.

 

[Openworldgamer47]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this game was rushed a little. Judging not just by the visuals but also the frame rate and the reused assets. There's nothing wrong with reused assets but this game just seems like Dark Souls 1 but with new levels.

It could be that the release of the new consoles made NamcoBandai want the game to be released sooner rather than later in concerns that interest in new games released on the older console might wane.

Just speculating.

Who cares if they literally just copy and pasted things? The games fun as HELL and more frustratingly difficult then ever! I would have like them to remodel some of the characters though like the hell hounds.

 

[ethanny2]

Did not notice it was this severe, however I trust in the PC mod community to fix this...so not that upset

Spoiler

Durante pls

 

[mechphree]

TBH I doubt the PC version will be that much better at all in terms of lighting. It seems like it's going to be left to the modding community to fix that.

 

[Krusenstern]

Did not notice it was this severe, however I trust in the PC mod community to fix this...so not that upset

Spoiler

Durante pls

Yeah, I can't wait for the mod where he restores the lighting engine to resemble the previous builds...

 

[cascardian]

This right here. PR always regurgitates old build videos to market games. The time of the release of a video does not reflect the state of the game at that time.

So you're basically saying that PR has been trying to fool us... which is what the threads are about in the first place. Right.

We've been through this.

The Steam page is using the old build. The PlayStation channel is using the old build. Some previews are based on the old build, some on the new one. It is incredibly confusing to follow and very hard to distinguish the builds based on the very specific footage shown in the preview (Eurogamer's, .e.g.). Other areas in the game are remarkably easier to tell apart, though.

What kind of messaging is that? If not intentionally deceiving, then it is at very least incompetent and possibly a communication issue between FROM and Bamco. Either way, the consumer loses.

 

[nynt9]

Because they sold us a lie? The game we expected, the game we /played/ one month before release is not the same we got. Plain and simple. They knew they were decieving. But there's a defense force for everything of course. Good for you, I won't give my money to snakeoil salesmen anymore (I bought the game before the debacle, silly me).

Your point is only valid if you ignore the second half of my post, which you conveniently didn't quote:

Why is everyone ignoring the videos by Vaati and several other youtubers that were put out a month or so before the game came out that show the final version? The ones that people recorded when Namco Bandai called a bunch of people into their offices to play the game? Why are we only cherry picking old build videos that have clearly been made redundant by newer videos that were put out BEFORE the game came out?

 

[pretty done]

You can't be serious. Did you even play Demon's? There's nothing in this game that comes close to the atmosphere in that game, and there's only a few areas that are similar to what were in Dark.
The mood of this game is nothing like either of the previous two.

This thread lmao

 

[TheCongressman1]

Your point is only valid if you ignore the second half of my post, which you conveniently didn't quote:

Again, which videos highlight the changes?

Yeah, I can't wait for the mod where he restores the lighting engine to resemble the previous builds...

It happened for Skyrim. The other night I tried to get anyone with modding knowhow to tell me if this kind of thing would be possible for DS, but I guess no one really knows.

 

[Broritos]

Who cares if they literally just copy and pasted things? The games fun as HELL and more frustratingly difficult then ever! I would have like them to remodel some of the characters though like the hell hounds.

The lighting system could've changed the gameplay quite significantly. Also, a lot of people care, as do I. This game, in fact, this series in general could and should be improved upon.