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[dreamfall]

Yeah I think its starting to become clear that the PC version was what we were seeing

Though it would be nice to get some more direct comparisons between the Beta and release since people are still claiming the difference there was huge as well..

I'd like these direct comparisons too. Beta footage/frame rate analysis side by side with the released console versions.

If we're making these claims, there needs to be direct evidence. From the breakdown Grief posted, even from the first reveal I figured they were showing off a build from their lead platform. So hopefully the PC version does reflect that.

 

[ThatGayWolf]

I have not seen any video or image of this game since it was announced , so the dowgradetion effect wont work for me , my only question is if this game has better graphics than the previous one or at least similar ones

I will be worried if it has worse graphics than DS one .

Roommate and I bought Demon's souls again last night, and I'd argue (as he agreed last night) that even that has better lighting than DS2.

 

[cascardian]

I'm not defending the downgrade or anything, but I think it's silly for people to raise up pitchforks for a couple hours and then for the next couple hours frolic through Dark Souls II loving the crap out of it.

It's not the first time an advertisement has shown you the ideal which is why I posted the Whopper picture. Sure, people might like the taste, but for people who never go to burger king and see the ideal advertised on tv it's the same exact scenario. It's weird how someone will say touched up images are bad for adverts in one scenario, but not the other, especially if you're outraged by Dark Souls II not being what was advertised. If you want to complain about adverts you might as well attack all of them.

I think there are bigger issues to waste my time on than attacking a game that I am satisfied with.

You're not making sense. Just because you think it's silly that the complainants are still able to enjoy the game (which is a perfectly fair capability any adult should possess) and don't feel like they're wasting their time here, it's morally okay to tell them their (reasonably defensible) efforts are worthless and what they ought to do with their own spare time? Also, what is it with the absolutism here? One personally needs to attack all false ads if you disagree with one of them? Sure, this is a matter of principle, but you do know that people only have a limited amount of time to give to a hobby and that nobody can fix the world by themselves? The topic of this thread is Dark Souls II and not the well-documented photographic abuses of fast-food chains. What we are dealing with is one thing and not another. Other people are dealing with other things, which also, for your information, does actually lead to concrete results.

If you personally feel it's not worth your time (which is definitely also a reasonably defensible stance), then what are you doing here?

 

[The Lamp]

Give me a break. In what world do you guys live in where you thought there weren't going to be sacrifices made leading up to launch? These are 8 year old consoles they're developing for. Clearly, someone made the right call to value frame rate over graphics, and I'm happy they did. Frame rate on DS1 (consoles) was a disaster, and honestly made playing the game a slog.

I'm all for more transparency from publishers and developers, but can you imagine Namco/From making it a point to tell the media they had to cut back on some of the graphical features? No publisher anywhere is going to do that, ever.

Stop trying to turn this into some kind of crusade. Everyone on GAF, were they in the shoes of whichever person decided to show the buffed up PC footage, would have made the exact same decision.

1. This is more than the average sacrifices you see leading up to a retail product.
2. The game looks like a PS2 games at times. Really, really bad. Sometimes it looks like a nice, typical PS360 game, but at times (like the basement of the dungeon Cardinal Tower in Forest of the Fallen Giants with the fire salamanders) it even looks almost PS1 quality. I was laughing at the ground and fire there when I saw it on my TV.
3. If there was a huge gap between PC and console quality, they should have made that clear before shipping the product and not used the same video and screenshots and video to market the different versions of the product.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Since Uncharted 3 gameplay among many other current gen games looked the same or better than old demos...

Dude not a fair comparison

Technical achievement and know how employed by various talented teams is hard to recreate unless they have the same staff and tools.

There are just too many factors involved in game development to make that kind of statement.

Uncharted 3 is beautiful but could the same result be emulated at From Software? Not that simple.

 

[legacyzero]

"Entitlement, the thread."

Really, now...

 

[DrROBschiz]

1. This is more than the average sacrifices you see leading up to a retail product.
2. The game looks like a PS2 games at times. Really, really bad. Sometimes it looks like a nice, typical PS360 game, but at times (like the basement of the dungeon Cardinal Tower in Forest of the Fallen Giants with the fire salamanders) it even looks almost PS1 quality. I was laughing at the ground and fire there when I saw it on my TV.
3. If there was a huge gap between PC and console quality, they should have made that clear before shipping the product and not used the same video and screenshots and video to market the different versions of the product.

Well given how old the consoles are I imagine the GAP was implied.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Dark Souls, of all games too.

 

[The Lamp]

I have not seen any video or image of this game since it was announced , so the dowgradetion effect wont work for me , my only question is if this game has better graphics than the previous one or at least similar ones

I will be worried if it has worse graphics than DS one .

At times it is worse, way worse. Other times it's about the same and a few times you're like "wow that looks kinda nice" like staring at the ocean horizon in Majule.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This is how boss fog looks on retail:

Dude not a fair comparison

Technical achievement and know how employed by various talented teams is hard to recreate unless they have the same staff and tools.

There are just too many factors involved in game development to make that kind of statement.

Uncharted 3 is beautiful but could the same result be emulated at From Software? Not that simple.

I'm not talking about technical achivement only, I'm talking that in most games old builds don't dramatically look better than retail versions.

 

[benicillin]

1. This is more than the average sacrifices you see leading up to a retail product.
2. The game looks like a PS2 games at times. Really, really bad. Sometimes it looks like a nice, typical PS360 game, but at times (like the basement of the dungeon Cardinal Tower in Forest of the Fallen Giants with the fire salamanders) it even looks almost PS1 quality.
3. If there was a huge gap between PC and console quality, they should have made that clear before shipping the product and not used the same video and screenshots and video to market the different versions of the product.

I find it really hard to believe people can be serious when comparing DS2 to PS1 or even PS2 titles. Dark Souls 2 is a far cry from either. The textures are no worse than the previous games, and having played Demons and Dark Souls extensively I'd say even with the downgrade it looks better than either on PS3.

 

[DrROBschiz]

This is how boss fog looks on retail:

Ok but this is misleading

That is one blurry ass screenshot man

Game does not look this bad on PS3

 

[ThatGayWolf]

Dude not a fair comparison

Technical achievement and know how employed by various talented teams is hard to recreate unless they have the same staff and tools.

There are just too many factors involved in game development to make that kind of statement.

Uncharted 3 is beautiful but could the same result be emulated at From Software? Not that simple.

Not a fair comparison? How? The argument was that DS2 couldn't POSSIBLY look that good on a PS3. Clearly, it can. Whether From is capable of that is a separate issue.

 

[VoidZero]

"Entitlement, the thread."

Are you using Entitlement as a derogatory term?
If so:
Don't comment when, you don't understand the issue.
The exit is to your left. Leave your gamer card behind when you leave.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Ok but this is misleading

That is one blurry ass screenshot man

Game does not look this bad on PS3

Is a quick capture to show the new boss fog effect.

 

[DrROBschiz]

This is how boss fog looks on retail:

I'm not talking about technical achivement only, I'm talking that in most games old builds don't dramatically look better than retail versions.

PC was lead development platform with a Next gen focus when building the engine

Ps3/360 are essentially ports that needed to be optimized for the older consoles hence the resulting retail product

At least thats my assumption and what I expected when they announced the game

 

[marrec]

Are you using Entitlement as a derogatory term?
If so:
Don't comment when, you don't understand the issue.
The exit is to your left. Leave your gamer card behind when you leave.

I never got my gamer card.

I hope it's in the mail.

PC was lead development platform with a Next gen focus when building the engine

Ps3/360 are essentially ports that needed to be optimized for the older consoles hence the resulting retail product

At least thats my assumption and what I expected when they announced the game

This all has me wondering if the game was optimized and running on PS3 ever at all, or if it was just specific areas shown on PS3 with darker lighting, or if it was all shown on PC from the beginning.

 

[Grief.exe]

Ok but this is misleading

That is one blurry ass screenshot man

Game does not look this bad on PS3

Irrelevant, boss fog is still completely different from the TGS trailer which is what the discussion was centered on.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104367168&postcount=988

 

[The Lamp]

Well given how old the consoles are I imagine the GAP was implied.

How are people supposed to "infer" some sort of gap at the magnitude that seems to be present when they are marketing the game as if there was no gap? They are using these outdated builds in videos and screenshots to market the March 11th launch of the game. That is dishonest. The console beta and demos looked way better than retail, even.

The game looks like dogshit sometimes, like launch-era PS3 games or worse. I certainly wasn't expecting that from a game sequel that supposedly has a more stable development cycle with PC as lead platform.

 

[legacyzero]

I'm ready to pre-order on Steam and still, I kinda hope it doesn't. Only so that some of the people with the drive-by snarky posts join the ranks of the outraged as well. I can't help but think this attitude is detrimental to all gamers.

I know Im probably gonna catch some hate for this, but the PC version SHOULD be better looking. For ANY game. But then we have FROM stating (IIRC) that the PC version is superior to the console versions in a lot of areas, like resolution. So for them to not follow up on this, would just add to the lie, and makes things worse.

 

[quetz67]

Don't buy the game! Shut up!

 

[kick51]

Leave your gamer card behind when you leave.

lol

 

[pa22word]

Stop trying to turn this into some kind of crusade. Everyone on GAF, were they in the shoes of whichever person decided to show the buffed up PC footage, would have made the exact same decision.

Do you collect a check twice monthly from Namco by chance?

 

[Kai Dracon]

Dark Souls, of all games too.

Well, we are talking about the Dark Souls of downgrades here.

 

[Krusenstern]

"Entitlement, the thread."

Don't buy the game! Shut up!

Is this thread here modded actually?

 

[Scrawnton]

At first I was on the bandwagon for this game being downgraded and the lighting poor; however, that was when I had the brightness setting turned up too high where I could see both symbols in the game options. When I changed my settings to what the game suggest (symbol on left barely visible and the right is missing) I felt the graphics were better. The lighting and torches became meaningful and the game no longer looked washed out. The game, and graphics, look great when carrying a torch, but the it looks dark and hard to see without one.

I think the game looks so washed out and grey with all these screen shots because people might have brightness turned up too high at the game option level. Once I lowered it, the downgrade was no longer an issue and the lighting was perfect because now the torch is needed.

 

[dan2026]

Do you collect a check twice monthly from Namco by chance?

The hell does this have to do with Namco?

They didn't make the game.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Not a fair comparison? How? The argument was that DS2 couldn't POSSIBLY look that good on a PS3. Clearly, it can. Whether From is capable of that is a separate issue.

Thats exactly what I am saying

Development was prioritized on PC. This is well documented. Im not sure how much time was devoted to maximizing and optimizing the console versions to their fullest potential

Maybe they did make an effort to hit that target and found that after the extensive testing and beta that they just couldn't make it happen.

So you want them to own up to it even though the console version is perfectly playable and the superior CORE version is on the way?

 

[ThatGayWolf]

Is this thread here modded actually?

I think the second one was a joke at least

Thats exactly what I am saying

Development was prioritized on PC. This is well documented. Im not sure how much time was devoted to maximizing and optimizing the console versions to their fullest potential

Maybe they did make an effort to hit that target and found that after the extensive testing and beta that they just couldn't make it happen.

So you want them to own up to it even though the console version is perfectly playable and the superior CORE version is on the way?

And I'm saying that the person you were replying to wasn't saying what you were replying to. You were arguing a completely separate issue.

Also, they've said nothing about whether PC will look different from PS3/360. And if it does, that will provide a noticeably different gameplay experience for pc gamers compared to console gamers, which, controls aside, is generally a no-no.

 

[marrec]

Is this thread here modded?

I'm sure it will be.

Also, I JUST NOW realized that the #YOULIED hashtag is a parody of the YOU DIED message.

God I feel dumb now. :lol

 

[Exotoro]

usually graphics don't matter that much to me but if you're going to practically lie about how it looks for no reason whatsoever then we need a reason why you did

 

[TatteredHat]

Can't say I'm too bothered by the fact that they scrapped most of the torch mechanic, game's still amazing to play and is miles ahead of DS1 in terms of graphical fidelity.

But I didn't watch any pre-release footage, so there's that.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

PC was lead development platform with a Next gen focus when building the engine

Ps3/360 are essentially ports that needed to be optimized for the older consoles hence the resulting retail product

At least thats my assumption and what I expected when they announced the game

Consider that the TGS demo was running on PS3.

Gameplay reveal was surely running on PC, but later demos/builds ran on PS3 and a number of gaming shows, while looking much better than the retail.

 

[GamingIsDead]

Speaking completely off-topicly from the current discussion, but as someone who was interested in Dark Souls II before hand, I'm very glad they removed the torch mechanics as described in this thread. Would have made it even more of a nightmare to play than Dark Souls I was.

Many people expressed this during beta as well as the performance issues. Due to user input they made these changes to kill 2 birds with one stone.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=89248087&postcount=2573
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85852549&postcount=597
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85862998&postcount=752
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85872787&postcount=830
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85875154&postcount=838
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=89167090&postcount=2247
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=89248570&postcount=2579

 

[DrROBschiz]

How are people supposed to "infer" some sort of gap at the magnitude that seems to be present when they are marketing the game as if there was no gap? They are using these outdated builds in videos and screenshots to market the March 11th launch of the game. That is dishonest. The console beta and demos looked way better than retail, even.

The game looks like dogshit sometimes, like launch-era PS3 games or worse. I certainly wasn't expecting that from a game sequel that supposedly has a more stable development cycle with PC as lead platform.

I really want to see more comparison shots to extend this claim

We have conflicting reports but the consensus is that the Beta looked awesome but had framerate issues?

 

[pa22word]

The hell does this have to do with Namco?

They didn't make the game.

They did publish the game in the west and as such were responsible for all marketing.

That's beside the point though. If you're taking that statement literally, you might want to step away from gaf for a few mins...

 

[Stone Ocean]

The Dark Souls of downgrades

This needs to be the title of the PC OT

 

[Exalted]

These shadow and lightning changes are huge and in some pics it looks like there are 2 completely diferent games.

People that are dismising these complains, need to understand that these complaints are not the same as the ones where people complain that a game is 720p instead of 900p or 1080p.
It doesn't look like just the graphics have been downgraded, it looks like the whole game as a whole has been downgraded, the atmosphere and some of the mechanics asociated with it.

 

[ThatGayWolf]

miles ahead of DS1 in terms of graphical fidelity.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[The Lamp]

I find it really hard to believe people can be serious when comparing DS2 to PS1 or even PS2 titles. Dark Souls 2 is a far cry from either. The textures are no worse than the previous games, and having played Demons and Dark Souls extensively I'd say even with the downgrade it looks better than either on PS3.

I completely disagree. There are indoor areas and corridors that look somewhat similar to something out of the Harry Potter games for PS2. From the floor below the ladder at the Cardinal's Tower, if you look down at the basement with the fire salamanders, it almost looks like a scene out of Dodongo's Cavern. It's laughably bad at times like that.

Like I said, though, sometimes the game is kind of beautiful, like Majule. The quality in art design and graphics really oscillates.

 

[legacyzero]

Also, I JUST NOW realized that the #YOULIED hashtag is a parody of the YOU DIED message.

God I feel dumb now. :lol

Goddammit... lol

Op please tell me that was your intention, because that's too funny

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Boss fog PS3 Beta

Boss fog PS3 Retail

Maybe be hard to appreciate in stills, but the PS3 beta boss/door fog has the same "distortion"effects from the E3/TGS build.

 

[Lalalandia]

Well given how old the consoles are I imagine the GAP was implied.

No the gap was implied not to exist as they never actually stated what version they were running nor discussed differences beyond textures + resolution. This mindset reminds me of the Amiga screenshots I used to get on the boxes of PC games, it was BS then and it's BS now.

Don't let the fact that you like the game/developer blind you to what is a fundamentally misleading practice they've engaged in here, it's a simple bait & switch. If we are to hold EA/Ubisoft/Activision account for this kind of nonsense then we have to hold every developer to this standard. If you can't make Feature X work just tell us that, I sincerely doubt it would have led to many refusing to buy the game but to abuse fan trust like that is just shocking.

 

[Joqu]

I really want to see more comparison shots to extend this claim

We have conflicting reports but the consensus is that the Beta looked awesome but had framerate issues?

Yeah. Problem is that the current release has framerate issues too. It's not easy to compare with a beta that isn't running anymore.

 

[Gbraga]

Well, we are talking about the Dark Souls of downgrades here.

So, it's either

Dark Souls II PC |OT| The Dark Souls of Downgrades

or

Dark Souls II PC |OT| Lighting Returns

It's up to you, From :C

 

[Krusenstern]

So, it's either

Dark Souls II PC |OT| The Dark Souls of Downgrades

or

Dark Souls II PC |OT| Lighting Returns

It's up to you, From :C

Sounds like a plan.

 

[DrROBschiz]

No the gap was implied not to exist as they never actually stated what version they were running nor discussed differences beyond textures + resolution. This mindset reminds me of the Amiga screenshots I used to get on the boxes of PC games, it was BS then and it's BS now.

Don't let the fact that you like the game/developer blind you to what is a fundamentally misleading practice they've engaged in here, it's a simple bait & switch. If we are to hold EA/Ubisoft/Activision account for this kind of nonsense then we have to hold every developer to this standard. If you can't make Feature X work just tell us that, I sincerely doubt it would have led to many refusing to buy the game but to abuse fan trust like that is just shocking.

Pretty sure they announced some of the differences between the PC/Console versions leading up to release

 

[Lalalandia]

Pretty sure they announced some of the differences between the PC/Console versions leading up to release

If you can find those quotes it would help clear up a lot because in almost 130+ pages between this thread and the orig. 'downgradeaton' thread no one else has been able to (beyond the texture + resolution comments on the PC build).

 

[Dhuie]

Was any of this bought up in game review scores ?

Shouldn't reviewers and gaming site staff be asking at E3 and press junkets if what they"re seeing and what they're playing will be in the retail version.

Also a few of you have posted almost every page, How are you finding the time to play ?

 

[Wensih]

You're not making sense. Just because you think it's silly that the complainants are still able to enjoy the game (which is a perfectly fair capability any adult should possess) and don't feel like they're wasting their time here, it's morally okay to tell them their (reasonably defensible) efforts are worthless and what they ought to do with their own spare time? Also, what is with the absolutism here? One personally needs to attack all false ads if you disagree with one of them? Sure, this is a matter of principle, but you do know that people only have a limited amount of time to give to a hobby and that nobody can fix the world by themselves? The topic of this thread is Dark Souls II and not the well-documented photographic abuses of fast-food chains. What we are dealing with is one thing and not another. Other people are dealing with other things, which also, for your information, does actually lead to concrete results.

If you personally feel it's not worth your time (which is definitely also a reasonably defensible stance), then what are you doing here?

I'm not saying their efforts are worthless. I'm sure someone will finally come out and say 'games are constantly changing throughout development, and unfortunately some features had to be dropped in order for the game to release on time,' if you get a NAMCO guy to come out and make a statement on why old builds were used as promotional material the response most likely will be 'these were the most complete builds given to us for use.' It's not hard to imagine why they would use good footage to advertise their game. At the most I can see developers now putting up little font at the bottom of ads saying, 'images do not represent final product.' Why would they not tell you they dropped features half way through development? The same reason why all game developers never mention they drop previously announced features halfway through development: It looks bad on them.

I may have been a little absolutist, but it stands to reason if someone is attacking Dark Souls II, then they should also take offense to something like fast food doctored images whether they try to change them or not; however, when I posted my whopper advert people were saying false advertising from Burger King wasn't the same, possibly because they enjoy Burger King Whoppers. Admittedly, I don't care about whopper adverts; I'm not going to make a fuss about them if I enjoy a whopper, but at the same time I'm not going to make a fuss about Dark Souls II, spamming twitter with something that comes off a little strong (#YOULIED) to people who don't know about Dark Souls, when I'm thoroughly enjoying the game.

As for why I'm in this thread, you're right, this thread is obviously only for people who want to get swept up in the lynch mob that's forming around FROMs doorstep, I'm not sure why I am here. I'll see myself out.