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[Madao]

didn't they take out the ability to buy girl clothes for boys and viceversa in Pokemon X/Y too or was that another made-up rumor? anyone with the japanese version can shed light in this?

This is getting ridiculous. I'm about ready to start voting with my wallet. Bought the Wii U at launch and bought many Wii U games day one. Still have more I would like to buy but Nintendo can lose my support and money. Their little Wii U isn't doing good as is.

from their point of view, embracing this might lose them more customers than keeping their current stance.
they'll look at the least costly route and pick that. it's not anything new. if anything, we should be mad at how shitty society is and how they cause uproars over things that don't warrant such things. maybe in a few years when society changes, they'll be more open about this in a future game.

 

[Dragon]

Because Fox News will run a story: "Do Nintendo games encourage youngsters to have gay sex?"

Not doing something because of Fox News is pretty dumb.

 

[Holmes]

People who say "x company can't do one thing for the gays because people will whine so tough luck" have no empathetic bone in their body.

 

[Shinta]

From what I've seen of the game, can't you just make a 'female' assigned Mii but then create the Mii specifically with the name of a man and to look and act like a man etc?

Yes.

People who say "x company can't do one thing for the gays because people will whine so tough luck" have no empathetic bone in their body.

Well that's bullshit. And I didn't see anyone say "tough luck."

 

[Holmes]

Well that's bullshit. And I didn't see anyone say "tough luck."

Then why try to justify it? So what if some people whine? It shouldn't be used as an excuse to pardon Nintendo.

 

[patrickthehedgehog]

People who say "x company can't do one thing for the gays because people will whine so tough luck" have no empathetic bone in their body.

Yeah that's terrible imo.

I think most of us know that Nintendo isn't out to step on anyone's toes. I'm probably not going to get Tomodachi Life at this point. Not because I've decided to boycott it, but because there's simply less fun there for a person like me. I'm not taking it personally...yet.

Again, if we were totally silent every time a game didn't include LBGT types nothing would ever change. We'll have to fight for this just like everything else.

 

[maquiladora]

Not doing something because of Fox News is pretty dumb.

.

 

[Oersted]

Yes. It seems fairly straightforward to me that adding it in would be the right thing to do.

I understand that there are possible practicality issues with this, due to the way the game is set up and the way romances work. They apparently didn't think about this possibility when programming the game, and it may be too complex for a simple and easy fix. And if that were their reasoning for not making the change, I could kind of understand that. But this kind of PR non-answer is weak.

I agree that it is weak non-answer and I certainly agree that homosexual relationships should be featured as much as polygam relationships. Yes, not a joke and yes, our society isn't even remotly ready for that. Homosexual relationships would be a nice start.

 

[Neiteio]

specially with Tomodachi Life, where you don't really control what your Mii likes and whatnot

I'd expect millions of people being all "wtf I created my best friend in the game and my Mii wants to bone him I aint GAY NINTENDO"

This is a good point. For gay relationships to work in Tomodachi Life, you'd need to specify for each Mii whether he or she likes guys or girls. And while I'm all for acceptance and not alienating the gay population, you can imagine how many parents might feel if a game is constantly asking their kids to specify whether each character likes guys or girls...

 

[Dragon]

Yes.

That's not really the same thing at all.

This is a good point. For gay relationships to work in Tomodachi Life, you'd need to specify for each Mii whether he or she likes guys or girls. And while I'm all for acceptance and not alienating the gay population, you can imagine how many parents might feel if a game is constantly asking their kids to specify whether each character likes guys or girls...

Why should anyone do something to not piss off seemingly bigoted people? It's a really poor way to behave.

 

[Rubius]

So gay relationship are still possible!? It was never patched!?

Journalists never actually looked for a source before publishing the rumors.

 

[Jintor]

This is a good point. For gay relationships to work in Tomodachi Life, you'd need to specify for each Mii whether he or she likes guys or girls. And while I'm all for acceptance and not alienating the gay population, you can imagine how many parents might feel if a game is constantly asking their kids to specify whether each character likes guys or girls...

Default to heterosexuality and put an option somewhere if you want to change it I guess?

 

[thepotatoman]

“From our perspective it’s kind of tough because as a game development company, our primary focus is always looking at creating entertainment and fun and entertaining products,” Trinen explained. “And there’s a lot of decisions that can go into that process. What we try not to do is… well, it would be very easy to look at Animal Crossing and say, ‘well, what wasn’t included in an Animal Crossing, so what’s Nintendo saying about that?’ We’re not really saying anything about anything; we’re just constantly trying to create fun and entertaining experiences.”

This is dumb. You're clearly being exclusionary creating a game about relationships and not accounting for same sex relationships, and being exclusionary clearly is a political statement, rather they want it to be or not.

This is a good point. For gay relationships to work in Tomodachi Life, you'd need to specify for each Mii whether he or she likes guys or girls. And while I'm all for acceptance and not alienating the gay population, you can imagine how many parents might feel if a game is constantly asking their kids to specify whether each character likes guys or girls...

I think we're past the point where you have to cater toward bigots in order to make games.

 

[Shinta]

Then why try to justify it? So what if some people whine? It shouldn't be used as an excuse to pardon Nintendo.

You can refer to my post here, or Brainfreeze's informative post here.

Why pardon Nintendo? Because I don't think they have any malicious intent whatsoever. I think they're a business that caters to kids, and prioritizes gameplay above any kind of narrative, or social commentary, which they make almost no attempt to partake in.

Am I really a sociopath lacking empathy because of that post? That's some bullshit.

 

[Tomohawk]

All nintendo has to do is say why there are no same sex relationships in the game and what they will do in future titles and why. I don't get how just giving a non answer is the right response when it doesn't address the situation. This is the 2014, the sims had gay relationships since forever.

 

[Toadette]

2014 the hole gay thing is a thing a thing

 

[Spiffy_1st]

Still have more I would like to buy but Nintendo can lose my support and money. Their little Wii U isn't doing good as is.

Why don't you base your support on the fact that they make fun and interesting games that you enjoy, instead of something completely unrelated?

Nintendo isn't a political party.

 

[Dragon]

Why don't you base your support on the fact that they make fun and interesting games that you enjoy, instead of something completely unrelated?

Nintendo isn't a political party.

Why don't you let him / her make their own decisions about where they spend their money?

 

[Jintor]

You can refer to my post here, or Brainfreeze's informative post here.

Why pardon Nintendo? Because I don't think they have any malicious intent whatsoever. I think they're a business that caters to kids, and prioritizes gameplay above any kind of narrative, or social commentary, which they make almost no attempt to partake in.

Am I really a sociopath lacking empathy because of that post? That's some bullshit.

I don't know. If they were wrecking the environment for profit, and the justification was 'well it's not that they hate the environment, they're just in a business that prioritises results above any kind of environmental problems', then I might be able to convincingly argue that you perhaps don't care about the environment

 

[Tomohawk]

You can refer to my post here, or Brainfreeze's informative post here.

Why pardon Nintendo? Because I don't think they have any malicious intent whatsoever. I think they're a business that caters to kids, and prioritizes gameplay above any kind of narrative, or social commentary, which they make almost no attempt to partake in.

Am I really a sociopath lacking empathy because of that post? That's some bullshit.

Having a same sex option isn't social commentary and catering to kids doesn't have jack to do with anything.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Why is it good that Nintendo gave a non answer? I think it comes off as very impersonal and cold.

Has EA never had to face this type of question with the Sims? I really doubt they'd be getting praise for a non answer, frankly.

Because somebody is gonna end up whining either way. Plus it will generate unnecessary headlines.. Imagine if nintendo just flat out said no right here. Or if they said yes and mainstream catches on..I dont think they want that.

 

[Shinta]

I don't know. If they were wrecking the environment for profit, and the justification was 'well it's not that they hate the environment, they're just in a business that prioritises results above any kind of environmental problems', then I might be able to convincingly argue that you perhaps don't care about the environment

Businesses don't care about the environment. They follow regulations and laws that outline what they have to do. That's not really a great example.

catering to kids doesn't have jack to do with anything.

Except their entire business and brand image.

 

[Tomohawk]

Businesses don't care about the environment. They follow regulations and laws that outline what they have to do. That's not really a great example.



Except their entire business and brand image.

Are you saying same sex relationships in games are harmful to kids?

 

[Shinta]

Are you saying same sex relationships in games are harmful to kids?

No? Read my post on page 1. Seriously, give it a shot.

 

[Dragon]

Except their entire business and brand image.

I think you're projecting your own beliefs here bud. Their brand image of being tolerant of all kinds of different people is tarnished by this kind of stubbornness.

Because somebody is gonna end up whining either way. Plus it will generate unnecessary headlines.. Imagine if nintendo just flat out said no right here. Or if they said yes and mainstream catches on..I dont think they want that.

What is the right thing and what's the wrong thing? Basing your decisions on the bigots is why this is an issue in the first place.

 

[ZealousD]

They're a video game company. Its not their place to make statements on homosexual companies if they don't feel like they ought to.
I get why people are upset over this but pick your battles.

Except by Tomodachi Life being inherently exclusionary, they are already making a sort of statement. The game was deliberately programmed in such a way that there is a gender check between Miis to determine whether they can be romantically compatible or not. So there was a deliberate choice to be exclusionary to homosexual relationships there.

 

[Neiteio]

Hey, out of curiosity, have any Disney animated films had gay characters or gay relationships? Because Nintendo is essentially the Disney of videogames (aside from the literal Disney Interactive, lol), and they are in a similar position where their brand's goal is to be as inoffensive to families as possible... which basically means a rather conservative approach to "social norms."

Now I'm wondering if there is anything similar to the "Miiquality" movement where Disney films, Pixar, etc., are concerned. I remember it was a big deal when "The Princess and the Frog" featured a black princess.

 

[Karkador]

Except their entire business and brand image.

Disney has opened the gay pandora's box and done just fine (if not better)

What a lot of people seem to be thinking is, either Nintendo should open their doors to LGBT people and remain socially relevant (because their platform since forever has been about being socially relevant), or they can die off like all the other dinosaurs.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

Fake drama is so lame. They're right to dodge it.

The #Miiquality media I've seen has been drama-free. They couldn't go about asking Nintendo to comment/consider in a nicer way.

I do think they're in a particularly tough spot, since so much of their brand strength relies on parents perceiving them to be the safe choice for kids.

We can talk about how awful it is that people view homosexuality as something that we shouldn't show to kids, but the fact is, but I'd wager that a lot of people still feel that way. I think it would be neat if Nintendo moved first on that, but I don't think anyone should expect them to. If the society itself still hasn't worked that one out, I think it's a little bit unlikely to expect a business to jump in that first when they are trying to sell products.

And part of what Nintendo says is kind of true. They're an odd choice to single out for this, because they're so harmless and fun-natured in what they decide to focus on. Half their games don't even have stories really, just gameplay. Nintendo is kind of the last company interested in making social commentary. They barely even have narratives in their games half the time. They want to make toys.

While imperfect, having the ability to customize characters as much as they say is at least something.

Homosexual relationships aren't social commentary. They are a part of society as it is now. If anything not including homosexual relationships is an oversight in any game portraying relationships.

 

[Blackthorn]

You can refer to my post here, or Brainfreeze's informative post here.

Why pardon Nintendo? Because I don't think they have any malicious intent whatsoever. I think they're a business that caters to kids, and prioritizes gameplay above any kind of narrative, or social commentary, which they make almost no attempt to partake in.

Am I really a sociopath lacking empathy because of that post? That's some bullshit.

If you're going to use the gameplay argument, I would say the more a lifestyle sim represents lifestyles, the better it is at fulfilling its gameplay objectives.

Also, bring up homosexuality around children who haven't yet been conditioned into thinking it's repulsive. They don't give a shit.

 

[Y2Kev]

Because somebody is gonna end up whining either way. Plus it will generate unnecessary headlines.. Imagine if nintendo just flat out said no right here. Or if they said yes and mainstream catches on..I dont think they want that.

This is disgusting to me though.

I don't care that "somebody is gonna whine either way." There is a right and wrong here and I don't give a damn if the wrong whines when they're shown the truth. They're on the wrong side of this issue; it's supposed to taste like a shit taco.

Sometimes doing the right thing takes guts.

 

[Faustek]

You all should go into this thread

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=808594&page=1

Our own Tyeforce has taken it upon himself and created a movement. Not to burn Nintendo or anything but the young man has taken a very reasonable approach and I know that I for one would be very grateful if just a few of you could lend a hand, even if that just means you are number 7373 random person that aids in the #Miiquality.

 

[Shinta]

I think you're projecting your own beliefs here bud. Their brand image of being tolerant of all kinds of different people is tarnished by this kind of stubbornness.

Instead of telling me what I think, why not just listen to what I said? I think I know what I think better than you do. I explained pretty clearly what I think about it on the last page.

First, someone says I have no empathy. Then someone says I'm a bigot. Both times, it's been complete bullshit.

If you guys don't even want to have a conversation about this without insulting people, then I'll just stop talking about it.

If you're going to use the gameplay argument, I would say the more a lifestyle sim represents lifestyles, the better it is at fulfilling its gameplay objectives.

Also, bring up homosexuality around children who haven't yet been conditioned into thinking it's repulsive. They don't give a shit.

They said it's not a lifestyle sim repeatedly in the article.

Kids don't care, and I agree, it's not harmful. I'm talking about parents, who buy games and buy into Nintendo's brand.

 

[justchris]

Why should anyone do something to not piss off seemingly bigoted people? It's a really poor way to behave.

Not all people who don't want a game asking their kids whether they like boys or girls are bigots. Some of them just don't want a game exposing their kids to a particular idea until they're ready to present it themselves.

On a separate note, I think a lot of people forget that Nintendo is a Japanese company, and that Japanese acceptance of homosexual relationships hasn't gotten quite as far as it has in the US and Europe. That definitely has an influence on their decisions in this regard.

All nintendo has to do is say why there are no same sex relationships in the game and what they will do in future titles and why. I don't get how just giving a non answer is the right response when it doesn't address the situation. This is the 2014, the sims had gay relationships since forever.

Because you're asking Bill Trinen rather than the people who developed the game? What Bill was saying is that the developers were more concerned with gameplay than with relationship politics, and it's possible it never even occurred to them that it would matter. Very likely, they didn't even think about it when they were localizing it either, chances are it never came up. You're getting a non-answer, because it's too late for Tomodatchi Life, that's a lost cause. Nintendo probably hasn't decided what they're going to do with future titles yet, so you're not going to know what they decide until there's actually a decision.

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

With their poor Wii U sales and E3 on the horizon, wouldn't now be the perfect time for Nintendo to just outright say they support the LGBT community? If there was ever a time to roll the dice and see where things land, now would be it in my mind.

But of course I don't work PR for publicly traded multi-billion dollar global corporations either, so IDK.

 

[Tomohawk]

No? Read my post on page 1. Seriously, give it a shot.

There's plenty of people who are racist, does that mean it would be alright for nintendo only allowed a white option in all their games. There's been plenty of games with gay options and characters, even ones that have a large child base.

 

[Dragon]

Instead of telling me what I think, why not just listen to what I said? I think I know what I think better than you do. I explained pretty clearly what I think about it on the last page.

First, someone says I have no empathy. Then someone say I'm a bigot. Both times, it's been complete bullshit.

If you guys want don't even want to have a conversation about this without insulting people, then I'll just stop talking about it.

You're probably better off doing that. It seems you take it personally when people point out your justification is poor. I have trouble with that as well. But let's be real, saying it hurts their brand to support gay marriage in a life Sim is basically denying that they exist. Which is neither fun nor smart IMO.

 

[Oersted]

A lot of people in this thread are saying that this response is reasonable because Nintendo is a business, and they need to protect their shareholders rather than concerning themselves with their LGBT fans.

This is implicitly an argument for boycotting Nintendo and/or the game.

Probably the reason why I have asked, is that even in this rightful struggle for equality, we always understand relationships as bound between two, never more people. It is worrisome. But enough of that, sorry.

 

[thepotatoman]

Hey, out of curiosity, have any Disney animated films had gay characters or gay relationships? Because Nintendo is essentially the Disney of videogames (aside from the literal Disney Interactive, lol), and they are in a similar position where their brand's goal is to be as inoffensive to families as possible... which basically means a rather conservative approach to "social norms."

Now I'm wondering if there is anything similar to the "Miiquality" movement where Disney films, Pixar, etc., are concerned. I remember it was a big deal when "The Princess and the Frog" featured a black princess.

A quick google search says that Good Luck Charlie on the Disney Channel features a same sex couple consisting of two mothers, and parents haven't burned down Disney's headquarters yet.

And I think there's more imperative for Nintendo to include same sex couples than disney, because passive media is always about other people, where Tomodachi life is supposed to be about the player, and that doesn't work if it requires the player to be straight.

 

[Kangi]

Hey, out of curiosity, have any Disney animated films had gay characters or gay relationships? Because Nintendo is essentially the Disney of videogames (aside from the literal Disney Interactive, lol), and they are in a similar position where their brand's goal is to be as inoffensive to families as possible... which basically means a rather conservative approach to "social norms."

Now I'm wondering if there is anything similar to the "Miiquality" movement where Disney films, Pixar, etc., are concerned. I remember it was a big deal when "The Princess and the Frog" featured a black princess.

Disney animated films haven't had any openly gay characters, no. The only children's animated film to do that so far is ParaNorman, I believe. Now, Disney Channel has had a gay couple in the form of two mothers in an episode of Good Luck Charlie, but nothing else that I know of. That's all I can think of from them other than a one-off joke from the Princess Diaries or something.

 

[Faustek]

With their poor Wii U sales and E3 on the horizon, wouldn't now be the perfect time for Nintendo to just outright say they support the LGBT community? If there was ever a time to roll the dice and see where things land, now would be it in my mind.

But of course I don't work PR for publicly traded multi-billion dollar global corporations either, so IDK.

That I don't get. Why they haven't. It worked for EA. And I actually respect that part of EA. I'm pretty sure they would score a lot of free pr and more goodwill than hate from the bigoted people.

PS. Not sure on the usage of bigot. Is it to strong? Use less tolerant? Or just call it for what it is?

 

[MvmntInGrn]

There's plenty of people who are racist, does that mean it would be alright for nintendo only allowed a white option in all their games. There's been plenty of games with gay options and characters, even ones that have a large child base.

Exactly. Homosexual characters/relationships are not new to games. Nintendo including them would not have been a step forward as much as not including them is a step back.

 

[Nothing1016]

Hey, out of curiosity, have any Disney animated films had gay characters or gay relationships? Because Nintendo is essentially the Disney of videogames (aside from the literal Disney Interactive, lol), and they are in a similar position where their brand's goal is to be as inoffensive to families as possible... which basically means a rather conservative approach to "social norms."

Now I'm wondering if there is anything similar to the "Miiquality" movement where Disney films, Pixar, etc., are concerned. I remember it was a big deal when "The Princess and the Frog" featured a black princess.

No they do not. Toy Story 3 and even Princess and the Frog both had effeminate male characters that were ridiculed. Gary Marsh, creative officer of Disney Channel, has said himself that its up to viewers to decide whether characters are gay, voiding himself of any responsibility if you wanna look at it that way.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I think you're projecting your own beliefs here bud. Their brand image of being tolerant of all kinds of different people is tarnished by this kind of stubbornness.



What is the right thing and what's the wrong thing? Basing your decisions on the bigots is why this is an issue in the first place.

Idk whats the right or wrong thing. Nobody knows because there was a non answer.

This is disgusting to me though.

I don't care that "somebody is gonna whine either way." There is a right and wrong here and I don't give a damn if the wrong whines when they're shown the truth. They're on the wrong side of this issue; it's supposed to taste like a shit taco.

Sometimes doing the right thing takes guts.

Nintendo probably cares though. Theres 2 sides and everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Shinta]

But let's be real, saying it hurts their brand to support gay marriage in a life Sim is basically denying that they exist. Which is neither fun nor smart IMO.

1) It's not a life sim. If you read the actual linked article, they literally say that.

"Trinen said that, unfortunately, Tomodachi Life isn’t designed to be a perfect simulation and, therefore, the line between entertainment and real-life becomes a challenge for Nintendo."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/nintendo-on-gay-marriage-and-tomodachi-life

2) I don't think they are denying they exist. That was the whole point of Trinnen's statement. They aren't trying to make social commentary. They are just trying to make a game. If a game is made entirely about homosexual relationships, I wouldn't say that it's denying that heterosexuals exist. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[thepotatoman]

That I don't get. Why they haven't. It worked for EA. And I actually respect that part of EA. I'm pretty sure they would score a lot of free pr and more goodwill than hate from the bigoted people.

PS. Not sure on the usage of bigot. Is it to strong? Use less tolerant? Or just call it for what it is?

Call it for what it is. Nintendo wanting to cater to bigots instead of LGBT people.

 

[Holmes]

When I marry my husband, neither of us will be wearing a dress so I don't think it's a reasonable compromise for one of us to be set as female and wear a dress were we to have a virtual wedding in a Nintendo game. Actually it is insulting.

 

[Neiteio]

Call it for what it is. Nintendo wanting to cater to bigots instead of LGBT people.

I really think they're just concerned about making games.

 

[jaxpunk]

Call it for what it is. Nintendo wanting to cater to bigots instead of LGBT people.

Haha this thread rules.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Call it for what it is. Nintendo wanting to cater to bigots instead of LGBT people.

If this is truly what people believe then.. I guess i can understand how someone can be mad but i dont bvelieve this is the case