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[ZombiePlatypus]

I can`t understand the commotion about this and I am a very liberal person and pro-GM.
This game is for kids first and foremost, 6 year olds don't even have a real sexual orientation.
To construct a viewpoint were Nintendo is seen as homophobic or narrowminded in this regard is just ridiculous.
I completely get Trinen's answer, this should just be a fun game and not a political statement, but it seems in these days you are already stamped as "against" if you are not propagating it.

Even if they don't understand it, a lot of kids innately know what they're attracted to. Even if they don't know what gay or straight means. I know I was, and having a cartoon or a videogame show that some boys do like boys and it's ok, would have made a world of difference.

I agree that it doesn't need to be a political thing though. Why can't it just be the game giving more players options? The idea that it inherently becomes a political hot-button issue at the mere thought of doing something that should really be a non-issue to begin with, makes something like this all the more needed.

 

[BGBW]

Nintendo should enter the 21st century and just fix it.

Is it an easy fix? The first game was so oddly coded they couldn't even localise it.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Is it an easy fix? The first game was so oddly coded they couldn't even localise it.

If it's really a problem, I'd feel more than satisfied as a Nintendo fan if they vow to include the feature in future sequels.

Spoiler

Or if they just make 3DS's region-free.

 

[fernoca]

As noted earlier, and in the other (Miiquality) thread; is something I should expect to be acknowledged/"fixed" in the sequel.

For this one is too late as it seems is not something that can just be "quickly patched" (unless they decide to follow the same quicky/weird concept of the game). Been gay is not a switch that you turn on and off , and so it shouldn't be treated that way in games. Yeah, I have fun with Fable and Mass Effect romancing guys and stuff; but as easy as it is in the games to "be gay", just a few flirts and gifts away "you're straight". It should be something that is part of the character from the beginning of the game, not something that you can change at will at any time; much less work you ass to do so.

In the end, the media should bring this to Reggie and Iwata more than anyone else; especially with E3 this close.

Glad that word is getting out.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

As noted earlier, and in the other (Miiquality) thread; is something I should expect to be acknowledged/"fixed" in the sequel.

For this one is too late as it seems is not something that can just be "quickly patched" (unless they decide to follow the same quicky/weird concept of the game). Been gay is not a switch that you turn on and off , and so it shouldn't be treated that way in games. Yeah, I have fun with Fable and Mass Effect romancing guys and stuff; but as easy as it is in the games to "be gay", just a few flirts and gifts away "you're straight". It should be something that is part of the character from the beginning of the game, not something that you can change at will at any time; much less work you ass to do so.

In the end, the media should bring this to Reggie and Iwata more than anyone else; especially with E3 this close.

Glad that word is getting out.

Props to IGN for bringing it up, but I'm not holding my breath at the prospect of the general gaming-press actually asking a hardball question to a gaming company.

 

[JordanN]

In the end, the media should bring this to Reggie and Iwata more than anyone else; especially with E3 this close.

Glad that word is getting out.

I'm scared to think what Iwata's stance on gay marriage is. It could either be the greatest thing to happen or a "some men just want to watch the world burn" moment.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I can`t understand the commotion about this and I am a very liberal person and pro-GM.
This game is for kids first and foremost, 6 year olds don't even have a real sexual orientation.

Even under your incorrect view, wherein children have no innate orientation, why exactly does that imply that only heteronormative depictions of relationships should be included.

Does it make the game more fun?

Perhaps you could elaborate, because there are implications to your statements that I don't know if you intended to make.

 

[KHlover]

As noted earlier, and in the other (Miiquality) thread; is something I should expect to be acknowledged/"fixed" in the sequel.

For this one is too late as it seems is not something that can just be "quickly patched" (unless they decide to follow the same quicky/weird concept of the game). Been gay is not a switch that you turn on and off , and so it shouldn't be treated that way in games. Yeah, I have fun with Fable and Mass Effect romancing guys and stuff; but as easy as it is in the games to "be gay", just a few flirts and gifts away "you're straight". It should be something that is part of the character from the beginning of the game, not something that you can change at will at any time; much less work you ass to do so.

In the end, the media should bring this to Reggie and Iwata more than anyone else; especially with E3 this close.

Glad that word is getting out.

You have direct control over all decisions of your character in ME though. And Shepard is just that - a character.

Miis are an avatar of whoever made them and supposed to represent them in Tomodachi Life, so it'd make sense that there are some Miis you would want to be definitely straight. And since you can't directly control your Mii's actions some way to ensure that particular Mii is straight.

And the easiest way to implement that would probably be by adding a "sexual preference" slider, which would even enable the game to differentiate multiple variants of bicuriousity.

But of course I'm not gay, so I have no idea how choosing the sexual orientation of your Miis via slider would feel for you.

 

[Earthpainting]

See, but the game features heterosexual marriage (apparently), and people have managed not to be shocked at the blinding display of sexuality there. It is pretty telling that people will react to the addition of homosexual relationships as if they were inherently politicizing and sexual, while the presence of a "normal" couple gets zero reaction whatsoever except when it is in contrast to the former. Having gay people in your video game doesn't make it a sex simulator, nor inappropriate or incomprehensible for children.

It's indeed a little saddening that there's this immediate association between homosexuality and the perverse amongst many. The ability to depict innocent and sweet same-sex couples

Spoiler

(such as in a video game like this ' '<)

would go a long way to show that being gay is more than just the naughty stuff.

Well, you see, the gay Mii marriage costs extra time, money, and resources that would have normally gone into developing the regular straight normal Mii marriage. And where would it end? They would have to create new goat Miis for me to then rhetorically ask to marry in the game, if we can even expect our games to work after opening the door to Siin.

I'm going to be polite about this, and just point out that comparing a bond between two consenting human beings, and a person and an animal is kind of insulting.

 

[scoobidoo112]

2014 and we're still having this discussion

I think we should respect everyone for who they are,
fat, thin, big, tall, white, black, gay, bi, straight, who cares...

Nintendo should just grow some balls and stand up for
its customers already, it's not like homosexuality would
stand out as weird in Japan...

 

[Karkador]

Even under your incorrect view, wherein children have no innate orientation, why exactly does that imply that only heteronormative depictions of relationships should be included.

Does it make the game more fun?

Well, you see, the gay Mii marriage costs extra time, money, and resources that would have normally gone into developing the regular straight normal Mii marriage. And where would it end? They would have to create new goat Miis for me to then rhetorically ask to marry in the game, if we can even expect our games to work after opening the door to Siin.

Nintendo should just grow some balls and stand up for
its customers already, it's not like homosexuality would
stand out as weird in Japan...

I think sticking up for this would even be a good PR move for Nintendo. I think it would reaffirm their place in our culture, which is some ground they seem to be losing.

I'm going to be polite about this, and just point out that comparing a bond between two consenting human beings, and a person and an animal is kind of insulting.

I'm aware. It was sarcasm, because it seems the only thing I can do about this is try to laugh.

 

[scoobidoo112]

Well, you see, the gay Mii marriage costs extra time, money, and resources that would have normally gone into developing the regular straight normal Mii marriage. And where would it end? They would have to create new goat Miis for me to then rhetorically ask to marry in the game, if we can even expect our games to work after opening the door to Siin.

Obligatory:

 

[Taker666]

Thinking about it..it's pretty bizarre that they allow any romantic relationships (gay or straight).

IF you have no control over who falls in love in the game and you fill it with Mii's of your family.....then a brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son could get married in the game and have a baby. It's an incest simulator....I think I may just stick to celebrity Mii's.

 

[disap.ed]

Even under your incorrect view, wherein children have no innate orientation, why exactly does that imply that only heteronormative depictions of relationships should be included.

Does it make the game more fun?

Perhaps you could elaborate, because there are implications to your statements that I don't know if you intended to make.

Not this again... Yes, they do. Turns out sexual orientation is something you're born with. Whodathunk?

Okay, maybe I worded this wrong. What I meant is that they don't have a deeper understanding of sexual orientation and definitely don't care about it in a videogame.

I am not implying anything and it doesn't make a game more or less fun for me personally if there are only hetero or also gay couples in it.

Let me get this straight again: I don't have a problem with gay relationships in any game, it shouldn't even be a discussion if it is "right" or "wrong" to put it in, I am glad that it is more and more accepted in our society to love whoever we want, but I just can't blame Nintendo for not putting it in because they probably didn't do it because they are on a hidden anti-gay agenda but just because they didn't find it important for the game. Maybe this importance will rise with a successor and everybody will be happy.

 

[watershed]

Thinking about it..it's pretty bizarre that they allow any romantic relationships (gay or straight).

IF you have no control over who falls in love in the game and you fill it with Mii's of your family.....then a brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son could get married in the game and have a baby. It's an incest simulator....I think I may just stick to celebrity Mii's.

You can predefined relations like family so they will never be paired together.

 

[Taker666]

You can predefined relations like family so they will never be paired together.

Well that's one bit of controversy curtailed.

 

[Kangi]

Okay, maybe I worded this wrong. What I meant is that they don't have a deeper understanding of sexual orientation and definitely don't care about it in a videogame.

Really? Because I can speak from personal experience that a gay kid being excluded and treated as abnormal in games and other media can be outright damaging, not just something they'd "care about".

When you were a child, did you ever experience everything putting barriers around you and saying, "No, you can't kiss the girl, you can only kiss other boys!"? I'm going to go ahead and assume you never had to deal with that. But imagine that were the case; imagine what that would do to your at-the-time impressionable mind. Now flip it around. That's what a lot of gay kids have to deal with. That's what this game and others of its nature can do to you.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Really? Because I can speak from personal experience that a gay kid being excluded and treated as abnormal in games and other media can be outright damaging, not just something they'd "care about".

When you were a child, did you ever experience everything putting barriers around you and saying, "No, you can't kiss the girl, you can only kiss other boys!"? I'm going to go ahead and assume you never had to deal with that. But imagine that were the case; imagine what that would do to your at-the-time impressionable mind. Now flip it around. That's what a lot of gay kids have to deal with. That's what this game and others of its nature can do to you.

Exactly this. Dismissing the issue with a "who cares, it's just fun for kids" argument has got to be the most stupendously merit-less stance in this situation. Just borderline brazen.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Okay, maybe I worded this wrong. What I meant is that they don't have a deeper understanding of sexual orientation and definitely don't care about it in a videogame.

I am not implying anything and it doesn't make a game more or less fun for me personally if there are only hetero or also gay couples in it.

Let me get this straight again: I don't have a problem with gay relationships in any game, it shouldn't even be a discussion if it is "right" or "wrong" to put it in, I am glad that it is more and more accepted in our society to love whoever we want, but I just can't blame Nintendo for not putting it in because they probably didn't do it because they are on a hidden anti-gay agenda but just because they didn't find it important for the game. Maybe this importance will rise with a successor and everybody will be happy.

Majority of them doesn't care you're correct. This is because of heteronormativity, it's the normal thing to be straight.

But what about those boys or girls who slowly come to realize they're different than others? Do you realize how painful that experience must be? I knew when I was a kid that I liked the opposite sex. I didn't think about it because it was completely normal - I didn't even think that it was normal, it just simply was. I can only imagine how it would've been if I had realized that I'm not like everyone else - "there must be something wrong with me".

Because of this I'd say it's very important that things like this are brought into the awareness of children, no matter their sexual orientation. Children don't have the resources to look up information themselves that it's completely normal to like people of the same sex.

 

[Hermii]

My opinion is that it should have been in the game from the start, but quickly patching in the feature after the game is completed I dont know if that is something that can be done easily.

 

[disap.ed]

Really? Because I can speak from personal experience that a gay kid being excluded and treated as abnormal in games and other media can be outright damaging, not just something they'd "care about".

I have a daughter in this age and while she asked me if boys can love boys (and girls girls) she never spent a thought about it playing a videogame. Maybe she just plays the wrong videogames then. Are you also arguing that in Disney movies there are prince and princess and not two princes in love?

Majority of them doesn't care you're correct. This is because of heteronormativity, it's the normal thing to be straight.

But what about those boys or girls who slowly come to realize they're different than others? Do you realize how painful that experience must be? I knew when I was a kid that I liked the opposite sex. I didn't think about it because it was completely normal - I didn't even think that it was normal, it just simply was. I can only imagine how it would've been if I had realized that I'm not like everyone else - "there must be something wrong with me".

Because of this I'd say it's very important that things like this are brought into the awareness of children, no matter their sexual orientation. Children don't have the resources to look up information themselves that it's completely normal to like people of the same sex.

I absolutely get this, but I would have never blamed video games for only putting "normal" relationships in because of my personal preferences.

Again, I am glad that these things finally become more commonly aware and as I already stated I appreciate if this finds it's way also into videogames.

 

[Kangi]

I have a daughter in this age and while she asked me if boys can love boys (and girls girls) she never spent a thought about it playing a videogame. Maybe she just plays the wrong videogames then. Are you also arguing that in Disney movies there are prince and princess and not two princes in love?

Of course it didn't occur to her when playing games like this if she's straight herself. Again - and this is the part I keep trying to get through your skull - think about this from the perspective of a gay kid who's being excluded and treated as abnormal by these games.

I absolutely get this, but I would have never blamed video games for only putting "normal" relationships in because of my personal preferences.

If you're actually acting like this is about "personal preferences", you are very clearly not getting this, or are treating this without the slightest hint of empathy.

 

[Higgins113]

And Kanji is definitely gay, I don't know how it's even possible to see it otherwise.

No offense, but did you even play the game? Kanji is definitely not gay, I don't know how it's even possible to see it otherwise

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

You mean, Homodachi Life.

 

[disap.ed]

Of course it didn't occur to her when playing games like this if she's straight herself. Again - and this is the part I keep trying to get through your skull - think about this from the perspective of a gay kid who's being excluded and treated as abnormal by these games.

But this is a problem with every minority group, they aren't doing this on purpose of saying that you are abnormal.

If you're actually acting like this is about "personal preferences", you are very clearly not getting this, or are treating this without the slightest hint of empathy.

I don't know if it is just the language barrier between us or you just don't want to get me, but I have a clear feeling you are misunderstanding what is my intention to say

 

[Jintor]

But this is a problem with every minority group, they aren't doing this on purpose of saying that you are abnormal.

Maybe there's no malice in it, but that doesn't really excuse it, y'know...

 

[Kangi]

But this is a problem with every minority group, they aren't doing this on purpose of saying that you are abnormal.

But you've said point blank that kids don't care about any of this so-called "political" stuff. Those affected by it clearly do, and therefore it is a problem regardless of how much you write it off.

I don't know if it is just the language barrier between us or you just don't want to get me, but I have a clear feeling you are misunderstanding what is my intention to say

Honestly? I dearly hope so. Because what I've seen so far from you is the exact kind of attitude that contributes to the repressive enviroment that I and many others have gone through: "Doesn't affect me, who cares?"

 

[disap.ed]

Honestly? I dearly hope so. Because what I've seen so far from you is the exact kind of attitude that contributes to the repressive enviroment that I and many others have gone through: "Doesn't affect me, who cares?"

You can take my word at it, this is a wrong picture of me. I am member of a liberal party that most vocally advocates complete equality of gay marriage in our country (which unfortunately still isn't a reality in a lot of countries even in Europe).

 

[Kangi]

You can take my word at it, this is a wrong picture of me. I am member of a liberal party that most vocally advocates complete equality of gay marriage in our country (which unfortunately still isn't a reality in a lot of countries even in Europe).

Then I'm not quite understanding why you're so dismissive of something like this that affects children. Equality means making everyone feel equal; it is a good thing to help kids of a minority feel equal, even in something that seems as petty as a game.

 

[disap.ed]

Then I'm not quite understanding why you're so dismissive of something like this that affects children. Equality means making everyone feel equal; it is a good thing to help kids of a minority feel equal, even in something that seems as petty as a game.

I apologize that I was not aware of such effects caused by something (as you put it) "petty as a game".
Learning every day. Thx for widening my horizon (absolutely no cynism in this post, just to be clear).

 

[NEO0MJ]

Wow, this thread is a landmine.

 

[Monocle]

Not all people who don't want a game asking their kids whether they like boys or girls are bigots. Some of them just don't want a game exposing their kids to a particular idea until they're ready to present it themselves.

Let me outline the delicate and emotionally trying process of teaching a child about same sex relationships.

Child: "Mommy, why did those two girls kiss in my game? Isn't that just for boys and girls?
Mom: "Well honey, sometimes girls love girls, the same way mommy loves daddy."
Child: "Does that mean I can like girls instead of boys?"
Mom: "People find out who they like as they grow up. When you get bigger, you'll find someone special too."


Personally I don't think games should expose children to veganism. People's dietary preferences are their own business. No need to shove them in everyone's face by acknowledging that they exist.

 

[Red Mage]

People who are saying Nintendo is catering to the bigots are missing the big picture here. Nintendo has always been a very Japanese company, and in Japan homosexuality is not nearly as tolerated as video games, anime, and manga have probably lead some of you to believe. Homosexuals have no real legal protection in Japan, much less than they do in the West. I'm not saying this to excuse Nintendo, but to explain that there's a huge disconnect between Western and Japanese views of 'tolerance.'

 

[Marcel]

Wow, this thread is a landmine.

If you are tolerant and willing to understand that this is important issue to a growing segment of the population who play games, you probably have nothing to worry about.

People who are saying Nintendo is catering to the bigots are missing the big picture here. Nintendo has always been a very Japanese company, and in Japan homosexuality is not nearly as tolerated as video games, anime, and manga have probably lead some of you to believe. Homosexuals have no real legal protection in Japan, much less than they do in the West. I'm not saying this to excuse Nintendo, but to explain that there's a huge disconnect between Western and Japanese views of 'tolerance.'

It speaks to a bigger problem of Nintendo being either behind the times or only brought kicking and screaming to the modern day by market forces. Their stance on conflict minerals and human rights is fairly disgusting by present-day standards.

 

[badgerfan20945]

People who are saying Nintendo is catering to the bigots are missing the big picture here. Nintendo has always been a very Japanese company, and in Japan homosexuality is not nearly as tolerated as video games, anime, and manga have probably lead some of you to believe. Homosexuals have no real legal protection in Japan, much less than they do in the West. I'm not saying this to excuse Nintendo, but to explain that there's a huge disconnect between Western and Japanese views of 'tolerance.'

I don't know, based on some of the stuff I watch from Japan I would think they would be more tolerant of this kind of stuff then in other countries.

 

[Red Mage]

It speaks to a bigger problem of Nintendo being either behind the times or only brought kicking and screaming to the modern day by market forces. Their stance on conflict minerals and human rights is fairly disgusting by present-day standards.

That's my point, the country as a whole isn't anywhere near Western standards on homosexual rights. It isn't just Nintendo that has a problem, but the country in general.

 

[Marcel]

I don't know, based on some of the stuff I watch from Japan I would think they would be more tolerant of this kind of stuff then in other countries.

There's always a divide between entertainment and beliefs held by segments of society. Whether you think it's big or small, it exists. Just because anime or other forms of Japanese media address issues like homosexuality or transgenderism doesn't mean the society at large wants to deal with them.

 

[Tomohawk]

The intend to buy survey is on club nintendo, so anyone who wants to express their opinion to nintendo could do so there. I put my opinions in the why are you interested text box since it was the only one.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That's my point, the country as a whole isn't anywhere near Western standards on homosexual rights. It isn't just Nintendo that has a problem, but the country in general.

It may be true that in terms of legislation Japan doesn't have as much in place as some Western countries, but homosexuality itself isn't seen as as much of an issue.

 

[badgerfan20945]

There's always a divide between entertainment and beliefs held by segments of society. Whether you think it's big or small, it exists. Just because anime or other forms of Japanese media address issues like homosexuality or transgenderism doesn't mean the society at large wants to deal with them.

Yeah I guess your right. I forgot that most of Nintendo is still run by the older generation (more traditional) of Japanese.

 

[Marcel]

It may be true that in terms of legislation Japan doesn't have as much in place as some Western countries, but homosexuality itself isn't seen as as much of an issue.

Inaction, a shrug of the shoulders or tacit acceptance is not exactly something to applaud. Japan doesn't even have sexual orientation included in their civil rights code. They've made some progress to be sure but anti-discrimination laws are still a big mess over there.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Well, you see, the gay Mii marriage costs extra time, money, and resources that would have normally gone into developing the regular straight normal Mii marriage. And where would it end? They would have to create new goat Miis for me to then rhetorically ask to marry in the game, if we can even expect our games to work after opening the door to Siin.

I'd like to think there's a bigger call for equal rights with homosexuality than bestiality.

But you're right, if we want this to be a true life sim that encompasses everything someone could be, then they'd have to put in quite a bit of time updating things. Asexuality, polygamy, necrophilia, pedophilia, incest, objectophilia, or any other instance of paraphilia you can think of regardless of legality.

At that point, it's probably better to remove preferences and marriage options altogether.

 

[Marcel]

I'd like to think there's a bigger outcry for equal rights with homosexuality than bestiality.

But you're right, if we want this to be a true life sim that encompasses everything someone could be, then they'd have to put in quite a bit of time updating things. Asexuality, polygamy, necrophilia, pedophilia, incest, objectophilia,, or any other instance of paraphilia you can think of regardless of legality.

At that point, it's probably better to remove preferences and marriage options altogether.

So you are saying that gay relationships and marriage are a "gateway" and comparable to even illegal sexual acts? You realize how stupid and backward that opinion is, right?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

So you are saying that gay relationships and marriage are a "gateway"? You realize how stupid and backward that opinion is, right?

I'm not saying that at all. If anything, I'd say relationships being depicted at all is the "gateway" for more groups to come out and ask for inclusion.

 

[Marcel]

I'm not saying that at all. If anything, I'd say relationships being depicted at all is the "gateway" for more groups to come out and ask for inclusion.

It's the same flimsy logic that bigots use to frame an argument against gay marriage. "Why not make it legal to marry a cow, a goat. Soon they'll be asking to marry X thing" etc. It's a waste of time and needlessly complicates the discussion.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The person you're responding to was, I'm assuming, being sarcastic.
Are you seriously comparing people who engage in psychopathological and/or illegal paraphillia that may entail harm to others and homosexuality as though both are "groups" that warrant inclusion?
Really?

 

[Waylon Drums]

It's the same flimsy logic that bigots use to frame an argument against gay marriage. "Why not make it legal to marry a cow, a goat. Soon they'll be asking to marry X thing" etc. It's a waste of time and needlessly complicates the discussion.

I'd argue that that's their point, to needlessly complicate the discussion. There's no good reason for people to be against gay marriage/equality. If you don't agree with gay marriage, don't marry a gay. The "well, they'll want to marry a soda fountain next" argument isn't even an argument...it's just a thing people say when they have no actual point.

 

[Tomohawk]

I'm curious as to how people would react if there was a campaign for allowing the ability to marry multiple people or even objects, since there's nothing immoral about doing such things.

 

[justchris]

Not this again... Yes, they do. Turns out sexual orientation is something you're born with. Whodathunk?

This is not universally true. Don't assume your experience is the same as everyone else's.

 

[Waylon Drums]

I'm curious as to how people would react if there was a campaign for allowing the ability to marry multiple people or even objects, since there's nothing immoral about doing such things.

Seems like that's something for another thread, as this one is about same-sex relationships.