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[Cyan]

This isn't just an American issue. In Pakistan UN health workers were killed, because the local population believed there was a conspiracy to decrease population numbers with poisonous vaccinations that cause diseases.

Yeah... the thing with Pakistan is that the US seriously fucked up by piggybacking their search for Osama bin Laden onto a fake vaccination drive put together by the CIA.

I mean, yeah, they found bin Laden. Huzzah. They also set back vaccination efforts there for probably decades by actually engaging in the kind of behavior that these conspiracy theories think is going on.

Massive fuck-up.

Scientific American on the subject: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/

 

[besada]

i had them, they didn't have the vaccine until i was older. They weren't a big deal and are much better to get younger then older, but they are much better to not have at all, because once you have had the chickenpox you can get shingles when you are older, and that shit aint no joke

I've been lucky enough not to develop shingles, but I too had chicken pox. My wife, on the other hand, does have shingles, and she tells me it sucks ass.

 

[Jayburner]

I have another honest confession.

I thought only jewish people had autistic children. Just something I noticed from my rounds of doing heating and air-conditioning.

 

[TheBrain76]

These people are fucking sick.

Well 69% of them at least.

 

[Gambit82]

I have another honest confession.

I thought only jewish people had autistic children. Just something I noticed from my rounds of doing heating and air-conditioning.

.........what?

 

[Hitokage]

This was actually pretty common for chicken pox a few decades ago, particularly in multiple children households. Because taking care of a kid with chicken pox is a pain in the ass, parents wanted all of their kids to get it at the same time, since having it provides a level of immunization from getting it later.

I don't know if anyone still does this, but it used to be very common.

Now they're all potential shingles patients!

The vaccine isn't perfect but it's got to be better than "natural" immunity for this reason.

 

[Armaros]

.........what?

A lame account suicide in a thread with mods posting about the topic....

 

[Siegcram]

.........what?

He wanted to get banned really bad apparently.

 

[davepoobond]

I have another honest confession.

I thought only jewish people had autistic children. Just something I noticed from my rounds of doing heating and air-conditioning.

How do you "do" heating and air conditioning?

 

[HOMEBOY OVER HERE]

To be fair, the argument they use is not wanting to needlessly inject their kids with things. There's a ton of vaccines now that they try to get you to do, and it almost comes off as overwhelming to be pumping your brand new baby full of things. I don't agree with it, but I can sort of see the angle they're coming from.

This is how I see it also.

I do agree that vaccines are important but people in this thread are far too naive and trusting to just play off some of the concerns around modern medical vaccines .

We need to be more critical and see both sides. Not all vaccines are necessary.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Fucking idiots. They should get done for child abuse.

 

[Gambit82]

This is how I see it also.

I do agree that vaccines are important but people in this thread are far too naive and trusting to just play off some of the concerns around modern medical vaccines .

We need to be more critical and see both sides. Not all vaccines are necessary.

Do you have children? Which vaccines are not necessary that your pediatrician has recommended?

 

[-KRS-]

Has there even been any studies on the relationship between getting vaccinated and becoming autistic? Where do they get this from?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

We need to be more critical and see both sides. Not all vaccines are necessary.

Which ones are not necessary?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Has there even been any studies on the relationship between getting vaccinated and becoming autistic? Where do they get this from?

I believe this came from one dodgy study with no actual scientific merit attached to it, snowballed, and people believe it. Its nonsense.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Has there even been any studies on the relationship between getting vaccinated and becoming autistic? Where do they get this from?

There has, and so far it's been disproven.

 

[Siegcram]

Has there even been any studies on the relationship between getting vaccinated and becoming autistic? Where do they get this from?

No of course not. Autism is just a new scarecrow for parents.

See: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=826912

 

[CaptainSlow]

Fuck you Jenny McCarthy

 

[kess]

Given the resurgence of polio in Africa and South Asia, and the commonness of carrying it without displaying symptoms, I suspect it's only a matter of time before it gets a foothold back in the U.S.

My mom had polio, and still suffers from post-polio syndrome, which sucks.

Of course, if you really want to get the attention of mothers, who primarily decide whether their children are vaccinated or not, you want rubella back. The last rubella epidemic in the sixties caused thousands of still births and left many thousands of children suffering from CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome).

CRS, which my brother was born with, causes deafness, partial or complete blindness, heart malformation, and a host of less common complications ranging from microcephaly to Autism spectrum disorders.

Rubella might get anti-vaccine mom's attention, not that I'd wish that on anyone.

There are still quite a few older baby boomers who were half-crippled by polio. Even something as benign as spitting would engender fear - completely unimaginable now.

Ironically, some people into the natural and organic scene are into things like raw cow milk, which is unregulated in some states, and illegal to sell in others.

Just this past year, there was a case in Nevada where 26 people contracted tuberculosis from the stuff, a few months after the governor vetoed a bill that would have legalized direct sales of raw products.

 

[Kart94]

Paranoid people at it again. Geez, the likelyhood of you having complications or you or your kid getting austism is lower than you getting struck by lightning.

 

[DJ_Lae]

Which ones are not necessary?

Based on our experience from moving to another province, Alberta deems rotovirus unnecessary as it's not included in the regular batch of immunizations.

But it is supplied in BC as of a couple years ago.

We paid $70 or something for our daughter's second dose, because our first kid caught that and it was one of the most miserable things I've ever seen someone go through, shitting and puking for days.

Apparently it kills millions worldwide every year because of the dehydration it causes. I'd sooner see that one supplied here than chicken pox, which is probably the most mild of any vaccines here.

 

[User 100115]

For the chicken pox parties, parents were desperate to make sure their kids got it as kids and where then immune, because getting it as an adult can be fatal. So makes a small amount of sense.

My MIL is an anti-vaccer.

 

[siddhu33]

People who choose not to vaccinate themselves are absolute scum...they don't even bother to research the large library of evidence that shows that vaccination is probably one of the biggest lifesavers in the history of medicine, and rather choose to believe one disproved study (or a slightly famous lady who believed said disproved study) and develop cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias to entrench their opinion on this subject...People don't remember what Polio, Whooping Cough, TB, and Diptheria used to be like...and that's a good thing.

If a new strain of any of the diseases that we managed to remove from the general population comes back, it is going to suck for a very long time...

 

[Marty Chinn]

Which ones are not necessary?

Two months ago, my baby boy at 4 months old got the oral Rotovirus vaccine but he was so upset that he was crying hard and he threw it up immediately. It wasn't a reaction from the oral vaccine itself, but just the crying.

We told them and they said he wouldn't give it again, and even if he threw it all up, it's not that big of a deal. That struck us as odd. Not the fact that he wouldn't get it again, because that makes sense. But the fact that they said it was no big deal was kind of odd.

 

[Mutanthands]

This is how I see it also.

I do agree that vaccines are important but people in this thread are far too naive and trusting to just play off some of the concerns around modern medical vaccines .

We need to be more critical and see both sides. Not all vaccines are necessary.

You need to clarify. Which vaccines do think are unnecessary?

 

[DJ_Lae]

For the chicken pox parties, parents were desperate to make sure their kids got it as kids and where then immune, because getting it as an adult can be fatal. So makes a small amount of sense.

My MIL is an anti-vaccer.

Are you actually immune for life, though? There's someone we know who elected to infect her kids with chicken pox rather than vaccinate to spare them shingles later in life...yet as far as I know shingles is caused by the mostly dormant chicken pox virus you caught as a kid, so her plan seems kind of silly.

Not sure if there are any actual results for older people who were immunized as a child as the chicken pox vaccine hasn't been around for that long.

 

[Armaros]

People who choose not to vaccinate themselves are absolute scum...they don't even bother to research the large library of evidence that shows that vaccination is probably one of the biggest lifesavers in the history of medicine, and rather choose to believe one disproved study (or a slightly famous lady who believed said disproved study) and develop cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias to entrench their opinion on this subject...People don't remember what Polio, Whooping Cough, TB, and Diptheria used to be like...and that's a good thing.

If a new strain of any of the diseases that we managed to remove from the general population comes back, it is going to suck for a very long time...

Basically we are getting close to 2 generations away from when many viruses and diseases were ravaging populations that we mostly stomped out due to aggressive vaccinations.

Now that those are mostly gone from the 1st world, people think we dont need to maintain them anymore, and that is how you introduce a new strain of those diseases that vaccines cant do anything about.

Are you actually immune for life, though? There's someone we know who elected to infect her kids with chicken pox rather than vaccinate to spare them shingles later in life...yet as far as I know shingles is caused by the mostly dormant chicken pox virus you caught as a kid, so her plan seems kind of silly.

Not sure if there are any actual results for older people who were immunized as a child as the chicken pox vaccine hasn't been around for that long.

Whoever said that got it wrong, in the past before the vaccine, you 'made sure' your child got chicken pox at a child to avoid the more dangerous form of it that occurs when you get it as an adult, which is potentially fatal. The chance of Shingles later in life was just something you had to deal with. Now with the vaccine, you can avoid both.

 

[$200]

wow

Oh, okay.

If you disagree then feel free to share your thoughts and opinions on this matter.

 

[kess]

I kind of wish that the people who worry about thiomersol in vaccines would focus on toxic waste being propagated from incinerators, cement factories, and coal-fired power plants, but I guess that subject is too abstract and impersonal for public debate.

 

[CornBurrito]

And you know anti-vaccination nutjobs will twist this to fit some conspirationist agenda. Sigh.

Or say that if vaccines worked then vaccinated people wouldn't have to worry about this at all.

Ignoring how evolution works.

 

[Northeastmonk]

People shouldn't worry about it. Get your kids vaccinated for a safer life. It's illogical to stand against it.

 

[Armaros]

Or say that if vaccines worked then vaccinated people wouldn't have to worry about this at all.

Ignoring how evolution works.

People are ignorant or ignore what Herd Immunity is and why we vaccinate entire populations for.

 

[User 100115]

Are you actually immune for life, though? There's someone we know who elected to infect her kids with chicken pox rather than vaccinate to spare them shingles later in life...yet as far as I know shingles is caused by the mostly dormant chicken pox virus you caught as a kid, so her plan seems kind of silly.

Not sure if there are any actual results for older people who were immunized as a child as the chicken pox vaccine hasn't been around for that long.

My kids were immunized, but I wasn't. So yeah, it hasn't been around long.

And there's not much in the way of study when it's something passed down from family to family. People have been doing chicken pox parties for a long time, at least since my grandma was a kid. (So at least 100 years).

I haven't heard of one happening since the vaccine became a thing though.

 

[iamblades]

Anti intellectualism is celebrated in America.

The anti vax movement started in the UK, and quack science alt medicine is probably even more popular in Europe than mainstream America, Germany is like the epicenter of homeopathic medicine.

And that's before even mentioning all the anti GMO hysteria that comes out of Europe.

Plenty of anti intellectualism on both sides of the pond.

 

[echoshifting]

If you disagree then feel free to share your thoughts and opinions on this matter.

I'm not one of em, but I'll share my thoughts anyway.

Anti-vac people are misguided but passionate parents. They are making decisions they think are best for their children because they do not perceive the risks to their children or society associated with not vaccinating....but they *do* perceive the (largely imaginary) risk of vaccinating their children. Thus, they do not vaccinate.

Negligent? Perhaps...ignorance breeds negligence in all sorts of ways. But how can you call them murderers when, by and large, they do not comprehend the risks associated with their decision not to vaccinate? Go after Jenny McCarthy, fine, but the average anti-vac parent doesn't see the social cost. At worst, they are putting the needs of their children above others, which is a very natural thing to do as a parent. Education is the key here and you can't start a conversation with these people by accusing them of being murderers. Why even go there?

 

[Mutanthands]

Basically we are getting close to 2 generations away from when many viruses and diseases were ravaging populations that we mostly stomped out due to aggressive vaccinations.

Now that those are mostly gone from the 1st world, people think we dont need to maintain them anymore, and that is how you introduce a new strain of those diseases that vaccines cant do anything about.



Whoever said that got it wrong, in the past before the vaccine, you 'made sure' your child got chicken pox at a child to avoid the more dangerous form of it that occurs when you get it as an adult, which is potentially fatal. The chance of Shingles later in life was just something you had to deal with. Now with the vaccine, you can avoid both.

Not quite. The chicken pox vaccine is a live virus, and you can develop shingles after the vaccine. Apparently, the risk of shingles is lessened versus the risk from a regular chicken pox infection, but it's still there.

 

[terrisus]

Basically we are getting close to 2 generations away from when many viruses and diseases were ravaging populations that we mostly stomped out due to aggressive vaccinations.

Now that those are mostly gone from the 1st world, people think we dont need to maintain them anymore, and that is how you introduce a new strain of those diseases that vaccines cant do anything about.

This is the introduction to Final Fantasy 6, isn't it?

 

[kess]

When I was a kid, I hung out with a family that believed that if you were virtuous enough, God would regrow lost limbs and keep a person from getting sick. No joke.

I guess that's why John the Baptist has like, six skulls floating around Europe.

Ended up getting chickenpox from one of those damned kids, too.

 

[Hitokage]

Not quite. The chicken pox vaccine is a live virus, and you can develop shingles after the vaccine. Apparently, the risk of shingles is lessened versus the risk from a regular chicken pox infection, but it's still there.

It uses a virus sample modified to be less effective in the target host. It's not the regular virus.

 

[commedieu]

For the chicken pox parties, parents were desperate to make sure their kids got it as kids and where then immune, because getting it as an adult can be fatal. So makes a small amount of sense.

My MIL is an anti-vaccer.

...

Ahh mother in law!!!!!!! Learn something every day.

 

[HK-47]

The anti vax movement started in the UK, and quack science alt medicine is probably even more popular in Europe than mainstream America, Germany is like the epicenter of homeopathic medicine.

And that's before even mentioning all the anti GMO hysteria that comes out of Europe.

Plenty of anti intellectualism on both sides of the pond.

That's just standard gaf

 

[polyh3dron]

Thank you Jenny McCarthy.

 

[DemurOnion]

These people are fucking sick.

Fellow Onion, why are these people sick?

 

[echoshifting]

Fellow Onion, why are these people sick?

No vaccines.

 

[DemurOnion]

No vaccines.

Ahh. Well, it only seems like 200 of them? I say if it isn't raging bad let them do what they want. 200 people is a miniscule amount and well people are people. Some drink Jim Beam all day while their kids play around. Some don't get vacs. I can't be bothered tbh.

 

[$200]

I'm not one of em, but I'll share my thoughts anyway.

Anti-vac people are misguided but passionate parents. They are making decisions they think are best for their children because they do not perceive the risks to their children or society associated with not vaccinating....but they *do* perceive the (largely imaginary) risk of vaccinating their children. Thus, they do not vaccinate.

Negligent? Perhaps...ignorance breeds negligence in all sorts of ways. But how can you call them murderers when, by and large, they do not comprehend the risks associated with their decision not to vaccinate? Go after Jenny McCarthy, fine, but the average anti-vac parent doesn't see the social cost. At worst, they are putting the needs of their children above others, which is a very natural thing to do as a parent. Education is the key here and you can't start a conversation with these people by accusing them of being murderers. Why even go there?

Fair points. My feeling's definitely more towards those who knowingly promote anti-vaccination to benefit politically or financially.

That being said, not vaccinating puts not only yourself but people around you under unnecessary fatal risks. Being vocal about it does even more damage. Being ignorant has consequences and as adults they will have to face responsibilities. You can find a more pleasant sounding word than murder, I suppose.

 

[DemurOnion]

I can only see not getting a vac if it's like a new, untested one that is being pushed on people. I don't remember many problems from when I was a kid. I was vaccinated a fair amount. Some people are always going to be affected by something.

 

[Mutanthands]

It uses a virus sample modified to be less effective in the target host. It's not the regular virus.

Yes, hence the decreased, but not completely eliminated, risk of shingles.

 

[echoshifting]

Fair points. My feeling's definitely more towards those who knowingly promote anti-vaccination to benefit politically or financially.

That being said, not vaccinating puts not only yourself but people around you under unnecessary fatal risks. Being vocal about it does even more damage. Being ignorant has consequences and as adults they will have to face responsibilities. You can find a more pleasant sounding word than murder, I suppose.

Yeah I have noooo problem with calling those who are in this for political or financial gain murderers. They are fair game.

 

[PflargBlarg]

Two months ago, my baby boy at 4 months old got the oral Rotovirus vaccine but he was so upset that he was crying hard and he threw it up immediately. It wasn't a reaction from the oral vaccine itself, but just the crying.

We told them and they said he wouldn't give it again, and even if he threw it all up, it's not that big of a deal. That struck us as odd. Not the fact that he wouldn't get it again, because that makes sense. But the fact that they said it was no big deal was kind of odd.

Hmm, well do you have a reason why it would be a big deal?

True, general life experience tells us as humans that vomiting is usually because the body is trying to rid itself of some sort of bad material.
Consider that you have one data point that says "My baby vomited while receiving the vaccine." The professionals giving out these vaccines surely must have given it to thousands and thousands of babies. A baby vomiting is possibly uncommon, but it is likely that they've seen it before and so they would be in a situation where they could have fairly strong evidence that it's not a big deal.
I would lean towards trusting them, although I'm also curious as to if you asked further questions about how they knew it wasn't a big deal? Would be interesting to know.



Anyhow, vaccines are quite possibly the most important medical discovery in the history of humanity. It's immensely frustrating to see the ignorance of people causing the unnecessary suffering of hundreds of children. I would be more ok with it if it was just people deciding for themselves (still not good, since they're putting others at risk), but these are people putting little kids at risk of death.
That one publication in the Lancet is going to cause a lot of unnecessary pain throughout the world for decades.