matty2Dfraud
Banned
But we hate Microsoft on NEOGAF.
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Microsoft helping Dev, with free kits
- Thread starter statham
- Start date
But we hate Microsoft on NEOGAF.
SkeptiMism
Member
Yup I'm slightly confused as to why that's not the main focus. Getting free dev kits is genuinely a great thing, but it's not exactly new news.
I don't mean to thread whine though, just saying Volgarr is a great game and please be excited guys.
Not yet, that is the plan though
What is this ?
EDIT: Just found it, means MS gets the game exclusively, like owning your game
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'll believe it when I see it. It doesn't help that MS have been super quiet about this since the announcement, one might think they have quietly dropped those plans.
There is a good chance for that indeed
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
They've reiterated that very recently (I believe it might have been Spencer himself; EDIT: yup), but yeah, we're still waiting.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
lol no
Good question! Big companies are complicated though, I'm sure there's some corporate asset allocation whatever reasons for this, who knows?
All I know is, we are fully licensed devs for all three major console manufacturers. But Microsoft sent us 2 free dev kits, Sony told us they don't have any loaner dev kits available and directed us to where we can purchase them instead, and Nintendo just never gets back to us when we ask about a loaner kit so we're assuming its the same deal there. Frankly we were pretty surprised and disappointed by this after reading articles about Sony handing out dev kits "like candy", I guess we just missed the boat on that deal.
The only reason I mentioned it at all is to let Sony and Nintendo fans know that we aren't playing favorites, we aren't "in Microsoft's camp" or anything. In fact originally we were going to port in order of demand and we had the most demand for Vita, but I guess due to just poor timing on our part we missed the window where indie devs easily got loaner kits. Thus we didn't really have much choice. In our specific case, Microsoft gave us what we needed when we needed it, the others did not for whatever reasons, so Microsoft gets Volgarr first simply because we didn't make enough money from the PC version of Volgarr to afford buying dev kits at this time.
EDIT: As for the parity clause, which I agree does suck, for us we figure that by the time the game is on sale on XBox One and makes enough money for us to afford a dev kit and then we spend the time using that dev kit to port the game that the clause will no longer matter anyway. Also, from what I can tell, it only applies to PS4 and Wii-U, it doesn't affect releases to PC, Vita, or 3DS, so we'll probably end up porting to one of the handhelds first because their dev kits are cheaper than the console ones and the parity clause won't affect it. That's not an official Crazy Viking Studios promise or anything, anything can happen really, just conjecture on my part.
serversurfer
Member
Logically, the only reason would be they didn't think having this game on their platform would be a good return on the investment of loaning out $2500+ worth of hardware to these guys. Yes, Sony have been giving out dev kits "like candy" and for all we know, they may still be doing so but that doesn't mean that everyone gets one. You need to demonstrate some promise first.
Basically, what this dev is telling us is that after Sony and Nintendo rejected his game, MS decided to pick it up, and he's really happy about that. And that's not to say Volgarr won't be a good game; maybe Sony and Nintendo already have 50 games in that genre in development, and don't feel the need to pay for any more. If Sony feel they need to choose between backing a game like Abzû or Yet Another Retro Side-scroller, I'm personally glad they chose the former.
In any case, I don't think this article proves Sony has changed any of their policies, or that Microsoft's policies are any better than Sony's. It just indicates MS are scraping the bottom of the barrel for games.
And again, no offense to Crazy Viking Studios intended. <3
tringworldso
Member
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
MS gives you it for free and it's yours to keep. Sony has you pay for it, or accept one of their "loaners" (meaning it obviously doesn't truly belong to you, you don't own it, you don't keep it).
Just saying that the situations are a bit different..
But ya, like others said, we've known they got free kits since ID@Xbox was announced so I don't need to give them props for something we have known about for a while. However, I think the real news here is that Sony is out of their "loaner" stash and now makes you buy them if you want one. Kind of...weird?
That we should. However, I find it odd that they have a cap on how many they can loan out. They didn't "run out" of systems to loan out since you can buy one if you want, meaning that a kit would have to exist for you to buy it. Why can't they just get that kit you are making them pay for as a loaner? Why is there a cap so that these guys need to pay for one when many others didn't?
neogaffer1
Banned
No, that's not true. The parity clause says that any ID@XBOX game must launch at least alongside any other versions of the game (i.e. you can't have a timed exclusivity with Sony).
serversurfer
Member
Like I said, in addition to finding content for their platform, they're also responsible for curating said content. Perhaps Sony decided they already had "plenty" of games of this type. Perhaps they felt if Volgarr really had legs, CVS would be able to afford a $2500 dev kit, since the game has been out for nearly a year. There are plenty of valid reasons to choose to not fund a game's development beyond, "We don't do that anymore," even if that was the rationale offered.
Burning bridges, yadda yadda yadda.
I'm reasonably sure that loaner kits have always been given out on a case-by-case basis, and in this particular case, they decided it wasn't worth it. However, if Respawn decide to go indy tomorrow, I'm sure Sony could scrounge up a few dev kits for them if needed.
Ouch!
Its a good point though, its quite possible. I would say though, that seems a bit...unkind of them to approach us (they contacted us first) saying they want our game on their platform, go through the whole process of getting us approved, then lie to our faces and tell us that they don't have any available when the truth is they just don't think we're worth the investment after all. I guess the only way to know for sure is if some other indie dev mentioned getting a loaner dev kit after we were told there were none available.
I'd like to give Sony the benefit of the doubt though and believe that they really don't have any loaners left in stock and that the reason they can't just loan one of the ones they have for sale is because Business Stuff.
LowerLevel
Member
Both of those stories are almost a year old now... followed by a remarkable surge by Sony. They are the market leader, hands down, and are quite possibly so in demand that a "shortage" could be feasible. I'm hoping MS is learning a lesson and/or returning to what made XBL so great in the beginning and softening their heads.
Impeccable
Member
After all the negativity regarding to what, the ID@Xbox program or? I've seen a lot of positivity around the brand this E3 and rightfully so.
Michael Armbrust
Member
Free with the caveat that they either have to launch first or alongside other versions. No other fees.
They've changed it.
serversurfer
Member
Sorry! <3!!
Obviously, I'm just speculating here, and in my defense, I posted that before I saw your post.
Even reading your post though, I got the impression that you approached them initially, hoping to make a Vita game. If they did approach you first, it does seem odd they didn't offer you kits — especially Vita kits — but maybe they only have so many in the quarterly budget and they really did run out. Or maybe they figure they already have plenty of developers on board and really have changed the policy. Someone should tweet Shahid. lolRegardless, my intention wasn't to slight your game or your company in any way. I was just pointing out there are plenty of reasons why a specific developer might not get free hardware beyond "MS clearly <3 devs more than Sony do."
Either way, best of luck to you!! <3
Edit:
Oh?
Holy shit, you went to some crazy lengths just to shit on MS.
MS scraping the bottom of the barrel?
"no offence, but your game is trash in the eyes of Sony?"
Wtf is this?
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Hey folks. Folks. Listen.
Sony is giving away a free game this month! Isn't that awesome?!?! Oh, it's normal? It's something they already do as a part of the PS+ program? Hmm.
Why are we supposed to give Microsoft props for this then?
Sony is giving away a free game this month! Isn't that awesome?!?! Oh, it's normal? It's something they already do as a part of the PS+ program? Hmm.
Why are we supposed to give Microsoft props for this then?
theytookourjobz
Junior Member
Maybe bringing light to the fact that Nintendo and Sony aren't giving out free devkits will cause them to get on the same level as MS and foster indie development for all 3 consoles. Win-win-win.
Prototype Viktor
Member
This is more of a policy war
serversurfer
Member
"Let's all give props to MS for being the last choice among devs, and thereby being the last one to run out of loaner kits"?
I don't see how my post was any more fanboyish than the OP it was rebutting.
Holy shit at this thread... My mind can barely understand how there can be so much ignorance and idiotic behavior just to defend your console of choice.
Microsoft giving free kits is GOOD! That's it! People here trying to frame that as a negative thing is so ridiculous, it completely boggles me.
Microsoft giving free kits is GOOD! That's it! People here trying to frame that as a negative thing is so ridiculous, it completely boggles me.
If you are gonna be this cynic, you can say the same about SONY from last gen to this gen. They HAD to become the good guys because the disaster the PS3 was for what? the first 4 years?... I asure it was not a moral choice, more like "shit we just lost 80% of the market from PS2 to PS3".
This is business lads, there is not such thing as good will only strategic decisions. Either way it is good to see MS getting their heads out of their ass, competition is a good thing.
Skipping the drama in favour of OT response: really, really happy with a lot of what MS is doing right now. Drop the ridiculous parity clause and they'll have a legit great platform for indie development. I got sucked into the vortex of negativity a year ago along with many other enthusiasts and have been way too much of a fanboy since. Time to get back to what I love: playing games. Definitely getting an Xbox One by fall (and a Wii U this summer, as soon as I build my PC!)
? We have a thread each month about the PS+ games and people often say that Sony and PS+ are great in those threads. They are great! I love my PS+ games.
Also this thread is fucking disgusting. Go Indies though!
rakkadakka
Member
Parity clause is definitely the last thing they need to do, policy changes are easy, and that's one from when MS was the biggest kid on the block.
It is awesome though that this generation is turning into one where the big corps are fighting over indie games.
It is awesome though that this generation is turning into one where the big corps are fighting over indie games.
serversurfer
Member
No one is debating that. Some people are taking issue with others who are trying to frame Sony running out as a negative.
Sony started the whole "free dev kits" thing, and then MS jumped on the bandwagon. Sony ran out before MS did, so now we're supposed to praise them for their superior, indy-friendly policies, while ignoring the continued parity clause, which is still in full effect according to CVS.
"Holy shit at this thread," indeed.
Steverulez
Member
Not yet, don't know when it will happen
soul creator
Member
I imagine that the underlying hardware is the same, but the specific software needed to convert it to a "dev kit" is something that's currently only done with specific Microsoft approval through ID@Xbox, which is still relatively strict, compared to say, making a PC or iOS game.
The retail devkit plans that were talked about last year is to make it so anyone (whether it's an actual company, or just a random person who wants to mess around) can develop stuff for it. That's closer to the iOS/Windows/Google Play/XNA model, where anyone can pay a yearly fee, and then use their regular old phone and PC/Mac to develop stuff. That's what still hasn't happened yet.
At least bring back the clause that allows a later release as long as there is any bit of extra content. Not having this and giving certain devs preferential treatment just cause is lame.
Night Angel
Member
I have to go with this as well. Free dev kits are nice, but if a developer can't afford to develop a game on multiple platforms at once it ends up doing more harm than good, especially because in this case they'd have to deliberately choose to target the smaller fanbase.
Registered in Feb., expecting mine in Sept. Backlogged indeed!