Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Maybe people should stop being super eager to jump to conclusions.
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The Witcher 3: Brief Intervew Excerpts feat. Tales from OP's Arse
- Thread starter d9b
- Start date
cheezcake
Member
Because some early PS4 games didn't have AF, so now it's a running gag that PS4 can't do it or something.
Of course that's not remotely true, but don't let that stop anyone >
Actually most of games do not have AF still. It seems to be expensive on PS4 for some reason that i personally dont understand.
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Btw nice overreaction. When people will learn that there was not a single example of 'parity' in any game in history of past gen games and current gen games?
There is no parity in software development, no one is forcing it and developers are not a fanboys. They will try to utilize free cycles on every machine.
cripterion
Member
They don't need all the time in the world. They have a PC version that will have all the bells and whistles, and a PS4 with so much headroom that it can effortlessly produce a superior result without a massive amount of extra work.
I am buying it for the visuals. And I am buying it for the gameplay. The problem with people like you is you think there needs to be some trade off, or that one element must inherently be less important than the other. And you go around trying to justify shitty decisions in the most ridiculous way, simply because it's impossible for you to admit the only reason parity exists in this case is because they're intentionally holding back on making a superior product so that the other console gamers don't have their feelings hurt.
There's no other justification for it. I play games, not consoles. And I demand the best possible experience from my consoles, devs who choose not to do not get my money.
I will support the version they release which has no sacrifices, my PC.
Really? Shit, I genuinely didn't know. I'll remove it. Must have forgot or something, didn't remember that being banned at all.
How do you know that?
In my opinion, CD Project has changed.
It's as simple as that... and no matter what "statements" they make, I am no 5 years old... in fact I consider their recent talk in regards to their " we stay true to our beliefs" kind of insulting my intelligence to be honest...
Shall I recap their latest "actions" and "statements"?
- A company that always was against DRM and such practices, decides to showcase and reveal their game for the first time, in a partnership with a company that is practically releasing an always online DRM console. (2013)
The most ridiculous part, is that their statement then, after the fan backlash was simple "denial"... "we did not know MS was going DRM and it is not something we should be held accountable for"
Really? They did not know XBOXONE was a fully DRM console back then? Nada? They had no clue with whom they were making partnership agreement to market their product? Sorry but IMHO: BS
- Then we have the whole "parity" thing. The guys even went as far as to imply that XBOXONE was easier to develop for, which ok I am not actually denying this, but it sure as hell sounds weird when the entride developing community says that PS4 is a joy to work for, easy to develop and such.
- Then there was the whole "we treat all gamers equally". Sorry but if I fork the same amount of cash to get the CE on PC or PS4 and miss some of the value that XBOXONE gamers get with the same amount of money, i dont know about you guys but I consider that pretty not equal value... dont know perhaps its just me.
But wait. They have to make partnerships in order to market their game, because then they will have to close their business. Sure. I dont disagree, they indeed need a partner to market their game. I am fine with that. But do that, while ACTUALLY treating all gamer equally. Reduce the price of PS4/PC versions accordingly, or increase the price of XBOXONE. Now THAT would actually be treating all gamers equally and with respect.
Once again their statement on this was -atleast in my opinion always- kind of insulting. They seemed keen to "victimize" themselves, like the gamers, their fans are simply overeacting, dont give a shit about the well being of CD Project. Why? Because according to CD Project, treating all gamers equally seems to go as far as digital content goes...
On top of that they present themselves as heroes, since they wont do what other devs do and provide DLC exclusivities. Oh my... we are supposed to say "thank you" and "I am sorry for doubting" you guys, and just deal with the fact that CD Project's "equality" means pretty much "same price for less".
Now if they indeed offer PC/PS4 versions for less money, I am perfectly allright... they can even give a horse with XBOXONE version for all I care. But atleast respect your fans' intelligence... really.
- Latest in their controversial statements is that these people, a dev studio that proudly presents cutting edge graphics technology, seems to not care so much about exploiting each system's true potential. And ofcourse here the bell rings for PS4. Everybody knows PS4 is more powerfull than XBOXONE. I wont speak about 50% more powerful, or such things, because that aint even accurate. But it is more powerful.
So what will this dev studio with its great graphics tech, do to exploit every hardware advantage a certain system has?
Nothing.
DOnt know about you guys, but IN MY OPINION, CD Project has changed a lot and their "partnership" certainly has them talking a lot more controversial than they once did...
Maybe I am seeing things, who knows...
It's as simple as that... and no matter what "statements" they make, I am no 5 years old... in fact I consider their recent talk in regards to their " we stay true to our beliefs" kind of insulting my intelligence to be honest...
Shall I recap their latest "actions" and "statements"?
- A company that always was against DRM and such practices, decides to showcase and reveal their game for the first time, in a partnership with a company that is practically releasing an always online DRM console. (2013)
The most ridiculous part, is that their statement then, after the fan backlash was simple "denial"... "we did not know MS was going DRM and it is not something we should be held accountable for"
Really? They did not know XBOXONE was a fully DRM console back then? Nada? They had no clue with whom they were making partnership agreement to market their product? Sorry but IMHO: BS
- Then we have the whole "parity" thing. The guys even went as far as to imply that XBOXONE was easier to develop for, which ok I am not actually denying this, but it sure as hell sounds weird when the entride developing community says that PS4 is a joy to work for, easy to develop and such.
- Then there was the whole "we treat all gamers equally". Sorry but if I fork the same amount of cash to get the CE on PC or PS4 and miss some of the value that XBOXONE gamers get with the same amount of money, i dont know about you guys but I consider that pretty not equal value... dont know perhaps its just me.
But wait. They have to make partnerships in order to market their game, because then they will have to close their business. Sure. I dont disagree, they indeed need a partner to market their game. I am fine with that. But do that, while ACTUALLY treating all gamer equally. Reduce the price of PS4/PC versions accordingly, or increase the price of XBOXONE. Now THAT would actually be treating all gamers equally and with respect.
Once again their statement on this was -atleast in my opinion always- kind of insulting. They seemed keen to "victimize" themselves, like the gamers, their fans are simply overeacting, dont give a shit about the well being of CD Project. Why? Because according to CD Project, treating all gamers equally seems to go as far as digital content goes...
On top of that they present themselves as heroes, since they wont do what other devs do and provide DLC exclusivities. Oh my... we are supposed to say "thank you" and "I am sorry for doubting" you guys, and just deal with the fact that CD Project's "equality" means pretty much "same price for less".
Now if they indeed offer PC/PS4 versions for less money, I am perfectly allright... they can even give a horse with XBOXONE version for all I care. But atleast respect your fans' intelligence... really.
- Latest in their controversial statements is that these people, a dev studio that proudly presents cutting edge graphics technology, seems to not care so much about exploiting each system's true potential. And ofcourse here the bell rings for PS4. Everybody knows PS4 is more powerfull than XBOXONE. I wont speak about 50% more powerful, or such things, because that aint even accurate. But it is more powerful.
So what will this dev studio with its great graphics tech, do to exploit every hardware advantage a certain system has?
Nothing.
DOnt know about you guys, but IN MY OPINION, CD Project has changed a lot and their "partnership" certainly has them talking a lot more controversial than they once did...
Maybe I am seeing things, who knows...
"How will CD Projek be taking advantage of the PS4′s unified GDDR5 memory architecture and whether they will be developing specific graphical features which they might have found to be possible only on the PS4?"
It makes sense, i'm ok to have a better resolution and framerate and perhaps better textures. Probably "specific graphical features" would have been something like the fur tech or things like that. Will still get my limited edition on the PS4 on dayone.
It makes sense, i'm ok to have a better resolution and framerate and perhaps better textures. Probably "specific graphical features" would have been something like the fur tech or things like that. Will still get my limited edition on the PS4 on dayone.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Except it's not wild speculation. This is a thread literally about the Witcher devs saying the Xbox One and PS4 versions will have parity. There's no other interpretation in the original OP. So please, if you're not going to bother to actually read the topic or any posts and respond with any level of intellectual directness, you'd be better off responding to a dead fish or something.
Later on this page we found out the Witcher 3 devs don't classify AA, resolution, textures under 'special effects', which nobody had any way to tell from the original comments. So, going under the original premise, the conversation that played out in this topic was appropriate and nobody was overreacting.
The only people who look absurd now are the ones who were trying to defend the horrendous practice of forced parity. But please do align yourself with that crowd if you prefer, so I can deconstruct your logic too. It's always fun
No, I'm simply asking for the game to make use of the extra headroom on PS4, with things like a better framerate or better resolution or better AA. Use the power of PS4 where you can to make the experience better for gamers. It's simple, and as we can now see, the Witcher 3 devs agree
Yes fuck parity bs.
CyberPunked
Member
Haha, okay.
Haven't most games that have come out for both PS4 and XBone been pretty much the same other than FPS and resolution? I know that MGSV had volumetric shadows on PS4, but can't think of much else.
justsomeguy
Member
Finally something we agree on!
They want to sell their game on every platform, doesn't make sense to make one seem better. Then again I heard PC owners cancel their preorders because no cloth map.
Y'now it's a shame. They've got caught hitching their wagon on console to MS and I'm having trouble really blaming them for their bland and deflective PR responses to leading questions.
They clearly tried 360 initially due to its popularity in US and have aligned to MS from a PR perspectiv this gen (so far) and to be fair given 360 position it's not hard to see why.
They're getting PR from MS and a place on the MS podeium and marketing push from MS.
In return they're clearly:
So it sucks a bit and yeah you can nitpick they're dodging a bit around their ideals, but I'm going to have to be a bit of an apologist for them as their support for PC has been exemplary and they've really only wavered the tiniest bit from their ideals. Heck they're not even giving MS any exclusive in-game stuff - they've stuck to just some physical items in the CE. Compare that to the extent to which others have given MS (or Sony) exclusive in-game content or timed content or whatever.
I still expect Witcher 3 to be great on all platforms nonetheless at this point (I'll be on either PC or PS4 for the game - probably PC) and while I have to shake my head a little ruefully that their strategy to broaden out further onto consoles hasn't gone as smoothly as it could I'm not going to villify them for some neutral PR responses and some playing cards and a map in a CE collection.
If I want to villify anyone it'd be SE/CD and TBH the more I look at how badly their deal is likely to pan out for the TR franchise the less I feel inclined to villify them but to worry they've really hurt a long standing IP in gaming history (to be fair wouldn't be the first time the TR IP has taken a knock but still).
They clearly tried 360 initially due to its popularity in US and have aligned to MS from a PR perspectiv this gen (so far) and to be fair given 360 position it's not hard to see why.
They're getting PR from MS and a place on the MS podeium and marketing push from MS.
In return they're clearly:
- giving MS a few extra goodies - the must maligned extra pack in stuff in the CE edition
- avoiding saying anything negative about XB1 version and avoiding saying anything that implies PS4 version might be different/better somehow
- feeling a little caught in the spotlight of current trends turning against MS and trying to avoid saying the wrong thing (both with respect to MS/XB1 and Sony/PS4)
So it sucks a bit and yeah you can nitpick they're dodging a bit around their ideals, but I'm going to have to be a bit of an apologist for them as their support for PC has been exemplary and they've really only wavered the tiniest bit from their ideals. Heck they're not even giving MS any exclusive in-game stuff - they've stuck to just some physical items in the CE. Compare that to the extent to which others have given MS (or Sony) exclusive in-game content or timed content or whatever.
I still expect Witcher 3 to be great on all platforms nonetheless at this point (I'll be on either PC or PS4 for the game - probably PC) and while I have to shake my head a little ruefully that their strategy to broaden out further onto consoles hasn't gone as smoothly as it could I'm not going to villify them for some neutral PR responses and some playing cards and a map in a CE collection.
If I want to villify anyone it'd be SE/CD and TBH the more I look at how badly their deal is likely to pan out for the TR franchise the less I feel inclined to villify them but to worry they've really hurt a long standing IP in gaming history (to be fair wouldn't be the first time the TR IP has taken a knock but still).
Hydrargyrus
Member
Wtf???
If that's the path they are goig to follow, better they can go to fu** themselves.
I'm not going to buy an intentionally downgraded version
If that's the path they are goig to follow, better they can go to fu** themselves.
I'm not going to buy an intentionally downgraded version
Obviously there was other interpretations. Post number fucking FOUR in the thread nailed it:
C'mon man. Its ok to admit you jumped the gun, as did many others.
justsomeguy
Member
That was EXACTLY the interpretation I took from the original comments:
Don't try and twist that into something it's not (pro-parity, etc.)
cheezcake
Member
There is another interpretation, the correct one. Not all visual differences are "special graphical features".
Better framerate is not a special graphical feature.
Higher resolution is not a special graphical feature.
Better texures are not a special graphical feature.
Better AF is not a special graphical feature.
And many, many more things which could serve to visually differentiate the game across platforms are not special graphical features. A hilariously bad leap in logic led to a misleading thread title, and you made that same leap.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
They never said that both versions would have parity. The person who wrote the thread title said that. They said that the ps4 version wouldn't get special exclusive features. Which people like myself were saying that it's's ok. It should be obvious that the ps4 would have better vanilla visuals. Your overreaction was the epitome of a overexaggerated knee-jerk reaction. Especially considering that you just assumed that it was forced parity based on nothing but borderline conjecture.Except it's not wild speculation. This is a thread literally about the Witcher devs saying the Xbox One and PS4 versions will have parity. There's no other interpretation in the original OP. So please, if you're not going to bother to actually read the topic or any posts and respond with any level of intellectual directness, you'd be better off responding to a dead fish or something.
Later on this page we found out the Witcher 3 devs don't classify AA, resolution, textures under 'special effects', which nobody had any way to tell from the original comments. So, going under the original premise, the conversation that played out in this topic was appropriate and nobody was overreacting.
The only people who look absurd now are the ones who were trying to defend the horrendous practice of forced parity. But please do align yourself with that crowd if you prefer, so I can deconstruct your logic too. It's always fun
No, I'm simply asking for the game to make use of the extra headroom on PS4, with things like a better framerate or better resolution or better
LOL wut? Who said anything about higher res and frame rate in the OP?
The more I get informed about the gaming industry, the more distraught I become about it. Sometimes I feel like I'm listening to politicians running for office and their rhetoric.
How is forced parity good for all gamers? I mean, for the group with the weaker console it is, but for the group with the stronger console it is not. It's contradictory.
Is it possible? Logically, it is possible, I mean if the Xbox One has a reputation of having inferior multi-platform games, it equates to possible loss of sales. It's not a good reputation to have. So how do you fix such a conundrum? You can't upgrade the hardware, so you reach parity through the software (game development). Only way to do that is to hold one version back. It is very disheartening, if true.
I only go by what the developers say. The developers said parity and made no qualifiers, nor did they explain what 'special effects' mean.
I am not going to extrapolate from thin air. I am going to respond to the premise of the topic and reject the notion of parity.
And yes, obviously, no game is -exactly- the same, but it is absolutely true that developers can work to make two versions as close as humanly possible at the expense of the superior platform. That's not controversial at all, it has been done before.
Because I talk with developers all the time on NeoGAF and elsewhere, devs who work on both platforms. And because there have been something of the order of a billion developers who have confirmed the differences between the platforming environments. Things like the PS4 being far faster and easy to develop for are not abstractions, they're facts. I can pull up a list of like fifty developers who have confirmed this over and over again. Simply read neoGAF devs and they will all confirm the relative ease of the developer environment vs. its competitors, the faster time to get a game up and running, and the massive amount of extra headroom it has (50% or more in some cases).
BouncyFrag
Member
I fear what would happen to Gaf if this happened or a scenario where they are both 1080p with comparable framerate.
soulassssns
Banned
Meh, I'll be getting this on PC anyway.
Kamina
Golden Boy
Ah i remember that.Because some early PS4 games didn't have AF, so now it's a running gag that PS4 can't do it or something.
Of course that's not remotely true, but don't let that stop anyone >
Given the fact that AF is basically not requiring any resources i didn't know using this as gag basis was still a thing.
CD Projekt is trying to compete with a big boys now. Full-scale, no-compromises AAA RPG. They're competing with the biggest companies in the industry now.
That requires compromises. That requires business strategy. Business strategy never meshes well with morals. If you won't bend at least a little, you simply can't compete. That's just the way it is.
That being said, in my opinion, you are way overreacting to a pack of cards and a cloth map. It's not exactly "free", Microsoft paid for it.
That requires compromises. That requires business strategy. Business strategy never meshes well with morals. If you won't bend at least a little, you simply can't compete. That's just the way it is.
That being said, in my opinion, you are way overreacting to a pack of cards and a cloth map. It's not exactly "free", Microsoft paid for it.
intheinbetween
Member
and here go again with the sentiment of PS4 being 200% more powerful than XB1, smh
PS4 is more powerful, but not that powerful to put the XB1 version to shame, or to display graphic settings at 1080p with maxium settings while XB1 should be ~900p at medium settings.
some of you should lower your expectations about the current consoles. we all know PS4 is more powerful than XB1, but when I read these threads it's like PS4 is way more powerful than XB1, when it's not that far, but hey, I know this post will bring more shit to the fan.
btw, lmao at people already bringing the tinfoil hat with the conspiracy about MS paying to gimp the PS4 version.
personally, I can't wait to play TW3 on my PC
PS4 is more powerful, but not that powerful to put the XB1 version to shame, or to display graphic settings at 1080p with maxium settings while XB1 should be ~900p at medium settings.
some of you should lower your expectations about the current consoles. we all know PS4 is more powerful than XB1, but when I read these threads it's like PS4 is way more powerful than XB1, when it's not that far, but hey, I know this post will bring more shit to the fan.
btw, lmao at people already bringing the tinfoil hat with the conspiracy about MS paying to gimp the PS4 version.
personally, I can't wait to play TW3 on my PC
cheezcake
Member
It's funny because they didn't.
There was clearly NO WAY for him not to know this. Other people almost immediately stepping to the right interpretation were obviously just wizards, man. Lay off.
Denton
Member
And this is what happens when people misunderstand marketing speak.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
I don't get it why people always complain about PC elitism when PS4 elitism is much more of an issue here.
There's inherent value in frametime headroom. If the PS4 version is extra stable, it's already superior. What more do you need? Should Geralt's sweat consist of millions little banderasgifs to make sure it runs at 15fps?
There's inherent value in frametime headroom. If the PS4 version is extra stable, it's already superior. What more do you need? Should Geralt's sweat consist of millions little banderasgifs to make sure it runs at 15fps?
plasmawave
Banned
Are they going parity with the PC as well or are they being another hypocrites?
MMaRsu
Banned
The worst thing is that no interviewer has any balls to call them out that their answer is clear cut bullshit.
cripterion
Member
If it's so easy to develop for why am I still not seeing a release for Planetside 2, why was it hard porting TLOU, why isn't Destiny 60fps on PS4? No 60 fps for Dynasty Warriors?I mean c'mon man I kinda get what you are saying but you make it out to be this beastly machine when it's not. You said it yourself, you also buy this game for the graphics in which case you know full well the pc version is the one to get.
Oh we all know the PS4 has better specs but I don't recall CDP saying the PS4 was massively superior to the XBox one, be it in terms of porting or power.
Well, it seems like you're a well adjusted fellow who is in no way a crazy person. Let me stand corrected.
Great post.
Well explain why he's wrong.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Thank you CD Project. <3
Never played a game from you before, but I will 100% support you with The Witcher 3.
Really sucks getting left our this gen by third parties.
Never played a game from you before, but I will 100% support you with The Witcher 3.
Really sucks getting left our this gen by third parties.
DriveClub, Project Cars?
I dunno if they finally added AF to The Order, but it lacked it few months. Direct feed screens are not good enough to judge
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Sure, if You have fanboy glasses.
Let me put it in different terms for you. In a world where a developer actually made a PS4 game have parity to an XBO game, the only explanation is forced parity. It is extremely simple to exploit the extra headroom on PS4, and there's actually no detriment to your product to do so. It takes not a significant amount of extra time depending on the effects you're implementing, and you get a lot of gamer goodwill for doing it.
A developer would have to make an active choice not to exploit the PS4's extra headroom for the games to have real parity (or, since people want to be so -precise-, as close to what we can call parity for a game, since no two games are ever exactly alike). It's like the old story about how fast it took to get Call of Duty Ghosts at 1080p/60fps on PS4 versus how long it took to get XBO to even get to its point, which wasn't even 1080p. Now the XBO environment has improved massively since then, and the difference is no longer as wide. But due to the added complexity of the dev environment - owing specifically to the ESRam feature and the relative limitations of the 16ROPs - it is harder to get a game up and running at an acceptable level. "Harder" is of course relative.
So, when you make a PS4 version and the game can be brought up to snuff in a much quicker time period, what do you suggest they do with the extra time? Since it's relatively painless to add those extra visual features, why shouldn't they? There's no 'trade off' here as you were trying to suggest earlier.
Thankfully the Witcher 3 devs see it this way, because now we have their definition of "special features." And most devs also don't see it this way, as some trade-off. They see the easier dev environment and the extra headroom and they know what they must do. Gamers win.
Leb said:
Are you going to sarcastically insult people, or actually respond critically to extremely detailed posts analyzing my positions? Parity is fucked up, and people who support parity do so to the detriment of gamers. Since this game doesn't actually have parity now, this topic has became about those who support the insulting practice.
Which of his points are wrong and why?
Red-kit mods will be the big difference maker. Can't wait to see what people do with the size of the open world. Expecting a Bethesda game sized mod community.
And even then, isn't the PC version getting exclusive Direct Compute and APEX graphical features?
Kamina
Golden Boy
While this is true, you as PC player should know that even a little difference in resolution and framerate can make quite a different gaming experiance.
"So what will this dev studio with its great graphics tech, do to exploit every hardware advantage a certain system has?
Nothing."
His whole rant was based on this being true. Which it isn't.
I wish I could give you a cookie.
cripterion
Member
Yeah lol, these devs still release what's seems to be an amazing game on the cheap with plenty of bonuses and no DRM and people shitting on them cause "omg, they are in bed with MS, the enemy of gamers!".
This Tomb Raider announcement brought out the crazy in some of you.
Curious myself....