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[Boy Wander]

One final quote in response to complaints about ALBWs structure:

"I think the rental system had the effect of changing how the game progresses. However, there were quite a few complaints from players who felt let down that it lacked the classic zelda element of exploring dungeons to get items that gradually let you do more. Empathy and growth are important elements in Zelda games and acquiring new items in order to reach new areas was an element of gameplay related to growth. I realize that in order to satisfy all players, we must not only come up with new ideas, but also include something that allows the player to experience enjoyable elements from older titles in the series in a new way".

Says a lot without saying anything much, this guy

 

[Hyperactivity]

Anyone thinking it would was delusional, honestly.

Good

 

[Shion]

Emphasis on co-directed. Aonuma's strengths do not lie in world design and lore. Game design perhaps.

Meh

I've always been an advocate of Koizumi taking over Zelda.

We can only hope.

 

[Busaiku]

I don't know what this means.

 

[Violet_0]

that E3 video looked pretty open world-y to me

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

So, open world like every other Zelda game then?

I wouldn't call TP open world, shit was Narrow Passageways: The Game.

 

[Jezan]

He always says the same stuff each Zelda, promises things and never delivers. Aonuma go back to work.

Also Majora's Mask please!

 

[Moon_frogger]

I love how some of you have derived meaning from this absolutely meaningless statement. 'Oh thank god' as if he said something that wasn't purposefully vague' or 'hype diminished' as if any details about anything were actually revealed. The man said nothing. He talked about old Zelda but didn't even say if this was like old Zelda or something different. Nothing at all was learned here

 

[semiconscious]

We also need a game map that depicts the world as it is. The gamepad is very effective for this. Innovations in this game are only possible due to Wii U hardware...

because switching to an in-game map screen is impossible?...

how did we manage to live without the gamepad? ...

 

[Oni Link 666]

You won't be able to go to the top of that mountain until you have the power bracelet, feather, bombs, and the hookshot.

 

[Volotaire]

One final quote in response to complaints about ALBWs structure:

"I think the rental system had the effect of changing how the game progresses. However, there were quite a few complaints from players who felt let down that it lacked the classic zelda element of exploring dungeons to get items that gradually let you do more. Empathy and growth are important elements in Zelda games and acquiring new items in order to reach new areas was an element of gameplay related to growth. I realize that in order to satisfy all players, we must not only come up with new ideas, but also include something that allows the player to experience enjoyable elements from older titles in the series in a new way".

Says a lot without saying anything much, this guy

I'm glad he responded to this, because in a Kotaku interview, I remember him saying he had not heard complaints about the simplistic nature of simple ALBW's dungeon difficulty.

They'll either be a few mandatory starting, ending or mid-game dungeons that are have required items, or he has another way of structuring the game.

Add to the OP please.

You won't be able to go to the top of that mountain until you have the power bracelet, feather, bombs, and the hookshot.

lol

 

[Mango The Magician]

One final quote in response to complaints about ALBWs structure:

"I think the rental system had the effect of changing how the game progresses. However, there were quite a few complaints from players who felt let down that it lacked the classic zelda element of exploring dungeons to get items that gradually let you do more. Empathy and growth are important elements in Zelda games and acquiring new items in order to reach new areas was an element of gameplay related to growth. I realize that in order to satisfy all players, we must not only come up with new ideas, but also include something that allows the player to experience enjoyable elements from older titles in the series in a new way".

Says a lot without saying anything much, this guy

is this actually from Aonuma? Because if so, the item shop potentially being gone gives me a lot of hope, at least in terms of items, as while I liked Ravio the shop mechanic ruined a very special aspect of Zelda.

 

[televator]

Sounds like it'll be open world in the vein of Wind Waker/Skyshit Sword, e.g. a very wide & open hub world that you use to get to all the isolated, scripted areas.

With very few interesting things put in it. Oh boy!

 

[The Boat]

I'm glad he responded to this, because in a Kotaku interview, I remember him saying he had not heard complaints about the simplistic nature of simple ALBW's dungeon difficulty.

They'll either be a few mandatory starting, ending or mid-game dungeons that are have required items, or he has another way of structuring the game.

I'm not surprised, people act like Nintendo doesn't hear their fans, but every single Zelda addresses most of the complaints people has about the previous game.

 

[Moon_frogger]

because switching to an in-game map screen is impossible?...

how did we manage to live without the gamepad? ...

I love how he says 'to recreate what was done in the original we a peripheral that wasn't available for the original'

It's drivel.

 

[Nimajneb]

Good. We don't need another GPS simulator.

 

[SteveO1683]

I think the idea might be similar to renting tools like we had with A Link Between Worlds. You can explore the overworld as much as you've bought. If you come across a dungeon you might or might not be able to complete it if you haven't rented / bought that tool yet. So the idea is you can explore as much as you want, complete dungeons out of order but you're still limited by the tools you have which is now not limited to completing dungeons in order but by how much you've explored and how much cash you have to rent/buy the appropriate tools needed to complete the dungeon.

 

[deltatheta]

is this actually from Aonuma? Because if so, the item shop potentially being gone gives me a lot of hope, at least in terms of items, as while I liked Ravio the shop mechanic ruined a very special aspect of Zelda.

I like the idea of some items you can buy, some you find on the map, and some you find in dungeons. The first game did it this way and it was lovely.

Putting all or nearly all of the items in the dungeons makes the games really formulaic, which is my biggest problem with modern Zelda. I have the most fun games when I'm being surprised and having to decide for myself what to do and where to go next.

I think the idea might be similar to renting tools like we had with A Link Between Worlds. You can explore the overworld as much as you've bought. If you come across a dungeon you might or might not be able to complete it if you haven't rented / bought that tool yet.

Yeah, this is how the first game did it and I think it's the best. Modern Zelda (and modern game design in particular) is obsessed with never having a situation where the player can get stuck. If you know you can never get stuck, you have no motivation to pay careful attention and make decisions based on what you've seen so far. It sucks all the fun out of the game.

 

[Toparaman]

I think he just means that they're taking inspiration from Zelda 1 rather than modern open-world games. In other words, it's probably not going to be a quest-driven (Elder Scrolls) or mission-driven (GTA) game. I think progression in the game is going to be done in a more organic fashion, much like Zelda 1.

 

[Volotaire]

I'm not surprised, people act like Nintendo doesn't hear their fans, but every single Zelda addresses most of the complaints people has about the previous game.

Yes, I mean TP was a full 360 reaction to fans. One thing I wish the Zelda team does take on board is to remember the advances they made in other games to implement the next game. A dynamic day/night cycle, cutting through grass whilst walking, , etc. Those simple things. Although In understand some of those are redundant in games they want to create.

 

[Nerokis]

I love how he says 'to recreate what was done in the original we a peripheral that wasn't available for the original'

It's drivel.

If you go out of your way to interpret that paragraph in an incredibly narrow way, sure. But his point is that times changed, things became more complex, and a need for more direction necessitated more linearity. With a more intuitive, coherent world structure, and a map that leverages the GamePad to be as accurate as possible, it becomes easier to come up with an experience similar to the original The Legend of Zelda.

It's easy enough to disagree with that point, certainly, but "to recreate what was done in the original we a peripheral that wasn't available for the original" is a jarringly ridiculous summation of it, and that from-a-high-horse "It's drivel, gentlemen!" declaration is completely unearned.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

This quote makes me so happy, even if it doesn't really tell us much.

Why anyone would want Zelda to be structured like a standard, modern open-world game is beyond me.

 

[Brandon F]

Soooo you can't go to the mountains in the distance without a key?

 

[cackhyena]

Soooo you can't go to the mountains in the distance without a key?

Maybe you can, but what's in the mountains can't be opened without that key.

 

[Servbot24]

Soooo you can't go to the mountains in the distance without a key?

Wait... do people actually want everything to be open right from the start?

 

[Peltz]

Anyone else really intrigued by how the game would be impossible if not for the Gamepad? He mentioned navigation of the terrain being a central gameplay concept several times now.

 

[Servbot24]

Anyone else really intrigued by how the game would be impossible if not for the Gamepad? He mentioned navigation of the terrain being a central gameplay concept several times now.

Well it's not like he would say "Oh we can do this on any ol' system." I'm not counting on anything too amazing. Maybe touch to drop bombs ala tingle tuner, stuff like that.

 

[TaiKH92]

I wouldn't call TP open world, shit was Narrow Passageways: The Game.

I liked TP but this overworld was kind of bad...I think the new game's overworld should be more like A Link to the Past but in 3D, in ALTTP you could find many interesting things and useful items while exploring (like the cane of byrne) and it was really satisfying to do it and the overworld never felt empty (or too big) and even you could explore a lot of it even (almost) since the start of the game.

 

[mantidor]

Hmmm all Zeldas are open world as far as I know... I'm not getting the controversy.

 

[Alfredo]

I hope this doesn't mean "big maps, but loading screens in between." That would be a major disappointment.

 

[Akiller]

Kojima said a similar thing about TPP and after the gameplay i saw a lot of positive feedbacks about MGSV open-world structure.It's the dev who have to create the best suitable open-world structure for his game, not just saying:"Ok, let's Skyrim".

No GTA/Skyrim open-world=/=bad open-world

 

[fabricated backlash]

Of course not. Nintendo just has to do things different than everyone else just for the sake of it, even when whatever it is is well established.

Is it though? The last few major open world games all had vastly different approaches to open world game design, even regarding quality of execution there are huge discrepancies, between what publishers try to sell as "open world" and what they actually deliver.

Even the conceptual definition of open world is anything but well established.

 

[deltatheta]

Hmmm all Zeldas are open world as far as I know... I'm not getting the controversy.

When they talk about the new one being open world, they're referring to the lack of load screens and corridors between areas.

 

[mantidor]

Anyone else really intrigued by how the game would be impossible if not for the Gamepad? He mentioned navigation of the terrain being a central gameplay concept several times now.

I'm not expecting more than a very interactive map to be honest.

 

[timetokill]

Anyone else really intrigued by how the game would be impossible if not for the Gamepad? He mentioned navigation of the terrain being a central gameplay concept several times now.

I think it's going to be a map, but one that makes navigating "open world" stuff easier. Playing the original LoZ, which he referenced, was made much easier by the included map. With the GamePad able to provide that help and more, they can make a more complicated navigational structure and not have to signpost everything.

At least, that's what I hope.

 

[Volotaire]

I'm not expecting more than a very interactive map to be honest.

Given Nintnedo's and Aonuma's quotes about doubling down on of gamepad capabilities, I expect a more interactive/essential map than Wind Waker HD, plus a few more items that depend on the gamepad. At the expense of Off TV Play.

 

[cackhyena]

Yeah, having you move in real time as a dot on a map on the gamepad would be cool. No need to go to another screen. Like the companion app for MGS Ground Zeroes.

 

[Volotaire]

Yeah, having you move in real time as a dot on a map on the gamepad would be cool. No need to go to another screen. Like the companion app for MGS Ground Zeroes.

That's a sure bet, they have it in WW HD dungeons.

 

[Nekofrog]

aonuma is zelda poison for me

 

[cackhyena]

That's a sure bet, they have it in WW HD dungeons.

Oh, I wouldn't know. I'm only playing it on the pad in bed.

 

[LegendofLex]

One final quote in response to complaints about ALBWs structure:

"I think the rental system had the effect of changing how the game progresses. However, there were quite a few complaints from players who felt let down that it lacked the classic zelda element of exploring dungeons to get items that gradually let you do more. Empathy and growth are important elements in Zelda games and acquiring new items in order to reach new areas was an element of gameplay related to growth. I realize that in order to satisfy all players, we must not only come up with new ideas, but also include something that allows the player to experience enjoyable elements from older titles in the series in a new way".

Says a lot without saying anything much, this guy

He says nothing about "growth" in a combat sense. Just "acquiring new items in order to reach new areas." So what about getting items that suddenly make scary enemies seem less scary, helping me get to areas that I thought were too hard before?

Ugh. He almost sounded like he was on to something. The problem with ALBW's rental system was less about "getting places" and more about the item system not being properly woven into how players naturally consume content. It was just another "return to the central hub to progress the story" mechanic. The items still did let you do more, and were still used to get to places.

 

[The_Lump]

I'm perfectly happy with not knowing what he means. Id rather be surprised completely by their take on 'open world' than surprised that they conformed to what many folk think they should do.

Aonuma hasn't let me down yet so I'll trust they have a worthy concept up their sleeves. That's why they make the games and I don't.

 

[shouamabane]

Thank God.

 

[Skyzard]

Has the downgrade train begun?

 

[atr0cious]

I think it's going to be a map, but one that makes navigating "open world" stuff easier. Playing the original LoZ, which he referenced, was made much easier by the included map. With the GamePad able to provide that help and more, they can make a more complicated navigational structure and not have to signpost everything.

At least, that's what I hope.

I remember Aonuma talking about a 'break through' or something involving maybe a top down view from the gamepad. Maybe link gets a mirror or something(canon gamepad item) that they can look down into that allows them to view the world in real time. While in dungeons it would just show the floor, but outside it could show the overworld and maybe you have to keep track of shit stomping around, like that thing in the teaser. Once you find it, you use something to tag it and then you know where it is? Top down view in dungeons could have more layers, maybe Raiders or W101 like, where you're doing shit on the ground that affects something you can only see from above.

 

[KooopaKid]

I wouldn't call TP open world, shit was Narrow Passageways: The Game.

Isn't Dark Souls the same?

 

[Neff]

Isn't Dark Souls the same?

It is, but Zelda's geography is key to the way that series plays. Your equipment directly affects where you can and can't go, and there's a significant emphasis on puzzles. There's also quite a bit of backtracking. Environmental design is very, very important.

In Souls, you just go through an area and kill everything in the hope of boosting your stats so you can kill stronger things in other areas. The way those areas are designed are mainly to complement atmosphere and enhance variety/encounters, and they're relatively simplistic, if appropriately labyrinthine, as a result.

 

[Molemitts]

Isn't Dark Souls the same?

Dark Souls is generally sectioned off into individual areas that has branching pathways and areas that interconnect with each other and join back up to previous areas. If you get what I mean. Twilight princess is more linear compared to DS and has more open areas.

Here are maps of 2 areas in Dark Souls by comparison.

 

[Nakho]

Based Aonuma. Never enjoyed a truly open-world game as much as I enjoyed the most mediocre Zelda.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Isn't Dark Souls the same?

It bothers me in Twilight Princess for how badly its designed.
Hyrule Field is all divided up and you have to go from a decent sized clearing thats basically enclosed to a single little arch and go down a winding passageway just to get to another medium sized opening thats part of the same field.
OOT feels huge compared to TP.

Wasn't there even a "load screen" if you jumped from the bridge into the lake?