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Why doesn't zombie lore exist in many zombie stories?

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Zakalwe

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So many Zombie games or stories seem to be set in worlds where the concept of zombies has never existed, or is ignored or underplayed. Do you find it a little jarring when the characters in a game come across a zombie and don't refer to it as one? Like the concept has just been selectively stricken form the game's universe?

Like Walking dead calling them Walkers. I know the word Zombie exists in the universe, but having walkers be adopted above a word that already exists that describes the creatures much more precisely seems incredibly contrived.

Playing State of Decay now, and I don't know if anyone eventually refers to the creatures as zombies, but the last interaction between my characters discussed the creatures and it felt like they were purposely skirting around the word.

Surely it would be much more immersive if the characters discussed the idea of zombies?

Whenever I'm playing these kinds of games I hope for the dialogue to do something like this:

"well, if no else is going to say it I will. Zombies."
"Zombies? Yeh right, zombies aren't real!"
"OK man, if they're not real just close your eyes and those thing outside will disappear. Me? I've seen enough zombie movies to know that stocking up on anything that can bust a skull open with the least amount of effort is probably a good idea."

What do you think?

(Same goes for other mythical beings: vampires, werewolves, etc...)
 
I think it is part of the attempt to make these stories more than just another zombie show. I understand where you are coming from, though.
 
Not knowing that their zombies is what makes them scary. If everyone knew what a zombie was, then they basically had an idea of what to do.
 
Probably to avoid being self-referential. f you refer to them as zombies [for example], you have to abide by the rules people have come to expect from the term "zombie". You're restricting your own creativity in a way. Also, having people in a zombie show reference zombie movies sets a completely different tone than people being completely oblivious to the phenomenon.


"I've seen plenty zombie movies and I played Resident Evil 1, 2, 3 AND 4. Bullet in the brain is what they need!"

vs.

"O my fucking god what is going on this thing is still alive or is it dead how is it still moving I shot it in the heart 5 times holy fuck I'm going to die"


I guess.
 
which is better? state of decay or contagion? I just bought SoD, but now I am thinking of getting both.

Zakalwe said:
How so?
Click to expand...

the biggest thing about zombies is that instinctive fear of how "wrong" it is. If zombies were old hat and everyone was like "eh, just aim for the head and try not to get any in your mouth or eyes." the shock value is cut to a third, and you just have to step up and be a bad ass. It would just be another shitty part of life you had to deal with, like muggers, pedophiles, and telemarketers.
 
I dislike the Virus idea, I guess because it makes them scarier for me. I prefer Radiation, because we get cool looking grave zombies.
 
Yeah, it can be really stupid to see people act as if the concept is utterly new and foreign. Contrarily, vampires and werewolves are usually recognized.
 
In the Walking Dead comics, if memory serves, it's an alternate reality where George Romero never made "Night of the Living Dead" so they don't have that cultural touchstone to pin the virus on.

I believe I read that somewhere. Like that's the only point in their world's history that doesn't match our own.
 
Zakalwe said:
Yeh, I know. Like I said, it just seems contrived and takes me out of the moment when they try to use another word or just seem to ignore the word entirely.



How so?
Click to expand...

"Hey guys these zombies are acting like zombies in all those movies and books. Lets not be dumbasses and handle this right."
 
akira28 said:
the biggest thing about zombies is that instinctive fear of how "wrong" it is. If zombies were old hat and everyone was like "eh, just aim for the head and try not to get any in your mouth or eyes." the shock value is cut to a third, and you just have to step up and be a bad ass. It would just be another shitty part of life you had to deal with, like muggers, pedophiles, and telemarketers.
Click to expand...

Ok, except that after killing your first dozen you'll know the way to deal with them regardless of what you refer to them as. Eventually it would become routine (iof you survived long enough).

Also, I'm pretty sure if there was somehow a zombie outbreak in the real world, like if you woke up one day and 90% of the population were zombies (as improbable as that would be), I doubt it would be any less scary just because we know what they are.

Slayven said:
"Hey guys these zombies are acting like zombies in all those movies and books. Lets not be dumbasses and handle this right."
Click to expand...

As above.

Or:

"what are these things? I shot one five times in the chest and it kept coming"

"I don't know what they are, but I managed to stop one by smashing it's skull in. Seems like the brain is the sweet spot."

"ok, let's not be dumb asses and handle this right."

You're going to get to the exact same point soon enough, I don't see why it makes it unravels anything".
 
Same reason as how actors don't exist in the fictional universe of the movie.

With that said, even with all attempts of hiding the zombie word, the zombies themselves defy logic.
 
The Walking Dead exists in a universe where Night of the Living Dead does not exist, and the term Zombie was never popularized.

Comic Spoiler for the August issue:
Also, as of the last issue, things are getting complicated and the Zombies may be learning to speak.
 
The Newsflesh trilogy is set in a world with zombie media and it's used to survive the outbreak.

It's a pretty good read.
 
well that used to be a reoccurring dream for me so...it wouldn't be quite as scary since my dreams have a weird habit of coming true, one way or another. It would just suck. And be lonely.

Zakalwe said:
You're going to get to the exact same point soon enough, I don't see why it makes it unravels anything".
Click to expand...

level of expectation. If you can wrap your brain around something, you can probably handle it a lot better than if you're completely unprepared and the whole world is shocked to it's core.
 
'Lore' is rarely interesting and is usually just exposition.

Zombies films are often horror and often times the less you know, the more scary something is.
 
Zombine said:
The Walking Dead exists in a universe where Night of the Living Dead does not exist, and the term Zombie was never popularized.

Also, as of the last issue, things are getting complicated and the Zombies may be learning to speak.
Click to expand...
Oh Jesus.
I see that since Romero never existed they couldn't fucking learn from Day of the Dead -_-
 
vcassano1 said:
'Lore' is rarely interesting and is usually just exposition.

Zombies films are often horror and often times the less you know, the more scary something is.
Click to expand...

Again, more scary for who?

The writers not referencing to the creatures as zombies doesn't fool the audience. We know they're zombies (regardless of what they're called) if they share enough characteristics.

The characters in the game can be as scared as the writers write them. using the word "zombie" doesn't cripple their ability from making the characters seem like they're realistically terrified.
 
Horseticuffs said:
Oh Jesus.
I see that since Romero never existed they couldn't fucking learn from Day of the Dead -_-
Click to expand...

My thoughts echo yours.
Still not 100% sure it's real. The character might have had a mental break. It'll be touched upon in the September issue.
 
Zombine said:
The Walking Dead exists in a universe where Night of the Living Dead does not exist, and the term Zombie was never popularized.

Also, as of the last issue, things are getting complicated and the Zombies may be learning to speak.
Click to expand...

Oh good lord.
 
Zombine said:
The Walking Dead exists in a universe where Night of the Living Dead does not exist, and the term Zombie was never popularized.

Also, as of the last issue, things are getting complicated and the Zombies may be learning to speak.
Click to expand...

Why did I click the spoiler. lol
 
Slayven said:
There are no superhero comics in the Watchman universe instead western, pirate, and horror comics became popular.
Click to expand...

I just don't see why they omit the word from zombie stories. Not calling them zombies but having them behave just like zombies doesn't add any more terror.

I just don't really understand what it adds. Can anyone give an example of a game or story with zombies where they don't reference them as zombies where it actually adds something valuable to the narrative?
 
Zakalwe said:
I just don't see why they omit the word from zombie stories. Not calling them zombies but having them behave just like zombies doesn't add any more terror.

I just don't really understand what it adds. Can anyone give an example of a game or story with zombies where they don't reference them as zombies where it actually adds something valuable to the narrative?
Click to expand...

I think that is more about people wanting to separate their thing from just being another zombie whatever.
 
Zakalwe said:
Whenever I'm playing these kinds of games I hope for the dialogue to do something like this:

"well, if no else is going to say it I will. Zombies."
"Zombies? Yeh right, zombies aren't real!"
"OK man, if they're not real just close your eyes and those thing outside will disappear. Me? I've seen enough zombie movies to know that stocking up on anything that can bust a skull open with the least amount of effort is probably a good idea."

What do you think?

(Same goes for other mythical beings: vampires, werewolves, etc...)
Click to expand...
So basically you want a "This is the End" kinda tone instead of a actual story about how humans react when forced to survive.
 
Zombine said:
My thoughts echo yours.
Still not 100% sure it's real. The character might have had a mental break. It'll be touched upon in the September issue.
Click to expand...
I've seen the first two seasons and read the first like 15 issues. Maybe I've gotten the best out of the Walking Dead.

Man, as someone who simply adores zombies it sure is hard to find good shit. I'm not even a hard ass about what a zombie is! To me The Last of Us is a type of zombie story, and I'm in love with it.
Slayven said:
There are no superhero comics in the Watchman universe instead western, pirate, and horror comics became popular.
Click to expand...
Sounds like my kind of place (Except for all the terrible shit that happens there).
 
It's just plain weird and hard to believe that something that comes up as fiction in a universe ends up happening for real on similar terms.

Unless the myths and stories are then discovered to be based on true happenings in the past. But that doesn't always work.
 
Horseticuffs said:
I've seen the first two seasons and read the first like 15 issues. Maybe I've gotten the best out of the Walking Dead.

Man, as someone who simply adores zombies it sure is hard to find good shit. I'm not even a hard ass about what a zombie is! To me The Last of Us is a type of zombie story, and I'm in love with it.

Sounds like my kind of place (Except for all the terrible shit that happens there).
Click to expand...

I still enjoy the book quite a lot. You should read through the end of the prison arc at the very least. There has only been one arc so far that didn't sit with me, but it had a greater overall purpose for the series.
 
Zakalwe said:
I think it's pretty ridiculous regardless. :p



How does what I want prevent this?
Click to expand...
With dialogue like that it's hard to establish a more serious and fearful tone instead of right off the bat establishing one because humans are completely oblivious to what's happening. The less knowledgeable your characters are about the current threat the easier it is for them and therefor the audience to be afraid. It's basic storytelling principle dude.
 
OP, watch Charlie Brooker's Dead Set. Its funny, terrifying and all the characters are aware exactly what Zombies are.
 
Read Newsflesh Trilogy novels. It's bassicaly about a world where the zombie plague exploded and everybody ignored the warning because of how ridiculous the concept was. The sole exceptions were nerds who immiedietely recognized that they were facing zombies and acted upon it. They managed to convince enough people and essentially saved the world by somewhat containing the spead. So the world in the books is the one where bloggers are the only trusted news source, because traditional media failed so epically.

Great series:)
 
Crossing Eden said:
With dialogue like that it's hard to establish a more serious and fearful tone instead of right off the bat establishing one because humans are completely oblivious to what's happening. The less knowledgeable your characters are about the current threat the easier it is for them and therefor the audience to be afraid. It's basic storytelling principle dude.
Click to expand...

Huh, first time hearing about that.

I thought the idea is to make something interesting. Just because it make things easier doesn't mean it can't be done well.

Besides, horror has a tendency to have stuff with common sense being thrown away.
 
Yeah, I does kind of annoy me in TWD, compared to something like TLoU where they've obviously tried to make it not just another zombie game, but the names are for the specific types of zombies.

I'd like more zombie media that's actually set in our universe where the idea of zombies has been around for a very long time. Bugs me when it's treated like this thing that nobody could have ever imagined.
 
AdrianWerner said:
Read Newsflesh Trilogy novels. It's bassicaly about a world where the zombie plague exploded and everybody ignored the warning because of how ridiculous the concept was. The sole exceptions were nerds who immiedietely recognized that they were facing zombies and acted upon it. They managed to convince enough people and essentially saved the world by somewhat containing the spead. So the world in the books is the one where bloggers are the only trusted news source, because traditional media failed so epically.

Great series:)
Click to expand...
That's a really fun concept.
 
Boss Doggie said:
Huh, first time hearing about that.

I thought the idea is to make something interesting. Just because it make things easier doesn't mean it can't be done well.

Besides, horror has a tendency to have stuff with common sense being thrown away.
Click to expand...
Well the OP is talking about already established series that have done the idea well, like walking dead.
 
Because "zombie" is a silly word, yet many zombie movies only use them as a symbolic backdrop for whatever theme they want to present (for Romero it was consumerism). Zombies truly are the most pretentious of all monsters.
 
To be fair, the concept of zombies have existed well before they were called zombies or were differentiated from other creatures. So there are lots of different things you can call them.
 
That's why I like The Strain.

TV spoilers (don't reply to this post with book spoilers, please)
Vampire mythology is a thing, but since the "vampires" in The Strain take more after leeches/mosquitos - people didn't make the vampire connection initially.
 
akira28 said:
The biggest thing about zombies is that instinctive fear of how "wrong" it is. If zombies were old hat and everyone was like "eh, just aim for the head and try not to get any in your mouth or eyes." the shock value is cut to a third, and you just have to step up and be a bad ass. It would just be another shitty part of life you had to deal with, like muggers, pedophiles, and telemarketers.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is true. The term zombies is just a blanket term for the undead in fiction but not all zombies are the same. It would actually make the story more interesting as you watch people do what they would think to do normally but fail miserably. Zombies can be whatever you want them to be.

People would only think they know what to do.
 
Crossing Eden said:
With dialogue like that it's hard to establish a more serious and fearful tone instead of right off the bat establishing one because humans are completely oblivious to what's happening. The less knowledgeable your characters are about the current threat the easier it is for them and therefor the audience to be afraid. It's basic storytelling principle dude.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with this.

With a little experience your characters are going to be following zombie lore rules regardless of whether or not zombie lore exists in your universe. If they're zomibes in every single way but the name, then omitting the name isn't going to cause more fear for the audience.

Scaring the audience isn't just about putting a monster on screen, it's about scripting a sequence of events that inspired terror. Having a character aware of the concept of zombies wouldn't make it any harder to show them terrified (and therefore affect the audience in the intended way).

genjiZERO said:
To be fair, the concept of zombies have existed well before they were called zombies or were differentiated from other creatures. So there are lots of different things you can call them.
Click to expand...

Sure, but most of these stories are set in contemporary worlds where everything BUT the notion of zombies seems to be identical (video game restrictions cause by mechanics aside).

figadapaura said:
Yeah, I does kind of annoy me in TWD, compared to something like TLoU where they've obviously tried to make it not just another zombie game, but the names are for the specific types of zombies.

I'd like more zombie media that's actually set in our universe where the idea of zombies has been around for a very long time. Bugs me when it's treated like this thing that nobody could have ever imagined.
Click to expand...

Exactly. TLoU decides to ignore the word but it works because their "zombies" are something slightly different. Same with 28 Days Later which is pretty much a zombie film but it changes the concept in a way that is different enough for them to be referred to as something else without it seeming contrived.
 
In Zombi U, there's definitely "zombie lore" - you learn about
the first zombies and John Dee who created a prophecy of the apocalypse 400 years ago. Many people believed the prophecy but most of the population were skeptics.
 
Forkball said:
Because "zombie" is a silly word, yet many zombie movies only use them as a symbolic backdrop for whatever theme they want to present (for Romero it was consumerism). Zombies truly are the most pretentious of all monsters.
Click to expand...

Romero doesn't use the word Zombie. Before night of the living dead, popular fiction referred to these type of creatures as ghouls. What Romero did was create a whole new spin on a ghoul. Romero claims the first time he ever heard someone refer to them as zombies was well after he had released the movie. It was a review in a Latin American newspaper. Romero always refers to them as the living dead.
 
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