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[Phades]

sigh...I really loathe to have to link to it but here is the piece. I really hate that this is where its going and unfortunately now there is going to be a large group of conservatives/fox news watchers etc that are going to be jumping on this bandwagon for their agenda. This is where the scorched earth take the industry wanted to take on this is heading.

A pm with the link would have been more than sufficient. I appriciate the effort you put forth with that. It is just hard for me to believe that something as (in my opinion) benign as video gaming has to be lumped in part with any agenda driven group, belief, or organization in order to attempt to strengthen their point instead of letting the point stand on their own.

Folks use gaming as a means to escape that sort of thing, not join it. Anyhow, thanks again.

 

[BetaTeaser]

This whole thing is turning out to be a crazy cesspool of emotions, uneducated stances, hate speech, all over a piece of entertainment.

Growing up gay, flamboyantly so until I was 25 or so (picture the kid Larry buys a sewing machine for in Curb) in the late 80s early 90s was hell.

I get where Anita, Zoe and all defenders of how women should be represented in video games are coming from.

Hell, as comfortable as we think we are with gay couples, we're still characterized as emotional comedy caricatures.

Seeing how Jack hammed up homosexuality as a comedic trait for will and grace hurt, and the gay couple on Modern Family kind of offends me too. Hell, they only ever kissed on screen once the whole time that show was on.

And I always considered Six Feet Under a godsend for portraying a gay couple as a gay couple and not comic relief.

So I know how much it hurts to see yourself portrayed poorly in any sort of media you enjoy.

The good thing about where video games are heading is that they are incredibly easier to create than they ever were.

Why these feminists are spending so much time and energy making videos about how poorly women are represented and not actively create something to make female characters they would enjoy, is beyond me.

They've identified a problem. Work on doing something about it. That GameJam Zoe supposedly interrupted seemed like a great idea.

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

 

[Glass Shark]

The games press at large seems content to disregard and alienate self-identified "gamers," and yet many of those same "gamers" get worked up into a frenzy about every little thing the press says and keeps feeding them clicks and attention. I mean, we have entire threads here that essentially exist to critique and nitpick reviews of games. It's madness, and it seems destined to go on for as long as there is a games press.

 

[APF]

im not arguing what you say im arguing, im just saying that you shouldnt expect "ethics" or "professionalism" from a random youtuber who names themselves "shortfatotaku"

Which means we should regard it with even more skepticism and caution than we would otherwise, not that we should regard it with the same or more credibility as if it came from a professional outfit.

 

[Jarate]

The games press at large seems content to disregard and alienate self-identified "gamers," and yet many of those same "gamers" get worked up into a frenzy about every little thing the press says and keeps feeding them clicks and attention. I mean, we have entire threads here that essentially exist to critique and nitpick reviews of games. It's madness, and it seems destined to go on for as long as there is a games press.

Journalism, just like any public medium is ok to critique. There is nothing wrong with nitpicking or critiquing publicly available media. There are obviously some crazies, but that's one of the flaws of the internet, you give everyone a voice to critique and make comments directly to said item.

There is nothing inherently bad about critiquing things that are put into a public medium.

 

[Glass Shark]

There is nothing inherently bad about critiquing things that are put into a public medium.

Totally agree, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But if people want to show the press that they don't like what they're doing, the only guaranteed way is to impact the bottom line. To do that, you have to deprive them of the attention they need to make money.

 

[Brakke]

Why these feminists are spending so much time and energy making videos about how poorly women are represented and not actively create something to make female characters they would enjoy, is beyond me.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."? The change Anita at least wants to see in the world is people thinking more critically about the games they play and the games they make. So she thinks critically about games. Checks out.

 

[Vlade]

Why these feminists are spending so much time and energy making videos about how poorly women are represented and not actively create something to make female characters they would enjoy, is beyond me.

They've identified a problem. Work on doing something about it. That GameJam Zoe supposedly interrupted seemed like a great idea.

I'm not sure how to even respond.
I'll go with:

People like videos too, they are a completely legitimate thing to make.

 

[Jarate]

Which means we should regard it with even more skepticism and caution than we would otherwise, not that we should regard it with the same or more credibility as if it came from a professional outfit.

y-yeah...?

I already told you that the video is trash. But people should have expecatiotns for professionals, That's why they are professionals as opposed to random youtubers. It's like being upset at a gamefaqs post that would cover this stuff. It's silly to do.

My main point is there's obviously a story here that people want to hear about. People are clamoring to said stuff. If the games press actually covered this entire ordeal objectively and well, then these people wouldn't have big voices in this entire ordeal.

 

[JABEE]

It's easy to express those concerns but nutjobs like IA and Mr. Baldwin are going to get more attention and press because they're... nutjobs.

Legitimate concerns over reviews and previews in the press have been around for ever in Video Games... but now that the main focus of ire is rooted firmly in a campaign of slut shaming it's gained quite a lot more traction. I wonder why.

I think it has something to do with them being good punching bags to rally people around. They control the conversation, because these jerks are the stand-in for "the gamer."

There are very few level articles or videos to read presenting reasonable disagreements to the hate-filled and hand-waving being done by some of the games press. No dissent OP-Eds are being published on any website other than some conservative pundit's website that just wants to hop in on this controversy to score a few points.

 

[MikeXXIeaf]

When people call for more investigative journalism in gaming, what exactly are they asking for? There's nothing to investigate most of the time so these writers push fluff articles. I feel like this growing trend of attacking social issues within the industry stems from writers just not knowing what else to cover.

 

[Jarate]

Totally agree, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But if people want to show the press that they don't like what they're doing, the only guaranteed way is to impact the bottom line. To do that, you have to deprive them of the attention they need to make money.

I personally agree with this, but it's not a reasonable to endeavor to expect this out of people. It's like Howard Stern and Bill O'Reilly being popular. People like to listen to lightning rods I guess.

 

[JABEE]

Totally agree, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But if people want to show the press that they don't like what they're doing, the only guaranteed way is to impact the bottom line. To do that, you have to deprive them of the attention they need to make money.

You would think that people wouldn't need to organize a boycott for the gaming press to answer for their code of ethics and the subsequent enforcement of that code. It really shouldn't require a momentous press/gaming stand-off that could hurt the press's financial survival in order to see changes. That seems like more of a last resort. Can't people just ask? Do we have to force the "just trust me"s of the world to answer for their system? Can't we just ask for this discussion and have the other side understand the validity of the arguments made?

 

[marrec]

I think it has something to do with them being good punching bags to rally people around. They control the conversation, because these jerks are the stand-in for "the gamer."

There are very few level articles or videos to read presenting reasonable disagreements to the hate-filled and hand-waving being done by some of the games press. No dissent OP-Eds are being published on any website other than some conservative pundit's website that just wants to hop in on this controversy to score a few points.

The problem is that the people who are being most vocal are arguing from a poisoned well. The hashtag "GamerGate" is associated with the "5 Guys" bullshit and cannot be extracted from that. Whatever movement towards transparency or legitimacy that would come out of this would be mired in the original campaign of vileness that started everything.

Again, video games journalism has been under scrutiny for a very long time. Yet now their fiercest attacks are only being lobbed from a position of moral inferiority? Of course it's going to be laughed off and of course the journalists are going to feel unfairly attacked.

 

[daegan]

While everyone's attention is on this, an actually interesting situation has come to light again because of Destiny: essentially reviewers are getting copies on Monday so can't post a release-day review.

And to me, this is no big deal; but it's amazing and kind of ridiculous that anyone would plan to review an online product without seeing how it actually stands up to being played.

 

[Glass Shark]

Can't we just ask for this discussion and have the other side understand the validity of the arguments made?

In an ideal world, sure. But right now, neither the press or the organizers of the #GamerGate movement seem interested in discussion. And as the press decide to abandon "gamers," what other choice do "gamers" have than to abandon the press as well? Continuing to visit their sites and read their articles is an admission that we want or need the gaming press regardless of their behavior. If that's the case, the press holds the power and the battle is already won.

 

[unbias]

When people call for more investigative journalism in gaming, what exactly are they asking for? There's nothing to investigate most of the time so these writers push fluff articles. I feel like this growing trend of attacking social issues within the industry stems from writers just not knowing what else to cover.

Ya, that is the problem. An industry needs the press, for when stuff happens(gameindustry.biz for example) but there probably isnt enough there to make adequate amount of revenue for most sites. So then you start covering stuff outside of the medium, and something that is cultural politics and coverage, and they do it all in op-ed or worse yet in editorials, and then you get the problems we have, where positive change is impossible, because there are a few who are in charge of the message bringing the fight, more exclusively, to the consumer. All the while the publications not caught up in this are lost in the shuffle and all the attention is on those who are perpetuating "it's the consumers fault" mentality.

 

[BrendanSinclair]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."? The change Anita at least wants to see in the world is people thinking more critically about the games they play and the games they make. So she thinks critically about games. Checks out.

I've been lurking on NeoGAF for about nine years, had an account for six of them. This is my first post, and it's basically just a standing ovation for every Brakke post I've seen in this thread. I always thought I'd finally post in order to offer some sort of insight or make a valuable point on a discussion, but nope. It's just this. Salute.

 

[Deitus]

You would think that people wouldn't need to organize a boycott for the gaming press to answer for their code of ethics and the subsequent enforcement of that code. It really shouldn't require a momentous press/gaming stand-off that could hurt the press's financial survival in order to see changes. That seems like more of a last resort. Can't people just ask? Do we have to force the "just trust me"s of the world to answer for their system? Can't we just ask for this discussion and have the other side understand the validity of the arguments made?

You're not wrong. But then when antagonistic click-bait articles score lots of hits for their respective sites, it can send a mixed message. We are saying with our words that we don't want this type of behavior from the games media. But with our clicks we are saying "these are the types of articles that I will read, and return to multiple times to post angry messages in the comments."

And ultimately our clicks are what pay the bills for them, not our words. As long as we continue to financially support this content, it's not going to go away.

 

[Ponn]

The people generalizing all gamers, or trying to paint an ideology against a very specific type of person, are not looking for a discussion, they are talking to their friends and social circle. Those types of articles you are talking about, to me, is nothing more then preaching to the choir. Expecting the people who write like this to change, is like expecting Hanity to stop misrepresenting democrats idea's. What needs to happen is the clicks need to go away, which is happening, just in social media(youtube, twitter, facebook, and ect) which I dont think will result in anything better happening. A industry without a press is a scary industry, so hopefully Kotaku is very serious about conflicts of interest and what not, because a 90 billion dollar industry needs at least a few publications playing watch dog.

Agreed. As much as i've disliked the antics coming from them for years now they have a place. To me some issues that could help would be absolving this direct line of connection that exists between the industry, media and consumers. Sure it can have some benefits but its also toxic and has been at least a tool for grooming consumers as seen surrounding the Xbox One reveal. Also the whole making them look like rockstars or celebs is a bit annoying and makes people more impressionable.

A pm with the link would have been more than sufficient. I appriciate the effort you put forth with that. It is just hard for me to believe that something as (in my opinion) benign as video gaming has to be lumped in part with any agenda driven group, belief, or organization in order to attempt to strengthen their point instead of letting the point stand on their own.

Folks use gaming as a means to escape that sort of thing, not join it. Anyhow, thanks again.

Agreed especially with bolded. The only thing keeping me flipping the bird to everyone and saying fuck off from gaming with all your agendas is the fact that I do agree with the points being raised about gender equality (heck while we are at race equality) in games and the concerted effort to trash my hobbies name because of a group of people that exist in all cultures, not just gaming. It's just unfortunately for the most vocal blind to all but their singular focused agendas there is no middle ground.

The games press at large seems content to disregard and alienate self-identified "gamers," and yet many of those same "gamers" get worked up into a frenzy about every little thing the press says and keeps feeding them clicks and attention. I mean, we have entire threads here that essentially exist to critique and nitpick reviews of games. It's madness, and it seems destined to go on for as long as there is a games press.

We actually agree on this. When all is said and done after those in the media that slammed gamers and painted them as a whole to be shamed and looked down upon as they ran out the door they will come right back. And gamers will just "meh" and carry on like nothing happened because its not worth the effort. Again as I said above, toxic relationship.

 

[Jarate]

I've been lurking on NeoGAF for about nine years, had an account for six of them. This is my first post, and it's basically just a standing ovation for every Brakke post I've seen in this thread. I always thought I'd finally post in order to offer some sort of insight or make a valuable point on a discussion, but nope. It's just this. Salute.

This is a single 9 year plan for Brakke to pat himself on the back

 

[unbias]

While everyone's attention is on this, an actually interesting situation has come to light again because of Destiny: essentially reviewers are getting copies on Monday so can't post a release-day review.

And to me, this is no big deal; but it's amazing and kind of ridiculous that anyone would plan to review an online product without seeing how it actually stands up to being played.

It does make you wonder how much faith they have in their product. While there is no moral obligation to let the press review a game prior to a product being launched, it most definitely makes me skeptical on their confidence on said product.

 

[Flachmatuch]

When people call for more investigative journalism in gaming, what exactly are they asking for? There's nothing to investigate most of the time so these writers push fluff articles. I feel like this growing trend of attacking social issues within the industry stems from writers just not knowing what else to cover.

"Journalism" in gaming is a part of the general marketing/PR arm of the industry. It is overwhelmingly financed by the industry and it is in many ways controlled by it. It's chief task is to *deliver ads to customers* (its other tasks, like defending the general "integrity" of the industry or ideologising its actions stem from this one). That is the main role of "gaming journalism". BTW, that is also the main role of most of what's called "journalism" too. (A bit ot, but the "professionalism" ethos is a direct result of this kind of specialised subordination.)

People do not understand this when they become gaming (or other) journalists, even though the fact that their salaries are ultimately paid by advertisers should be a hint. (And honestly, anyone smart and interested enough to understand this in their twenties at this young age will not become a "gaming journalist".) They don't understand but they somehow see that this crap shouldn't be their job, so as you said, they're looking for something else, hence this crap. But of course unless they see their own role in the wider industry (and society) they'll be stuck on this superficial level - and the only reasonable responses are to accept this and just do the work or leave the industry and maybe become a real journalist somehow. You can't consciously remain a Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo or EA or Activision-sponsored marketer and also write seriously about the general effects and social role etc of the industry because that *would* make you criticise *all* of the large gaming-related corporations in a radical way. And these corporations won't sponsor this kind of critique.

 

[Frog-fu]

The video being discussed is yet another example of baseless accusations coming from source that is at best dubious and at worst misogynist.

How would it be misogynist when the research was done by a woman, as stated in the video?

 

[marrec]

How would it be misogynist when the research was done by a woman, as stated in the video?

Gender does not preclude someone from being misogynist.

 

[Glass Shark]

While everyone's attention is on this, an actually interesting situation has come to light again because of Destiny: essentially reviewers are getting copies on Monday so can't post a release-day review.

It's slightly off-topic, but it does bring up an interesting point that is relevant to this discussion — it seems more and more developers and publishers are eschewing the press in favor of controlling the entire story about their games. There have been a lot more instances in the past 12 months of review copies being held back, and not necessarily for fear of bad reviews. And look at the stuff Blizzard and Riot are doing with their in-house content that is as good or better than anything coming out of gaming publications.

Here's the scary part: at this stage of the game, I'd almost rather all my info come from the marketing and PR teams of Activision or Ubisoft or whoever than needlessly filtered through a rewording from a major game news site. That's perhaps a bigger threat to the games press than this latest drama.

 

[Frog-fu]

Gender does not preclude someone from being misogynist.

Granted, but were you aware of the fact a woman did the research before I brought it up?

 

[unbias]

Gender does not preclude someone from being misogynist.

I agree, but if you are going to use that word, you should be able to back it up, and it's a hard one to actually back up. It seems instead of people using the word that it could actually be considered(sexist) people go for the low hanging fruit or trying to use the most inflammatory word, to try and make their talking point more right. As someone who thought that video was shit, using misogyny to describe everything is the equivalent of saying "liberal bias in the media" it is the same mentality to clamp that down on what you dont like.

 

[marrec]

Granted, but were you aware of the fact a woman did the research before I brought it up?

Absolutely. The information is included in the video as well as the reddit post accompanying it.

 

[Vlade]

How would it be misogynist when the research was done by a woman, as stated in the video?

In the whole video, the only relevant point was that the IGF might be crooked. even then there is a lot of stuff that "we all know" that got us there.

The rest he seems to think that saying the research was done by a woman validates the research and his point.

Do we have a thread for how crooked the IGF totally obviously is?

 

[JABEE]

In an ideal world, sure. But right now, neither the press or the organizers of the #GamerGate movement seem interested in discussion. And as the press decide to abandon "gamers," what other choice do "gamers" have than to abandon the press as well? Continuing to visit their sites and read their articles is an admission that we want or need the gaming press regardless of their behavior. If that's the case, the press holds the power and the battle is already won.

It's really annoying that this "Gamergate" crap has taken over the conversation that people have wanted to have for a long time. It's almost as if the only way to be heard now is to shout expletives at someone or to write some scathing hit piece on the "gamer problem" using "gamer" caricatures as the image head with details about how "the gamer" is a vicious shit-flinger that hates and abuses women.

It's weird how this discussion can so quickly escalated to articles that read and look like war propaganda. There really shouldn't be a war going on. It's frustrating to look at how this has all gone.

 

[Rannta]

Is this a legitimate thing? This shit is not a good look if it is.

WOW. There is no end to this. But of course. The gaming press is only interested about the "harrasment" and the "victims".

 

[Vlade]

It's really annoying that this "Gamergate" crap has taken over the conversation that people have wanted to have for a long time. It's almost as if the only way to be heard now is to shout expletives at someone or to write some scathing hit piece on the "gamer problem" using "gamer" caricatures as the image head with details about how "the gamer" is a vicious shit-flinger that hates and abuses women.

It's weird how this discussion can so quickly escalated to articles that read and look like war propaganda. There really shouldn't be a war going on. It's frustrating to look at how this has all gone.

I would definitely like to pull these issues apart. It's just less fun to attack the IGF/GDC/someonewhomightdefendthemselveslegally on a flimsy basis where we seem happy to make villains of the people tangentially involved that "we all know" are icons of baddery on that same flimsy basis.

edit:

WOW. There is no end to this. But of course. The gaming press is only interested about the "harrasment" and the "victims".

exactly why the issues should be de-conflated.

 

[RageBot]

It's disheartening to see someone post "Finally, a video that takes a reasonable stance on all this stuff!" along with a link to an InternetAristocrat rant. Like... how can I express my concerns without being lumped in with nutjobs like IA and Adam Baldwin?

If people lump you in the same pit with other people, just because you share some thoughts, these people aren't the type that you should bother expressing your concerns to.

 

[jschreier]

I am very rapidly losing interest in GamerGate -- which is too smothered in misogyny and nastiness to ever accomplish anything -- but would be happy to help redirect this thread toward real issues and concerns in video game journalism, which I am always interested in discussing.

 

[Frog-fu]

Absolutely. The information is included in the video as well as the reddit post accompanying it.

Then I find it interesting you're so open to dismissing this as the findings of a misogynistic woman. What about the other numerous women in support of #GamerGate that have spoken out against detractors and go ignored because they don't fit the narrative that is being spun, like this woman for example? I might be misunderstanding you here, so tell me if I am.

 

[Shinta]

I am very rapidly losing interest in GamerGate -- which is too smothered in misogyny and nastiness to ever accomplish anything -- but would be happy to help redirect this thread toward real issues and concerns in video game journalism, which I am always interested in discussing.

Not to sound flippant, but Patricia Hernandez posted an article today asking me to meet the guy who spent 7 months killing everyone in Fallout 3. Before I clicked, I wondered if she knew the guy and was just posting it as publicity for a friend.

Stephen's own stated ethics list, which he stated was important to him about a week ago, was violated and that was never addressed. And I know it's not at all your job to address that. And that's just one tiny example that's honestly not very consequential to me, but your boss said it matters to him. Buried beneath all the muck are real concerns that people have.

My other request to you the other day in that post was just for more even-handed coverage that showed more of a diversity of gender and political opinion, instead of pushing a singular agenda so hard. That is a legitimate concern. Media Matters and other Media watchdog groups measure frequency of stories based on tone, subject matter and compare them for fairness in coverage.

And I still think it's worth noting that you guys posted links to articles that really unfairly promoted extreme generalization of insults about gamers, but no articles posting anything countering that opinion, or even apologizing for it. That was not really an okay series of articles as it promotes the exact kind of hate and false stereotypes I thought you guys were trying to lessen. I honestly thought that would have been addressed a long time ago now. But nothing from anyone on Kotaku's staff. Not one of the 15 people that work there felt the need to offer a counter opinion about the word "gamer" or about any social agenda articles you guys have been publishing for years.

I hope you always strive to find real concerns that people have, even if hidden under some nonsense. Lots of Kotaku's own coverage has great pieces hidden under nonsense.

As far as this thread, the one actually about this was locked extremely prematurely so people have no place else to discuss it. And people are tired of discussion being cut off.

 

[jschreier]

Not to sound flippant, but Patricia Hernandez posted an article today asking me to meet the guy who spent 7 months killing everyone in Fallout 3. Before I clicked, I wondered if she knew the guy and we just posting it as publicity for a friend.

Stephen's own stated ethics list, which he stated was important to him about a week ago, was violated and that was never addressed. And I know it's not at all your job to address that. And that's just one tiny example that's honestly not very consequential to me, but your boss said it matters to him. Buried beneath all the muck are real concerns that people have.

My other request to you the other day in that post was just for more even-handed coverage that showed more of a diversity of gender and political opinion, instead of pushing a singular agenda so hard. That is a legitimate concern. Media Matters and other Media watchdog groups measure frequency of stories based on tone, subject matter and compare them for fairness in coverage.

I hope you always strive to find real concerns that people have, even if hidden under some nonsense. Lots of Kotaku's own coverage has great pieces hidden under nonsense.

As far as this thread, the one actually about this was locked extremely prematurely so people have no place else to discuss it. And people are tired of discussion being cut off.

Stephen did address it, though. Didn't you see this? http://kotaku.com/a-brief-note-about-the-continued-discussion-about-kotak-1627041269

He also responded to plenty of comments on there: http://kotaku.com/im-not-sure-which-sources-youre-looking-at-but-questio-1627098933

While it bums me out that this particular incident may have hurt readers' trust in the site, I think Stephen has handled it perfectly.

As for your other request, well, we always want to publish as many angles and perspectives as possible, but I haven't seen much from the "anti-SJW" crowd that isn't either A) totally vile, B) someone saying they don't want us to cover progressive issues because those issues are "annoying," or C) a granular complaint about, say, something Anita Sarkeesian said, voiced not for the sake of discussion but to discredit Sarkeesian's work.

If there's a perspective or story you think we should be covering that doesn't fit into those groups, do let me know.

 

[Shinta]

Stephen did address it, though. Didn't you see this? http://kotaku.com/a-brief-note-about-the-continued-discussion-about-kotak-1627041269

He also responded to plenty of comments on there: http://kotaku.com/im-not-sure-which-sources-youre-looking-at-but-questio-1627098933

While it bums me out that this particular incident may have hurt readers' trust in the site, I think Stephen has handled it perfectly.

As for your other request, well, we always want to publish as many angles and perspectives as possible, but I haven't seen much from the "anti-SJW" crowd that isn't either A) totally vile, B) someone saying they don't want us to cover progressive issues because those issues are "annoying," or C) a granular complaint about, say, something Anita Sarkeesian said, voiced not for the sake of discussion but to discredit Sarkeesian's work.

If there's a perspective or story you think we should be covering that doesn't fit into those groups, do let me know.

I didn't see. That, I will definitely read right now.

As far as stories I think you guys could pursue, I will think on that and get back to you sometime.

This is too old to be relevant now, but this is just a tiny bit of the kind of content I wish I saw everywhere in equal proportion to Anita's videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek

It's just fair criticism. A year old now, but yeah. I found it on youtube without really looking too hard a long time ago. People would freak out if you posted something like this though, even though it's a woman. I can't imagine a male critic could really get away with it. I've seen Thunderfoot taken down as some supposed misogynist as well, when he is first and foremost a rationalist obsessed with science and logic. I'm not even really a fan of that guy, but I saw a couple of his videos that seemed to make pretty good points. It's true that he can add in some negative stuff about her budget that hurts his videos. Still, Thunderfoot was on The Young Turks, which is a pretty liberal online news show talking with Anna, and they don't seem to hate him.

I think organizing a conversation between people would be neat, like the FFVII letters, but a back and forth debate about topical gender issues. That way you guys could lay out some ground rules and see what is being written.

Even better than bringing in outside people though, would be if you guys just took a tiny bit more of a critical perspective and looked at it skeptically yourselves. It shouldn't require specialists really. Fact check it.

 

[robovanburen]

Buried beneath all the muck are real concerns that people have.

The muck: real concerns ratio seems to be getting worse. I'm seeing very few instances of people voicing specific concerns/demands and a lot of instances of "oh you have GOT to check out this Breitbart article!"

 

[mcrommert]

I am very rapidly losing interest in GamerGate -- which is too smothered in misogyny and nastiness to ever accomplish anything -- but would be happy to help redirect this thread toward real issues and concerns in video game journalism, which I am always interested in discussing.

I disagree that it can't accomplish anything, but I do see it devolving into screaming matches (which it has already gone to in many ways). I do want to thank you for the fact that you have actually tried to engage with the community and take seriously the issues that have been brought up. From your twitter convs i bet some of your friendships have been frayed with other writers, but I do appreciate what you have been trying to do.

 

[SeventhSon]

If there's a perspective or story you think we should be covering that doesn't fit into those groups, do let me know.

Here's developer Daniel Vavra on twitter

https://twitter.com/DanielVavra

Seem that everyone is scared to write about the real subject not to be accused of misogyny as well. This is how few can terrorize many.

And I will tell you why. Everyone (me included) is scared, that if he raises his voice, media will not write about his game. #GamerGate

Reach out for an interview or article on his perspective.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I am very rapidly losing interest in GamerGate -- which is too smothered in misogyny and nastiness to ever accomplish anything -- but would be happy to help redirect this thread toward real issues and concerns in video game journalism, which I am always interested in discussing.

Not sure what you've been reading, but looking at the GamerGate tag on twitter I'm seeing none of this misogyny you're talking about.

 

[APF]

y-yeah...?

I already told you that the video is trash. But people should have expecatiotns for professionals, That's why they are professionals as opposed to random youtubers. It's like being upset at a gamefaqs post that would cover this stuff. It's silly to do.

My main point is there's obviously a story here that people want to hear about. People are clamoring to said stuff. If the games press actually covered this entire ordeal objectively and well, then these people wouldn't have big voices in this entire ordeal.

The actual point is, if you're going to tell me to ignore the tone of a random youtuber in order to listen to their argument, I'm going to question why that's not something we should do for established professionals who also have issues with tone.

 

[BennyBlanco]

this is the kind of stuff i've been seeing on twitter. it's getting ugly.

 

[securitypigeon]

this is the kind of stuff i've been seeing on twitter. it's getting ugly.

Ugh, the internet is the worst place.

 

[Shinta]

this is the kind of stuff i've been seeing on twitter. it's getting ugly.

That could be a good story. I say that sincerely. Why not? It's interesting.

Even more importantly, it seems to be resulting from the "gamer" articles Kotaku linked to. Not Kotaku exclusively, but it was on the site.

 

[MacNille]

Here's developer Daniel Vavra on twitter

https://twitter.com/DanielVavra

Seem that everyone is scared to write about the real subject not to be accused of misogyny as well. This is how few can terrorize many.

And I will tell you why. Everyone (me included) is scared, that if he raises his voice, media will not write about his game. #GamerGate

Reach out for an interview or article on his perspective.

Do it. I love his works and we deserve to hear what he wants to say.

 

[RadarScope1]

Dear god I just read that Breitbart thing. Shit, man. I'm just so bummed out by all of this.

 

[Shosai]

This is a good example of something wholly unrelated to ethical standards in game journalism.

You don't think the games press played a role in perpetuating these views?