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Phil Spencer on indie parity clause "I want people to feel like they're first class"
- Thread starter Kayant
- Start date
Yaphett Kotto
Member
How are you making anyone feel first class when your policy is keeping you from getting certain indie games?
This is so fucking backwards. lol
This is so fucking backwards. lol
Infernostew
Member
Loved Sealab 2021!
But he still has so many blazer/game t-shirt combos to show you.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
But surely it's Microsoft's fault for being so slow in getting their shit together in regards to indies. These people have families to feed, lives to live. They can't just hold off on releasing their game on all platforms because one platform holder twiddled their thumbs for too long.
Uno Venova
Banned
do you guys think he will change it if I put a spencer banner on my avatar
I still think they havent really understood that they increasingly are not in a position to strong arm indies anymore.
If the gap continues to increase Indie devs will say fuck Xbox we going for PC/PS4. Then there wont be a plane for Xbox users to be "first class" on.
That's the bed they made though. They are an after-thought now. They should be courting them back, not making rules to scare small developers into delaying the launch of their titles. Developers that rely on the return of their one game to eat and survive.
Spencer is doing this to Indie Devs, because he thinks he can get away with bullying them.
Pristine_Condition
Member
When you hink of all the indies they could've helped out with the $400 Million they gave to the NFL it's even more abhorrent.
semiconscious
Member
'to hell with reality! we will dictate terms!'...
never change, ms
...
never change, ms
...But MS will just ignore their policy when a game is a hit and they want to get on that.
It's a power play bullying tactic for games that aren't big yet to intimidate them to sign with Xbox first because PlayStation and Nintendo have more open policies by default.
They want any indie that is interested in consoles to think: I need to go with Xbox first, to maximize the platforms I can be on.
It's sad. I am so close to getting an Xbox One tomorrow, and now I am seriously considering once again stepping back on principle. I cannot believe I am this close to getting an XBO and he had to say this shit.
But he was cool at one point bro, the old man WAS cool. He could still be cool! He just has to act his age!
It's not bullying small devs as they're the ones that would receive exceptions according to the quote in the OP since they would have difficulty with simultaneous releases. The point of having it at all is to protect xbox customers from business deals that would lead to games being released late on xbox for no other reason.
yes, that is the risk. but indies don't act as a block -- they're all independent. Realistically, I can't imagine MS sticking to this policy for the few very popular indie games anyway
Handy Fake
Member
I like how he stipulated the term "indie" when talking about parity clauses.
Night Angel
Member
Doesn't want to get them all mixed up.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Such a bs reason. The only ones they are fuckin over are the small indie devs. As if MS isn't going to make an exeption for games like No Man's Sky and the Withness. Hypocricy at it's finest.
But then still allowing them to engage in business deals that would give Xbox exclusive rights or timed exclusivity. What if Sony came out with the same policy? Are indie devs totally fucked then?
ultratruman
Banned
'...and that's hard to do with a second class console, which is why we need bullshit clauses.'
shinra-bansho
Member
Was I the only one who found the quote difficult to follow and make sense of? :s
It's late here so my brain just may not be functioning efficiently.
It's late here so my brain just may not be functioning efficiently.
But if the game isn't coming out because of other reasons, read Sony paying for exclusivity/helping with development, it wouldn't come to Xbox anyway. So the clause serves no purpose. It's just another waiver for them to get signed.
Impeccable
Member
I know I wouldn't feel first class with multi platform games that were better on a competing platform, indie or not. Thanks for having all of our backs, good guy Phil!
They should be welcoming every damn game with open arms. Late release or not.
As a console developer, having to jump through hoops to get your game on Xbox seems absurd when the platform is not the market leader in the slightest.
Currently they are not in the position to bully indies around just to appear less inferior to the competition. It's a straight up arbitrary hurdle and it fucks both developers and consumers.
I'm hoping more indies continue to give them the finger.
It's the Prisoner's Dilemma except that everyone knows what everyone else is doing.
The indie parity clause only works for Microsoft and isn't even more damaging than it is, is because Nintendo and Sony don't have one.
justsomeguy
Member
Except he explicitly says in the interview that if the company's too small to cope with that demand, they'll come to an agreement. Suggest you listen to the podcast to hear how he puts it, not really any hint of bullying in it - more trying to balance his need to put xbox front and centre vs. not screwing over small companies.
edit: Just to be clear... I'm picking issue with the terminology of "bullying the small guys" when he said that if it was "the small guys" there was a conversation to be had. *sigh*. IMO if the parity clause stops significant titles coming to XBox one then the work here isn't done, we need to do more.
Indie devs have said about a thousand times that the parity clause is extremely problematic.
BUT HEY WORKS FOR MS I GUESS IF MS SAYS IT THEY SURELY KNOW BETTER
Exploratory
Banned
You guys are acting as if ALL indie devs cannot produce two versions of the game at the same time.
Clearly the indie parity clause isn't in the best interest of the developers.
Yaphett Kotto
Member
Do they also have something "exclusive" to the Xbox platforms too in order to get the game onto their console?
And yea, the whole policy just screams control freak and is Microsoft's way of saying "we got x game first!!!!"
Prophet Steve
Member
I sure am feeling like a first class citizen when you refer to my country as a Tier 2 country.
so, to use the example, if you remove the actual first class, you can tell everyone economy class is the new first class.
coach is still coach regardless of what we want to call it.
also, if this kind of tactic and reasoning is on the hardware/software development side, it wouldn't be to outlandish to think this is also a tactic for previews and reviews...
coach is still coach regardless of what we want to call it.
also, if this kind of tactic and reasoning is on the hardware/software development side, it wouldn't be to outlandish to think this is also a tactic for previews and reviews...
TheExecutive
Member
So what is he saying about his console?
Interfectum
Member
Is this our outrage of the day?
Portugeezer
Member
edit never mind
that's because at face value it is a terrible clause, hence why MS try to work things out with smaller studios. Obviously we don't know the extent of the negotiations, but all your posts are fanboy crap so I'm guessing you don't care.
Yeah it's hard to make sense of.
I understand that. But why have it at all if that's the case? Why do you need to come to an agreement in the first place? No other company does this. It's just an extra step that accomplishes nothing.
Even if I retract the bully comment, it's still completely pointless.
If I have a game that has a deal with Sony, it's not coming to MS. If I have a game that's coming out later for MS, and has no dealing with Sony, I have to sign some waiver for no reason instead just making the damn game. I just don't see the purpose it serves but to make another thing for indie devs to deal with.
If only there was someone in the position at Microsoft for the Xbox devision that could change that terrible clause.
Night Angel
Member
So why would an indie dev choose to release late on xbox for no reason at all when they could really use the money from sales on the console? This is where your argument falls apart. Indie devs have legitimate reasons for only releasing on one platform at a time; they're not just pointing and laughing at MS for the hell of it.
The fact that MS is only really open to negotiating with the biggest indie games puts the lie to Spencer's attitude/comments on having a conversation. It's bullying, full stop. MS fucked up by not making their console the obvious choice for indie developers (or consumers), and they're making indie devs pay for those mistakes.
Ken Masters
Banned
He wore a Limbo shirt though, does that mean nothing?
Exploratory
Banned
Out of all the complaints about Xbox this is probably the worst. What would you rather it be called? It's just a word.
Anyway on topic I get what Phil is saying but it doesn't seem to be working. I don't think Xbox One gamers feel anymore like first class citizens as a result of this clause. On the other hand I don't know what indie developers release schedule would be like if they got rid of it. If Xbox always came second for most developers (they are in second place) than the clause would seem like a necessary evil.
Is this your first drive-by thread whine of the day?
Honestly if this is the kind of thing that's going to get in the way of your buying an Xbone then I can't see you ever buying one. This kind of bullshit is in Microsoft's corporate DNA. They will keep making these absurd and horrible business decisions until the end of the generation, because having made a third-rate product they don't have a choice in the matter.
SerTapTap
Member
There are plenty of indies that have flat out said "yep can't do Xbox One, parity clause". They're small, they're not able to make conscious or delay other versions. To pretend this is all hunky-dory and there's not tons of indie games actively being held from Xbox because of this is pure fantasy. Off the top of my head Assault Android Cactus, Octodad and Curve Digital in general have all mentioned they'd like to be on Xbox but parity clause makes it impractical/impossible for them at this time.
SkoomaSuckinSwit
Member
That's a romantic ideal, Phil.
But your console is getting smashed this generation by PS4.
"Beggars can't be choosers" as the saying goes.
With the competition having 2x the install base, you're gonna have to eat leftovers.
But your console is getting smashed this generation by PS4.
"Beggars can't be choosers" as the saying goes.
With the competition having 2x the install base, you're gonna have to eat leftovers.
Family Fry
Member
Does anyone have a list of indies who aren't developing because of the parity clause? Or just simply can't do it.
I know XB1 is missing android assault cactus because of it, are there any more specific to parity?
I know recently mimi productions cancelled the xbox one version of The Last Tinker due to low sales of the PS4 version.
I know XB1 is missing android assault cactus because of it, are there any more specific to parity?
I know recently mimi productions cancelled the xbox one version of The Last Tinker due to low sales of the PS4 version.
Or the Dos Equis man. Suave and sophisticated. .. and then he lets out this loud, noxious beer fart and everyone else at the table gets up and leaves. Not him though. He just sits there and blinks, unsure of his next move.
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