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Phil Spencer on indie parity clause "I want people to feel like they're first class"

Kayant

Member
Feb 25, 2014
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Q : Thoughts on parity clause and if there are plans for changes like ones recent announced(Kinectless and such)

Phil Spencer said:
"I actually don't get the question as much now anymore...I'll be honest, the thing I worry about is I look at all the people who buy an Xbox and invest their time and their money in Xbox One, and as millions of people own Xbox One I want people to feel like they're first class, because they are. When a third party game comes out it comes out on all platforms, at the same time and when indie games come out, I want them to come out and I want Xbox to feel like it's a first class citizen when an indie game launches. For me the parity thing is I own an Xbox one and I want to work for you to make sure that when great content launches, if it's coming to Xbox one and another platform... you kinda of get it at the same time as everybody else does.

That said, I have a lot of friends who run small indie studios, and I get that time lines around when... they just can't get both games done at the same time or all 3 games, 4 games depending on how many platforms they're supporting. So I was just saying let's have a conversation and it's worked. Today, I think we've done a good job working with the indies that had strict parity concerns. If it's just a dev issue for them but I don't want somebody to come and just think that am going to go do a special game on one platform and then I will get to the XB1 when I get to it.. because I don't think that's right because as Xbox one customers we want good games as they come out on both platforms but I also get that hey! for some guys they just can't afford the time to get both done. So we have just enter into the conversations with people as they are launching it and I feel pretty good about the plan.
Thanks to - http://www.xboxmad.net/x/pairity-prevents-xbox-owners-feeling-second-class.html

Timestamp - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2RG7TSLJI#t=1282

Upgrade to first class if old. I find this interesting considering the whole TR debate. PR going to PR I guess.
 

IAmRandom31

Banned
Aug 4, 2013
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PetriP-TNT

Member
Jul 13, 2007
21,470
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Finland
Oh we are just having a conversation.

In a dark alley.

With baseball bats.

It would be a shame if one of our "devs" would have to visit yours...
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Nov 24, 2012
8,444
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munich
Yeah but right now this clause just leads to indie games not coming to Xbox at all instead of coming to Xbox at the same time as Ps4.

I understand his point but many indie devs just don't have the ressources to put two versions out at the same time.
 

IAmRandom31

Banned
Aug 4, 2013
12,791
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Thats pretty much what he's saying when he says they've been encouraging indie developers to talk to them to work it through
A developer shouldn't have to converse with Microsoft to explain themselves.

Actually this sounds incredibly arrogant and ridiculous. Yeah, if a dev comes and talks to us then we MIGHT let him release the game on our system if it comes after the PS4 version. If they pat our back enough.

Whole thing is dumb to me.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
28,719
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Well I guess that's our confirmation that Spencer isn't just ambivalent towards the parity clause but actually thinks it's a good thing. If you needed any more proof that his shit stinks nearly as bad as Mattrick's, there it is.

Ironically, as long as the PS4 has a commanding lead over the Xbone the clause is going to make Xbone a third class citizen when it comes to indies.
 

Sir TapTap

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Jun 17, 2014
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Hope all those indies that aren't coming to Xbox at all because of this make him feel like a first class citizen. Any defense of this policy is asinine.
 

family_guy

Member
Mar 17, 2013
9,676
1
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Are they really in a position to make demands though when they aren't most popular anymore? I'm sure indies would get by just fine on PC, PS4, and Wii U.
 

spwolf

Member
Feb 15, 2007
16,283
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Q : Thoughts on parity clause and if there are plans for changes like ones recent announced(Kinectless and such)



Thanks to - http://www.xboxmad.net/x/pairity-prevents-xbox-owners-feeling-second-class.html

Timestamp - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2RG7TSLJI#t=1282

Upgrade to first class if old. I find this interesting causing the whole TR debate. PR going to PR I guess.
should have thought of this when you were developing XB1... not forcing impossible parity which means devs crippling other versions.
 

Rymuth

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Jun 8, 2014
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Classism? That's just great...Hasn’t history proven that Marx’s vision of an egalitarian utopia is unattainable, inevitably creating an oligarchy more oppressive to the proletariat than the bourgeoisie it vilifies?
 

hwy_61

Banned
Feb 17, 2012
9,729
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Chicago-ish?
Classism? That's just great...Hasn’t history proven that Marx’s vision of an egalitarian utopia is unattainable, inevitably creating an oligarchy more oppressive to the proletariat than the bourgeoisie it vilifies?
I know what half of those words mean.
 

Feindflug

Member
Jul 26, 2005
6,029
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0
Europa
How is not getting a game at all better than getting a game at a later date?

I still can't understand why they are still sticking to this crappy policy...the only thing that they actually managed to do with the parity clause is getting less games than the competition.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,738
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That's how I always viewed the parity clause. I don't have an issue with it.
Except the indies do, and have repeatedly said they do.

But hey no let's give indies an unfair burden because we're desperate to have games at the same time because we were so comically behind in courting indies that now we have to force them to be there day one! Way to go Xbox brand, you guys prove once again how much you care!

Seriously, you realize how selfish that is?
 

Acquiescence

Member
Mar 5, 2011
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Microsoft might want to distance themselves from the word "parity" for a good couple of months or so.
 

mentallyinept

Banned
Jun 7, 2013
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The first few posts have nailed it.

As of right now, MS isn't in a position to negotiate. They need to stop worrying about being first class and start worrying if they are going to get on the plane at all.
 

Sir TapTap

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Jun 17, 2014
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A blanket parity clause is so stupid. Don't limit every damn game, just make individual deals.
They do make individual deals, but by default you're excluded. Want in on Xbox you probably have to either be a very well proven dev or give the Xbox version extras. Warframe is one of the more notable exceptions they've made so far.
 

Acquiescence

Member
Mar 5, 2011
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Classism? That's just great...Hasn’t history proven that Marx’s vision of an egalitarian utopia is unattainable, inevitably creating an oligarchy more oppressive to the proletariat than the bourgeoisie it vilifies?
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,813
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570
Classism? That's just great...Hasn’t history proven that Marx’s vision of an egalitarian utopia is unattainable, inevitably creating an oligarchy more oppressive to the proletariat than the bourgeoisie it vilifies?
Real existing socialism /= anything Marx said.
 

Hoo-doo

Member
Sep 29, 2011
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I thought they were on the verge of dropping this ass-backwards clause. Guess not.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
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I thought they were on the verge of dropping this ass-backwards clause. Guess not.
hey you know when you finally think someone has changed, right? They were always assholes at parties and drunk and shit? And then like for a long while they were all cleaned up, and you were like starting to invite them to parties again? But then one day that person, like, breaks up with their girlfriend and comes to the party so shitfaced drunk and unable to even walk that they make a complete fool out of themselves and everyone around is talking in hushed tones about how sad it is and how sympathetic we feel about them but really it's time to go Bob, you've had enough to drink..
 

Paracelsus

Member
Jun 24, 2007
9,232
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Wasn't there a "if it's not at the very least day and date with PS3 don't bother bringing this indie to our platform" clause last gen?
 

JABEE

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May 19, 2010
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Phil Spencer trying to be the political equivalent of the politician you want to have a beer with.

By having a conversation, he means a big enough, established game that makes Xbox look bad if it were not to launch on time. It's mostly an attempt to make up for the fact that Xbox took two shits on Indie devs during the time that PlayStation was courting indie devs.

Strong-arm tactics can be spun to sound like bros having a sit-down talk.
 
May 16, 2006
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A developer shouldn't have to converse with Microsoft to explain themselves.
Especially an INDIE developer.

When you remove the PR-speak it still is what it is: It's just a huge behemoth company with loads of cash choosing to bully a small company instead of spending a little of that cash.

Phil is full of shit. If he wants special treatment, he should pony up some cash to these little studios to get it, rather than trying to bully them. The bullying tactics aren't even working, at least not on the smart devs with a hot game.
 

Marcel

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Feb 16, 2012
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hey you know when you finally think someone has changed, right? They were always assholes at parties and drunk and shit? And then like for a long while they were all cleaned up, and you were like starting to invite them to parties again? But then one day that person, like, breaks up with their girlfriend and comes to the party so shitfaced drunk and unable to even walk that they make a complete fool out of themselves and everyone around is talking in hushed tones about how sad it is and how sympathetic we feel about them but really it's time to go Bob, you've had enough to drink..
Microsoft is more like the old man with the leather jacket who thinks he's cool enough to be at the party but no one is rude enough to tell him to leave so everyone just uneasily tolerates his weird presence.
 

Sir TapTap

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Jun 17, 2014
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Phil Spector trying to be the political equivalent of the politician you want to have a beer with.

By having a conversation, he means a big enough, established game that makes Xbox look bad if it were not to launch on time. It's mostly an attempt to make up for the fact that Xbox took two shits on Indie devs during the time that PlayStation was courting indie devs.

Strong-arm tactics can be spun to sound like bros having a sit-down talk.
This guise has worn increasingly thin over the last couple months
 

sangreal

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May 19, 2005
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should have thought of this when you were developing XB1... not forcing impossible parity which means devs crippling other versions.
This is about release dates. It has nothing to do with crippling other versions or the weaker XB1 hardware. They just don't want games that release earlier on PS4

A blanket parity clause is so stupid. Don't limit every damn game, just make individual deals.
It's not blanket though; he says right in the quote that they make exceptions when necessary
 

HariKari

Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Phil is full of shit. If he wants special treatment, he should pony up some cash to these little studios to get it, rather than trying to bully them. The bullying tactics aren't even working, at least not on the smart devs with a hot game.
Yep. Looks especially dumb with the amount of money changing hands when MS moneyhats something for exclusivity.
 
They just don't want devs to treat X1 as an afterthought or a given. If you can shoehorn in some use of platform unique features (i.e. Kinect), and talk to them upfront (i.e. before you release on PS4), then they'll probably be cool with you releasing later.

Also, is it better to launch first on X1 and get a free devkit or pay for a PS4 and/or Wii U devkit and be locked out of X1?
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
17,350
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With all the "I believe in Phil Spencer" posts on here I truly thought that clause was going to get dropped sooner rather than later.

That he now reinforces how much he thinks it's a great idea is quite a reality check.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
28,719
1
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hey you know when you finally think someone has changed, right? They were always assholes at parties and drunk and shit? And then like for a long while they were all cleaned up, and you were like starting to invite them to parties again? But then one day that person, like, breaks up with their girlfriend and comes to the party so shitfaced drunk and unable to even walk that they make a complete fool out of themselves and everyone around is talking in hushed tones about how sad it is and how sympathetic we feel about them but really it's time to go Bob, you've had enough to drink..
This is almost exactly how I feel about Microsoft.