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[={<SMOKE>}=]

with all the dissapointment the board has shown over most of the xbox360 screens, i'm wondering if nintendo isn't right on the money.

i don't believe for a minute that xbox360 is xbox 1.5... the machines is much more powerful than any of the current gen machines. i wonder if the machine is too powerful. i think the underwhelming screens show that developers can't take advantage of the power that badboy has under its hood. they either don't know how and/or don't have the manpower/budget to do it...

if that is the case, where does this leave us? only the most wealthy companies will be able to produce games that meet our expectations...

i don't find it surprising that johnny nightrain has been saying all of the japanese developers are on board with nintendo and it's revolution. e3 should be interesting...

 

[909er]

with all the dissapointment the board has shown over most of the xbox360 screens, i'm wondering if nintendo isn't right on the money.

i don't believe for a minute that xbox360 is xbox 1.5... the machines is much more powerful than any of the current gen machines. i wonder if the machine is too powerful. i think the underwhelming screens show that developers can't take advantage of the power that badboy has under its hood. they either don't know how and/or don't have the manpower/budget to do it...

if that is the case, where does this leave us? only the most wealthy companies will be able to produce games that meet our expectations...

i don't find it surprising that johnny nightrain has been saying all of the japanese developers are on board with nintendo and it's revolution. e3 should be interesting...

I saw the NBA 2K6 and Gears of War video. My conclusion: Nintendo is full of shit if they think diminishing return is already here.

 

[Of All Trades]

Diminishing returns in screenshots? Yes. I weep for game mags.

 

[monchi-kun]

If you CAN'T push the envelope your only choice is to make the envelope look BAD

 

[Razoric]

quit listening to nintendo pr.. they just want you to buy their "revolution".

gears of war and other nice looking xbox 360 games prove it false. its just some games look like crap because they are rushed / upgraded xbox projects.

 

[ManaByte]

i don't find it surprising that johnny nightrain has been saying all of the japanese developers are on board with nintendo and it's revolution. e3 should be interesting...

He doesn't know what he's talking about. He also said that id's new IP is for Nintendo when Todd Hollenshead has said in every single fucking interview he's done that it's a IP for the PC using the next-generation cards from nVidia and ATI.

 

[Azih]

With all the japanese devs on Revolution and 360, who will be left for the PS3?

 

[Mrbob]

Nintendo is right that we'll see major diminishing returns eventually. But we aren't close to that point yet.

 

[pcostabel]

I think we have to make a distinction:

some games (PD0) look like crap because they are port from this gen + lazy devs. Nothing to do with the power of the hardware.

some games (DOA4/Racing Games) are not that impressive because there is little room for improvement compared to current generation games, so yes, diminishing returns.

other games look very impressive, and people complaining are just setting their expectations too high.

Overall, the problem is that this gen games are good enough that better graphics won't translate in better games. The computing power will be better spent on improved AI, physics,
environment interaction etc., but it will take time and we will see the results only later on.

 

[fse]

Diminishing Returns... for Rare :lol

 

[imastalker co.]

i don't find it surprising that johnny nightrain has been saying all of the japanese developers are on board with nintendo and it's revolution.

that has more to do with the fact that they're fascinated with the system, and they genuinly want to develop on it.

He doesn't know what he's talking about. He also said that id's new IP is for Nintendo when Todd Hollenshead has said in every single fucking interview he's done that it's a IP for the PC using the next-generation cards from nVidia and ATI.

yeah, i definitely don't know what im talking about. not to mention i never said that.

 

[dorio]

Nintendo is right that we'll see major diminishing returns eventually. But we aren't close to that point yet.

I think we are for certain type of games like racers, platformers, for instance.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

the machines is much more powerful than any of the current gen machines. i wonder if the machine is too powerful. i think the underwhelming screens show that developers can't take advantage of the power that badboy has under its hood. they either don't know how and/or don't have the manpower/budget to do it...

They can, there's just no market and won't be a big enough market (till PS3) to justify exorbitant budgets yet. You know publishers are out there to make money, not sink millions of dollars in a non-existant market to impress graphics whores right?

 

[chinch]

except for milking old IPs on portable game systems for kids, N has been right about very little.

nextgen has 720p/1080i support which alone is a mind-boggling upgrade.

E3 hasn't even happened yet so we can tone down the "grade the lame screenshots" here in all actuality

 

[_Angelus_]

I wouldn't go by Nintendo PR for jack really. They seriously underestimated what the masses wanted again this generation,who's to say they're not doing so again?

 

[Baconäger]

He doesn't know what he's talking about. He also said that id's new IP is for Nintendo when Todd Hollenshead has said in every single fucking interview he's done that it's a IP for the PC using the next-generation cards from nVidia and ATI.

No he didn't...

 

[ManaByte]

yeah, i definitely don't know what im talking about. not to mention i never said that.

Oh you didn't huh?

funny thing is, im hearing there's gonna be an exclsuive (as far as consoles go) id FPS at or near Revolution launch. new IP at that.

although i would totally take this one with a grain of salt. but hey, i suppose it's possible.

What about this, eh?

not wishful thinking on my behalf. im just letting you guys know what i heard a few days ago. as far as the new IP being Revolution exclusive, well, like i said, as far as consoles go.

would be a damn smart thing for Nintendo to do. besides, they've gotten exclusive id games before haven't they?

We'll find out at E3, eh? Oh if that doesn't happen, August?

well, there you have it i guess.

in any case, we'll find out at E3 i guess. maybe even in august.

Suuure...

nope, not in the slightest. cause like i said, im not even really hoping for it.

this source is pretty reliable though. but i think im gonna chalk this one up for the few times that he's wrong.

but once again, would be an excellent decision for Nintendo to have them bust out an FPS at or near launch. besides, id would be a great developer to show off how to use the new controller interface for FPS.

i mean really, it doesn't seem too unlikely to me, with all the things Carmack has said about Nintendo as of late. i just don't see it happening though since im sure MS would easily outbid Nintendo for exclusive next gen content.

Still claim you never said id's new FPS IP would be going to Revolution as an exclusive?

 

[SickBoy]

Aside from a resolution bump, I think a lot of the improvements in the next gen won't be as perceptible as they were this gen..

I agree with pcostabel -- a lot of games are already looking good this generation and even though systems may be doing a lot more in terms of generating pretty graphics, I don't think you're going to see an apparent quantum leap from a playable view in games like football, racing and a lot of the fighters out there. They'll look better, but I doubt they'll make your eyes pop out of your head.

On the other hand, there are several genres and titles out there that will benefit greatly from more power under the hood of consoles (i.e: GTA)

 

[monchi-kun]

Gamers aren't ready for Optical Media
Gamers aren't ready for Online


.... and now we have diminishing returns?

Nintendo reminds me of those Sandwich Board guys walking down Market Street preaching the end of the world

 

[Baconäger]

He said numerous times he wasn't endorsing the id rumor...

 

[={<SMOKE>}=]

huh, it seems you guys are missing my point. no one in here thinks that the xbox360 screens might be underwhelming simply because devs are having a hard time utilizing the hardware?

 

[Kuroyume]

This is the type of stuff Nintendo comes up with when they can't their games to look as pretty (except for WIND WAKER.)

 

[Amir0x]

ANYWAY, I do not think Nintendo wil be right for several generations yet about this "law of diminishing returns." By PS5 and Xbox1080, we'll be at that point.

 

[Krowley]

i've been thinking about this a lot since the disapointing 360 stuff started leaking yesterday...

obviously there are a few games that seem to take advantage of the hardware, and they look great, but the problem is, they are the same shit we've been playing for years with a fresh coat of paint and most of them don't look that fun... they don't look good enough to make up for the fact that the gameplay looks identical... it's not like i'm gonna be so blown away by these graphics that i'm gonna forget that i'm playing the same old shit. I remember back when the genesis first came out... it looked so much better than the nes... at first even mediocre games were amazing. thats not gonna work this time.

this gens games look *good*. Thats the essential problem... we don't have to use a lot of imagination to immerse ourselves in this gens games... next gen games look better, but it's not enough. i'm not frothing at the mouth to play these games... i'm not marking off the calendar days until this is released.... unless oblivion (the only game thats really intrigued me so far) is a launch title, there is no way i'm buying it when it comes out... it's not worth paying twice the price of the xbox.. there is nothing i've seen so far that would tempt me to pay 300 dollars. if all three systems are just the same thing with better graphics, i will wait until support for current consoles dries up (and a price drop) before i buy any of them. it's not that i don't enjoy the way people make games now, but if you want me to pay premium price for these next gen systems, i don't think the graphics are going to be enough incentive this time. i need a little more than that.

 

[cubicle47b]

I think it's just a case of developers not having a lot of time to work on 360 titles or the games being Xbox ports that is the cause of all the disappointment right now. That said, I think the current generation was the baseline of acceptable 3D in games and that a casual gamer looking at Dead Or Alive 3 on Xbox isn't going to notice *that* much of a difference (of course if that gamer looked at a bunch of other games from this generation...).

I have a hard time believing the PS3 and Revolution will be much more impressive graphically (of course the initial presentation might be). The difference between the current systems right now is image quality and I'd think that difference would shrink drastically since they all (the GPUs) will be fairly comparable in feature-sets.

 

[imastalker co.]

Oh you didn't huh?


What about this, eh?


We'll find out at E3, eh? Oh if that doesn't happen, August?


Suuure...



Still claim you never said id's new FPS IP would be going to Revolution as an exclusive?

such a sad fucktard you are. how does one own himself so badly?

 

[Prine]

fake

 

[Azih]

Well one thing really is that this generation really was in many ways to 3D what Genny/SNES/Neo-Geo were to 2D. This was the gen where developers got comfortable enough with the mechanics and graphics that even mediocre devs were putting out decent games. 3D matured with this generation.

2D games of course went out of style right as they matured when the PSX hit but that's probably not going to happen to 3D (unless Nintendo holo Revolution makes 360 and ps3 style 3D obsolete :lol). 2D games didn't really have anywhere revolutionary to go when they stopped making them (I mean Street Fighter 3 and GGXX as great as they are, are pretty similar to last gen 2d fighters mechanically and just a refinement visually [animation, flash]), it'll be interesting to see how 3D games handle themselves as all that's left for them is evolutionary steps and they aren't getting sidetracked by anything newer and sexier. The 3D revolution has happened and has been mastered already.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Oh you didn't huh?


What about this, eh?


We'll find out at E3, eh? Oh if that doesn't happen, August?


Suuure...



Still claim you never said id's new FPS IP would be going to Revolution as an exclusive?

this source is pretty reliable though. but i think im gonna chalk this one up for the few times that he's wrong.

Hmmm

 

[Rorschach]

such a sad fucktard you are. how does one own himself so badly?

It's Manabyte. 'nuff said.

 

[Odnetnin]

yes and no.

no for their own games cause they don't push it

yes for the more cutting edge studios.

 

[temp]

If you CAN'T push the envelope your only choice is to make the envelope look BAD

Gamers aren't ready for Optical Media
Gamers aren't ready for Online


.... and now we have diminishing returns?

Nintendo reminds me of those Sandwich Board guys walking down Market Street preaching the end of the world

Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Deku]

Aside from a resolution bump, I think a lot of the improvements in the next gen won't be as perceptible as they were this gen..

...and since many casuals still play on regular TVs, Nintendo is right.

 

[Matlock]

swing low sweet banhammer
comin' for to take manabyyyyte
oh swing low, sweet banhammer
comin' for to kill the dumbass

 

[Azelover]

Developers will find a way of making the hardware worth its money, but that's a matter of style and the direction they want to go, for most of it a lot of the extra power just isn't needed.

The dimishing returns thing isn't something new, you just didn't pay attention to it. I think I've heard other developers talk about that other than Nintendo, someone from Naughty Dog particularly and other developers I can't remember now, which needless to say has no affiliation to Nintendo.

 

[DDayton]

swing low sweet banhammer
comin' for to take manabyyyyte
oh swing low, sweet banhammer
comin' for to kill the dumbass

I'd score that 2/5... except on the Gamespot scale, in which case it's 4/5.

 

[goomba]

From what iv seen Xbox 360 is definately a step up. But its not near the same leap as we had from psx to ps2, so i agree we are seeing diminishing returns.

 

[belmakor]

huh, it seems you guys are missing my point. no one in here thinks that the xbox360 screens might be underwhelming simply because devs are having a hard time utilizing the hardware?

Considering all of the hoopla around XNA and how it's supposed to make designing games for the system just that much easier, I don't really think that the problem is going to be inability to utilize the hardware.

I also don't really think it's difficult for developers to find things to do with the extra power under the hood. It's really not that hard to design models with more polygons, or to use increased texture sizes and such. Where you will run into a problem will be with having artists good enough to make that content actually appealing.

 

[ziran]

huh, it seems you guys are missing my point. no one in here thinks that the xbox360 screens might be underwhelming simply because devs are having a hard time utilizing the hardware?

obviously there are a few games that seem to take advantage of the hardware, and they look great, but the problem is, they are the same shit we've been playing for years with a fresh coat of paint and most of them don't look that fun... they don't look good enough to make up for the fact that the gameplay looks identical... it's not like i'm gonna be so blown away by these graphics that i'm gonna forget that i'm playing the same old shit. I remember back when the genesis first came out... it looked so much better than the nes... at first even mediocre games were amazing. thats not gonna work this time.

both these points are the way i'm thinking.

it wasn't so much the gfx of 360, it was more 'not again'.

the problem is devs will not spend megabux on a new idea in fear of alienating an audience, so sequels with better gfx and tweaks is what we'll get.

also it's big trouble next gen all round for smaller devs because the big boys will exploit the gfx bcoz they have the cash. the gap, looks wise, between the big devs and small devs games will be very noticeable, so the casual gamer will go for the majors' games while smaller devs will struggle.