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NPD Sales Results for October 2014 [Up3: All of Nintendo's 3DS million sellers]

donny2112

Member
Both are going to crack a million units in Nov,

Largest multipliers this millenium (and probably ever) were Wii (~9x) and Vita (~6x) in 2012 going from almost dead consoles to BF life. Past that, Wii in 2010 (~5.5x). Everything else is between 2 and 4.5x increase (for still active consoles) from Oct. to Nov. If the XB1 number for Oct. is in the ballpark, then XB1, at least, wouldn't get there. Don't know if we've had a price cut start in November before, though, so that might throw it off some.

(Road already mostly covered this, but wanted to leave this since it had the lower range on Nov. multipliers and the XB1 price drop difference in there, too.)
 

StevieP

Banned
Go take a look at some of PS4's best looking 1st party titles, then compare them to Xbox One's best looking title. The graphical differences between each other are definitely not very small.

In the grand scheme of things the difference between the 2 is minuscule. As thunder monkey already alluded to with the talk of super sampling existing multiplats (before these boxes even released honestly)
 
Wanted Bros owns the LotR license.

Also, what Black Friday deal? Amazon?

What was their crime? ;p And actually WB doesn't own the rights. Middle-Earth Enterprises (a division of The Saul Zaentz Company) does (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth_Enterprises). And I believe MGM technically owns (or owned) a majority of rights to the Hobbit movies (which is why they are one the studios behind the Hobbit Trilogy).
 
In the grand scheme of things the difference between the 2 is minuscule. As thunder monkey already alluded to with the talk of super sampling existing multiplats (before these boxes even released honestly)
Wait, what? When comparing the graphics on two consoles, who the fuck is going to compare them to every possible PC from the recent past to the near future instead of simply comparing them to each other? What relevance do PCs have in a console comparison?
 

Concept17

Member
In the grand scheme of things the difference between the 2 is minuscule. As thunder monkey already alluded to with the talk of super sampling existing multiplats (before these boxes even released honestly)

Shadowfall and SS are a league above multiplats.
 

crazyprac

Member
Wait, what? When comparing the graphics on two consoles, who the fuck is going to compare them to every possible PC from the recent past to the near future instead of simply comparing them to each other? What relevance do PCs have in a console comparison?

Didn't you know you can only compare "fun" between consoles because PC > all graphics wise. Brah.

Oh shit did not know I became a member. Huzzah gonna grab me a beer and go to bed.
 

StevieP

Banned
Wait, what? When comparing the graphics on two consoles, who the fuck is going to compare them to every possible PC from the recent past to the near future instead of simply comparing them to each other? What relevance do PCs have in a console comparison?

We're all running the same multiplats. The difference between the 2 consoles is very small in comparison to the range of options available to play games with. There is a nice thread on the front page about a 750ti if you need to engage in that discussion (since this is an NPD thread)
 
Largest multipliers this millenium (and probably ever) were Wii (~9x) and Vita (~6x) in 2012 going from almost dead consoles to BF life. Past that, Wii in 2010 (~5.5x). Everything else is between 2 and 4.5x increase (for still active consoles) from Oct. to Nov. If the XB1 number for Oct. is in the ballpark, then XB1, at least, wouldn't get there. Don't know if we've had a price cut start in November before, though, so that might throw it off some.

(Road already mostly covered this, but wanted to leave this since it had the lower range on Nov. multipliers and the XB1 price drop difference in there, too.)

You guys and your "facts".

So depressing.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Huh? Why is everyone saying if the consoles don't hit 1M+ in NOVEMBER it's bad or something?

Novembers where consoles sold over 1M since 2000

PS2 - Nov 02 - 1,300,000

Wii - Nov 08 - 2,000,400
Wii - Nov 09 - 1,260,000 (it sold 3.8M that December... insane)
Wii - Nov 10 - 1,270,000

360 - Nov 10 - 1,370,000
360 - Nov 11 - 1,700,000

PS4 - Nov 11 (launch) - 1,100,000?

I doubt any console will break 1M this November.

PS4 has the remastered versions of last year's popular games. GTAV was a big game last gen, but this is just a remaster with some extra content released a year after the original game released. I'm sure it'll sell pretty well for a remaster, but I don't think it's a system seller for a lot of folks.

Just for an example:
360 in 2007
September 2007 - Halo 3 launch - 360 - 528K
November 2007 - 770K
 
They have to because they aren't going to sell along the same curve as PS3/360.

Much tighter curve reminiscent of the PS2 generation.

Part of that is because of the very conservative designs both used. Both are going to feel dated much faster than either the PS3 or 360 did. They don't have the hardware capability to last anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near the esoteric designs of PS3/360. Meaning it will take significantly less time for their capabilities to be "maxed".

We've already got GAFer's running the same 3rd party efforts at much higher resolutions, framerate, with higher fidelity effects on their (albeit expensive) PCs. This will become more pronounced as time goes on.

I would guess it depends how much multiplatform developers will target the console specs rather than high end PC specs. We've already seen with Unity what the problems of speccing too high can bring.

I could easily see 1080p/30fps titles riding out the generation as the engines become optimized around the capabilities of the consoles. You could easily see publishers pushing out titles at the technical level they are now for the next seven/eight years. The whole next gen gameplay thing has been a joke for a long time, as high end PCs have been here the whole time and should have been showing that next gen gameplay for a good few years now.

Too be honest, I'm not sure why PC gamers would be ecstatic with years of better performing console ports, rather than games using the capabilities of PCs to create better games. In the past the PC offered different types of games rather than merely shinier graphics, where the shinier graphics were combined with games which really pushed the CPU to the limit.

I don't think cross platform games will ever really show up consoles to such an extent that they'd look all that dated, especially as developers start working to their actual capabilities rather than some fanciful specs they had in their heads. However if we start getting some more PC exclusives that really push the hardware in a more expansive manner, i.e. superior AI, dynamic worlds with a greater scope, then the consoles really will start to look dated.

I see it with games like Alien Isolation. Looking at the articles comparing old-gen, current gen and PC differences. Each is more shiny than the other, but the world in which the games plays out is still very static and the same across generations. You get immovable piles of rubble that act as invisible walls, you're driven through a rat run of locked doors and openable vents. It may just be that all the cross-gen stuff is distorting what I'm seeing at the moment.

That was probably too much of a ramble, so a TL;DR version would be:

If cross platform games stick around (Console/PC) then I can see the consoles sticking around for a while and getting a lot of PS2 style life after the next console transition. If PC exclusives turn up that really push that platform then the console generation could be cut short with a more abrupt forced transition to the next gen.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
1m in their first proper November seems optimistic. It would be a big jump for Xbox to reach there based on expected October numbers - 3-4x? And I just don't see the demand. And for Sony I see supply as the issue, otherwise I think they migh have been a bit more aggressive on price/value. Figs, I take your point about US sales, but PS4 has been selling well globally, which may give SCEA less room to manoeuvre

Speaking more generally, I do wonder if this gen will be more front loaded, with the risk of fizzling out quite suddenly. I hope that MS/Sony are planning successor consoles with the aim of a smooth transition for developers and consumers, providing backward and perhaps forward compatibility to avoid a long cross-gen phase. Think more like iOS - lets have a PS4s or Xbox Air. A shorter generation also provides MS with an opportunity to compete with Sony where I think they can't with current gen. Get a head start while Sony are making hay
 
I doubt any console will break 1M this November.

PS4 has the remastered versions of last year's popular games. GTAV was a big game last gen, but this is just a remaster with some extra content released a year after the original game released. I'm sure it'll sell pretty well for a remaster, but I don't think it's a system seller for a lot of folks.

Oh ye of little faith. We are talking GTA V here. It is a known great game, they added content, Heists online are coming, and it is the #1 best-selling game on the PS4 on Amazon right now (above LBP3, Far Cry 4, and Dragon's age which all come out on the same day). I think that bundle will sell a LOT of PS4s.
 

rambis

Banned
They have to because they aren't going to sell along the same curve as PS3/360.

Much tighter curve reminiscent of the PS2 generation.

Part of that is because of the very conservative designs both used. Both are going to feel dated much faster than either the PS3 or 360 did. They don't have the hardware capability to last anywhere near as long, nor anywhere near the esoteric designs of PS3/360. Meaning it will take significantly less time for their capabilities to be "maxed".

We've already got GAFer's running the same 3rd party efforts at much higher resolutions, framerate, with higher fidelity effects on their (albeit expensive) PCs. This will become more pronounced as time goes on.
They don't "have" to though. Its not a forgone conclusion that either console sells less than their predecessor. I don't know why it is presented as often as it is and why conclusions are being drawn based on that so often.

And I don't think the consoles standing against PCs matter one bit. Neither 360 or PS3 had consoles that stood the test of time against PCs. I don't see any corelation between them.
One thing console makers have made abundantly clear is that they have no interest in a hardware race with PC. And I don't see much reason to do ao .
 

AniHawk

Member
1m in their first proper November seems optimistic. It would be a big jump for Xbox to reach there based on expected October numbers - 3-4x? And I just don't see the demand. And for Sony I see supply as the issue, otherwise I think they migh have been a bit more aggressive on price/value. Figs, I take your point about US sales, but PS4 has been selling well globally, which may give SCEA less room to manoeuvre

Speaking more generally, I do wonder if this gen will be more front loaded, with the risk of fizzling out quite suddenly. I hope that MS/Sony are planning successor consoles with the aim of a smooth transition for developers and consumers, providing backward and perhaps forward compatibility to avoid a long cross-gen phase. Think more like iOS - lets have a PS4s or Xbox Air. A shorter generation also provides MS with an opportunity to compete with Sony where I think they can't with current gen. Get a head start while Sony are making hay

i don't know what microsoft gets out of another console generation, to be honest. at least in the traditional sense.
 

Game Guru

Member
i don't know what microsoft gets out of another console generation, to be honest. at least in the traditional sense.

Do we have any numbers on how microconsoles like the Ouya, the MOJO, the Fire TV, and the PlayStation TV are doing? If they are doing pretty well, I would not be surprised if an Xbox TV was released by Microsoft in lieu of a successor to Xbox One. If they are doing poorly compared to traditional consoles, then there is still some use for MS being in the traditional console industry if they still seek to seize the living room even if they are number two to Sony in that realm.
 

stryke

Member
Do we have any numbers on how microconsoles like the Ouya, the MOJO, the Fire TV, and the PlayStation TV are doing? If they are doing pretty well, I would not be surprised if an Xbox TV was released by Microsoft in lieu of a successor to Xbox One. If they are doing poorly compared to traditional consoles, then there is still some use for MS being in the traditional console industry if they still seek to seize the living room even if they are number two to Sony in that realm.

PSTV bombed this month. Not surprising though, it's not a good enough device to be standalone and most PS4 owners won't care for or need a companion device.
 
I honestly think part of the mess that the console industry has got itself into is MS throwing money around and distorting expectations of AAA budgets versus expected revenues.
So no, competition isn't always good for the consumer. Particularly long term, and particularly where "competition" is measured in using money to muscle your way into a market, not on things like improving business practices or customer satisfaction.

on the bright side if MS loses November it will a sign of the times that they will continually lose 2:1 or more onwards against the PS4 and all their negative business practices will be wasted. Wouldn't be surprised if this was their last gen tbh.
 

Chocolate & Vanilla

Fuck Strawberry
Based on Sony's own FY projection they expect to ship another 9.5 million between Sept 31 and March 31. "Not enough supply" talk is nonsense.

I would also hazard a guess that they expect to sell at least 1m per month in the US this holiday based on the current Us:WW ratio estimates and the current estimated sell through if shipping 6-6.5 million this quarter.
 

EGM1966

Member
i don't know what microsoft gets out of another console generation, to be honest. at least in the traditional sense.
The question as to the role of having their own game console I'm sure is being discussed.

The original plan is gone - there s no living room ownage to be had, only a niche are taking the route that suits MS original vision.

It does give them a box with an MS OS and a store front in homes. The question is what's the actual value or role of that got them strategically?

You could argue important or unimportant depending on how you view market: the question is ultimately which it is that MS decides, useful or not for their business?
 
Of course Sony has enough supply of the PS4 for the Holidays.

They've only be selling 200-300k average a month in US since start of the year, and their manufacturing capacity is like 1.2-1.5m a month, no? I seem to remember reading that estimate ages ago on here based off sales and shipment numbers.
 
Of course Sony has enough supply of the PS4 for the Holidays.

They've only be selling 200-300k average a month in US since start of the year, and their manufacturing capacity is like 1.2-1.5m a month, no? I seem to remember reading that estimate ages ago on here based off sales and shipment numbers.

Those other units need to go elsewhere. Sony is going gangbusters in the EU.
 

Fangrim

Member
Of course Sony has enough supply of the PS4 for the Holidays.

They've only be selling 200-300k average a month in US since start of the year, and their manufacturing capacity is like 1.2-1.5m a month, no? I seem to remember reading that estimate ages ago on here based off sales and shipment numbers.

I don't think getting a PS4 will be a problem, but availability of popular bundles might have a supply issue.
 
I don't think getting a PS4 will be a problem, but availability of popular bundles might have a supply issue.

True. Maybe that is why Wal Mart and the like have alternative solo console with 50USD gift card as a contingency plan? Making half the bundle digital download codes should help a little with restocking in December.
 

ZSaberLink

Media Create Maven
Oh ye of little faith. We are talking GTA V here. It is a known great game, they added content, Heists online are coming, and it is the #1 best-selling game on the PS4 on Amazon right now (above LBP3, Far Cry 4, and Dragon's age which all come out on the same day). I think that bundle will sell a LOT of PS4s.

Being someone who studies Amazon all too frequently, I've seen enough times that their rankings often mean very little in the grand scheme of things, especially their hourly ones. Bayonetta 2 was #5-8 for a good 2-3 weeks (once the awesome reviews came out for it) and sold a bit more than 66K on the month.

Another example is how Watch Dogs on XB1 is about to fall off the top 100 sellers of 2014 despite it selling quite well (over 200K at the very least), but Hyrule Warriors is sitting at #59 or so for the year thus far.

I'm just saying a remastered GTAV won't be what's moving consoles imo. A new console purchase to essentially play an expansion to GTAV seems like a lot of money. The release of GTA4 and GTAV (especially 4) didn't increase console sales that much iirc.
 

ascii42

Member
Being someone who studies Amazon all too frequently, I've seen enough times that their rankings often mean very little in the grand scheme of things, especially their hourly ones. Bayonetta 2 was #5-8 for a good 2-3 weeks (once the awesome reviews came out for it) and sold a bit more than 66K on the month.

Another example is how Watch Dogs on XB1 is about to fall off the top 100 sellers of 2014 despite it selling quite well (over 200K at the very least), but Hyrule Warriors is sitting at #59 or so for the year thus far.

I'm just saying a remastered GTAV won't be what's moving consoles imo. A new console purchase to essentially play an expansion to GTAV seems like a lot of money. The release of GTA4 and GTAV (especially 4) didn't increase console sales that much iirc.

Bundles can be unique in their effect sometimes. You are right that GTA IV didn't really boost sales, but the PS3 had a GTA V bundle, and sales went from 71k in August to 216k in September. In comparison, the 360 went from 96k to 179k. That was the first time the PS3 had outsold the 360 in years, I believe. Tough to say with the rerelease though.
 

Biker19

Banned
We're all running the same multiplats. The difference between the 2 consoles is very small in comparison to the range of options available to play games with. There is a nice thread on the front page about a 750ti if you need to engage in that discussion (since this is an NPD thread)

Of course, the PC is more powerful than consoles. Why in the world would you bring that into the discussion between PS4 & Xbox One versions of games in terms of graphics?

It's bigger than you think, and smaller than Biker19 thinks.

40% bigger between PS4 & Xbox One.
 
Do we have any numbers on how microconsoles like the Ouya, the MOJO, the Fire TV, and the PlayStation TV are doing? If they are doing pretty well, I would not be surprised if an Xbox TV was released by Microsoft in lieu of a successor to Xbox One. If they are doing poorly compared to traditional consoles, then there is still some use for MS being in the traditional console industry if they still seek to seize the living room even if they are number two to Sony in that realm.

The microconsoles really aren't doing much of anything (excluding Apple TV/Fire, but don't really think those are microconsoles at this point). It doesn't seem that these kinds of boxes are the way things will go, at least not yet.

i don't know what microsoft gets out of another console generation, to be honest. at least in the traditional sense.

Well, with how fast the industry is changing, I don't think anyone really knows what the market will accept as a next generation console in 2019 or 2020.
 

StevieP

Banned
Of course, the PC is more powerful than consoles. Why in the world would you bring that into the discussion between PS4 & Xbox One versions of games in terms of graphics?



40% bigger between PS4 & Xbox One.

Doesn't matter the label on the front of the box. They all play games. That 40 percent number is in isolation to only 2 platforms. In the grand scheme of things for devices that play games, as I said, the difference is rather small between them. If you look at things only in isolation you miss the big picture. (Kinda the ethos of sales agers)
 

AniHawk

Member
The question as to the role of having their own game console I'm sure is being discussed.

The original plan is gone - there s no living room ownage to be had, only a niche are taking the route that suits MS original vision.

It does give them a box with an MS OS and a store front in homes. The question is what's the actual value or role of that got them strategically?

You could argue important or unimportant depending on how you view market: the question is ultimately which it is that MS decides, useful or not for their business?

my belief is there's still value in the xbox name, and it's something they'll use going forward even if it means doing it without the set top box they had planned for back in 1999.

valve is a first-party game developer at this point, with their platform being steam. i don't think they were viewed as such when steam was first launched, but that is honestly the way of things now. steam is also huge, accessible, and growing every year. it's this model i think microsoft thought they could emulate in a physical sense with the xbox one earlier in 2013. they had the right idea but the most dismal execution. there wasn't even a trade-off for losing your physical copies of games (basically). like if you could share your games with friends, that might have been something to really set the xbox apart and make always-on drm kind of worth it to a lot of people. but it was either their vision for the platform or nothing at all.

it's a better thing for them that they didn't go through with it, at least in the short-term. i mean even with some incentive, it was still pretty half-assed. it should have been a steam-like platform with a huge hard drive and a controller if they truly wanted to shake things up.

elsewhere we see others starting to reject the traditional model. square-enix, warner bros., ea, and ubisoft all have some sort of alternative distribution method. japan as a whole is mostly leaving the market for mobile, even former giants like capcom and the square side of square-enix. sega is making larger strides to join the pc than ever before, and they're no longer investing in new ips specifically for the console or handheld market (hero bank seems to be the last one - world end eclipse is a vita game, but it's also on the pc and for mobile devices).

and there are now less games being made for the traditional market. there's just too much risk associated with the rising cost and rapidly dwindling userbase. i think that we've entered a sort of downward spiral where developers are becoming more fiercely focused on a lucrative segment of the market, making them spend more than ever before. they're doing so at the expense of reaching out to a broader demographic that could extend the reach of the traditional market.

so i don't know when all of these points will converge in the future, but given microsoft's direction early on, the reports of unhappiness within the board towards the xbox project, and the general outlook of the industry, it's hard to say what the next xbox will look like. i think the most likely scenarios are microsoft making a competitor to steam out of the xbox brand, followed by one more go at the console market, and lastly either spinning off the xbox company into its own thing or just shutting the whole thing down (that last one doesn't seem very possible). depending on sony's financial health five years from now, they might not see it worth it to make another box just to keep fighting an already embattled company. i do think sony will make a very traditional playstation 5 next generation though, and it will sort of be like fiddler's green in the land of the dead, except with less dennis hopper.
 

Jeels

Member
my belief is there's still value in the xbox name, and it's something they'll use going forward even if it means doing it without the set top box they had planned for back in 1999.

valve is a first-party game developer at this point, with their platform being steam. i don't think they were viewed as such when steam was first launched, but that is honestly the way of things now. steam is also huge, accessible, and growing every year. it's this model i think microsoft thought they could emulate in a physical sense with the xbox one earlier in 2013. they had the right idea but the most dismal execution. there wasn't even a trade-off for losing your physical copies of games (basically). like if you could share your games with friends, that might have been something to really set the xbox apart and make always-on drm kind of worth it to a lot of people. but it was either their vision for the platform or nothing at all.

it's a better thing for them that they didn't go through with it, at least in the short-term. i mean even with some incentive, it was still pretty half-assed. it should have been a steam-like platform with a huge hard drive and a controller if they truly wanted to shake things up.

elsewhere we see others starting to reject the traditional model. square-enix, warner bros., ea, and ubisoft all have some sort of alternative distribution method. japan as a whole is mostly leaving the market for mobile, even former giants like capcom and the square side of square-enix. sega is making larger strides to join the pc than ever before, and they're no longer investing in new ips specifically for the console or handheld market (hero bank seems to be the last one - world end eclipse is a vita game, but it's also on the pc and for mobile devices).

and there are now less games being made for the traditional market. there's just too much risk associated with the rising cost and rapidly dwindling userbase. i think that we've entered a sort of downward spiral where developers are becoming more fiercely focused on a lucrative segment of the market, making them spend more than ever before. they're doing so at the expense of reaching out to a broader demographic that could extend the reach of the traditional market.

so i don't know when all of these points will converge in the future, but given microsoft's direction early on, the reports of unhappiness within the board towards the xbox project, and the general outlook of the industry, it's hard to say what the next xbox will look like. i think the most likely scenarios are microsoft making a competitor to steam out of the xbox brand, followed by one more go at the console market, and lastly either spinning off the xbox company into its own thing or just shutting the whole thing down (that last one doesn't seem very possible). depending on sony's financial health five years from now, they might not see it worth it to make another box just to keep fighting an-already embattled company. i do think sony will make a very traditional playstation 5 next generation though, and it will sort of be like fiddler's green in the land of the dead, except with less dennis hopper.

What a depressing post. Dark times coming up for console gaming...
 
What a depressing post. Dark times coming up for console gaming...

Well, some people believe that losing ~100 million gamers between last gen and this gen doesn't matter because they weren't the right sort of gamer, this will be an 8 year gen and Japans just waiting for the right DQ / Musou / Dating Sim to appear before buying 30 million PS4s.
 
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