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[Deleted member 13876]

You are not supposed to watch porn at job, you shouldn't have nothing to hide.

Sir, you just used a double negative. Terrisus has been alerted, but I must formally request you to stand down until further notice.

 

[Atomski]

Some reason the open office picture just dosnt bug me.. looks like a Lan session.

I've worked on graphic design in similar situations and I actually like it. Easy to get feed back and such.

 

[fester]

I want to chime in real quick in regards to open office layouts. For the last year or so I've been in such a layout (though not nearly as packed as Valve's) and have nothing negative to say about it. I work at a tech start up in silicon valley, and have found this layout to be essential to productivity and collaboration. I've had jobs in the past with cubicles and offices, but the non-open office layout has, in my opinion, has stressed verticality and secrecy (two things I don't like), whereas the open office layout has promoted a flatter hierarchy and openness to ideas across members of all different teams.

Small modifications can be made to better the open office experience: 1) Have several conference rooms and small rooms to have meetings/phone calls/confidential interviews that won't disrupt everyone else. 2) Use your walls and windows as white boards. 3) Let HR know if there are things in the workplace that lower productivity -- they'll be happy to send messages/reminders to the company about not coming to the office if you are sick, not playing music without headphones, etc. 4) Don't put all the desks together. Consider making pods of 4-6 desks that are arranged in a rectangle.

Anyway, I've never visited Valve's offices, but I am a proponent of open offices.

Nice to a balanced response to the open office layout instead of all the knee-jerk "well I want my personal space" comments. At my company, the pros far outweigh the cons. The ability for people to quickly share information and work together to solve problems is best accomplished with an open office/desk design. Sorry if you personally don't like it, but for some industries this truly the most effective way to work.

Also, publicly posting negative comments about a former employer is incredibly stupid and a good way to not land your next job. I interview 100s of people every year and if you display an overtly negative view of your previous company, chances are extremely good that I'm not going to hire you. It really doesn't matter how bad the other work environment was -- I'm going to put myself in your old manager's spot and picture you whining/complaining in your new job. Why would I want to take a chance on that kind of negativity tearing down the rest of the team?

 

[randomengine]

I thought the people running Valve were intelligent. This is not how intelligent people set up a productive place of work.

The take home message for 2014 is that the world is way more precariously set-up than we all can imagine. These places we admire, there is no grand plan, they are just making it up as they go along, like we do, they were just lucky enough to be successful at it.

 

[Freeman]

Sounds like he is tons of fun to be around.

Maybe he doesn't work well on this environment and this sort of workplace likely has its drawbacks, but complaining like this about work conditions in Valve of all places is silly. Room temperature? Please.

Valve does some things really well but at the same time they have a hard time with things that, at least from the outside, shouldn't be so hard for a company with as much resources as them.

 

[exmachina64]

The take home message for 2014 is that the world is way more precariously set-up than we all can imagine. These places we admire, there is no grand plan, they are just making it up as they go along, like we do, they were just lucky enough to be successful at it.

Never idolize anything or anyone.

 

[Lime]

Sounds like he is tons of fun to be around.

Maybe he doesn't work well on this environment and this sort of workplace likely has its drawbacks, but complaining like this about work conditions in Valve of all places is silly. Room temperature? Please.

If this is how you usually react to people who have standards to their work environment and their worker rights, you must be a terribly unsympathetic colleague to work with.

 

[EatinOlives]

Sounds like he is tons of fun to be around.

Maybe he doesn't work well on this environment and this sort of workplace likely has its drawbacks, but complaining like this about work conditions in Valve of all places is silly. Room temperature? Please.

Are you trying to say room temperature can't ever be inadequate enough in an office for it to affect your productivity? Because that is really silly.

 

[kiguel182]

Nice to a balanced response to the open office layout instead of all the knee-jerk "well I want my personal space" comments. At my company, the pros far outweigh the cons. The ability for people to quickly share information and work together to solve problems is best accomplished with an open office/desk design. Sorry if you personally don't like it, but for some industries this truly the most effective way to work.

Also, publicly posting negative comments about a former employer is incredibly stupid and a good way to not land your next job. I interview 100s of people every year and if you display an overtly negative view of your previous company, chances are extremely good that I'm not going to hire you. It really doesn't matter how bad the other work environment was -- I'm going to put myself in your old manager's spot and picture you whining/complaining in your new job. Why would I want to take a chance on that kind of negativity tearing down the rest of the team?

So you don't hire someone who didn't like their old job?

He also didn't start by attacking the company. He criticised how the office space was managed and how it could improve.

Not taking constructive criticism as an employer is more troublesome than an employee talking about how your office setup could be improved.

 

[DarkJC]

Also, publicly posting negative comments about a former employer is incredibly stupid and a good way to not land your next job. I interview 100s of people every year and if you display an overtly negative view of your previous company, chances are extremely good that I'm not going to hire you. It really doesn't matter how bad the other work environment was -- I'm going to put myself in your old manager's spot and picture you whining/complaining in your new job. Why would I want to take a chance on that kind of negativity tearing down the rest of the team?

This logically makes no sense, and is a stupid way to base your decision on hiring someone.

So you'll hire someone who had a great view of their old job with no complaints -- how do you know your environment will be one where they also have no complaints? You want to hear what their issues were with the old job and compare them to yours and evaluate whether they would be happy there, not judge them for being honest with you about what their preferences are.

 

[ashecitism]

He's currently employed btw, so not sure why people bring it up in the first place.

 

[Dopus]

Sounds like he is tons of fun to be around.

Maybe he doesn't work well on this environment and this sort of workplace likely has its drawbacks, but complaining like this about work conditions in Valve of all places is silly. Room temperature? Please.

Valve does some things really well but at the same time they have a hard time with things that, at least from the outside, shouldn't be so hard for a company with as much resources as them.

Have you ever worked in an office that's too hot or too cold on a day-to-day basis?

 

[Freeman]

Are you trying to say room temperature can't ever be inadequate enough in an office for it to affect your productivity? Because that is really silly.

This sort of thing happens every-time there is more than one person in a room and a way to control the temperature.

Have you ever worked in an office that's too hot or too cold on a day-to-day basis?

Yes, actually. Such a tiresome discussion, because what is hot for me might not be for you, etc, usually the person who cares the most ends up deciding and I'm not that person.

 

[thomasmahler]

I see where he's coming from, I also hate open office environments. The constant distraction is just killing productivity.

At Blizzards Cinematics department, we had small rooms with 5-6 people in them and people still bought these japanese screen door thingies to form walls around them - that was a perfect solution and made things so much better. You just want to be able to look at your workload and work in peace and you can still head over to people and ask them something or chat with them without constantly bothering other people.

 

[krameriffic]

Sounds like he is tons of fun to be around.

Maybe he doesn't work well on this environment and this sort of workplace likely has its drawbacks, but complaining like this about work conditions in Valve of all places is silly. Room temperature? Please.

Valve does some things really well but at the same time they have a hard time with things that, at least from the outside, shouldn't be so hard for a company with as much resources as them.

People have standards, especially in engineering/design disciplines, because they CAN have them. Something like room temperature may seem trivial, but comparing it to sweatshop workers in Calcutta working in 100 degree 100% humidity conditions 16 hours a day is pointless. If you piss off your engineers, even about something prima donna-ish, they WILL go somewhere else that is better, because they can. And it's shit like this that causes companies to overrun budgets and miss deadlines. Once the talent starts to leave, whatever the reason may be, you're up fuck creek.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Valve didn't want any of her work or patents so they were happy to give them to her.

As a software engineer myself, this sounds like science fiction to me. I have never heard of a thing such as this in my entire life, even as a second (or third)-hand account, rumor or urban legend, and I know like a hundred fellow programmers between coworkers and friends. How can you not see how crazy, Disney movie-like this is?

 

[Jarate]

Some people really work well with those open offices, and others don't

 

[sonicmj1]

Pictures from the Platinum Games blog when they moved offices in 2012:

Something that hasn’t changed, our open floor layout. It is key to what we do.

 

[fester]

This logically makes no sense, and is a stupid way to base your decision on hiring someone.

So you'll hire someone who had a great view of their old job with no complaints -- how do you know your environment will be one where they also have no complaints? You want to hear what their issues were with the old job and compare them to yours and evaluate whether they would be happy there, not judge them for being honest with you about what their preferences are.

So you don't hire someone who didn't like their old job?

He also didn't start by attacking the company. He criticised how the office space was managed and how it could improve.

Not taking constructive criticism as an employer is more troublesome than an employee talking about how your office setup could be improved.

I said you don't talk about it publicly and you certainly don't ever talk about it in an interview. Every job has it's good points and bad ones and we're only hearing one side of the story. Perhaps there are very good reasons for the way things are set up at Valve and this dev wasn't aware of them or is purposely not talking about them? At the end of the day, I'm looking for people who can rise to meet any challenge and approach issues with positive, professional attitudes. I see none of this when you complain about a previous employer.

So no, it's not illogical, not stupid, and I have one of the best teams I've ever worked with because we hire great people.

 

[Akuun]

Not really a fan of open offices myself. The noise is incredible, and I've had to invest in earplugs.

At work, there are two machines right next to my desk. The fan noise from the things is like having two very loud computers right next to you, and the open office means voices carry.

If one of the people whose voices naturally carry is talking anywhere in the office, it's almost as loud as if someone was sitting right next to you talking right at you while you're trying to work. Even worse if there are multiple conversations going on at the same time.

It doesn't have to be all offices or cubicles, but even like half-height partitions would probably work wonders in terms of blocking distractions.

 

[EatinOlives]

This sort of thing happens every-time there is more than one person in a room and a way to control the temperature.



Yes, actually. Such a tiresome discussion, because what is hot for me might not be for you, etc, usually the person who cares the most ends up deciding and I'm not that person.

Yes I am aware, I've had my own share of people in offices going "OMG it's too cold!!!" when the temperature is like 70F. I've also had instances where the thermostat (that we can't control and have to call maintenance to fix) is screwed up and it's blasting hot air into an 80F room in the middle of June.

For all we know it could've been the latter. Why do you instantly assume it's the former?

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Pictures from the Platinum Games blog when they moved offices in 2012:

This one looks a lot more pleasant than the one at Valve.

 

[Future]

Good for communication and collaboration

Problem is the it encourages communication and collaboration at the wrong times. People need large blocks of uninterrupted time to get anything done. I bet there is a high correlation with open spaces and overtime, as people work later and weekends to get things done. Not cuz they are over scheduled, but because that's when there are less people in the office, and thus, less great collaboration

 

[BajiBoxer]

This part sounds completely insane to me:

Hyper-competitive graphics card vendors would watch the activity on our huge monitors and get pissed off when we emailed or chatted, even about inane crap, with other vendors.

 

[silvermember]

Never idolize anything or anyone.

If people actually followed that advice, half of the complaints on this forum would be gone.

 

[kiguel182]

I said you don't talk about it publicly and you certainly don't ever talk about it in an interview. Every job has it's good points and bad ones and we're only hearing one side of the story. Perhaps there are very good reasons for the way things are set up at Valve and this dev wasn't aware of them or is purposely not talking about them? At the end of the day, I'm looking for people who can rise to meet any challenge and approach issues with positive, professional attitudes. I see none of this when you complain about a previous employer.

So no, it's not illogical, not stupid, and I have one of the best teams I've ever worked with because we hire great people.

The fact that you hire great people has nothing to do with people complaining about their job.

Of course there are always two sides to every argument but that doesn't mean people have to shut up if they think something is wrong with their work place. If someone sees something that seems wrong they should speak up about it and maybe the employer can explain why that's the better way or they can take the advice and improve the workplace.

If you didn't like something in your old job doesn't mean it was all bad either. Maybe somethings could be better and if it comes up in a future interview maybe it could help both parties to talk about it.

The tone of your posts just seems like you just want people who won't complain when something is wrong and should "stay positive" about everything. A manager's dream pretty much and what is wrong with tons of workplaces.

 

[z1ggy]

I like open office environment. It's easier for me to see what´s needed and who needs help. If someone comes to me to talk about random stuff when i need to focus on something, i'll just ignore him/er and they understand that i can´t pay attention to them.

 

[Woo-Fu]

You have to be able to naturally maintain focus if you work in an environment like that. When I am "working" you could probably set my chair on fire and I wouldn't notice until my ass started burning. Then again people who focus like that probably aren't really contributing to whatever it is that makes that sort of environment productive.

As far as burning bridges go I don't think he has to worry about that one as long as his primary desire is to make new games.

 

[2MF]

This one looks a lot more pleasant than the one at Valve.

Not to me. I prefer smaller rooms where you can't see very far.

The bigger the room, the more visual and aural disturbance you get.

 

[beril]

Honestly I kind of assumed every large gaming studio more or less used open office layouts. It certainly has it's issues though

 

[MilitanT07]

"9. Mixing electrical or mechanical engineers (who operate power tools, solder, destruct shit, etc.) next to developers trying their best to concentrate on code."

Since when do engineers operate such devices? Usually on very rare occasions (as an engineer myself). If he can't tell between an engineer and a technician, it raises many questions about some of his other statements.

 

[Alx]

"9. Mixing electrical or mechanical engineers (who operate power tools, solder, destruct shit, etc.) next to developers trying their best to concentrate on code."

Since when do engineers operate such devices? Usually on very rare occasions (as an engineer myself). If he can't tell between an engineer and a technician, it raises many questions about some of his other statements.

Engineering isn't all about coding... when you're dealing with practical elements you may have to dirty your hands a bit, especially in a system like the Valve environment where people can have their own pet projects and needs for prototyping.

 

[D4Danger]

"9. Mixing electrical or mechanical engineers (who operate power tools, solder, destruct shit, etc.) next to developers trying their best to concentrate on code."

Since when do engineers operate such devices? Usually on very rare occasions (as an engineer myself). If he can't tell between an engineer and a technician, it raises many questions about some of his other statements.

would you say you're an expert?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This one looks a lot more pleasant than the one at Valve.

the experience wouldn't be any different at all.

 

[m_shortpants]

I kind of like my current company's set up. They have "bullpens" which are large cubes with low walls. Each person gets a corner of the square. There's a lot of space but you still have privacy. When I need to talk to someone in the next bullpen I just stand up and I can see them.

 

[SteveWinwood]

i dunno just seems like a bunch of stuff that isnt necessarily bad

just bad for him

i mean there's a reason he doesnt work there anymore, he didnt like it

i know there are plenty that do

so

 

[EatinOlives]

Engineering isn't all about coding... when you're dealing with practical elements you may have to dirty your hands a bit, especially in a system like the Valve environment where people can have their own pet projects and needs for prototyping.

Indeed. The most entertaining part about this thread are all the people tripping over themselves to try to discredit the blog post. Some of the nitpicking doesn't even make any sense.

Not everyone loves working at Valve, that's all there is to it. Some people really can't wrap their head around that.

 

[BrassDragon]

Yes I am aware, I've had my own share of people in offices going "OMG it's too cold!!!" when the temperature is like 70F. I've also had instances where the thermostat (that we can't control and have to call maintenance to fix) is screwed up and it's blasting hot air into an 80F room in the middle of June.

For all we know it could've been the latter. Why do you instantly assume it's the former?

One issue with temperature is that, unless you have state of the art climate control, large rooms take a long-ass time to warm up or cool down, especially if the thermostat has to deal with unexpected variables such as a sudden influx of people or machines powering down. So if you're cold and you crank up the thermostat, chances are you won't notice a difference for a few hours - in the meantime, other people notice the cold and crank up the thermostat even further. And when the late shifts comes in, they find it stuffy, turn down the thermostat and the cycle continues.

 

[ashecitism]

http://richg42.blogspot.hu/2015/01/robot-entertainment-knows-how-to-make.html

might as well start going through all studios now

open office wars

 

[SteveWinwood]

http://richg42.blogspot.hu/2015/01/robot-entertainment-knows-how-to-make.html

might as well start going through all studios now

open office wars

The conversation is good to have, only good can come from it for those that listen and learn.

 

[Seventy70]

The lengths people go to defend their favorite companies is amazing.

 

[NervousXtian]

There's something to be said about working in small groups in an office, 3 to 6 max... but these open open offices are crazy.

I can't work like that.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Sounds like he is tons of fun to be around.

Maybe he doesn't work well on this environment and this sort of workplace likely has its drawbacks, but complaining like this about work conditions in Valve of all places is silly. Room temperature? Please.

Valve does some things really well but at the same time they have a hard time with things that, at least from the outside, shouldn't be so hard for a company with as much resources as them.

I said it once and I will say it again:

People who have never worked at Valve criticizing a guy that actually has.

 

[RealityPales]

I would would for North Korea if it meant I got to see Half-Life 3 everyday.

 

[Alienous]

Does he explain somewhere why it took him 5 years to realize that he didn't like the work environment at Valve?

 

[draetenth]

Is Valve's Open Office style really that bad or was it just a bad fit for the guy? From what I can tell, I would hate it, but maybe there are people who do like the style.

I do wonder if the Open Office style is why Valve's customer service is so slow/bad. People are always interacting with each other instead of focusing on helping the customer. I know my office has a 1-800 line and they are kept removed/isolated from any one else and any possible noise so they can concentrate on their work.

 

[Mr_B_Fett]

As a software engineer myself, this sounds like science fiction to me. I have never heard of a thing such as this in my entire life, even as a second (or third)-hand account, rumor or urban legend, and I know like a hundred fellow programmers between coworkers and friends. How can you not see how crazy, Disney movie-like this is?

In pure tech companies it's not that unusual to have agreements regarding patents as part of your employment contract. Personally, in my current job, the patents are mine but my employer has a perpetual royalty free usage agreement. The work part though, that's pretty strange without a buy-out.

Interesting thread, the company I work for has gone from cubes to open plan and now to "team areas". Open plan was a disaster and lasted less around 18th months. The new team areas are essentially 6-10 person mega cubes where folks sit around the edges with an inner cube of white boards. Works well most of the time. They also added lots of 1-3 person multi purpose rooms to the office which you can grab for calls/meetings/post lunch napping.

 

[stan423321]

The photo in the OP is practically the same layout as one of computer rooms at our (IT) uni building. It appears to be universally least liked computer room among the students - during the breaks, it's relatively less likely to be full than the ones where all monitors are aligned to walls / windows.

Of course students != engineers, but that's still something.

Spoiler

"!=" == "=/="

 

[2SeeKU]

I've worked at 3 companies over about 8-9 years as a software developer, and each office had nearly the identical layout:

Half wall cubicles. They're fine for other positions like Helpdesk, QA and such, but as a developer, they can suck due to the constant distractions.

The photo in the OP, I can only imagine being worse. It just looks too "tight".

 

[charlequin]

This is actually awful and the constant acceptance of 10+ hour work days is just awful. It's been proven in multiple studies people get less effective as the hours drag on.

10+ hour days, completely open-floorplan offices, and forced stack ranking are all great policies to compare to one another, since they're all basically driven by management paranoia and they all have been shown to consistently worsen productivity basically everywhere they're deployed. And in every thread about these things, you get a long litany of people who are absolutely certain that their subjective experience of how they felt about their own job, despite the mounds of evidence that these systems aren't effective.

I interview 100s of people every year and if you display an overtly negative view of your previous company, chances are extremely good that I'm not going to hire you. It really doesn't matter how bad the other work environment was -- I'm going to put myself in your old manager's spot and picture you whining/complaining in your new job.

I would never let someone who held this position serve as an interviewer for positions on my team. In a role like development it is way more important for people to be able to accurately and insightfully critique a system than it is for them to be polite to bad managers.

Then again people who focus like that probably aren't really contributing to whatever it is that makes that sort of environment productive.

Yeah, I mean, there are positions that do exist where communication between team members is extremely valuable whereas long periods of uninterrupted focus are not (sales strikes me as an obvious possibility) -- but none of those positions exist at a game developer.

I kind of like my current company's set up. They have "bullpens" which are large cubes with low walls. Each person gets a corner of the square. There's a lot of space but you still have privacy. When I need to talk to someone in the next bullpen I just stand up and I can see them.

The bullpens are a great midpoint since they allow and encourage some collaboration between people working together on a given team, while still strongly discouraging the type of disruption driven by people too lazy to look things up for themselves.