lol
it's not that much more ridiculous than the chanbara flipping and strafing shit you see in OoT. you're just used to OoT.
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Mario 64 and FF7; two revolutionary games, which shaped/impacted the industry more?
- Thread starter enigmatic_alex44
- Start date
it's not that much more ridiculous than the chanbara flipping and strafing shit you see in OoT. you're just used to OoT.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
then give it some thought
Chill Penguin
Member
I'd say resident evil and metal gear solid were far more impactful in that area. FF7 was great but other than cutscenes was a pretty run of the mill save the world story.
Chill Penguin
Member
Crash and Spyro were also way more limited and not nearly as good. They were obsolete the minute Mario 64 hit the scene.
Yes Spyro a platformer, that came out 1 year after SM64 hit NA and 2 years after it came out period, where you go from a hub world into open platforming areas where you complete mission often the completion signified by getting an item was not all taking anything from SM64.
What?
Virtual On had a very specific control scheme. It was essentially 'dual flight stick' controls to simulate piloting a mech. I don't remember it as having Z targeting, per se, but the way the controls worked allowed you to circle strafe. Basically, it was like if you pushed both sticks forward you moved forward. If you push both left you go left. And if you pus one forward and one back you turn.
It might have had auto aim to some degree, but the controls kind of were designed to let you turn to face your opponent while you strafed. At least... That's how I remember it. I haven't played it since before I could drive!
I still have a stick up my ass about the common sentiment that OOT somehow invented lock-on combat, but whether or not its mechanics were completely new or modifications on existing ideas, when you have Itagaki saying things like this -
you just can't deny that the game was influential.
But I guess this thread is about SM64 and what was that other one?
Kidding, at the very least FFVII probably lead to a lot more localizations of JRPGs for us westerners.
GregLombardi
Member
Tell us. What was Mario 64 improving upon? Are you insane? Has this board lost its mind?
Were you even alive when Mario 64 dropped?
I love FF7 but this post is mind boggling.
KojiKnight
Member
Yeah I'm really confused on this as well... I need clarification on what exactly Mario 64 built on.
Maybe 3D platforming? I remember Jumping Flash existing before Mario 64. Free roaming 3D too.
Not to say FF7 was more revolutionary. I felt the cinematics enhanced what already existed in games like Ninja Gaiden for the NES.
As for the game being the first big budget blockbuster, what games had a bigger budget before FF7? Serious question. I definitely don't think the PSX would've been as successful if it weren't for FF7.
Lol, joke post?
CoconutTank
Member
I believe you are mostly correct
there was no explicit auto-target or z-target mechanic in virtual-on, but pushing both sticks outward made your mech quickly turn to face the other mech. I don't think pushing the sticks inward does anything (don't remember if it was even possible).GOGOheadray
Member
[/QUOTE]AC never sold because of its story.
It's even laughable to even imply that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjVPu4SL6Cs
That's the reveal of AC1, AC2 explorded after that but really the thing that Ubi hype with every game is more that the big city you'll explore is fully traversable.
It has more to do with GTAIII success than anything.
Skyrim is freaking Elder Scroll, it certainly never had anything to do with cutting edge tech more than the potential of ES gigantic world.
None of these games were inspired by FFVII even for the angle of their marketing.[/QUOTE]
What's laughable is that you try and conventially forget my other two points. Those being presentation and graphics with your AC example. In fact you put up a example of how AC is marketed which of course was done in the same fashion as FF7 to try and prove me wrong somehow?
A majority of people who bought skyrim were completely new to the seris so how could they of been floored by the potential of a world in which they had no previous investment? Skyrim sold so much because they advertised it well ( dragons, etc) and also it was pretty cutting edge in graphics in terms of last gen consoles. If this wasn't the case how come oblivion or even morrowind whom many consider the best game in the entire franchise not nearly sell close to what skyrim did....
It's even laughable to even imply that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjVPu4SL6Cs
That's the reveal of AC1, AC2 explorded after that but really the thing that Ubi hype with every game is more that the big city you'll explore is fully traversable.
It has more to do with GTAIII success than anything.
Skyrim is freaking Elder Scroll, it certainly never had anything to do with cutting edge tech more than the potential of ES gigantic world.
None of these games were inspired by FFVII even for the angle of their marketing.[/QUOTE]
What's laughable is that you try and conventially forget my other two points. Those being presentation and graphics with your AC example. In fact you put up a example of how AC is marketed which of course was done in the same fashion as FF7 to try and prove me wrong somehow?
A majority of people who bought skyrim were completely new to the seris so how could they of been floored by the potential of a world in which they had no previous investment? Skyrim sold so much because they advertised it well ( dragons, etc) and also it was pretty cutting edge in graphics in terms of last gen consoles. If this wasn't the case how come oblivion or even morrowind whom many consider the best game in the entire franchise not nearly sell close to what skyrim did....
Franchuzas87
Member
The Praiseworthy
Member
FFVII impact the industry with ambition story and characters and the scale of the world... It helped to shape the future RPG games till this day.
And please don't quote my avatar
And please don't quote my avatar
Sega had a similar impact with an emphasis on marketing and cutting edge graphics. Much of Sega's effort to market the Genesis/Mega Drive as a cutting edge and adult device with mind-blowing graphics was copied by Sony a few years later with the PS1.
Juuuuust a bit.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
I... wait, people say FF7 impacted the industry more than the game that defined a whole generation in design and gameplay?
Seen mentions of Quake, and I agree with those who say that these three games are the most important games of that time.
However, I haven't seen any mention of QW, which I'd argue is the reason why Quake had the largest impact of any game the last twenty years, it made online gaming a real thing. Adding the controls, visuals, and engine on top of that makes it even clearer "winner" to me.
However, I haven't seen any mention of QW, which I'd argue is the reason why Quake had the largest impact of any game the last twenty years, it made online gaming a real thing. Adding the controls, visuals, and engine on top of that makes it even clearer "winner" to me.
I really don't see it. Compared to how CoD homogenized the whole industry and overreaching genres, these two games hardly matter. Even for their respective times, Quake's influence can be seen far more clearly.
Games being marketed for their presentation and graphics?
That's new to FFVII somehow?
Were you born the day the 1rst commercial for FFVII aired or something?
Virtually every game advertised on that.
OoT was advertised that way, SM64 was too, Sonic was advertised that way.
Common line being "best graphics ever!" or some shit like that.
And really what does this
have to do with this
or this
I'll be here all day.
Oblivion was closer to cutting edge when it came out than Skyrim was.
Word of mouth is also something that really did well for Skyrim unlike Oblivion whose reception was less overwhelmingly positive.
On top of that Oblivion was at first released on pc (requiring a more demanding configuration than Skyrim, further limiting its audience) and a just released 360 that was so far from its peak it's not even funny.
it released a year later on ps3.
Morrowind was a pc game and wasn't present on ps2 anyway and thus more obscure than a game like Skyrim that was a pc/360/ps3 release.
There's multiple circumstances that explains why Skyrim would be more popular than ES last 2 installment it's not even funny, that you choose that it was because Elder Scrolls finally followed the footsteps of FFVII (in what way we'll never know) is all kinds of funny.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Seriously, games have been advertised with a focus on how awesome their graphics are for a long... LONG time. DKC here is literally only being put forward in this ad as a marvel in graphics technology. And hey, it sold around the same as FF7... so I guess DKC is the real game changer here.
No you see Rare had time travel technology so they obviously used their tech to make games more awesome and ripped FFVII's advertising campaign!
It's like people know that Super Mario 64 is the clear answer here, yet they come with some silly reasons why FF was the one with the bigger impact.
As mentioned before by others, Zelda Ocarina of Time's influence alone dwarfs whatever FF7 brought to gaming, and you seriously are giving the later credit for things that other games probably had way more impact.
As mentioned before by others, Zelda Ocarina of Time's influence alone dwarfs whatever FF7 brought to gaming, and you seriously are giving the later credit for things that other games probably had way more impact.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
i mean read the thread or just do some basic reading and googling on the subject in general
FFVII impact the industry with ambition story and characters and the scale of the world... It helped to shape the future RPG games till this day.
And please don't quote my avatar
FF6's story was just as ambitious, had better characters, a better villain, and just as large of an overworld. FF7 was basically building on what FF6 already put in place.
Also if you didn't notice, FF now isn't even like what FF7 was. Let alone western RPGs.
You're just wrong on every point unfortunately :/
Calamari41
41 > 38
The other thing, upon reading your last post again, is that current AAA game advertising is ripped wholesale from the way movies are advertised, not the way FF7 was advertised.
The equivalent of a FF7 style ad for Assassin's Creed III would be a picture of Connor doing something random from a cutscene with "He's to humans what headlights are to a deer" captioned on it. That wouldn't fly.
Emulated Hype
Member
Innovations in 3D gaming were coming with or without FF7 or Mario64. Both games nailed fomulas that dramatically influenced their respective genres until the next big thing came along and iterated on a formula again.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves though. Controlling a camera in a 3D space with face buttons is nearly as awkward as actually moving with a D-pad. Hell, if you're a pc gamer, you've likely been playing 3D games for over a decade with WASD, so sticks have been a non-factor. Point-and-clicks and RPGs with complicated stories and cinematics were around before FF7.
How much arbitrary influence to modern adventure games like Heavy Rain and The Walking Dead should we attribute to Dragon's Lair? If anything it's QTEs have been nearly as far reaching as analog movement, the proliferation of real-time cutscenes has brought OTEs to the forefront of gaming in such a way that it's a completely unavoidable storytelling crutch at this point.
My problem isn't with giving credit to Kitase and Miyamoto for the landmark innovations that they've accomplished. My problem is with retroactively giving kudos to them for all of the successive innovations on their formulas which followed.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves though. Controlling a camera in a 3D space with face buttons is nearly as awkward as actually moving with a D-pad. Hell, if you're a pc gamer, you've likely been playing 3D games for over a decade with WASD, so sticks have been a non-factor. Point-and-clicks and RPGs with complicated stories and cinematics were around before FF7.
How much arbitrary influence to modern adventure games like Heavy Rain and The Walking Dead should we attribute to Dragon's Lair? If anything it's QTEs have been nearly as far reaching as analog movement, the proliferation of real-time cutscenes has brought OTEs to the forefront of gaming in such a way that it's a completely unavoidable storytelling crutch at this point.
My problem isn't with giving credit to Kitase and Miyamoto for the landmark innovations that they've accomplished. My problem is with retroactively giving kudos to them for all of the successive innovations on their formulas which followed.
Tidus_Great
Banned
OOT had a bigger impact initially but FF7 shaped the industries future in a much more profound way IMO.
without story and presentation games would still be largely for kids.
MGS is to thank for that.
I probably like FF7 more than Mario 64 but this shit is crazy. Theres nothing revolutionary on FF7. Storytellingi n games always existed, cutscenes too. FF7 its just a more polished RPG but did nothing new. Mario 64 did it. I think a post from the first page said it very well: FF7 is evolutionary, Mario 64 is revolutionary.
Altered Juice
Member
mario impacted 3d gaming.
ffvii....just impacted rpgs
edit: a dude can go on an avatar quoting spree in this thread. shit lol
ffvii....just impacted rpgs
edit: a dude can go on an avatar quoting spree in this thread. shit lol
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Nice choice of words but you do know what year Spyro came out right?
I think the actual N64 was obsolete.
I feel like you're ignoring years of games. Wing Commander 3 released on PC in 94 and PSX in 96, every cutscene was FMV, fully acted by Mark Hamill inf front of green screens, had dudes in suits for the aliens, and every line of dialogue was fully voiced. It shipped on multiple CD's, and was arguably more adult content-eise than any Final Fantasy before or after.
Resident evil was fully voiced and had FMV and sold quite well. There were dozens if not hundreds of PC games with more adult content matter released before FF7, including RPGs.
FF7 is no more adult than FF6. It just has FMV cutscenes instead of in-engine and prerendered backgrounds instead of sprites. Its not even fully voiced.
The FF7 camp acts like FF7 dropped into a world where every game was at the same maturity and production level as Super Mario Bros. Its just not true.
I can't think of a single thing that FF7 did that wasn't, at best, a refinement of something some other game already did competently. Maybe it had the best summon animations yet or something...
Maybe, maybe not, but someone had to do it first anyway. Only a company making both hardware and software like Nintendo could have done it. The fact remains that Super Mario 64 single handedly fast-forwarded 3D controls several years into the future.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
I think if you boil down the game to indivual elements you would have a point. As a package, meaning the sum of it's parts, FF VII was nothing short of revolutionary. It certainly changed the way I looked at games and what I thought was possible with them.
Did you not play anything before FF7? There were games doing everything it did well before its release.
Oh this is a "my favorite" type of post.
Yeah.
Once again, this is not about what's your favorite. This is about what's most objectively revolutionary for the industry.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
Many, many games. Everything just clicked with me with that game. I don't think that's a farfetched statement to make.
As long as it's your opinion, it's fine, though I must say that your opinion is wrong...
at least from my point of view
Shadow_FFVI
Member
Well, I quoted someone for a reason. It was in response to someone who I think was being very reductive. Judging a game by it's individual elements is a disservice to FF VII or any game for that matter.
Also, this thread is not about which game was more revolutionary, strictly speaking. It's about which shaped/impacted the industry more. A game can make an impact on the industry without being revolutionary.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
FFVII wasn't nearly as revolutionary as people in this thread are making it out to be. It was Final Fantasy cranked to volume 11, to be sure, but it was still just an RPG doing RPG things with some sweet FMV and nice backgrounds.
Nothing close to Mario 64 had ever been done before, and nearly 20 years later it still stands as one of the greatest 3D platformers ever made.
I love FFVII, but this isn't even close. I'd choose MGS waaaay before FFVII in terms of storytelling on a console.
Nothing close to Mario 64 had ever been done before, and nearly 20 years later it still stands as one of the greatest 3D platformers ever made.
I love FFVII, but this isn't even close. I'd choose MGS waaaay before FFVII in terms of storytelling on a console.
In terms of actual gamecontent I'd say Mario 64. Because that game had many firsts that are still used often to this day.
In terms of more impact I am leaning a bit towards FFVII. I think that game was a major part of the succes of playstation, which shaped the market in a way we also see to this day.
Maybe there would be another game with similar features if Mario was not there (albeit later/less refined, who knows) and maybe PS would still be the major console by far without FFVII. But I think both had major impact in a very distinct way.
In terms of more impact I am leaning a bit towards FFVII. I think that game was a major part of the succes of playstation, which shaped the market in a way we also see to this day.
Maybe there would be another game with similar features if Mario was not there (albeit later/less refined, who knows) and maybe PS would still be the major console by far without FFVII. But I think both had major impact in a very distinct way.
SporeCrawler
Member
there is no "if" in history. Mario 64 shaped the way 3D games are today.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Again, though FF7 definitely helped the Playstation to succeed in a big way, it sold less than 10 million copies. It is not close to responsible for Sony selling 100 million consoles. The game wasn't a king maker. Super Mario Bros was a king maker, at 40-50 million in sales. Wii Sports was a king maker with around 80 million in sales. Final Fantasy 7? Mario 64 itself outsold it.
If you're looking at sales numbers as a reason that this game is one of the most important in history, you're flat out wrong.
If you want to go down this road, you might as well start a thread asking whether Mario 64 had more impact, or Sony's third party relations strategy did. Resident Evil, FF7, Gran Turismo, Crash Bandicoot, Twisted Metal, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania, Megaman, etc etc etc are the reasons the Playstation ran away with the generation. It wasn't just because of FF7.
From a game design perspective.. no question, Mario 64. From the perspective of FF7 being the game to truly push the Playstation brand, you can make the very real case that FF7 impacted the industry more. In fact I think that's a no-brainer. The CG commercial was the turning point for the Playstation in the West.
Tidus_Great
Banned
I'll be honest iwasn't much of a PC gamer so I dunno about all that. There may have been games that did story well before FF7 or dealed with mature subject matter but I think FF7 and MGS really brought it into the mainstream for consoles.
As for FF6 I completely disagree it is not on the same level of maturity as FF7. I'd actually say FF4 is the most mature pre FF7 final fantasy. FF7 had a huge hand in cinematic presentation in games. FF7 may not have been the first quality story driven game but it was certainly the one that got people in general to tak notice of the mediums potential for storytelling and cinematic attributes.
So maybe if we stuck just to consoles the FF7 was milestone in cinematics and storytelling that shaped the future of the console industry.
I need to ask this, based on how you're addressing this: Roughly how old are you?
Your point of reference sounds more like a reflection of a relatively young person who isn't separating their own experience from the trends in a wider field that predates them. I can say plainly that the storytelling and narrative of FF VII doesn't have much novelty compared to earlier works, in terms of influence. Or failing that at least, what specifics were carried from VII to a range of later games as you see it?