Its kinda odd that this has to be explain.
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The Order 1886 | Impressions Thread of not shooting the messenger.
- Thread starter BiGBoSSMk23
- Start date
$400 for Flower. Let's do this.
For people in the US concerned about value for their money, you can buy it from Target for 60. They have a deal where you can also buy a 20 dollar PSN card with it for 5 dollars. So 65 dollars gets you the game plus 20 in PSN credit. Beat the game in a day or two and sell it on Ebay or Amazon easily for 55 bucks used. After 2 dollars in shipping and about 6-8 in fees to Ebay/Amazon, you'll get back about 45 dollars. Combined with the 20 you also have in PSN credit and you come out even, except you also got to play The Order.
I'm one of the ones who got pretty disappointed after learning about the length, but I already preordered it digitally so I'll make the best of it. I know I'll enjoy the gameplay, just kinda sucked to learn about how long the game is and how much cutscenes there are. Probably shoulda waited til a Pricedrop, but my PS4 is usually an exclusives machine (I still say this, but I went crazy on PS4 game buying the last month, I got ALOT of multiplat stuff now rofl) and The Order would be decent to tide me over til Bloodborne. either way I picked up MH4 recently so that should compliment The Order well until Bloodbarne comes out atleast
I feel like there's a major missed opportunity with how the cutscenes are handled (like in every other game). You'd figure that having the cutscenes rendered real-time, in engine, would allow them to be creative but seemingly not.
if you really want to blend cinematics and gameplay you have to do more than just make them look the same. How awesome would it be if they took 20 seconds at the beginning of every cutscene to reference what you did as a player in the last section. "Galahad, your coat is bloodied", "You should see the other guy, Isi". "Galahad, you dropped your pistol? Here, take mine". Something as simple as that could be so immersive. A true blending of cinematics and gameplay, where player agency carries forward even when they put their controller down.
if you really want to blend cinematics and gameplay you have to do more than just make them look the same. How awesome would it be if they took 20 seconds at the beginning of every cutscene to reference what you did as a player in the last section. "Galahad, your coat is bloodied", "You should see the other guy, Isi". "Galahad, you dropped your pistol? Here, take mine". Something as simple as that could be so immersive. A true blending of cinematics and gameplay, where player agency carries forward even when they put their controller down.
Dictator93
Member
What does this mean at this point anymore? I see this phrase being thrown around a lot in this thread to describe some sort of styling or gameplay structure... but how are people using this?
I think of like how they handle melee and camera angles.
Fbh
Member
You also make choices in non QTE style games.
Take something like the campaign in Halo.
You are constantly making gameplay related choices. Should you try to get close and kill the enemy with a shotgun? Or stay behind with a Sniper rifle and kill everyone?, Or lure them into a smaller area to kill them with a granade? Or try to take one of the vehicles from the enemies?
Your interaction with the action and choices (even if on a small scale) are what make the experience unique an fun
DarthWalden
Banned
So what's the final word on the length of this game?
I've heard anywhere from 5-16 hours.
I've heard anywhere from 5-16 hours.
I direct link to a post where you thought it necessary to point out his hobbie was odd though... it clearly goes beyond just about what you're saying it is, and you're backtracking on what you originally said.
Yup, this. Some of the QTEs offer you a choice of action, but that is about it.
ArkkAngel007
Member
Do I get cross platform and cross saves?
I actually have not played Flower. Just one of those games that fell off the radar somehow despite all the attention.
______
Not sure if answered, but how is difficulty handled? So far all I've seen is the player taking more damage. Are enemies more resistant to damage? Looked like the
Lycans
where did he ever say watching playthroughs of video games was a hobby of his
The only thing so far that disappoints me a bit, before actually playing the game, is the melee. I don't really like that it only triggers a small secuence of Galahad taking down enemies.
I wouldn't mind them if they were only stealth kills or finishing moves. I hope the sequel, if there's ever one, implements a proper melee.
I'm actually pretty fine with the cinematic aspect. It's just that the rest of the game doesn't counterbalance it enough.
It wouldn't take much to bring the game from "Decent/Good" to "Stellar" in my book considering the material they work with; Having a more intricate level design that spans more than "path A or slightly around path A", use the enemies they designed to be more interesting when it comes to their AI and gimmicks, add more types of grunts, be more flexible with weapons and their synergies and possibly add more cool gadgets that you actually use in combat or situations that call for it.
With that, it would already be pretty damn cool I think and it would be well worth the price.
It wouldn't take much to bring the game from "Decent/Good" to "Stellar" in my book considering the material they work with; Having a more intricate level design that spans more than "path A or slightly around path A", use the enemies they designed to be more interesting when it comes to their AI and gimmicks, add more types of grunts, be more flexible with weapons and their synergies and possibly add more cool gadgets that you actually use in combat or situations that call for it.
With that, it would already be pretty damn cool I think and it would be well worth the price.
ArkkAngel007
Member
There is no final word. Depends on how people are playing and on what difficulty. Looks like those just punching through on normal are closer to that above low point on that range, but those on Hard (recommended difficulty) seem to be getting more milage out of it to what the expected completion was.
Yup, that is quite inelegant. Reminds me of The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex Human Revolution.
It depends. There are clear things one can judge about the game from watching a vide
Visuals. Art style, Music etc.. Also other things like encounter variety, combat options available , enemey variety, level design etc.. The only thing one cannot clearly judge are the actualy quality of the available mechanics such as quality of gun play etc.
Of course there's a difference. But that doesn't change the fact that an experienced gamer can watch a Twitch stream and gather enough info very quickly and determine if the game is something they'd want to spend full price on, or even play at all for that matter. And for info that's hard to ascertain merely by watching the stream (framerate, how tight the controls are etc) you can simply ask the streamer. More often than not, if there's an issue with those aspects of the game the streamer will comment on it anyway.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Just watched a complete walkthrough and the game is exactly what i thought it would be. Its more movie/experience than game - dont expect a Gears or war. And Its indeed very short - 5 hours and 20 min (including cutscenes and later chapters are only a 5-10 min cutscene and thats it (no gameplay at all)).
RedAssedApe
Banned
One ytber posted. 5-6hr play thorough. A few other people have tagged it as being a few hours more than that give or take depending on difficulty and if you try and get collectibles and such. My guess it's going to be about the length of a cod campaign for most ppl.
There was a time when I would have been super excited for a game like this, but I dunno I think my tastes have just moved on. The linear, handholdiness plus lack of any obvious gameplay innovation is just super off putting to me these days. They also haven't grabbed my attention with story which is another problem. Still, I can see myself giving it a shot when it goes down in price if people keep speaking highly of it.
So your pie costs around $120?
Again this aspect is very difficult to judge from watching videos or asking a streamer. For example I love KZ2 gunplay. I think it is the best gunplay in a shooter of the last gen and even this gen. However I know there are others who think the gun play is laggy, slow and too unresponsive. So how would a streamer's opinion on gunplay necessarily match up with mine in that case? I think the way a game controls is difficult to judge from streams or some comments from a random streamer. Of course if you know the streamer well and alligned with his/her opinion before than yeah maybe you could arrive at a conclusion about mechanics but otherwise I dont see any value in taking an opinion of a random streamer..
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I love short games too. Always have.
Even if the order is like you describe, that doesn't mean AAA as a whole is doing that. AAA as a whole is much more likely to be 'open world' filled with mindless fetch quests and collectathons. Focused, linear, story heavy games are not nearly as common IMO and certainly to me there is space in the market for them. If they aren't your taste, there are plenty of other options around.
Miles Quaritch
Member
This is true, but it's just as true that someone watching the game is still getting an experience of the game that allows them to form an opinion that's just as valid as the person is playing.
You can't discount the opinion of someone watching the game because the game offers multiple choices. They are experiencing one play through of the game, just as the person playing is. That is more than enough for the viewer to hold an opinion that' s just as valid as the player.
The multiple choices are besides in the point in forming an opinion based on watching someone playing the game. If they cared about making the choices themselves, they'd be playing the game rather than watching.
My point is that some games lend themselves more to allowing people to form opinions from watching someone play than others.
I agree in general terms, but I don't agree that someone watching a game being played doesn't have as valid an opinion than someone playing when it comes to certain games.
Could someone watching Ninja Gaiden and have an opinion that's as valid as someone who has played the game? Absolutely not. Can someone watch Heavy Rain being played and have an opinion that's as valid as the person playing? Yes.
That pie is going to take about 75-80 hours to complete all up so....Yes?
SolidSnakex
Member
People don't care about campaign length if the actual game is good. The original Modern Warfare is well loved even though it only takes about seven hours to complete. ICO is viewed as one of the best games ever made, yet it's only a six and a half hour game.
Shadow of the Colossus really isn't that long either and it's considered a masterpiece, as is Journey
And what is the reasoning for saying No to one game and Yes to another?
Yes. Yes.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Serious question? About those two games?
Edit. Ok ill take you on face value.
Heavy Rain is, for all intents and purposes, an interactive movie/cutscene. Watching someone play it through on YouTube is effectively the same as you playing it without you actually pushing a button every now and again.
Ninja Gaiden is a hard as nails, balls to the wall action game. It demands the best of your reflexes, patience and skill.
But even more so, Ninja Gaiden can be played badly. Heavy Rain cant. So you can watch a person on Youtube playing NG horribly. But you can also watch them playing it skillfully. It will be completely different both times. But in Ninja Gaiden you need to experience the thrill of playing yourself. The controls, the "feel" of it to get that enjoyment.
Heavy Rain you don't. Just watch playthroughs of each ending done and you've played it all without getting the platinum.
Acquiescence
Member
I agree with what you're saying and who you're replying to, but Journey isn't the best example, since that game cost... what, 10 or 15 dollars? Not comparable to the $60 you have to hand over for The Order.
That, and Shadow of the Colossus was actually very innovative at the time, and you could unlock some special stuff. I was about to bring the comparison as it's also my favourite game. Even though I don't replay it that much, I like to replay it once per year or so because it uses what it has so damn well
So The Order makes up about 10-15% of the pie?
Miles Quaritch
Member
One being more gameplay focused and the other being more story focused with not as much input required from the gamer compared to the other.
RSB
Banned
Exactly.
For example, I remember a scene in Beyond Two Souls, where
I (controlling Aiden) decided to sabotage Jodie's date.
like shit (in the good sense, LOL)
At least with The Last of Us, reviews were like a week before release, and that put a lot of the concern to rest.
How does a person know the the feel of the combat in Ninja Gaiden without playing it? How can they master the skill of dodges and combos without doing it themselves? How can they have the same satisfaction of beating a hard boss by watching someone else doing it?
How does a person know the the feel of the combat in Ninja Gaiden without playing it? How can they master the skill of dodges and combos without doing it themselves? How can they have the same satisfaction of beating a hard boss by watching someone else doing it?
But the gameplay in Heavy Rain is making decisions that affect the outcome. It's one of the very few games that does what so many games claim.
Are we getting into semantics really? He said it's an odd way to spend your free time. That's a dick thing to say given the context. He then tried to spin it and say he wasn't saying watching videogames is odd but instead formulating an opinion based off a video is odd... which btw you can get a very good idea of what a game is like from watching videos.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I've edited my post which sorta replies to this too.
It's a little disappointing to hear about prevalent QTEs. In most games, QTEs are just lazy game design. I don't mind button prompts in combat so much if they are predictable - e.g., TLOU - but during cut-scenes it can be a annoying and pointless.
QTEs are not game-breaking by any means, and if The Order has great atmosphere and other mechanics then it'll still be great. Another potential annoyance is how they handle linearity. Hopefully, it's like TLOU where the levels allowed exploration and there was no one telling you where to go every step of the way.
QTEs are not game-breaking by any means, and if The Order has great atmosphere and other mechanics then it'll still be great. Another potential annoyance is how they handle linearity. Hopefully, it's like TLOU where the levels allowed exploration and there was no one telling you where to go every step of the way.
And it was Naughty Dog coming off of their best game. RAD is not exactly proven, especially when their claim to fame is good handheld versions of someone else's franchise.
Nobody says they do, but I've already explained this. From watching the order videos and playthroughs you can take this from it.
- it's very linear, and it does A LOT of hand holding
- there is a lot of breakup in the gameplay due to cutscenes, QTEs, and on rail sections
- The game is relatively short and it's hard to find incentive to replay it given the lack of variety in gameplay
- mostly tight and narrow corridors with stop-pop-cover style game play etc.
There's more you can take from videos, but I'm just giving you an idea.
SolidSnakex
Member
ND were coming off Uncharted 3. And making a good game based off someone elses franchise isn't something that's easy to do. Go play Daxter and then go and play Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier.
Did they make TLOU after Uncharted 2?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Which is why watching someone play NG is useless if you're looking to form an opinion that will be as valid as the person playing, whereas watching someone play Heavy Rain isn't.
Yes, making choices is a core part of the game, but that doesn't make watching someone else play it and experiencing their choices useless and it doesn't mean your opinion, as someone who has watched the game rather than played it, are any less valid.
Thanks for this. I haven't played the game yet but from what I gather it feels fair. I also had a small, MGS-like exclamation mark appear above my head when you mentioned the pacing was like an MGS game! Droves of people here love MGS, and it is LITTERED with ludicrously long cut scenes and conversations, for better or worse. So ponder on that.
The Order sounds more and more like quite a uniquely designed and well paced game, and it is one I'm personally very excited about experiencing. And that's what it is, an experience. Some of my favourite games have been "experiences", Journey & Dear Esther as examples. Those games got shot down by some for being short, or not having a constant stream of "gameplay", and frankly that's ludicrous. Gaming is an interactive medium but that does not mean you have to constantly be interacting with some kind of game mechanic every second of your time with the game. I appreciate solid and fun mechanics, we all do, but there is, can, and should be more to gaming than just that. I want to experience a high quality audio visual story and to viscerally feel part of it which is something a good movie perhaps cannot do, and which gaming has the opportunity to so why not take it.
If the game doesn't float your boat then fine, move on. I feel like some people seem to feel entitled, that if there's a AAA game being made with a high budget then "it MUST cater to ME!"
That's just silly. We need variety in our games. As more and more games become about stats and levelling up endlessly while repeating the same thing over and over (online MP games in general, or something like Destiny) we need games that can rediscover just what it's like to have a tailored experience that takes you on an auteurs journey. Gaming can happily accommodate both, but conversely that doesn't mean that all games must accommodate the tendencies of every single gamer out there. Some games will be for you, some won't, and the less we bitch about what other people happen to like, the better.
The Order sounds more and more like quite a uniquely designed and well paced game, and it is one I'm personally very excited about experiencing. And that's what it is, an experience. Some of my favourite games have been "experiences", Journey & Dear Esther as examples. Those games got shot down by some for being short, or not having a constant stream of "gameplay", and frankly that's ludicrous. Gaming is an interactive medium but that does not mean you have to constantly be interacting with some kind of game mechanic every second of your time with the game. I appreciate solid and fun mechanics, we all do, but there is, can, and should be more to gaming than just that. I want to experience a high quality audio visual story and to viscerally feel part of it which is something a good movie perhaps cannot do, and which gaming has the opportunity to so why not take it.
If the game doesn't float your boat then fine, move on. I feel like some people seem to feel entitled, that if there's a AAA game being made with a high budget then "it MUST cater to ME!"
That's just silly. We need variety in our games. As more and more games become about stats and levelling up endlessly while repeating the same thing over and over (online MP games in general, or something like Destiny) we need games that can rediscover just what it's like to have a tailored experience that takes you on an auteurs journey. Gaming can happily accommodate both, but conversely that doesn't mean that all games must accommodate the tendencies of every single gamer out there. Some games will be for you, some won't, and the less we bitch about what other people happen to like, the better.