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[Toxi]

The hair is kinda funky and not in a good way.

Mohawks aren't a new thing for Storm.

 

[-Cwalat-]

It's interesting to me the justifications that can come up for sexist designs. In this very thread, we have:

-It's the artist's creative decision and shouldn't be criticized (which isn't how art works)
-They're catering to a financial model of success, which means they need to cater to what males want (blatantly sexist and also undermines the "creative vision" excuse)
-They're catering to cosplay and figure sales (again, directly undermines creative vision if this is a significant influence)

Just because an artist made a choice doesn't mean it was a good decision and can't be criticized.

It's not disrespectful to art. If an artist's reason for a choice was "because hot women have big tits and I want to see them as much as possible", it doesn't deserve my respect. "It sells more" doesn't deserve my respect. "I only want girly girls" doesn't deserve my respect.

You can't place restrictions on art criticism under the veil of "protecting art". A choice is inherently a choice between multiple options--it's naive to think that the artist always makes the right choice OR that the artist's choice is sacred.

Don't know why you'd post those comments and make it seem i mentioned anything remotely close.

I didn't mention any other reasons for my disagreement with the choice for the redesigns took place other than the hidden agenda of the concept artists to paint the original artists as having a "wrong" view of women and having made "wrong" choices on how to portray them in their art pieces and that they are sexist towards women.

I don't think these are sexist designs at all. I don't think they make fun of women or discriminate women. To the contrary, personally, i think they showcase the beauty of women and the human body. Portraying a character sexually doesn't mean they automatically discriminate that gender.

I'm not against criticizing the art at all, you seemed to miss my point. You and those concept artists and everyone else for that matter, are free to criticize any thing and everything. Nothing is safe from scrutiny, but i don't like the dictatorial pushover attitude that some know how a specific gender ought to be portrayed and that's the way it should be from now on.

I'm for every artist deciding for themselves how they want to portray their characters. There are many designs of female and male protagonists that don't have sexual tone to their designs, and i'm okey with that 100%. I'm also okey with sexual toned designs 100% of both male and female characters.

I stand corrected, you are absolutely right. There is no restriction to criticism, they ofcourse should be able to criticize the piece. What i don't agree with is the obvious agenda behind it. I absolutely think it's disrespectful to insinuate that the original artists are sexists for drawing their female characters in a sexual tone. They don't know the artists and i for one highly disagree with that insinuation and would bet my life savings that the artists are for true gender equality. As most every rational human being is.

You are correct, it's not disrespectful to art to criticize it. It's insinuating that the piece has a sexist goal by design of the artist that created the piece that is.


-"because hot women have big tits and I want to see them as much as possible"

Again, another speculative argument that holds no ground. There are women who have large breasts. What's wrong with that? The majority? Probably not, but who says you have to draw any character any specific way. I mean i just don't agree with that point. Not all men have body builder status ripped bodies? Do some have them, yeah. Majority? Probably not, but who says you have to draw any character as to comply with the majority of how the gender looks in reality or that the artist for that matter has to accept realism in his art pieces, these are mainly fictional characters that hold no ground in reality and are portrayed in fictional world with many fictional situations.

I agree with you that artists that create pieces only with $ in mind do it for the wrong reasons, but that's just my personal opinion. I don't want to dictate how or why they put out any of their pieces. It's not my place to step in and tell them otherwise.

I'm far from saying that any choice is sacred or that the artist makes the "right" choice. I'm saying per definition, there is no "right" choice in art.

 

[mullet2000]

Over time, the Quiet design has grown on me. It's a pretty striking design, sex appeal included. I hope the explanation isn't too contrived (as in a hopeless attempt to ground it); I'm perfectly fine with it being another one of Kojima's flashes of (sexualized) magic realism.

Also Paz and the BB Corps weren't even bad designs, although the latter were lacking in memorable characterization MGS bosses are expected to have.

I wish I could say the same. Over time I've honestly found myself rolling my eyes harder at it than I did a year or two ago, even. I'm also insanely curious to see the "reason" for her dressing that way that Kojima is flaunting because I just need to see what that justification is. I don't think it'll live up to what he's hoping it'll live up to at all.

Honestly, I think the "striking-ness" of Quiet comes much more from Stefanie Joosten's face rather than the character design/clothing.

 

[televator]

Boy you got that right.

That's not from either of those games is it?

 

[Crossing Eden]

We also haven't seen the reason for her wearing that outfit.

Yes, Kojima made her, like most of the main characters, sexy. But we both know he wouldn't go this far in depicting such an outlandish design just to be sexy, especially not as the main outfit, it goes against everything he's done before.

So all I'm saying is we reserve judgement, if the reasoning isn't good enough, then I'll happily join the "this design was a mistake" train.

Of course you and anyone else are free to think and do what you want, that's just how I'm dealing with it right now.

Looking at his most recent work is why i'm not confident that she will be a well written awesome main character. The beauty and the beast unit for one, as in 1-dimensional boss characters who had to have their backstories explained for five minutes after their defeat. Or Paz, a character who multiple characters lusted after and is sexualized despite her being 16, Chico makes sense, he's a child, that makes sense, Dr Strangelove however, no no no, she's a full adult groping a child. And the "it's made in Japan thing" doesn't even fly here, these aren't Japanese characters.

O...k? What do you believe about heavy-handed symbolism? You kinda just ended that train of thought. And it seems to be a very incomplete statement. What's your point?

Heavy handed symbolism imo is the worst way to do symbolism as the best examples of symbolism are those that are the most subtle about it. Something like the outfit changes in Black Swan for instance is brilliant symbolism. Being the audience over the head with the idea through the repetitive use of showing off a symbol imo is like using am megaphone to explain what you mean, just like having tons upon tons of exposition. This is getting way too off topic now. But that's my opinion on the matter.

EDIT: Is it pandering, when you pander to yourself? I think Kojima is just perverted.

Have you seen the ending to FF13:LR? I don't think that was meant for the audience. >.>

 

[Phocks]

Mohawks aren't a new thing for Storm.

I forgot all about that my b. The design would be pretty cool for a modern take on the time period in which she was an X-Man before being first lady of Wakanda, which i have little knowledge of because i can't keep up with the X-Men side of marvel

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Heavy handed symbolism imo is the worst way to do symbolism as the best examples of symbolism are those that are the most subtle about it. Something like the outfit changes in Black Swan for instance is brilliant symbolism. Being the audience over the head with the idea through the repetitive use of showing off a symbol imo is like using am megaphone to explain what you mean, just like having tons upon tons of exposition. This is getting way too off topic now. But that's my opinion on the matter.

Oh ok. But they only show her scar once so it's not...beating anyone over the head with it. And nothing wrong with exposition tbh.

But the Boss is probably the best designed female character out there IMO And she came from Kojima, so when he says there's a reason for Quiet dressing the way she does, I believe him.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Oh ok. But they only show her scar once so it's not...beating anyone over the head with it. And nothing wrong with exposition tbh.

But the Boss is probably the best designed female character out there IMO And she came from Kojima, so when he says there's a reason for Quiet dressing the way she does, I believe him.

In terms of symbolism shown over and over I didn't mean the scar as that's shown once. It's an example of heavy handed symbolism. I certainly wouldn't agree about her being the best designed female character.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

In terms of symbolism shown over and over I didn't mean the scar as that's shown once. It's an example of heavy handed symbolism. I certainly wouldn't agree about her being the best designed female character.

I dislike symbolism that's shown over and over again. After the first time it's literally beating someone over the head with it. Like Sunnys damn eggs. 'CHECK OUT THESE EGGS! LOOK SHE'S COOKING EGGS AGAIN! EGGGGGS! LOOK SHE FINALLY MADE EGGS!'.

And well, I'm hard pressed to think about another character that would be better than the Boss. She has a great back story, she isn't doing the mission for any man, as a character she has focus, in the MGS universe she helped stop WWII which is pretty damn awesome for a Woman of the time to be credited with, she can handle herself against a man, and she doesn't suffer any tropes that other females run into.(The best example I can think of is Lara Croft...and the developer said the player would want to protect her? Or something? Good lord what a disaster she is..).

 

[ExVicis]

Mohawks aren't a new thing for Storm.

That hair is fine. The hair in the fan redesign still ain't great though.

 

[Atilac]

Betty Boop looks great

 

[Toxi]

The hair still ain't great.

I can agree on that. I feel like mohawks always look ugly and weird.

 

[captainpat]

Meh, some good, some bad.

It's a shame they couldn't get some Japanese, or South Korean female concept designers. That would have been interesting to see.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I dislike symbolism that's shown over and over again. After the first time it's literally beating someone over the head with it. Like Sunnys damn eggs. 'CHECK OUT THESE EGGS! LOOK SHE'S COOKING EGGS AGAIN! EGGGGGS! LOOK SHE FINALLY MADE EGGS!'.

And well, I'm hard pressed to think about another character that would be better than the Boss. She has a great back story, she isn't doing the mission for any man, as a character she has focus, in the MGS universe she helped stop WWII which is pretty damn awesome for a Woman of the time to be credited with, she can handle herself against a man, and she doesn't suffer any tropes that other females run into.(The best example I can think of is Lara Croft...and the developer said the player would want to protect her? Or something? Good lord what a disaster she is..).

Her backstory has aspects of greatness, like the origin of the catchphrase "Who dares, Wins." But then there's the ridiculous stupidity she went through as she became more and more legendary that absolutely no one seems to question, namely the pregnancy thing. I actually think the Boss is pretty cool, the stuff she does in MGS3 at least. But I can't imagine that we will ever get an actual picture of her backstory. Specifically that mission.

 

[Superballs]

Well, her Zero Suit wasn't made for combat when it was originally conceived, iirc. It was just something she wore under the armor which made sense. So I wouldn't expect padding and armor like with the redesign.

This...I don't think the idea of the zero suit itself is wrong, but I think the problem with it is that it's shoehorned into the games as an excuse for samus to run around in a glorified neoprene bodysuit.

Personally I love that samus is hot and all, but I prefer her to be in her armor as much as possible. if she were stuck in her zero suit and needed to take on some peeps the redesign males sense.

Peach was horrid. Whilet she doesn't need to be a damsel in distress, I don't find anything about her physical design that needs to change. I mean as a character she has abilities that make her stand out and be special. In fact, I think she is often a favorite in SMB2 because of this abilities and her drawbacks don't detract from them much at all.

The problem with peach is her frequent role in the game has made her and archetypal damsel in distress. In the odd game, sure, I mean Mario and Luigi need rescuing sometimes, the toads sometimes, Rosalina didn't need to be rescued but was helped by mario, but otherwise is pretty strong on her own.

In all, over the years, I think the mario franchise treats female characters fairly, mush more so than before, but there is still room for improvement.

The rest of the designs I thought were awesome, and I'm glad they didn't touch Bayonetta.

 

[Toxi]

And then the Boss became a robot because fuck Peace Walker.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

While I'm not a fan of the traditional Scarlet Witch design, the proposed redesign in the article is worse - mostly due to the laziness of it. A loose fitting top and a red skirt? There's absolutely no imagination put into that what so ever. I want fictional superheroes to stand out (not necessarily in a sexualized way), not look like someone that just walked into Goodwill.

This one stood out to me too. The traditional Scarlet Witch design was pretty powerful and intimidating. This redesign just looks like some smelly hippy you'd see on the bus. It's boring and forgettable.

 

[Palculator]

Oh ok. But they only show her scar once so it's not...beating anyone over the head with it. And nothing wrong with exposition tbh.

But the Boss is probably the best designed female character out there IMO And she came from Kojima, so when he says there's a reason for Quiet dressing the way she does, I believe him.

It's not even just simply a scar that's Snake shaped as a reference to Naked Snake. The Boss mentioned that ever since that C-section she had to endure constant pain due to the result of botched emergency battlefield medicine and subsequent coma. And her being in constant pain while being a source of inspiration and JOY (GET IT?!) to her fellow soldiers ties into the overall motif of her as an elite soldier that is willing to even sacifice her own life, image and well-being for the sake of her people.

So sure, that scar is way to big but it's in line with the situation it came from, the size helps to illustrate that you'd likely be fucked up from whatever caused that scar. It fits thematically more than it does realistically.

There's likely even more to be said about it. In my experience subtlety is more often in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Crossing Eden]

And then the Boss became a robot because fuck Peace Walker.

Literally forgot that this was a thing.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Her backstory has aspects of greatness, like the origin of the catchphrase "Who dares, Wins." But then there's the ridiculous stupidity she went through as she became more and more legendary that absolutely no one seems to question, namely the pregnancy thing. I actually think the Boss is pretty cool, the stuff she does in MGS3 at least. But I can't imagine that we will ever get an actual picture of her backstory. Specifically that mission.

I think the pregnancy thing/going into battle is the only silly thing. But I mean, she's a legendary soldier. To her fellow comrade her going into battle while being pregnant is just another way of being a badass legendary icon. 'Yeah I'm pregnant and I'm going to war. So what? I aim to win.'. She dared, she won. If anything it's empowering to be able to go into combat while pregnant, seeing there are people who think getting pregnant means having a normal life is normal. Boss being pregnant and going to war breaks that by saying "No it isn't. You have to keep doing what you believe."

It's not even just simply a scar that's Snake shaped as a reference to Naked Snake. The Boss mentioned that ever since that C-section she had to endure constant pain due to the result of botched emergency battlefield medicine and subsequent coma. And her being in constant pain while being a source of inspiration and JOY (GET IT?!) to her fellow soldiers ties into the overall motif of her as an elite soldier that is willing to even sacifice her own life, image and well-being for the sake of her people.

So sure, that scar is way to big but it's in line with the situation it came from, the size helps to illustrate that you'd likely be fucked up from whatever caused that scar. It fits thematically more than it does realistically.

There's likely even more to be said about it. In my experience subtlety is more often in the eye of the beholder.

Yup, there is some subtlety to her situation(Considering that most people miss the fact that she never truly defected in the beginning, that she was always on the side of the USA because she kept repeating 'Loyalty to the End'.) that goes over alot of peoples heads.

 

[Betty]

Looking at his most recent work is why i'm not confident that she will be a well written awesome main character. The beauty and the beast unit for one, as in 1-dimensional boss characters who had to have their backstories explained for five minutes after their defeat. Or Paz, a character who multiple characters lusted after and is sexualized despite her being 16, Chico makes sense, he's a child, that makes sense, Dr Strangelove however, no no no, she's a full adult groping a child. And the "it's made in Japan thing" doesn't even fly here, these aren't Japanese characters.

Dr Strangelove is British and 16 is the legal age of consent in the UK, same for Cuba where the game takes place, you can consider paz a child if you want but legally she isn't (and as you know she's much older anyway). Besides Strangelove may have known paz was older, she's not exactly dumb, and in any case, Strangelove isn't even a terribly nice person, so even if she is a sleazeball it's in keeping with her character.

The only person that sexualizes paz is Kaz, because he sexualizes everything, christ sakes he and Big Boss have a fight in sauna naked on one of the tapes and go to the beach for a date... -_-.

And I love how you keep referencing how heavy handed MGS is with some of it's symbolism when it has so much that isn't, like the blue rose in mgs4, the entire post modern plot and hexagon dna repeating design of mgs2, or even the simple symbolism of losing an eye or limb.

Most video games don't even bother to have themes, let alone symbolism, I'm not saying MGS does it perfectly but compared to others it at least tries and succeeds most of the time.

And then the Boss became a robot because fuck Peace Walker.

Or someone created an AI modelled after The Boss, which is... totally different.

 

[Palculator]

Isn't Paz older than 16? Wiki says she's born in 1950 and Peace Walker happens in 1974. Or is it a "No I'm actually a 1000 year old loli vampire" thing?

Edit: http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Paz_Ortega_Andrade (Ground Zeroes spoilers, if anyone's bothered.)

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Isn't Paz older than 16? Wiki says she's born in 1950 and Peace Walker happens in 1974. Or is it a "No I'm actually a 1000 year old loli vampire" thing?

She's a spy, probably chosen to infiltrate mother base because of how she looks.

Even a character like Paz is a badass spy who steals a giant mech. And I don't like peace walker.

 

[Betty]

Isn't Paz older than 16? Wiki says she's born in 1950 and Peace Walker happens in 1974. Or is it a "No I'm actually a 1000 year old loli vampire" thing?

Edit: http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Paz_Ortega_Andrade (Ground Zeroes spoilers, if anyone's bothered.)

She's in her 20's, she just says she's younger to trick everyone into believing she's a mere schoolgirl and not the spy she is.

 

[kyser73]

The only one I actively disliked was Jean Grey/Phoenix.

Partly because I hate those long flowy medieval-style dresses, and partly because I don't think it fits with being a galaxy-destroying superbeing.

I really liked the idea behind Scarlett Witch having an updated Romani/Romany theme, I just didn't think much of the execution in this case...

But generally yeah, they're all pretty good. But then I'm not a teenage boy, so maybe my tastes on what make female characters sexy don't revolve around them wearing outfits that are three sizes too small and giving guaranteed cold nipple/cameltoe views.

 

[travisbickle]

The original images on the left are wow! "I read comics, I like boobiesss!"

 

[Palculator]

She's in her 20's, she just says she's younger to trick everyone into believing she's a mere schoolgirl and not the spy she is.

Eh, well then the criticism of Strangelove is kind of valid. If she thought she was 16 and still started groping her that's just as wrong on her part.

It's too bad Peace Walker is such a grind solo. Otherwise I'd be much more knowledgable about it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I think the pregnancy thing/going into battle is the only silly thing. But I mean, she's a legendary soldier. To her fellow comrade her going into battle while being pregnant is just another way of being a badass legendary icon. 'Yeah I'm pregnant and I'm going to war. So what? I aim to win.'. She dared, she won. If anything it's empowering to be able to go into combat while pregnant, seeing there are people who think getting pregnant means having a normal life is normal. Boss being pregnant and going to war breaks that by saying "No it isn't. You have to keep doing what you believe."



Yup, there is some subtlety to her situation(Considering that most people miss the fact that she never truly defected in the beginning, that she was always on the side of the USA because she kept repeating 'Loyalty to the End'.) that goes over alot of peoples heads.

It just seems as if it's written to give her a form of tragedy. There are so many different ways to have that scar besides a woman somehow having multiple instances of incompetence. Look up pictures of pregnant women, and then consider what the boss wears into battle. There's nothing empowering about literal stupidity. Going into battle while pregnant, is just plain stupid.

Dr Strangelove is British and 16 is the legal age of consent in the UK, same for Cuba where the game takes place, you can consider paz a child if you want but legally she isn't (and as you know she's much older anyway). Besides Strangelove may have known paz was older, she's not exactly dumb, and in any case, Strangelove isn't even a terribly nice person, so even if she is a sleazeball it's in keeping with her character.

The only person that sexualizes paz is Kaz, because he sexualizes everything, christ sakes he and Big Boss have a fight in sauna naked on one of the tapes -_-.

And I love how you keep referencing how heavy handed MGS is with some of it's symbolism when it has so much that isn't, like the blue rose in mgs4, the entire post modern plot and hexagon dna repeating design of mgs2, or even the simple symbolism of losing an eye or limb.

Most video games don't even bother to have themes, let alone symbolism, I'm not saying MGS does it perfectly but compared to others it at least tries and succeeds most of the time.

Most video games do have themes, a plot isn't written without a theme in mind. Most creators just don't explicit tell the audience what the theme is. That naked fight also wasn't sexualized, and Strangelove seducing Paz is still sexualization, although you're right about the age of consent being different. Even though she very clearly looks like a child. Not to mention the extremely pointless secret boss where's she in her underwear because reasons.

 

[Toa TAK]

Peace Walker is worth it just to see a disgruntled old man fight a young girl in a giant robot with jpop in the background.

 

[Betty]

Eh, well then the criticism of Strangelove is kind of valid. If she thought she was 16 and still started groping her that's just as wrong on her part.

It's too bad Peace Walker is such a grind solo. Otherwise I'd be much more knowledgable about it.

So then Strangelove is a bad person... which she kinda is, so... that's in keeping with her character.

 

[captainpat]

But generally yeah, they're all pretty good. But then I'm not a teenage boy, so maybe my tastes on what make female characters sexy don't revolve around them wearing outfits that are three sizes too small and giving guaranteed cold nipple/cameltoe views.

Y'know, making unnecessary jabs at people who may appreciate this stuff doesn't make you sound more mature either.

 

[Palculator]

So then Strangelove is a bad person... which she kinda is, so... that's in keeping with her character.

Yeah. I was criticising her, not the game. Should've been more clear, sorry.

(I fucking hate that Strangelove asshole because her torture scene was needlessly hard. Who the fuck requires such extreme mashing on the PSP?)

 

[Betty]

Most video games do have themes, a plot isn't written without a theme in mind. Most creators just don't explicit tell the audience what the theme is. That naked fight also wasn't sexualized, and Strangelove seducing Paz is still sexualization, although you're right about the age of consent being different. Even though she very clearly looks like a child. Not to mention the extremely pointless secret boss where's she in her underwear because reasons.

She's in her underwear because the cockpit on Metal Gear had to be submerged in water otherwise the pilot would be shaken and killed because the tech was still very new.

And I fully disagree that most games even come up with themes, they have a hard enough time creating more than a handful of characters, or interesting scenes or an interesting plot.

Even the ones that do have themes are terribly ordinary and dull, you can call MGS heavy handed, because it is a lot of the time, but the themes are at least a little unique.

Yeah. I was criticising her, not the game. Should've been more clear, sorry.

(I fucking hate that Strangelove asshole because her torture scene was needlessly hard. Who the fuck requires such extreme mashing on the PSP?)

To think it was censored in Japan due to the desire to get a Teen rating, lucky sob's.

After playing MGS1 so many times though, and that MGS4 microwave hallway too I guess, it's not terribly hard... but it is strenuous... which is kinda the point but c'mon Kojima, stop trying to give me carpal tunnel.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It just seems as if it's written to give her a form of tragedy. There are so many different ways to have that scar besides a woman somehow having multiple instances of incompetence. Look up pictures of pregnant women, and then consider what the boss wears into battle. There's nothing empowering about literal stupidity. Going into battle while pregnant, is just plain stupid.

Did you listen to what the Boss said during the game? That when you have loyalty to the end, you have to do everything for your country. That your friends don't matter, that even if you don't believe in the war, that you have to keep fighting. That despite what happens to your country, you have to be loyal to it. That that is what being a soldier is, that is what loyalty to the end means.

So her being pregnant...in fact it would be out of character if she DIDN'T go to war. It would be against her character and everything she stood for if she decided to wait for the child to be born. You say it's plain stupid, I say you just didn't pay attention to what the boss said, and you didn't pay attention to her characterization.

Again, you're nitpicking without context.

Edit-Hell she lets herself get killed by Snake in order to prove the USA's innocence. I don't think her being pregnant is a huge concern when going into battle.

Most video games do have themes, a plot isn't written without a theme in mind. Most creators just don't explicit tell the audience what the theme is. That naked fight also wasn't sexualized, and Strangelove seducing Paz is still sexualization, although you're right about the age of consent being different. Even though she very clearly looks like a child. Not to mention the extremely pointless secret boss where's she in her underwear because reasons.

Most games do have themes, but they're throwaway themes. Since MGS1 Kojima has been putting anti-war themes and themes about genetics into his games.And two men fighting naked..is pretty damn sexualized.

 

[Mental Atrophy]

That Samus design is really neat but I can't look at it as a zero suit replacement. The only thing that really needs changing with the zero suit is the breast area, and the heels in some renditions. Other than that it's representative of what it ought to be... space underoos so you can easily slide into the suit. Astronauts have uglier versions of this stuff.

 

[King Cobra]

Most of these designs are pretty damn ugly. I don't think zero suit samus would be as iconic as she is now if she looked like how they made her look there.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Most of these designs are pretty damn ugly. I don't think zero suit samus would be as iconic as she is now if she looked like how they made her look there.

Samus isn't iconic because of the fucking zero suit!

She's iconic because of this:

 

[TAJ]

I like how they made Scarlet Witch into an ethnic stereotype. Progress.

 

[King Cobra]

Samus isn't iconic because of the fucking zero suit!

She's iconic because of this:

I clearly said ZERO SUIT SAMUS would not be as iconic. As in that version of Samus would not be nearly as popular if it looked as ugly as they made her look.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I clearly said ZERO SUIT SAMUS would not be as iconic. As in that version of Samus would not be nearly as popular if it looked as ugly as they made her look.

My point is that Samus is not iconic because of that stupid blue suit, she's iconic because of the badass power suit. So nothing of value would be lost.

Not to mention, that art isn't remotely ugly, on the contrary. It's worthy of a Miyazaki character.

 

[King Cobra]

My point is that Samus is not iconic because of that stupid blue suit, she's iconic because of the badass power suit. So nothing of value would be lost.

Not to mention, that art isn't remotely ugly, on the contrary. It's worthy of a Miyazaki character.

Do you have trouble focusing on what others say?

I never said Samus was iconic for the zero suit, I am saying the the zero suit version would not be as popular if it looked as ugly as that.

Please, I know art is subjective but this reeks of "my body doesn't look like that so lets cover as much skin as possible so I feel more comfortable" that's all I see, I don't see save a few one or two meh designs all the other are just lazy and sloppy attempts to cover skin.

 

[captainpat]

Yea, there's no way that zero suit would be as popular as the original. At least not with the current gaming audience.

 

[Toa TAK]

Fuck Zero Suit Samus. It's all about that power armor. If people are really into seeing her without the suit in something tight, just see the game's ending. But I'd never hold up ZSS as a positive model for female characters, and the fact that it's iconic doesn't strike me or other women as a positive.

 

[Giever]

That's not particularly relevant is it? If anything, the fact that people talk about ZSS is even more reason she belongs in Smash. How often do you see a hundred page thread discussing Dr. Mario? Or Ice Climbers, outside of Smash threads?

It is relevant. People aren't bothered by Sheik or Dr. Mario so even if they're small-time characters in general there's no active reason not to include them.

Also, amount of discussion doesn't, like, equate to worthiness of being in the game. If Obama was in Smash that would garner a lot of discussion too.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Fuck Zero Suit Samus. It's all about that power armor. If people are really into seeing her without the suit in something tight, just see the game's ending. But I'd never hold up ZSS as a positive model for female characters, and the fact that it's iconic doesn't strike me or other women as a positive.

I really don't think the ZSS is iconic. Popular perhaps. But iconic? Nah. It's like the most generic bodysuit ever.

 

[kyser73]

I like how they made Scarlet Witch into an ethnic stereotype. Progress.

I looked at that as 'Nice idea, poor execution'.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Do you have trouble focusing on what others say?

I never said Samus was iconic for the zero suit, I am saying the the zero suit version would not be as popular if it looked as ugly as that.

I know you didn't say that. I am saying that it's irrelevant because the zero suit is not iconic to begin with. The zero suit is only popular because, as another poster put, it's a hot blonde in a skin-tight suit that leaves nothing to the imagination, not because it's cool or "iconic".

Please, I know art is subjective but this reeks of "my body doesn't look like that so lets cover as much skin as possible so I feel more comfortable" that's all I see, I don't see save few one or two meh designs all the other are just lazy and sloppy attempts to cover skin.

.....What

 

[Messofanego]

Do you have trouble focusing on what others say?

I never said Samus was iconic for the zero suit, I am saying the the zero suit version would not be as popular if it looked as ugly as that.

Please, I know art is subjective but this reeks of "my body doesn't look like that so lets cover as much skin as possible so I feel more comfortable" that's all I see, I don't see save a few one or two meh designs all the other are just lazy and sloppy attempts to cover skin.

Oh, so this is just insecure women complaining? lol c'mon

 

[WrenchNinja]

Samus isn't iconic because of the fucking zero suit!

She's iconic because of this:

nope not canon

this is your gravity suit now

 

[Shengar]

Seriously though, thread title is pretty bad. Too much of a generalization for the gender while some female designer have different perspective of what they want in game. Replacing women with female designer is much better.