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[GlamFM]

Well no, because it was cut by then.

I just think that after two years they could have adapted the space more. Rather than reheating it exactly as it was.

In this case I do not accept the term "false advertising".

E3 trailers are "work in progress". Stuff changes, don´t be complicated.

No it was not in commercials, they cannot use false advertising there without punishment.

They cleverly keep their lies to areas where they can get away with it.

Oh come on.... seriously.

So many games change between initial reveal and final release.

Your statement is ridiculous.

 

[kiguel182]

Do not agree, no.

You´re not entitled to it just because it was there

That has always been the weirdest thought to me.

It´s their content, they created it and they can sell it to you however they want.

When you buy it it does not really matter when it was done - before or after the game was released - it´s still the same content.

The difference is just in your head.

I agree with you in part but that's not what happened here. They used DLC material as promotional items for the main game.

They didn't show this and said "it's not on the main game, you'll have to pay for it later!". They just showed it as part of the 60 dollar package they sold.

I agree that devs can sell their content how they please and the order they make it is irrelevant. But showing something as part of the game (a game that is very light on content as it is) and then going "well, you'll have to pay extra for it" is not okay in my book.

 

[Moz]

I look forward to the eventual addition of the forest area.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Oh come on.... seriously.

So many games change between initial reveal and final release.

Your statement is ridiculous.

Oh Bungie are not the only ones, but two wrongs do not make a right.

Also many games acknowledge changes before release.

 

[BokehKing]

Still looking forward to it. But man it does make you think what else bungie have been holding back from us since 2013.

Was not aware you were entitled to things that were not ready for the public at the time?

 

[MJLord]

No it was not in commercials, they cannot use false advertising there without punishment.

They cleverly keep their lies to places where they can get away with it.

Doesn't not make it false advertising,and doesn't make it highly moral either.

You keep saying it but I don't see any links in your post. Comon man that's like the minimum you have to post for people to take you seriously.

 

[GlamFM]

Oh Bungie are not the only ones, but two wrongs do not make a right.

Also many games acknowledge changes before release.

Nothing wrong here. Game development is dynamic, not linear. Stuff changes. Deal with it.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

There has already been multiple threads about this. We all know 60 percent of all the dlc was there from the beta.

I have no idea what the hell bungies artists are doing, probably working on destiny 2,3,4,5

Careful... talk like that got me temp-banned in two other Destiny threads. My only two temp bans in two years of posting here. Of course the things I said were just a tad more over-the-top (tad being an understatement). Still, Destiny is a hot-button topic so its best to exercise discretion when voicing displeasure at how it's been handled.

Personally I'm not surprised by this in the least. As others have said we've had multiple threads about the issue with Destiny's drip-feed content structure. But thus far it's working for them (judging by the fact that it's still one of the top-played games).

If you tap into a certain part of the psych, the part that hits that gratification loop that loot games often go after, then a lot of other things typically get overlooked.

We, of course, don't know how COMPLETE this area of the game was in that signicantly older build, but we know that assets were there, that at least basic environmental geometry is on-disc (as evidenced by people glitching out of the map into areas we aren't supposed to have yet, complete with Ghosts to be found in them that are already interactive).

At the end of the day, though, none of that matters if people keep buying and playing it. As long as that sort of behavior is reenforced by paying customers, Activision and/or Bungie have no reason to change their tune.

I know for a fact I will not be purchasing Destiny 2. But I'm only one person. The "vocal minority" that are justifiably upset by the shenanigans going on here are still only a minority as far as I can tell, and the majority are driving sales and guaranteeing that these practices will continue for the forseeable future.

 

[Jacksinthe]

And even if it was 100% finished and ready to go 3 years ago (it was not) - what makes you think you were entitled to it when the game came out?

It absolutely up to the dev how and when they want to sell their product.

Your job is to decide for yourself if it´s worth it to you.

I think many people can judge what a proper level of content is for what they pay for. Games have been around a long time and there are, to a degree, acceptable levels of content for what you pay for.

Bungie: Let's flesh out the main content of the game.

Activision: It would be epic if we had a mission where you protect your ghost while fighting waves of enemies!

Bungie: That's a bit mundane but I suppose we can use that as a filler once in a great while. What else?

Activision: What do you mean "what else?"

 

[Kosma]

Next year they will announce Destiny 2 and swear that everything will be different. This time, only 80% of the content shown on the gameplay trailers will be cut.

Yeah pretty much

Someone ar activision went like "we can totally get away with a proof of concept game, look at ubisoft theyve been doing it for years"

Not gonna buy it

 

[Apt101]

Does this "new" hub lead to any new areas, or just new missions within existing locales? Perhaps, considering the game is so light on content, Bungie didn't have a way to incorporate this hub into game until now - they had to keep the Tower as the focal point to make their threadbare story coherent. I mean, what's the point of having a hub in The Rift if there's no missions, story elements, or anything else ready to explain to the players why they're there?

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Bungie has a track record of having to cut serious amounts of content from games before launch.

I'd they had released Halo 2 today, you can bet that large scale warfare mode would have been dlc, along with all the vehicles and weapons that didn't make it into the final game.

Kind of lines up with the rumours of cut story content as well. The story that launches was pathetic.

Bungie gonna bungie I'm afraid.

 

[kiguel182]

Nothing wrong here. Game development is dynamic, not linear. Stuff changes. Deal with it.

People were not happy with the content they released. That's the problem.

Stuff does change during development, it's normal. But when the final product delivers people don't care. Or when devs are upfront about it and explain what things are/aren't in the game.

Destiny was a game with bad final content, with plenty of cuts before release and one that was misrepresented up until launch day. That's why people are mad at them.

I'm the first guy here to defend devs when it comes to content changing and problems during development but when the product is as lacking as it is and when Bungie wasn't very open about the changes and whatnot then people that paid 60 dollars for a game that underwhelmed them get mad. It's natural.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Not sure why people are upset. You got a game at release and you know what is in there. You paid 60$ for that. What does it matter if Bungie had 50% more content already finished at that time? Are you entitled to that content? No, you knew what you are paying for.

I enjoyed the game for what it is for 3 months roughly and I definitely got my moneys worth. I'm not buying any further DLC because I do not think that the provided content is worth it. Simple as that.

 

[Apt101]

Not sure why people are upset. You got a game at release and you know what is in there. You paid 60$ for that. What does it matter if Bungie had 50% more content already finished at that time? Are you entitled to that content? No, you knew what you are paying for.

Well, I can't see the future, so no, I didn't know what I was paying for. However, I trusted Bungie that it would have a deep story, along with all of the other things they said about the game which turned out to be untrue. And never in my wildest dreams did I think a game that appeared so large and grand in the advertising would turn out to be so narrow and small.

Bungie did teach me some valuable lessons though: never, ever believe the hype, never preorder, and wait for exhaustive impressions of DLC before buying. They got me for $60 on the base game, but thankfully not for a penny more.

 

[Stallion Dan]

You keep saying it but I don't see any links in your post. Comon man that's like the minimum you have to post for people to take you seriously.

OP?

Nothing wrong here. Game development is dynamic, not linear. Stuff changes. Deal with it.

Nothing wrong with devs misrepresenting their games? I cannot take this discussion seriously.

I bet you thought Colonial Marines was amazing.

Not sure why people are upset. You got a game at release and you know what is in there.

Know what is in there, like the reef area they showed, or the areas like the swamps of chicago they told us about? Oh wait, no it wasn't in there and they didn't tell us before it released.

See why people not happy?

 

[Nabbis]

Nothing wrong here. Game development is dynamic, not linear. Stuff changes. Deal with it.

"Stuff changes" is no argument against critique, especially when a shitty product tries to hide behind it. Some people don't like Destiny. Deal with it.

Edit: I don't even know why im actually responding. No one is actually this dense when it comes to consumerism.

 

[Newtype-001]

Im still somewhat amazed bungie agreed to this...

Spoiler

Not really

 

[TrouzzzerSnake]

Fact: this is such an outrageously bullshit product that is guilty of just about everything heinous in the modern gaming sphere, so much so that I actively delete anyone on my friends list with the poor taste to partake in a fuckin cash-grab grind-fest

On point: news does not shock me - beta had more inaccessible content on file than finished game ever delivered.

 

[deadduck]

It is not that surprising. Unfinished content gets left on the cutting floor sometimes, but they can always go back and finish it for DLC, patches or a sequel.

Shhhh, don't you know people aren't meant to like Destiny?

Please no more balanced views on game development.

 

[LAA]

Not sure why people are upset. You got a game at release and you know what is in there. You paid 60$ for that. What does it matter if Bungie had 50% more content already finished at that time? Are you entitled to that content? No, you knew what you are paying for.

I enjoyed the game for what it is for 3 months roughly and I definitely got my moneys worth. I'm not buying any further DLC because I do not think that the provided content is worth it. Simple as that.

I don't believe anyone truly knew what they were getting. I didn't, I was expecting a campaign similar in length to a Halo, variety in missions and a story actually worth paying attention to. It felt it really was the way it was presented at E3 and etc. That gave these impressions. The beta was a bigger glimpse than we thought, but I just thought it was only showing those types of missions and there would be more missions on the planet and etc.

I don't really know what to believe tbh in terms of content being cut. I remember the guy with awoken queen being on earth in a trailer, never happened in game. I presume dlc. While it may have been cut for legitimate reasons, Bungie or Activision never really talked about it and make it seem this was the plan all along, and I don't really care for it, more so when the dlc on offer is poor in terms of content. I get house of wolves as I had the LE, so I'll be playing that, after that, I'm not planning on getting more. I'm not paying more for bungie to get a game closer to what I wanted, even then it's just to make it more of a grind fest, so really great, just in new areas and battling new bosses perhaps (most likely re skinned), is all thats different

 

[qa_engineer]

This is true for the first dlc as well. When destiny first came out several friends and I were able to glitch inside blocked off areas, specificially the Seraphim vault, and that too was identical to what was released months later as new content. Now that's not to say the "story" was already in place, but the areas sure as hell were

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Not sure why people are upset. You got a game at release and you know what is in there. You paid 60$ for that. What does it matter if Bungie had 50% more content already finished at that time? Are you entitled to that content? No, you knew what you are paying for.

I enjoyed the game for what it is for 3 months roughly and I definitely got my moneys worth. I'm not buying any further DLC because I do not think that the provided content is worth it. Simple as that.

Except we didn't. Do we know now? Yes. Did we know when we bought it? No.

After the beta, there were multiple people voicing concerns that the game would be lacking content-wise, and Bungie/Activision repeatedly reiterated "the content is there, wait for it, it's there! it's going to be epic! you'll be a legend!" (I'm obviously paraphrasing here).

So we took them at their word and purchased a game that you can see everything the game has to offer in a few days of solid play, minus the raid. The only value proposition is if you see value in needing to grind gear for dozens of hours in order to be raid-ready, because nothing else in the game truly requires that same end-game gear. Yes you need to be higher light level for nightfalls and heroics, but those are just the same old content you saw sub-level 20, with a higher difficulty (aka bullet sponge enemies and more damage). There wasn't any change in the content itself.

So you can breeze through the entirety of the woefully short campaign, do all the strikes, play some PvP, and be essentially DONE with the game within 20 hours or less. Then spend 50-100 hours grinding up to be raid-ready.

This was not the game we were promised with the plethora of false advertising and false promises leading up to it. Whether this content was truly 'playable' isn't really the point. Nor is whether this content was cut from the game to put back in later as paid-DLC. The point is the game has been content-sparse from day one, against all promises made to the contrary, and the DLC has been almost as lacking as the main game in the content department.

It's quite strange that the first DLC had a raid yet the main game only had one raid. You would think the main game would've had at least 2 or 3, if a "DLC" can have one, considering that's really the end-game stuff to begin with.

I know some people love Destiny and will defend it till their dying breath, and that's fine. But there are a lot of us who just felt swindled by the whole deal, that's all.

stuff

You should really edit that mate.

 

[squadr0n]

The Reef is seriously just a social space for the DLC LOL?

What is all the unused space in The Tower going to ever be used for lol! What a waste of time and money. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes for Destiny 2.

 

[TrouzzzerSnake]

You should really edit that mate.

I'm willing to go down for it - I already lurked for years

Censorship should never impede the slandering of such a poor product. I'll live on in word-of-mouth!

 

[lifeexpectancy]

I'm willing to go down for it - I already lurked for years

Censorship should never impede the slandering of such a poor product. I'll live on in word-of-mouth!

Ok just so long as you're aware. It does kinda suck if you feel like you can't say certain things, but I think it's not so much WHAT you say as HOW you say it round these parts. I got burned twice by getting frothy-mouthed over Destiny so it was just a friendly heads-up. I'm more tactful, but still honest in my critiques now.

 

[Deku Tree]

"Playable" is made up, of course.

But who cares, right?

We´re trying to start a fire here!



This is it. Everybody will ignore you BTW.

This. Total old non news IMO. It was shown off in a trailer along with other stuff that we haven't seen in the game yet. And some stuff that we have.

Everyone of us paying attention has known about the reef social space for a long time. Just because an environment was created long ago like most other games and Bungie showed it off doesn't make it "complete" or "playable" or even "identical".

 

[Muzicfreq]

And all the drive by shitting in this thread is stinking up the place

I personally think the build people were playing behind closed doors like Angry Joe for one was completely different and some of the things being put into this DLC sounds like they're adding that stuff in. They did get to see the 3rd talent tress and stuff as well as the upgrade paths.

I just have a feeling there's something more than what the mainstream internet "knows" and just came to a general conclusion by themselves without any 100% official source.

Then again I don't exactly listen to people on the internet as a reliable source unless they're from said companies making the stuff.

 

[Deku Tree]

A lot of the vendors in the reef are new and created in response to community feedback post launch, and contradict Bungies original stated plans for the game BTW.

For instance upgrading old VoG weapons and Armor is something that Bungie stated they previously had no plans to do but now because of player feedback it is happening in the queens bay reef social space.

 

[Ashler]

I would change the topic title from "playable" to "featured", its a bit misleading.

 

[squadr0n]

And all the drive by shitting in this thread is stinking up the place

I personally think the build people were playing behind closed doors like Angry Joe for one was completely different and some of the things being put into this DLC sounds like they're adding that stuff in. They did get to see the 3rd talent tress and stuff as well as the upgrade paths.

I just have a feeling there's something more than what the mainstream internet "knows" and just came to a general conclusion by themselves without any 100% official source.

Then again I don't exactly listen to people on the internet as a reliable source unless they're from said companies making the stuff.

I think your right for the most part. What build were you talking about that people saw behind closed doors where they played this and other stuff before release? Just wanted a read.

I'm personally someone that feels burned just from the lack of playable spaces, not story or better gear, just more stuff to do. I for one was hopeing the reef was another planet/space station with other playable areas around to the social space. I still purchased both DLCs so far btw.

 

[Twilight Gap]

remember when bungie first showed the tower?

obviously this was completely playable

wait a minute, maybe it wasn't finished

 

[TearsOfBlood]

It was a valuable lesson in terms of never again pre-ordering a game + DLC. The marketing hype machine did its job well.

Its a good game in terms of gameplay, but in terms of content? Oh boy.

 

[Orniletter]

Nothing wrong here. Game development is dynamic, not linear. Stuff changes. Deal with it.

"Things change" has to be one of the worst excuse I've heard for what Activision and Bungie did with Destiny.

Almost as bad as "think of the feelings of the devs who made The Order:1886"

 

[Muzicfreq]

I think your right for the most part. What build were you talking about that people saw behind closed doors where they played this and other stuff before release? Just wanted a read.

I'm personally someone that feels burned just from the lack of playable spaces, not story or better gear, just more stuff to do. I for one was hopeing the reef was another planet/space station with other playable areas around to the social space. I still purchased both DLCs so far btw.

I think it was before launch or something I can't remember. I saw a bungie tour video a while back

 

[shem935]

It is not that surprising. Unfinished content gets left on the cutting floor sometimes, but they can always go back and finish it for DLC, patches or a sequel.

Correct. Not sure what the issue is here.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

I think many people can judge what a proper level of content is for what they pay for. Games have been around a long time and there are, to a degree, acceptable levels of content for what you pay for.

Bungie: Let's flesh out the main content of the game.

Activision: It would be epic if we had a mission where you protect your ghost while fighting waves of enemies!

Bungie: That's a bit mundane but I suppose we can use that as a filler once in a great while. What else?

Activision: What do you mean "what else?"

This would fit the situation perfectly tbh.

Destiny for me is honestly the biggest let down I've ever had. I was expecting this big sprawling plant jumping, space flying, inter galactic, Star Wars-esque story.

What did we get?

"Don't have time to explain what I don't have time to explain."

Absolutely gutted. Especially by the story.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Can we please not have pompous gaming forum trash posting about how developers are lazy liars? Please?

So much about Destiny has changed since February 2013. I very much doubt the social space we are getting now was finished then, specifically because we know it is being used to directly service the player experience that has evolved since launch.

Won't all players have access to this space anyway?

 

[shiv_]

Nothing wrong here. Game development is dynamic, not linear. Stuff changes. Deal with it.

Why do you keep blindly regurgitating 'stuff changes' as if that is a real excuse? Development and design decisions can cause drastic change in a project, no doubt. But it's obvious that what we are seeing here is not some design change made for the betterment of the game. It's the equivalent of a highschool kid changing the line spacing on his report to double and widening the margins on his paper in order to meet the page length criteria.

Destiny obviously did go through some kind of development hell. There's proof of that all over the place thanks to all the early content videos and leaks. That doesn't bug me. What bugs me is that they chopped up their game, which was already low on content, and are selling it to people one 20 dollar chunk at a time. It's just a lot of money for what ultimately is VERY little content, especially after much of it was hinted at as being in the initial release.

I'll still buy it because I still want to play it. But that doesn't mean it's right. It just means they can get away with it. This is one of the first times I've been devoted to playing a game while continually feeling cheated by it each time they announce a new dlc. Doesn't have to be that way. Being a loyal customer is not as beneficial as being a happy and loyal one.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Wow if this is verifiable, if true - - then this game was truly and without a DOUBT cut of SIGNIFICANT content within the game to be sold as $20 x2 for individual DLC or, $30 as a season pass.

Perhaps the worst transgression of ON-Disc DLC ever. "Two expansions" - for a game whose content (little of) was criticized, and rightly so, after experiencing it myself.

Anyone who knowingly supports this, while free to do so (for many reasons), is part of the problem on principle. Approach Destiny 2 with extreme caution is all I could say.

 

[GlamFM]

"Things change" has to be one of the worst excuse I've heard for what Activision and Bungie did with Destiny.

Almost as bad as "think of the feelings of the devs who made The Order:1886"

Alan wake was an open world game at some point.

The Aperture Science Excursion Funnel even had its own small commercial, but never made it into Portal 2.

Three Nintendo Games Drastically Changed After Their Initial Reveal

I could go on for hours.

That´s no excuse at all.

As I said before, game development is dynamic.

 

[Lockjaw333]

Destiny is an awesome game but such a fucking cash grab that it is disgusting.

It was manufactured not as a game but as a cash grab. From the very beginning. Activision is lucky that it was Bungie who did the "game" part because Bungie is top quality.

This is what irks me. I was super hyped for the game and after 10 or so hours found out it wasn't for me, but I can understand why people who are into MMOs and the like love it. But I just can't get over how the game was DESIGNED around being a cash grab, as you say.

 

[GlamFM]

Why do you keep blindly regurgitating 'stuff changes' as if that is a real excuse?

Actually I don´t even know why Bungie needs "an excuse" honestly.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Alan wake was an open world game at some point.

The Aperture Science Excursion Funnel even had its own small commercial, but never made it into Portal 2.

Three Nintendo Games Drastically Changed After Their Initial Reveal

I could go on for hours.

That´s no excuse at all.

As I said before, game development is dynamic.

And normally the PR and whats shown of the game is dynamic to reflect that, with developers being honest and upfront if there were huge changes.

Destiny had its story gutted and areas carved out for later DLC, and Bungie kept shtum until post-launch, the same huge story and huge content promises.

I think Rockstar are about the only other devs that pull the same secrecy level approach to PR, but they've not disappointed to the degree Bungie has now multiple times.

Defend away, but what happened with Destiny is one of the worst instances of a big AAA bait and switch in the industry and thats why the burning embers of those soured by this shitfest still glow bright.

 

[Gold_Loot]

I never liked these kind of responses but-
ITT People don't know how game development works.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Actually I don´t even know why Bungie needs "an excuse" honestly.

They don't. They can do whatever they want with their product.

Likewise, posters here on GAF can voice their opinions, as negative and toxic as they can be towards a practice they might find indefensible and/or wrong.

If we look at every single business practice in the industry as simply "stuff changes" - we would be dealing with an Xbox One pre-policy change, among many other things. Not everything that changes is "good".

 

[Septic360]

Alan wake was an open world game at some point.

The Aperture Science Excursion Funnel even had its own small commercial, but never made it into Portal 2.

Three Nintendo Games Drastically Changed After Their Initial Reveal

I could go on for hours.

That´s no excuse at all.

As I said before, game development is dynamic.

Yup game development is dynamic so accept a lackluster story and an entire friggin game hub shown off 2 YEARS AGO. Right...its dynamic.

Hey EA! You hear that, game development is dynamic is a thing now so plaster that as your default statement as you purposely hold back content to monetise on later on after you've released a shell of a game whilst simultaneously benefiting from all the hype generated from the GAME FOOTAGE you shown off at your reveal.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

There's a difference between making changes and showing something, that then isn't in the game but available as DLC.

But, Destiny was the biggest disappointment for me and I moved on. So I don't care that much anymore.

 

[Zomba13]

Alan wake was an open world game at some point.

The Aperture Science Excursion Funnel even had its own small commercial, but never made it into Portal 2.

Three Nintendo Games Drastically Changed After Their Initial Reveal

I could go on for hours.

That´s no excuse at all.

As I said before, game development is dynamic.

A bunch of those did go through dramatic changes but they also had new marketing pushes and previews, trailers etc after the changes (like the changing of Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures). The only one in your list I would say would be the same would be the Portal 2 one which if I remember right then ended up cutting that mechanic because the devs didn't think it was fun (and besides, the game was jam packed with great content from start to finish and nothing advertised as the base package and sold later as DLC).

With those games you had plenty of fair warning that this isn't the game you were originally shown (minus Portal 2). It was the main reason I didn't buy Alan Wake until it was super cheap on steam or somewhere, I wanted that big open-world PC game but the devs showed me plenty of footage before release that it had changed (and was now on 360 with a potential PC port) and I could "vote with my wallet". With Destiny we were shown this area and I think a few others (I'm probably wrong there though) as being part of the base game and not DLC. I know, things can change from trailers to release but usually we're given warning that X feature has been removed or changed rather than having to find out when you think you're halfway through the story you're actually on the last planet and that whole "Reef" area on the map was literally used in two cutscenes and was taken out to be sold as DLC.

 

[Orniletter]

Alan wake was an open world game at some point.

The Aperture Science Excursion Funnel even had its own small commercial, but never made it into Portal 2.

Three Nintendo Games Drastically Changed After Their Initial Reveal

I could go on for hours.

That´s no excuse at all.

As I said before, game development is dynamic.

The linked Nintendo article in particular is utter bollocks (a techdemo thats meant to show off what the GameCube could do didn't "change" into WindWaker, like the WiiU Zelda demo from 2011 didn't "change" into Zelda U or the vibe of a trailer changed into an actual game).

The difference is that the mentioned games made their changes known before release...in conrast to Activision and Bungie purposely vague and evocative marketing that oversold the game in every single area (story, content, social features).

Things change, yes. That doesn't give developers or people defending developers the right to shoot down everyone who feels mislead or lied to when the finnished product ended up disappointing so, so many people.