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Rumor: 20-30 Minutes gameplay demo of Fallout 4 at E3 / not coming 2015

Tigress

Member
Add turn based combat, an isometric perspective and maybe another year of development time to NV and it would have been great.

I hate to break this to you but a lot more people were exposed to Fallout and enjoyed it as real time combat with the first person/third person perspective and would be pissed if they tried to do that. Fallout is no longer a turn based game, move on. And just cause it's not a turn based game does not make it not Fallout.

This is like asking GTA to become a top down 2D game again cause that was what it was originally. Yes, Fallout was originally a isometric game. It's evolved and moved on (That happens in time. Games change). If you really want an isometric post apocalypse game, I got news for you. You've got one. You've got one that is a follow up on the actual original post apocalypse isometric game. You know, the one that inspired the original Fallout? Wasteland 2. So it's not like you don't have a game that will fit more of what you want. Hell, it's even coming to PS4 if you don't have a PC to play it (I'm very excited about this). So best of both worlds :) (especially for me as I liked both styles of Fallout but yes, I prefer what Bethesda did to the gameplay. And no, I wasn't introduced to Fallout by Fallout 3 but by the original Fallout).

I will give you the stuff about story was messed up and Bethesda sucks at story. That's why New Vegas is my favorite, a good mix of both the gameplay I prefer and better story/character writing. And a faction system and hardcore mode and better shooting (I liked the ADS way over the gunplay in 3). Pretty much everything was refined and done better save Bethesda did a really good job with world building/atmosphere (But I still liked exploring New Vegas too).
 
Cool, I still feel like this will have some exclusive Xbox deal. The feeling is so strong. Microsoft needs it and I think Bethesda is totally already partnered with them.
 

Tigress

Member
Cool, I still feel like this will have some exclusive Xbox deal. The feeling is so strong. Microsoft needs it and I think Bethesda is totally already partnered with them.

Why does everyone assume this is fact?

I know it was this way back in previous generation. But, it seems like Sony has gotten a lot more cozy with Bethesda. For one Bethesda is one of the developer/publisher (to be fair I'm not clear if it was the studio or the publisher they worked with) that they consulted when making the PS4 and when introducing the PS4 they seemed to make a big deal of their deal with Bethesda Softworks for Elder Scrolls Online (even making it the first game shown in one of their first big ads for PS4).

I'm not saying this means they are going to Sony, but I am saying it is a possibility this time around. It just seems Bethesda was one of those Sony went out of the way to get a better relationship with.
 
I think if the Elder Scrolls MMO did very well, it could have been a very real possibility...we may never know how dangerously close we got to disaster.

You have to keep in mind that ESO wasn't developed by Bethesda anyway. I seriously doubt their main team will ever be working on anything other than the big, open-world, SP games.
 
This is like asking GTA to become a top down 2D game again cause that was what it was originally.


This is like turning The Elder Scrolls into a turn based strategy game and scoffing at fans of the games that came before with comments like the series having 'evolved' but ok.
You're right about one thing though. Just because it doesn't play like Falout doesn't mean it's not Fallout. Wait a minute...

Wasteland 2 was alright.
 

Odah

Banned
This is like turning The Elder Scrolls into a turn based strategy game and scoffing at fans of the games that came before with comments like the series having 'evolved' but ok.

Wasteland 2 was alright.

Well, the difference is that The Elders Scrolls then had such a tiny userbase that only now it turned into a big franchise because of that evolvement.
 

Tigress

Member
This is like turning The Elder Scrolls into a turn based strategy game and scoffing at fans of the games that came before with comments like the series having 'evolved' but ok.
You're right about one thing though. Just because it doesn't play like Falout doesn't mean it's not fallout.

Wasteland 2 was alright.

Changed/evolved, you get my point. Things change and a game gets more known for its newer style than the old style so it would be a bad thing for the game to try to change it back to the original. Things move on from what they were before. Fallout, like it or not, got more popular with the gameplay of Fallout 3 and most people know it for the new school Fallout. So you'd get a lot of shock if you tried to get it back to turn based. Same as if you turned GTA back into a top down 2d game (though admittedly less so than GTA cause even less people realize that GTA wasn't always a 3d/third person game. Hell, Rockstar even introduced first person perspective to it recently so it's changed even more).

And I'm not scoffing, I'm saying get over it already! It's changed and it got more popular as it is now. It's not going to happen and sorry, more people like it as is than as was (though I think both were good). You got the old games and they are quite replayable. You even got a new game that isn't exactly Fallout but it was a followup to Fallout's inspiration.
 
Why does everyone assume this is fact?

I know it was this way back in previous generation. But, it seems like Sony has gotten a lot more cozy with Bethesda. For one Bethesda is one of the developer/publisher (to be fair I'm not clear if it was the studio or the publisher they worked with) that they consulted when making the PS4 and when introducing the PS4 they seemed to make a big deal of their deal with Bethesda Softworks for Elder Scrolls Online (even making it the first game shown in one of their first big ads for PS4).

I'm not saying this means they are going to Sony, but I am saying it is a possibility this time around. It just seems Bethesda was one of those Sony went out of the way to get a better relationship with.

I don't know to tell you. It just this strange feeling I have. Microsoft does know how to punch the wind out of people expecting the expected. They have a keen sense of getting themselves latched on the most popular games by default sometimes. I know Sony has better talking power now and has been sort of running the conversations but I just don't put it past me that Microsoft hasn't already talked to them about this. It just feels like its going to happen. If I'm wrong, that is when I will truly believe that Sony has really became something unprecedented.

I don't know if this is fact but is it true that Sony has a marketing deal with Battlefront too?
 

daveo42

Banned
We all knew this was coming, we just didn't know when. If the rumor is true, it sucks we won't get it this year but at least we will be seeing the game this year. My guess (depending on how far along it is in development) is it'll come out early 2016.
 

Tigress

Member
I don't know to tell you. It just this strange feeling I have. Microsoft does know how to punch the wind out of people expecting the expected. They have a keen sense of getting themselves latched on the most popular games by default sometimes. I know Sony has better talking power now and has been sort of running the conversations but I just don't put it past me that Microsoft hasn't already talked to them about this. It just feels like its going to happen. If I'm wrong, that is when I will truly believe that Sony has really became something unprecedented.

I don't know if this is fact but is it true that Sony has a marketing deal with Battlefront too?

I understand that in the past Bethesda has been a lot closer to MS and add in that really their main market is the PC players so I can see why people are thinking this.

But I'm pointing out that some stuff has changed and it is possible it will be different this time for many factors (Sony outwardly trying to get closer with Bethesda including taking some of their suggestions for PS4 design as well as PS4 doing a lot better this time around. Oh, and having the better RAM for their product... a big reason PS3 sucked with Bethesda software before).

It will also be more expensive for MS to paywall stuff with them (especially for a game as big as Fallout where Bethesda is sure to make a lot of money without MS paying them anything) and MS might actually decide it's not worth it. Just cause they have a lot of money to spend doesn't mean they'll think it's a worthwhile move for the price. It doesn't have to be more expensive than what MS can pay, it has to be pricier than it is worth to MS. I don't think they are going to keep throwing away money just to try to make number 1. At some point they'll just try to stay relevant and just have a success (not being number 1 does not mean not a success).
 

Cptkrush

Member
Lol, nice strawman.
That's just one of the many things Bethesda fucked up, obviously. Lets not forget what they did to some of the lore, the Super Mutants, the Enclave, Ghouls, Brotherhood of Steel, etc. I'm really glad Obsidian was able to ignore a lot of it with the excuse of Fallout 3 taking place on the other side of the country because otherwise... yikes.

Obsidian actually did a pretty decent job bringing back a lot of things that made Fallout well, Fallout but it's still muddled by Fallout 3's legacy with it's real time combat and 1st/3rd person perspective.
Add turn based combat, an isometric perspective and maybe another year of development time to NV and it would have been great.






Okay.
I don't think you know what a straw man is.

Isometric fallout was a product of its time, and I'm glad it's been evolved. I played both iso games before playing 3/NV and they aren't exactly incredible for their gameplay. Fallout is about the setting, story, freedom, and dark grotesque humor. While I agree Fallout 3 was pretty just ok, New Vegas was a real fallout game with great gameplay and story, and it needed nothing other than some bug testing and a not so janky engine.
 

BokehKing

Banned
Or it could go the COD route and no one has exclusive marketing this time around (hint: that would be for the best)


20-30 min gameplay at e3? 27 min CG and 3 min gameplay footage? Thats how most reveals work at e3 these days now right?
At their own conference
 
Porting the old games to be playable on consoles would probably take a lot more work than porting the new ones. If there is an anthology of some sort, I guarantee it's just 3/NV + DLC.
Porting 3 and NV over to next gen consoles would take more effort than its worth. I can't believe this is a thing people want when moddable versions of the game exist for five bucks and can run on toasters. It likely would not run well because of engine constraints and it would not benefit from years of active community development and bigfixes outside of Bethesda's own, which could hardly be considered comprehensive.
 
Porting 3 and NV over to next gen consoles would take more effort than its worth. I can't believe this is a thing people want when moddable versions of the game exist for five bucks and can run on toasters. It likely would not run well because of engine constraints and it would not benefit from years of active community development and bigfixes outside of Bethesda's own, which could hardly be considered comprehensive.

Oh, I'm not saying they *should* port them, just that it's far more likely any "anthology" would be just those two games and wouldn't have anything to do with the old PC titles.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
tumblr_mb4cx8GJAB1rudcheo1_500.gif
 

dork

Banned
How are Bethesda for demos reflecting the final game?

aren't they the same thing

I kid I kid

im ok with seeing a 30 minute gameplay demo and not getting the game this year, then getting a stupid cgi trailer and the game this year
 

Andodalf

Banned
How are Bethesda for demos reflecting the final game?

Skyrim demo was straight up amazing, and very true to the final experience. It was pretty much just the first quest, no frills. exactly how it is in the launch game.

First teaser with graphics was pretty much the same as the real game, but with special camera angles and animations.
 
I swear GAF is the few places on the internet that liked NV better than 3. I'm not saying NV was bad at all, I enjoyed it, but I found 3 the more enjoyable setting and atmosphere. I also found the quest lines better in 3. Like Megaton, or the "vampires", etc.
 
I don't know why but I'm scared of a Bethesda Fallout 4. I have a fear they will screw with the lore, dump all the good changes New Vegas made, put level scaling back in, put an ugly color filter over the game, have a tired save the world story with one-dimensional characters and the final boss will be Super Mutant Dragon President Eden of the ENCLAVE who have returned!!! Oh noes!

EDIT:

Will the dinosaurs who want turn based isometric game-play kindly exit the thread? This a'int your grand daddy's Fallout!
 

Drazgul

Member
Please let Gamebryo be dead!

Please let Gamebryo be dead!

Please let Gamebryo be dead!

Please let Gamebryo be dead!

So what would you suggest as an alternative? CryEngine, id Tech, UE and the like are completely unsuitable for their style of open world games. Of course they'll continue to use their Creation Engine - it's the only realistic choice.
 
I don't think you know what a straw man is.

Isometric fallout was a product of its time, and I'm glad it's been evolved. I played both iso games before playing 3/NV and they aren't exactly incredible for their gameplay. Fallout is about the setting, story, freedom, and dark grotesque humor. While I agree Fallout 3 was pretty just ok, New Vegas was a real fallout game with great gameplay and story, and it needed nothing other than some bug testing and a not so janky engine.

I don't think you do.

It hasn't 'evolved' at all, it's just different and the fact that we're still getting games with isometric perspectives disproves your theory about it just being a product of it's time but feel free to keep thinking that way.
I mean you're wrong, but it's ok to be wrong I guess.

I'm out
giphy.gif
 

Tigress

Member
So what would you suggest as an alternative? CryEngine, id Tech, UE and the like are completely unsuitable for their style of open world games. Of course they'll continue to use their Creation Engine - it's the only realistic choice.

I don't know much about engines (not a programmer).

My thoughts on it would be it would be nice if they actually worked on a newer engine that worked better.

But, it would not be worth it if they could not retain the aspects of their games that makes it why I like them so much (the openness in what you can do, the ability to make mobs react to you according to what you've done, small things like sitting in chairs or re arranging furniture, dialogue, being able to eat and sleep. Basically very open to at least roleplay on your own however you want to play your character and to try to pretend you are the character. Also, even though since I play on console I can't take advantage of it, the modding. Because I think it's pretty cool what people can do with the games with the modding, like improving on gameplay and adding new gameplay aspects or adding characters and quests, fixing bugs, and I'd hate to see that taken away. Sure, I can't take advantage of it now, but maybe one day I could and I'd hate to see that gone).
 

Tigress

Member
I don't think you do.

It hasn't 'evolved' at all, it's just different and the fact that we're still getting games with isometric perspectives disproves your theory about it just being a product of it's time but feel free to keep thinking that way.
I mean you're wrong, but it's ok to be wrong I guess.

I'm out
giphy.gif

Sorry, these days most people do see turn based as something as a thing of the past (they assume it's more cause of technology we don't need to rely on that but can have action and good graphics <- I was explaining to some one that Fallout 1 and 2 don't look that dated cause of their style of gameplay they could do better graphics on it).

What they don't realize it is based on paper and dice style games.

One could argue that paper and dice style games are that way though cause they really can't simulate real time action better than that in the real world. And now that we have the tech we can simulate it more being real time action vs. letting the dice decide if you succeed or not (at least in a computer game).

Really though, I'd say it is still fun to play the turn based games (I'm having a helluva lot of fun with Fallout 2 right now. Actually prefer it to 1 which I couldn't get into as much. Too bad I didn't get a chance to try 2 when I was trying to get into fallout cause they hadn't put it on Mac yet and I didn't think they would so it was a long time before I found that there was a Mac version as probably by the time they came out with the Mac version I had moved on to other things).

But, I'm sorry, I like what Bethesda did to Fallout gameplay wise. I love the exploration more (not having to just hit from point to point but allowed to enjoy the travelling in between points and seeing the random stuff on the way) and I do like the gunplay (ok, of Fallout New Vegas. 3's gunplay was not so interesting so I did use VATs a lot. For me I really like ADS much better, feels more like aiming a gun rather than just pointing and clicking on a spot. And I like games that simulate things better... for me I think I want a game to be a good simulator more than anything else... I want to simulate being in a post apocalypse world and trying to survive).

Yes, 2 did have a lot better story (and probably easier cause they could use less resources on developing the game and more on story). But I think Vegas was a great compromise between having a good story and the gameplay I liked a lot. In fact it's my GOAT (and also obviously my faovrite Fallout game. I think 2 might follow Vegas though). And sorry, New Vegas wouldn't have happened without Bethesda changing Fallout's gameplay style.

Not to mention that Bethesda I think brought Fallout to more people's attention. A lot to most of the Fallout fans know about Fallout from 3 than from 1 + 2. Which is why I compare it to GTA for that aspect (cause GTA 3 also is what got GTA really popular. The top down ones showed the potential and they changed the gameplay and got more people into it. Most people today would probably be shocked at what GTA started as).

But really what makes Fallout Fallout is not just the post apocalypse setting or the dark humor, but the whole idea that culture never evolved past the 50's. That's what really sets Fallout apart honestly. For one the 50's was when you had the big nuclear scare so it really fits with this post apocalypse future idea and also, the 50's was seen as quite cheery so it makes for an interesting backdrop to see this cheery culture style in such a dark setting.

(Which is also why I am really against Fallout being outside of America. Cause American 50's culture is a big part of Fallout).
 

GECK

Member
I swear GAF is the few places on the internet that liked NV better than 3. I'm not saying NV was bad at all, I enjoyed it, but I found 3 the more enjoyable setting and atmosphere. I also found the quest lines better in 3. Like Megaton, or the "vampires", etc.

Haha, what? Even Beth's own forums prefer Vegas.
 

Lakitu

st5fu
I definitely preferred Fallout 3's side quests to New Vegas. Sure there were fewer but they were much longer with more quality, while perhaps they were better written in New Vegas. I really fucking loved the White Glove quest though, one of my favourites in the series.
 
I don't understand the people that say isometric/turn-based is a "thing of the past" and gaming has "evolved" beyond that. Two of the most critically acclaimed RPGs of the past year were isometric (Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity), and Divinity's turn-based combat is praised as the best of its genre.

Reminds me of PS1-era Sony where they didn't want to publish any 2D games because "3D is the future".

Regardless, Fallout 3 being a first-person sandbox shooter isn't about the genre evolving, it's about a company buying an IP and using its aesthetics for a game design model they're already comfortable with. I highly doubt Bethesda had any intention to make Fallout 3 into anything other than Elder Scrolls: Post-apocalyptic Edition.
 

ColdSpike

Banned
It will be ruined by the announcement of a new pay for mod system on PC and consoles. I just know it... I got that too good to be true feeling right now.
 

Tigress

Member
It will be ruined by the announcement of a new pay for mod system on PC and consoles. I just know it... I got that too good to be true feeling right now.

As some one who plays on a console, you're going to hate me but if I paying for the mods meant I got the mods, I'm all for it (at least on console).

I'd rather have hte chance to add a mod but have to pay than no chance at all.
 

Tigress

Member
I don't understand the people that say isometric/turn-based is a "thing of the past" and gaming has "evolved" beyond that. Two of the most critically acclaimed RPGs of the past year were isometric (Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity), and Divinity's turn-based combat is praised as the best of its genre.

Are either of these the kind of mass hits that Bethesda is trying for when they spend years on one game though? I'd argue you even see a lot of people talking about those games on this forum cause it's a forum of people dedicated to games.

I'm not saying they are bad games or that isometric is bad (as I've put before, I'm loving Fallout 2 right now and I remember loving this style game since AD&D games and some game I can't remember the name of for my Mac back in college). But it being the popular game style that most people play these days? I'd argue that that's not so true anymore and that it's heyday was more in the past. Even JRPGs are trying to move towards more action based (Though personally I prefer either all out turn based or all out action based. I hate the combo that final fantasy has tried to evolve to now. FFXII had the worst of both worlds imho).

Anyways, my whole point is that Fallout has changed and it's not going back, move on. I've even pointed out there are other games that still do turn based to play if you like that style. Also, that most people whether you like it or not do consider isometric something of the past. They probably view those games as games capitalizing on nostalgia. But hey, at least there is enough people who still enjoy it those games can still do well, right? And obviously you are right, there is a market for people who enjoy those type games. But it's not big enough for the type games Bethesda likes making. It does seem to be making a resurgance honestly (I'm looking forward to playing Wasteland 2 on my PS4... though maybe I'll still opt to risk if it will run on my Mac. I think I prefer turn based games on my computers or handhelds vs. on the big tv).

Maybe "evolved" was the wrong word but my point that it has moved on to something different. And yes, it's cause it was bought out by a different company that does different style games. And I think their style was awesome with Fallout. Personally, for me it's great cause I get to enjoy Fallout in both styles :p. (and honestly, I'm just sick of people discounting new style Fallout cause it wasn't like the originals and how dare they do something different with it. To me that's just as obnoxious as people discounting old style Fallout cause it's "old/turn based/etc". They both have their merits imho and both styles are great games).
 
I don't understand the people that say isometric/turn-based is a "thing of the past" and gaming has "evolved" beyond that. Two of the most critically acclaimed RPGs of the past year were isometric (Divinity: Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity), and Divinity's turn-based combat is praised as the best of its genre.

Reminds me of PS1-era Sony where they didn't want to publish any 2D games because "3D is the future".

Regardless, Fallout 3 being a first-person sandbox shooter isn't about the genre evolving, it's about a company buying an IP and using its aesthetics for a game design model they're already comfortable with. I highly doubt Bethesda had any intention to make Fallout 3 into anything other than Elder Scrolls: Post-apocalyptic Edition.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but who can buy those games? PC gamers. Those games appeal to the more open-minded hardcore gamers. The majority of console gamers are closed-minded casuals who just want the stuff that looks big budget/AAA. Fallout 4 returning to a style that resembles Fallout 1 and 2 and less Fallout 3/NV spells disaster for sales on consoles. It would do just fine on PC. It may sell 300K on the consoles because of the name, but millions...? Doubtful
 

Squire

Banned
While having no inside knowledge, I remain convinced that Mass Effect 4 will be delayed and end up a Q1 2017 title.

I have been saying this for a year.

If Fallout and FF are holiday games and ME is out in February, it's the same effect really.
 
The majority of console gamers are closed-minded casuals who just want the stuff that looks big budget/AAA. Fallout 4 returning to a style that resembles Fallout 1 and 2 and less Fallout 3/NV spells disaster for sales on consoles. It would do just fine on PC. It may sell 300K on the consoles because of the name, but millions...? Doubtful

Really? I played all of the Fallout games and I enjoyed 1 and 2, but greatly preferred 3 and NV.
 
I definitely preferred Fallout 3's side quests to New Vegas. Sure there were fewer but they were much longer with more quality, while perhaps they were better written in New Vegas. I really fucking loved the White Glove quest though, one of my favourites in the series.
Fallout 3's sidequests are none of those things, having come fresh off a F3 play through. They are shorter on average than NV's, they universally have fewer options for resolving them (and what options you're given are binary), they impact the world and how NPCs interact sith you far less, and they're written noticibly worse on direct comparison to NV's quests (replay 'Them', or really any of the other quests that serve as a vehicle for pop culture references... Inspired stuff), often with no regard given to lore because the existing lore and a more reasoned world would not support a town of children or a subway of vampires or dudes who think they're superheroes or Dr. Lazko or Moira Brown
 

Lakitu

st5fu
Fallout 3's sidequests are none of those things, having come fresh off a F3 play through. They are shorter on average than NV's, they universally have fewer options for resolving them (and what options you're given are binary), they impact the world far less, and they're written noticibly worse on direct comparison (replay 'Them', or really any of the other quests that serve as a vehicle for pop culture references... Inspired stuff) often with no regard given to lore because the existing lore and a more reasoned world would not support a town of children or a subway of vampires or dudes who think they're superheroes.

To be honest, it's been a while since I've played them both, I just remember being more fond of Fallout 3's side-quests and remember some being quite long. But like I said, it's been a while.
 
Some of them are definately really memorable and they're designed more around keeping the player adventuring than in NV, which has a bigger roleplaying emphasis. I want to see some FO3-like 'go out to the boonies and spelunk' type quests, and more like Reilly's Rangers, big self contained adventure type quests.
 

Gumbie

Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but who can buy those games? PC gamers. Those games appeal to the more open-minded hardcore gamers. The majority of console gamers are closed-minded casuals who just want the stuff that looks big budget/AAA. Fallout 4 returning to a style that resembles Fallout 1 and 2 and less Fallout 3/NV spells disaster for sales on consoles. It would do just fine on PC. It may sell 300K on the consoles because of the name, but millions...? Doubtful

wtf is this shit? Please stop with your generalization bullshit.
 
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