Because Android is open source. Piracy is rampant across Android devices.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nikkei: Nintendo's NX platform will use an Android OS
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
Because Android is open source. Piracy is rampant across Android devices.
OmegaDL50
Member
Normal Android on phones and tablets are extremely easy to root or get Superuser access.
This would mean easy to sideload APKs of illegally obtained Android apps.
Of course obviously it would a given that Nintendo would use a heavily locked down or encrypted variation of the OS itself.
There are multiple options Nintendo could use to lock down and make software piracy as difficult as possible even to the point of not even using the APK format but their own proprietary executables that just the same work on Android. Meaning games that need to match a hash / key signature i.e signed code.
OmegaDL50
Member
This implies that Nintendo doesn't use their own propriety format that doesn't use the APK extension or isn't heavily encrypted or have some other security measure utilized. Something is extremely likely to not be the case.
Hell if Nintendo DOES use a proprietary file extension, Then that would mean it would only load on devices that actually recognize that extension.
I'm not Nintendo R&D and in not even 5 minutes came up with a solution. I would think R&D would naturally produce a more sophisticated method then that.
maquiladora
Member
All these p-p-p-piracy posts are going to be pretty funny in a couple of years.
You really think Nintendo hasn't thought about all this? :lol
You really think Nintendo hasn't thought about all this? :lol
LordOcidax
Member
Did you really think that Nintendo is going to take an Android Phone OS and Throw on the NX? lolol. Not even talking about customs parts of the Hardware.
Neither of those are actual factors. Open source actually makes it (arguably) more secure. The OS being "secure" means a different thing than games being pirated.
Note that just because Nintendo would use Android, does NOT mean they have to use the same container format typical Android uses. Nintendo has shown themselves perfectly capable of making their own encrypted containers.
Also as stated, Dalvik is no longer used in Android 5.0+. ART is way better and cooler. Having said that, if they ARE going the Android route, they wouldn't be using NotJava for their performance critical apps. Android is perfectly capable of using machine-compiled binaries and has done so for years. Tons of games use the NDK (Native Development Kit) for better performance.
With all this, I don't think it's necessarily a bad route to go with Android. If they follow most of the existing Android APIs, they could get a lot of traction. They do NOT have to be games written in Java to run on Android. You can still get a ton of performance out of the hardware.
Schnozberry
Member
Piracy is honestly one of the smallest hurdles for Nintendo with the NX. On the whole, most people are decent human beings and don't feel compelled to steal money from game creators. The best thing Nintendo can do to combat game piracy is keep the cost of games down and make the purchase process as convenient as humanly possible.
LordOcidax
Member
And why some peoples still cracking 2 dollars android games?
also, how hard is it to download android apps these days.
LordOfChaos
Member
That term doesn't mean what you think it means...
Piracy on Android is largely the result of an option in the settings that lets you install apps from outside the app store. That can be locked down easy enough. Nothing to do with "open source", it's an OS setting they chose to put in.
Many phone makers have used lock boot loaders that never got cracked.
Android being open source does not mean Nintendo would leave the thing wide open to piracy. There are many ways they can lock it down. We don't even know what "Android Based" means in this context, it could be quite a bit different.
Think about what Steam OS is to Debian. Same base, lots different.
In fact, that's the key point of Open Source, anyone can take the source code, change it to their requirements, and roll out something new. I'm not sure what you meant by open source = piracy, open source does not mean wide open to anything.
Webkit is open source.
How are we 25 pages in and still going in circles about whether Android = Nintendo going full ruhtard and allowing piracy? Android based is vague enough to leave that discussion aside for now.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
What kind of joke post is this?
Abinash117
Member
Why would they completely abandon making games like that when they have been making those types of games for years? You can't have mobile games(if that is what you are talking about) that plays just like and not similar to, traditional games. It would be a downgrade on their part and many many people would be completely pissed. If mobile games did play like that and looked just as good though, they wouldn't be considered 'mobile games' .
I think it is just adding to on to a new concept while retaining what they been doing before. An android-based OS could just mean a more familiar OS to many more developers to solve the the 3rd party issue, and they might customize enough to their needs.
LordOcidax
Member
Is amazing to see how a lot of Gafers doesn't even know what and OS is, and how it works... If this rumor is true, is an amazing big step for Nintendo on their next platform. I only see positives things.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The OP needs to be updated with the following simple disclaimer:
Android-based does not imply a platform can run anything Android, have the same security mechanisms, or heck, be recognizable in any shape or form as anything known.
Thank you.
Weak troll, 1/10.
Or it could be both. If these systems do in fact share enough commonalities to have games that work on both of them, then wouldn't it make sense to release them simultaneously and unify their hardware release schedule, which has been mentioned as being a problem for them?
1. Android being open source has nothing to do with piracy or "hacking".
2. Piracy being "rampant" across Android devices does not mean at all that this would be the case for another Android based system. Nintendo can pick and choose what Android can be, they don't have to include the mechanisms that make piracy easy on Android (e.g. easy sideloading of APKs).
This is a very ill-informed justification.
Exactly. This is the point, people seem to assume because a system is based on Android, that is has to function like Android does to most people. Nintendo can make this system their own whilst benefiting from the continued development of core Android components that they may use.
MisterHero
Super Member
I'm finally gonna get to play GTA: San Andreas on a Nintendo console!!!!
!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!
Then why out of the box can every android devices install any old APK you download off the internet. I doubt Google and Samsung and LG are okay with people just downloading paid apps for free.
Jaysus..........
Because these Companies chose Android and want to serve their community (Android based phone OSs prides themselves on customization). The Fire OS was DOA because of it android style. If they want they could lock it down. For instance some of the Android TV have side loading locked down(cant check install from unknown sources. The setting isnt even there)
They're not.
However, just because Google has Android setup to side load apks, doesn't mean Nintendo has to.
Nintendo could easily remove that from their version of the OS.
If they didn't you wouldn't be able to install the Amazon app for instance.
shysaursoft
Member
Gonzo The Great
Banned
I'm confident that this is what's going to happen. NX will be their new console and their new handheld.
Nicktendo86
Member
They might not be but they have to allow it as they are signed up to the OHA, Nintendo (like Amazon) are not and can lock their version of android down as they wish. They just can't use google services or call it android.
Which is kind of the point. They want to develop the "ecosystem" approach to their software that Apple enjoys, albeit likely with some key differences, and the hardware is just there to facilitate that.
My point was Android being open source, means that it's obviously well documented and has a huge community who develop and are familiar with it, thus making it more of a risk.
Fourth Storm
Member
It still makes sense to stagger the launches, because hardcore fans will still want to buy both and Nintendo will want them to buy more software at launch (more profit for them) rather than blow their whole wad of cash on less profitable hardware. Think about it: Apple still staggers release of their iPad and iPhone lines. This would be no different.
Plus this:
Iwata said:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/150217qa/03.html
Good, well to understand explanation
I certainly don't know much about the implications of this decision but from what you've wrote, it certainly sounds like they made the best decision, especially if they want to make it easier for developers to work on their system.
If they both play most if not all of the same games across both platforms, wouldn't you just buy the form factor you want most and buy the other one later? Why own both right away if they have the same software available?
Good, well to understand explanation
I certainly don't know much about the implications of this decision but from what you've wrote, it certainly sounds like they made the best decision, especially if they want to make it easier for developers to work on their system.
What Nintendo wants is the same OS on both their handheld and console.
Android fits the bill perfectly. It's a well developed and well supported OS, runs on different hardware configurations and is free to use without royalties.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I don't like the sound of this at all, but we hardly have any info, so just gonna wait till we get solid stuff from Nintendo before being disappointed. Gonna cherish the fuck outta the WiiU and 3DS for the time being.
MisterHero
Super Member
Imgine if Nintey put Virtual Console on Android. Would their official emulators make the unofficial ones illegal on Google's store?
Fourth Storm
Member
Because they are still 2 separate form factors and useful in different situations. And also, hardcore will be hardcore. Bottom line is Nintendo don't want hardware sitting on shelves. More (new) choices arriving all at once increases the likelihood of this happening. This is why we've seen all the console manufacturers move away from multiple skus as this gen rolls on.
Also, don't underestimate the lure of brand spanking new hardware. It creates impulse buys. Counting on consumers to hold out on a console for 6 months to a year just gives the consumer more time to decide that they're fine sticking w/ one hardware.
I don't even think that's it. If they're able to release something in the Android ecosystem and have that mobile mass market appeal, pirated versions of their games are literally a drop in the bucket to the mainstream consumer. This has been the case for them with Wii and DS, as piracy, while public and acknowledged, didn't even come close to the sales many of their titles ended up getting.
All platforms will get circumvented, that's a fact of life with techology. The best thing that can happen is Nintendo merely puts out enough software for the mass market to support. The least informed consumers are the ones who have a psychological gap to face when it comes to piracy; it's usually the very poor/heavily marked-up costs for countries or the really technologically savvy that enter such domains.
That's true too, forgot about them wanting their consoles to be more like siblings.
Definitely sounds like they made the right choice.
Why would you do that?
Member
I was actually really hoping Nintendo would use Android in some way, even if unnoticeable to the end user, but didn't think they'd actually do it... I'm very excited to see what they're planning on doing.
Hopefully they will remove any latency issues, though.
Hopefully they will remove any latency issues, though.
TheRealTalker
Banned
well that is interesting to say the least
Yeah, look at all those Wii Us that flew off the shelf as impulse purchases.
Hardware doesn't make hardware makers much/any money anyways, so if they're making games that run on both, if one of them isn't successful in the market, there's less time and money lost on software development for hardware that isn't selling well. Hardware is a means to an end, not the end itself. Software is where the money is made, and the more software units sold regardless of form factor, the better.
So if hardware doesn't make them money, what does any hardware maker care if they stick with one over the other, if they've still made the sale of one of them to get the same software SKU sold?
That seems to be their strategy moving forward, and it's an incredibly sound one, at that.
Fourth Storm
Member
First of all, the sarcasm isn't necessary, Terrell.
To address your point, yes, software is where most of the profit comes from. I acknowledged that. However, if you want to use Wii U as an example, we saw that Nintendo did care that customers weren't buying one version of it (the basic) and they stopped selling it. No console maker wants hardware collecting dust on the shelves. It costs them money even if consumers are buying their other hardware. Iwata has acknowledged that they must try harder to stagger their hardware launches. There's no reason to think that he's just saying that to flap his gums.
If anything, I'd expect Nintendo to more carefully select which hardware they release where and when. Their decision to not release the regular size new 3DS in NA was only made this year, remember.
FalsettoVibe
Member
Very interesting to say the least.
I don't think they will unify the hardware release schedule. It's just too big a deviation from standard and could represent a serious jeopardization of legacy revenue streams (it's true that traditionally manufacturers have not made "much/any" money on hardware, but not Nintendo. I'm also not sure they are ready to be a seriously smaller top-line company...well, I mean, they ARE now, but is that what they want? not sure)
"Hardware launches" can encompass many things, including special editions and new bundles, so it doesn't mean it applies to the next round of new hardware.
And you can't compare multiple SKUs of the same base hardware to 2 different form factors for 2 different types of consumer.
Leaving out the fact that it doesn't make much sense to have games playable on multiple hardware types when both of them aren't even released, let's look at a scenario:
E3 2017 comes around, they announce a new home console.
"Look at these awesome games! And by the way, as we have already mentioned multiple times to investors, these games will be playable on our next handheld, too. Too bad it's not getting released for another year. Enjoy the wait, chumps!"
Those consumers who are highly likely to only buy handhelds (e.g. most of the consumers of games in Japan) have to wait a whole year to buy those games, by such time there will be ZERO buzz and a reduced desire for them and thus a reduced amount of software sales, for no other reason than to arbitrarily separate the launch of the hardware they want to buy that can play it.
Assuming they do this at the start of every new hardware cycle, one segment of the potential user base is left not buying content and becomes unlikely to buy that content when they have the opportunity to do so.
So how is reducing the amount of potential sales for their software within a certain time period beneficial, when we've already established that's where all the money is made?
If this generation says anything, it's that business as usual for Nintendo doesn't cut it; a deviation isn't just a good idea, it's necessary.
And aside from Wii, actually, hardware hasn't made Nintendo money until about 1-2 years into the cycle at the earliest. N64 didn't earn profits until the 2nd or 3rd year in on hardware, Gamecube was a break-even device and continued to be a break-even device into the 3rd year of its life as the price kept dropping and Wii U was/is a loss leader, one of Nintendo's first ever (though not a HUGE loss per hardware unit by comparison to Sony and Microsoft), and look what it did to their bottom line?
Earning money on hardware at launch was never a factor. Reducing losses from hardware sold, though? Yeah, they always tried to ensure they were at break-even or close enough to it for it not to matter, and make their money on the hardware once it's established in the market.
So they aren't hurting "legacy" profits to launch 2 hardware devices in tandem; there's none to be made in that first year anyways. Again, it's all about what you make in software.
Similar threads
- Locked