That's really all they wanted in the end, wasn't it. They even allowed cross platform play with PS2 on FF11 just to get FF on their system back then. But once that had 13 they dropped the rest like a hot potato and never looked back. The writing has been on the wall since 2009 or so, so anyone paying even the slightest attention should have known where most of the support was going to land this time around.
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Microsoft to skip Tokyo Game Show 2015
- Thread starter John Bender
- Start date
That's really all they wanted in the end, wasn't it. They even allowed cross platform play with PS2 on FF11 just to get FF on their system back then. But once that had 13 they dropped the rest like a hot potato and never looked back. The writing has been on the wall since 2009 or so, so anyone paying even the slightest attention should have known where most of the support was going to land this time around.
No they won't, before this generation begun there were people heralding the beginning of the end for gaming because mobile, plus it's not outlansish to believe that the console market could crash like it did in Japan when there's alternatives in PC, especially now thanks to Steam.
sure
but i didnt have the feeling that the outcome of those gens would look this grim like the ps4/x1/wiiU one.
while the ps1 and snes were doing good, the ps2 was released super early.
ps2/xb/gc had their own share of games without heavily relying on remakes. oh and there werent systems back then selling without having proper systemseller games.
but this is right now the case.
we had a longer time before bloodborne came out, where the ps4 sold shitcakes without having a proper exclusive game. but as told in another thread, exclusive games do not matter these days anymore, it about how a system feels and how the reception of the company is during those days.
sony has won without even fighting. ms fucked it up, because of mattrick
Think back on the PS1 and PS2 games, and remember exactly which games were system sellers that made Playstation what it is, Crash, Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, GTA hell even Fifa, all not made by Sony, we're still seeing those typea of juggernauts of games but split onto 2 systems.
AmuroChan
Member
I wouldn't count it as a Japanese game. Inafune's name is on the project, but the bulk of the development will be done by Armature. From the trailer, it seemed pretty clear to me that the game is targeted at the western audience.
SE seems to be betting the farm on console development this time around as opposed to last generation when they were stunted by both the late arrival of the PS3 and its complicated architecture.
I think the ease of PS4 development is definitely helping Japan. They're getting a lot of support from from SCE and the use of third party engines such as UE4 out the gate and that's something they really didn't have last generation. I see this as only a good thing too because without this type of support none of these games would be happening. No one should be upset about it either because the alternative is mobile and I'm sure plenty of people on GAF wouldn't want that.
check the PAL thread. J Stars Victory charted in the top 10 for Germany and France? Where is its Xbox port?
I think it's really impressive the resources Sony is throwing behind revitalizing this dev scene. Things like their sce support, on top of things like ue4 really makes me excited for this generation. Seeing you excited too really stokes that fire, because you're so much more hands on than our speculation here.
But the conclusion is, again, that your choicechoice for Japanese games is already decided for this gen. And ms doesn't appear interested in trying to change that. Which is probably good business sense, but it does suck for those who like Xbox as a platform but like more diverse options. They're basically screwed.
Imperfected
Member
From what I've heard they refused allowing similar circumstances for FFXIV, despite supposedly being more open to the idea of PC/XB1 crossplay this generation. I'm sure that didn't win them many friends in Square-Enix, considering FFXIV is what's keeping their margins stable and healthy at the moment.
What I'm looking forward to is the international development scene growing on PlayStation 4. Sony is dedicated to working with development teams in emerging markets such as the Middle East and Asia. In china for example Sony have a programme tailored to large developers, new developers and indie developers in order to get these guys working on PlayStation 4 through technical support and financial incentives. Not only are Sony working with these developers to release their games domestically but also on the Western market as well and it's why games like King of Wushu developed by Snail games in China is coming exclusively to PlayStation 4 in North America this year.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1078102
It's not just this gen. In the event that Microsoft releases a follow up to the Xbone, that console is guaranteed to miss out on just about all Japanese games. Right now, the Xbone only gets as Japanese games as it does because the publishers were under the impression that A) the Xbone would have a decent position in the Japan market and B) that the Xbone will have enough sales among gamers who like Japanese-centric games. Neither of these impressions exist any more, and Microsoft's position is going to erode in the coming years.
I get the feeling that Sony is deeply aware of how important gaming is to the overall company's health so they're committing tons of resources to both growing the industry in the newer markets and strengthening their position within the industry. While this is partially borne out of Sony's weakness in some of their traditional businesses, it's very good for gaming in general. And in the face of Microsoft and Nintendo's unwillingness to expand the market, their efforts are indispensable.
You should probably post more pictures on those snazzy uniforms from the China Joy Sony booth. Strictly for research purposes.
I agree, I think this is an awesome precedent to demonstrate. Having the development scenes in these other nations expand and grow with new games and inspirations from outside of the more established regions that do most is a great thing. I hope it pays dividends in making more potential influences from a medium that could use more perspectives.
I don't believe that for a second.
If Lost Odyssey or Blue Dragon had been successful MS would have continued series development.
That's not the point being made. The point is that those games didn't have any meaningful penetration, and as such, didn't get any follow through. They did enough to foster an impression of being a home for jrpgs in the west, but as soon as the big franchise showed up, they stopped trying any of those other tactics.
PanicFreak
Member
I think the larger issue was the fact that the economy went into the crapper and Microsoft retrenched its first party development around franchises that it knew would sell well. I don't they would have ceded Japanese development if the economy didn't crash like it did.
I don't agree with the point you're making.
JRPGS just didn't do very well on Xbox 360 despite a good number of them released from 2006-2009. Off the top of my head I can remember Enchanted Arms, The Last Remnant, Eternal Sonata, Tales of Vesperia, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Star Ocean IV. That's a hefty list and none of them lit up the charts or even collectively made enough of a difference in Japan to matter. Even Final Fantasy XIII hardly made a difference, selling much better on PS3.
The JRPG push was about making a difference in Japan for the Xbox platform. If it had worked we'd still see Microsoft investing more dollars in that genre, but it didn't do enough.
In general recessions and other economic problems have little bearing on entertainment industries with relatively low costs. In fact, it's common for spending on films and the like to go up during recessions. In the specific case of Microsoft, if you're referring to the housing crisis of 2008, they saw a small dip in earnings but their operating income was still enormous (as it is every year). This is an inadequate reason for Microsoft dropping their spending on Japanese games.
You've just described the problem, but it seems to mean something different than you think it does. The operative problem is that Japanese-centric games didn't sell that well on the 360 because there's an audience mismatch going on. If Microsoft really wanted a base of Japanese-centric gamers on their system, they should have gone farther to secure and retain this audience. Giving up after trying for a couple years is a sure sign that either they weren't serious in the attempt or that they had more limited goals from the get go. Furthermore, this kind of attitude permeates to this very day and everybody now thinks that Microsoft doesn't give a damn about Japanese games any more.
This is exactly it though. MS's solution to everything is always to throw money at it and hope for a quick turnaround. They did it with HD-DVD to try to steal the market from Blu-ray, they did it with Zune to try to beat iPod, and they just did it with Windows phone. Nothing works like that.
7 or 8 JRPGS is nothing, like seriously it's less than nothing. Look at how long Sony has been doing it since PS1, PS2, PSP, PSV, PS3 and now with the PS4. Go count how many JRPGs that is and compare that to the measly 7 or 8 JRPGs you just named on the 360. If they were serious they should have kept funding them. Lost Odyssey and Tales both sold well enough to justify funding again. MS just didn't do it because 1) they aren't blockbusters like Halo or Gears, 2) it didn't magically win them Japan (who in their right mind would have thought these would have made any difference at all in Japan overnight?), and 3) they got FF13 to come over to 360.
If anything, what they did in Japan hurt more than it helped. Japanese gamers were already skeptical over how genuine MS was about providing games for Japanese tastes after the original Xbox. When they released a few games of course people were still going to be suspicious. After bowing out after only a few games, that only further justified those suspicions that MS was not truly invested. If they wanted to make a difference, how about providing JRPG support for an entire generation? Then doing that for another generation. If at that point you still make no inroads, then maybe at that point you can claim it was a lost cause.
"The JRPG push was about making a difference in Japan for the Xbox platform."
If you truly believe this, that should already tell you MS wasn't serious about making a difference in Japan at all. That wasn't a JRPG "push" that was a JRPG fingertip tap.
Lost Odyssey sold well in the US whilst Tales didn't even sell half of Lost Odyssey.
Hell, Tales sold more in Japan on Xbox 360 than it did in the US.
That's true but I assume MS didn't have to put all that much money into Tales as it's an established series that Namco would have released at some point anyway.
No reason why they couldn't have kept funding an LO2. I mean other than that MS doesn't care about supporting JRPG fans.
What is the logic behind Germany/France being big on those games? That is really interesting.
Because France is the biggest consumer of Anime outside of Japan? It's really as simple as that.
Manga/Anime is popular (at least in France I believe), I also remember Bravely Default did decently to, so decent that Square Enix finally opened their eyes and realised their RPG's sell.
The French love anime. Also Europe loves Japanese culture way more than say the US does proportionally. I don't know if it's geographical distance or gun culture or what, but Europe is much more aligned to Japanese things than we are here.
I mean just look at the US. It's always weeaboo this and weeaboo that.
I mean outside of Anime Expo, I've always felt like in the US you're looked down upon if you like Japanese anime rather than American gritty comics like Batman and whatnot.
From the little I've seen and from what I've read, it seems that the reverse is also true for Japan. Pop media seems to have much more of an interest in France than in America.
Japan introduced anime to Germany back in WWII and they liked it so much they forced France to like it too.
I dunno. I feel like Japan is way into American culture. I mean if you walk the streets you're bound to hear music from the states. I've never heard any French music though. I mean last time I was there, there were digital billboards with Nick Young and Ziggy modelling some clothing brand I've forgotten. We don't even care about them as fashion icons in the United States! I live in LA and we don't even care about Nick Young despite the fact that he was a Laker!
Exactly... Nintendo still has an uphill battle to win over Japanese third-parties, while MS has pretty much lost them except the mega franchises and what they fund themselves. Naturally, Sony's the one hitting everything out of the park in terms of both the East and the West.
PanicFreak
Member
Microsoft isn't a company that lives and dies on its entertainment products. It's operating income was enormous but in the face of that uncertainty, they laid of people for the first time in the history of the company.
Further, I dispute your claim that the 2008 housing crisis and the resulting worldwide economic crisis was an inadequate reason for Microsoft to shift its priorities in the video game space during the crisis. The floor dropped out of the middle class and the middle class is the base for a console. It only makes sense to focus on first party titles that you know would sell.
In hindsight, could that be an inadequate reason? Maybe. However, when other companies were "cutting to the bone" a company that butters its bread in Enterprise would likely slow down spending on non-essential product lines.
makingmusic476
Member
I just linked your post to a friend who's always saying this shit around me. :lol :lol
Microsoft has a history of trying things and abandoning them if they don't work out. Mattrick became the head of IEB (over Xbox) in 2007 and there are anecdotes where people said he had little patience for things that didn't work. He also doubled down on blockbuster franchises and pulled back on trying new things that weren't Kinect related.
I don't agree with the approach, but the most logical explanation is that the then head of Xbox (Mattrick) didn't see the traction he needed to for justification of further investment in Japanese-centric gaming, especially if it came at the cost of dollars used to expand on his blockbuster franchises, multi-media functionality, or Kinect. It's why we saw new IP dry up mid way through the 360 life cycle.
I'm not trying to justify their delusion. I'm simply saying it's absurd to think that the only reason they put any effort into JRPGs is to get Final Fantasy XIII. They likely thought that having FFXIII on Xbox 360 would have an even greater effect, but that wasn't until 2010 and Mattrick had the Kinect hype train plus multi-media functionality in full effect, with pretty much annualized releases of the best selling games.
And I think they were totally serious that just a few games would make a difference. If you go watch the Podcast Unlocked with Spencer, Blackley, and Moore you hear Blackley (original Xbox) say he seriously thought the original Xbox had a shot in Japan. I can't even remember what they had on the original Xbox that would warrant that delusion, but he was sincere about it. It just goes to show their lack of local market insight, which we've seen time and again over the last 14 years anywhere but NA.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
My relevant thoughts here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=169898807&postcount=113
Judging by sales of LO and Souls versus FF and Tales games, it seems the audiences of Xbox tend to be receptive to Japanese games that could be regarded as more western influenced and stylized.
A new IP fares better than an established (LO vs Tales), with aesthetics more gritty. Indicative of audience preferences.
Basically, they shouldn't bother with overtly Japanese games and appealing to a non-existent sub-audiences. They should bother with the titles they might actually have an audience for. Which seems to be what they are attempting to do with Scalebound and having a multiplat reveal in their presser with DSIII
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=169898807&postcount=113
Judging by sales of LO and Souls versus FF and Tales games, it seems the audiences of Xbox tend to be receptive to Japanese games that could be regarded as more western influenced and stylized.
A new IP fares better than an established (LO vs Tales), with aesthetics more gritty. Indicative of audience preferences.
Basically, they shouldn't bother with overtly Japanese games and appealing to a non-existent sub-audiences. They should bother with the titles they might actually have an audience for. Which seems to be what they are attempting to do with Scalebound and having a multiplat reveal in their presser with DSIII
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Nah, it's just that US entertainment culture is more wide spread than any other country. You'll see their music, shows, movies, games everywhere in Asia (To various degree I suppose)
I'm guessing the focus on Japanese games really didn't pay off for them as much as it seemed it would early on. Nobody really expected a lot of the big traditional companies to struggle as bad as they did last gen and that opened the door for other games to take their place.
MS is still going to get the big releases like FF, RE, Dark Souls and thats really to appeal to the western gamer who likes eastern games. No real need to do more than that.
MS is still going to get the big releases like FF, RE, Dark Souls and thats really to appeal to the western gamer who likes eastern games. No real need to do more than that.
makingmusic476
Member
If that's the case (and it wouldn't surprise me), then they severely underestimated the Japanese market's ability to support 2+ home consoles, even in its heydey, and, more importantly, they underestimated the sheer volume of content that would be going to their competitor's platforms.
I don't know how many millions Microsoft ultimately invested in games like Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, and Star Ocean 4, but those games were equivalent to a tiny fraction of the content going to the ps3, and even going to the Wii upon its unexpected initial success.
When games like MGS4, FFXIII, Yakuza: Kenzan, and GT5 are announced as exclusives to your competitor's console before your console is even out, no amount of new IPs or timed exclusive mid-tier franchises are going to swing things in your favor. The Japanese market can't support secondary consoles with limited support in the same way the US market can.
I always assumed Microsoft showed off Dark Souls a lot to essentially brag about Demon's Souls' sequel going multiplatform. Same with DSIII given its announcement's proximity to Bloodborne's release.
Same reason Sony went to town with Bungie's first multiplat release.
Therein lies the problem though; most of the fans of those major franchises likes other Japanese games too, and having only the big ones is basically a bandaid. It might soften the blow for those who elected to go with XB1 this gen and like Japanese games... But it's only going to get worse for those fans. The disparity in options for those fans is going to grow larger and larger.
That bandaid can't cover up a gaping hole, in the end.
My memories might be failing but isn't RPG games selling disproportionately well even for western ones? Witcher 3 has quite a split leaning more to PS even if you take into the account of the ratio of PS/XB consoles in regions that Microsoft has good presence like US / UK.
USMNT is pitiful this year. Can't even beat Panama ffs
That's one tiny a band-aid for one for that huge wound. I mean, what kind of tiny minority would buy an Xbox One expecting Japanese games? Other than western-geared stuff like Scalebound or Recore, you're not going to find anything remotely referencing Japanese culture. As for that minority, they should have known what they were getting into when they made their purchasing decision. Just like those 10 FFXV and KHIII pre-orders you talked about. It just boggles the mind that there are people actually like that. The Xbox One version may become a collectors item, considering how rare it's going to be.
That's one tiny a band-aid for one for that huge wound. I mean, what kind of tiny minority would buy an Xbox One expecting Japanese games? Other than western-geared stuff like Scalebound or Recore, you're not going to find anything remotely referencing Japanese culture. As for that minority, they should have known what they were getting into when they made their purchasing decision. Just like those 10 FFXV and KHIII pre-orders you talked about. It just boggles the mind that there are people actually like that. The Xbox One version may become a collectors item, considering how rare it's going to be.
USMNT is awful compared to woman.
I agree; It's just moronic.
Imperfected
Member
They had some SEGA properties like Shenmue II and some Tecmo stuff like Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball, I guess.
killatopak
Gold Member
No surprises here.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Well, according to Kagari, Microsoft requires a high minimum print order, so I think there will be plenty of copies going around xP
That is correct. The PS4 version of The Witcher III sold nearly twice as much as the XBO version in the US/UK.
I still think they could have mitigated the blow had they continued with their strategy, providing mid-tier JRPGs to a faithful audience who'd remain loyal to the system. Then we'd have a PS4/X1 split a lot closer 60/40 rather than the disastrous 85-90/15-10
But as Kagari said, as soon as FF13 came over, they dropped every other JRPG like a hot poo. This resulted in a huge stretch where JRPG fans, like me, were largely ignored for the rest of the generation (interestingly enough, it was around that time that a man named Phil Spencer became head of their worldwide studios), leaving such a strong impression that would most assuredly factor into the next-gen jump decision making.
It's pretty crazy to consider that. I know I was one of the many ps4 buyers of the witcher. Great game. Made me super excited for Horizon because one of the big quest writers for w3 is working on that game.
I'm actually interested to see how a game like Horizon does in Japan. The robo dino thing could grab the attention of fans of Zoids. Haha
Ottoni_Bastos
Banned
I agree with you that Xone tends to be more friendly with jRPG with western/lord of the ring style.
The problem with this logic though is that the jRPG audience and wRPG audience are not mutual exclusives.They overlap....a lot.. and this overlaps is getting a PS4 'cause you have both types there.
That means,and numbers are showing that,wRPGs like The Witcher will sell WAY more on PS4,more than the install base ratio would suggest.
As a result,wRPG will have very good to amazing sales on PS4 and underwhelming to okay-ish sales on Xone.
Add the fact that PS4 is only increasing the gap WW every month and it is pretty possible that even wRPG start skipping Xone.
Scalebound is DOA from my point of view,specially because microsoft will probably send this game to die in the holyday season.And the Dark souls 3 marketing deal,if exists,is the the biggest waste of money MS could do since the Souls series born on PS,From software was basically a Sony second party since '94 and bloodborne was just released on PS4.
MS spent years shapping the Xbox brand as the "american,shooter/sport box".They can't fix this over night or with one or two games.They have(but wont imo) to spent years investing in small studios with wRPG/jRPG exclusives to build a fanbase on Xbox.
I hope to god that scalebound is not released during the holidays it will get fucking destroyed. Did they learn anything from sunset overdrive at all?
Ottoni_Bastos
Banned
judging by this year's holiday season...nope!
Look at Tomb raider for example,it will be launched a little after HALO 5 and COD,and in the same day as Fallout 4(which microsoft have deal with) and after that Battlefront.
I have no hopes about TR legs.
Imo if i had to predict,tomb raider will have a nice launch week thanks to pre-orders,but the legs will be destroyed unless microsoft releases a holiday bundle.
I'm sure TR will get bundled the same way AssCreed was last year. They're guaranteed 2+ million units in US that way.