This. So much this.
Yeah I know when I bought my gtx 970 it cost me double w... wait.
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SCE Executive Vice President: Possible enhanced version PS4, no first party for Vita
- Thread starter miku
- Start date
This. So much this.
Yeah I know when I bought my gtx 970 it cost me double w... wait.
autoduelist
Member
Yes, absolutely. Most console owners are perfectly satisfied with their consoles. Because the PS4 [or Xbox, this isn't about brand] is the cutting-edge in console hardware on the market. Just like a large portion of people buying a Nintendo don't care if the WiiU is the most powerful machine on the planet, only that it's the current Nintendo machine on the planet. That makes it 'cutting edge' in the console market from the buyer's perspective [that is in the market for a Nintendo].
You are getting hung up trying to compare the power of a console to the potential power of a console or PC. That does not matter. All that matters [in the console market] is that the current device is the latest and greatest for that device. Other markets, like PCs are different.
I mean, people knew that the 360/PS3 were 'old' 5 years in... but it didn't matter, they were still 'the' consoles. That makes them the most powerful on the market, the ones that played the current games, etc.
No, you're conflating cross-brand and within a brand. This discussion is not about the difference in power between Xbox, Sony, and Nintendo. This specific point and discussion is about power differential within the brand. [The vast majority of] People buying a PS4 want a PS4... not a PS4.1 when they know a PS4.2 might come out in 6 months.
I'm not sure what makes this so difficult to understand -- the average family that decides to go out and spend $300-400 on the latest console [in this case, PS4] are doing so with the intent to buy into the 'new gen'. Even though they may have waited 3.5 years and 2 price drops to get a PS4, they still want to buy 'next/new gen'. It's cutting edge to them, regardless of how powerful PCs are. It doesn't matter that some people owned more powerful PCs at the PS4's launch, nor that they could put together a PC for the same price. All that matters is it's the machine that plays new games being sold 'best' for the brand they like [pc not included].
PdotMichael
Banned
Why? The dimishing return of more powerful hardware and longer developement cycles would rather play consoles into their hands.
It isn't like we are in the 90s when every year was basically a gamechanger in the hardware department.
1992
1998
We don't have that anymore. Crysis 1 from 2007 still looks top notch - 8 years later.
so much this
reading this thread you'd think people bought a PS4 just to guarantee that they had the biggest e-peen in the locker room
StereoVsn
Member
One Platform to Rule Them All... I started on writing out the whole reference, better stop now.
Incitemaybe
Member
Will wait for enhanced ps4 before getting one.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
I'd buy an upgraded PS4 tbh. The main reason I stay on console is to play with my friends and family. If I could get that, with better performance, why not?
It would piss off a lot of current owners though.
It would piss off a lot of current owners though.
RichiRamjag
Member
N64 had the right idea! Hey let you increase your memory for those gains! Lol
I wouldn't mind if they released a newer ps4, but I could see how it could turn some people off. In regards to all the people going on about PC, just stop for once, jeez. This is coming from a guy with a gaming rig. Gets old.
I wouldn't mind if they released a newer ps4, but I could see how it could turn some people off. In regards to all the people going on about PC, just stop for once, jeez. This is coming from a guy with a gaming rig. Gets old.
What? before calling out everyone, some of us buy Consoles to play game and not worry about expending more money on making my console play games for the next 5 or 6 years, to some people even more.
StereoVsn
Member
... He is talking about how he upgraded to 970 and you are bringing up Titan Z?
Ok, I'll bite (heck, I did but 980Ti), how would having a $999 PS4 Sku with more powerful GPU, CPU and 1TB SSD prevent you from enjoying games on say $400 PS4 which would play games same as they are now vs higher res on that PS4 Enthusiast Version?
You would though be able to play games for 5-6 years without buying new much the same the market works now. GTA V on PS3/360 is a good example. What of instead of PS4/Xbone having shitty performance with GTA 6 and having to rebuy GTA 6 on PS5/Xbox 2 (which lots of people did, mind you), you would have an option to upgrade to PS4.5 in 2 years and enjoy GTA 6 without having to BUY GTA 6 again?
mindblown.gif
CharminUltra
Member
My Vita looking like this is simply impossible. The storage container it's in is watertight.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
And nothing will change if they made a upgraded one. You can still play games on it for 5 years. No where did sony say there will be exclusive games.
Boombloxer
Member
If it's something like the old PS2+, that added features and had a + sign on the box, don't see how thats a problem. Games are still pushed to the baseline.
No yearly bullshit though.
mangochutney
Member
I posted it in response to you already, so I'll say it again.
Your original PS4 will still work.
In your earlier post you made a stupid claim it would die after a year. Utter nonsense. If anything it could end up prolonging it's life.
who said you had to do that? your PS4 isn't going to disappear once the upgraded version releases.
Becauser people that have 970 instead that card that you linked can't enjoy high fidelity graphics already.
If there's 1000 bucks GPU for people to buy, great, there's option? why we hate option? than made everyone stuck with 25 fps at every open world game on console.
And yet current console power barely keep up for ensuring technical stability most of big release.
If we does, those framerate check review is not a big traction in enthusiast space, and yet we had 100+ page thread everytime those DF/NXGamer review pop up.
IrishNinja
Member
PdotMichael
Banned
The DF reviews are our audio cable tests of the dedicated HiFi scene. There is a reason why f2p and stuff are dominating the PC markets which are designed to run on basically everything.
And no panic that games will stop running one the PS4, all engines are designed for it. Devs and publishers love the idea that they only need to port/develop their engines and tools once every 6 six years.
autoduelist
Member
No, you're missing the point. It's not about 'ego'... and if you're reading it that way, people in this thread are just fundamentally misunderstanding each other. It's about the average consumer wanting to go into a store, pick up a box, open it, plug in a console, and have the 'best' experience. That's it.
John Doe isn't all 'ego' buying his PS4 in 2016 when it gets it's second price cut. What people are saying is that the predominant console buyer just wants to put down $300-400 bucks and 'get' the right machine. Plug it in and go, and know all your friends are playing the same thing for compatibility sake. This market is -anything but- ego. They aren't trying to have the 'best machine' to prove they have a big one, they want the 'best machine' so they don't have to -think- about it, just go into the store and buy [when the price is right]. Most console buyers are not on forums, or even paying attention to the industry. They're just buying a console, man. And they want their $300 purchase to last years and for it to play everything on the shelf w/o needing to read labels or worry about issues.
As soon as you create a tiered market like some suggest in consoles, you push the majority of consumers away -- not because they have ego, but because they don't want to spend top dollar, but they want the latest model... which is why they were willing to wait 4+ years in the first place.
You guys should look at sales charts year over year for consoles. Most people are not buying in for years. The issue being discussed is not about ego, it's about technology buy-in.
EDIT - this option you want might be great for the small percent of early adopters [year 1 buyers with disposable income] but it fundamentally misunderstands and alienates the largest consumer of consoles.
StereoVsn
Member
Developers want to make money. Creating games for the widest variety of hardware would bring more money (hint, this is why Destiny was sold for 360/PS3). Much like a PC (personal computer, x86 platform), you would have scalable graphics that would address both PS4 Regular and PS4 Plus and PS4 Enthusiast. If anything, games would come to PS4 Regular for longer and you wouldn't have software droughts on new hardware.
StereoVsn
Member
No, no, Yoshida is going to come to everyone's houses and personally smash all the vanilla PS4s. Seriously, everybody would still have a good (or good enough, see latest AC games or GTAV/Tales of Z on PS3) experience on PS4 Vanilla, it's just much the same as with PCs, you would have enhanced experience with PS4 Super Plus.
i think others are arguing that this isn't the deciding factor for most console sales.
Yeah it's not like the overwhelming majority of these same developers are developing games for an open platform with a massively wide range of hardware on the market.
We're not dealing with esoteric custom hardware anymore. They're already coding to APIs that abstract the hardware for the most part.
"The best" - no ego involved at all lol
PdotMichael
Banned
It would be smarter to just release a PS5 with the same architecture with back- and potential forward compatibility - so PS5 users can run all still incoming PS4 titles and developers have it easier to design cross-gen games.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
It still hurts to remind us
RandomSeed
Member
They need to focus on more games, screw the hardware. Freaking BloodborneStation 4 over here.
Freaking BloodborneStation 4 over here.
I think a PS4 with moderate improvements is welcome as long as it's quieter, slimmer and enhance some of the non-core gaming features (1080p60 broadcasting?). Maybe enhance textures and models if developers want to go the extra step. The 3DS received an upgraded system. It didn't fragment the user base at all. There's around two exclusives for that specific revision off the top of my head (Xenoblade and Binding of Isaac). It made secondary features like web browsing and certain games a little bit faster. Few games like Monster Hunter received better textures but the older systems didn't suddenly combust because of it.
Anyways, I think Sony ought to be free to make tweaks to the PS4 hardware as long as they're making an extension of existing hardware and not creating something entirely new.
Anyways, I think Sony ought to be free to make tweaks to the PS4 hardware as long as they're making an extension of existing hardware and not creating something entirely new.
autoduelist
Member
Only if you intentionally misread my entire post. If you can't understand the context of what many of us are saying at this point, I don't know what to tell you. The console market has never been about cutting edge in the way some of you clearly want it to be. I can understand why you want it to be that way, but it's not, and it won't be.
That people are trying to claim it's ego, when in fact it's the opposite - people not giving a hoot about having the absolute best. Again, people buying a ps4 in 2016 or 2017 do not give a flying rat's butt about gaming ego. But they do want to just go in and buy 'a PS4'/'Xbox' and know it's essentially the same as everybody elses. That's not due to ego. That's due to market simplicity, which is a huge selling point for consoles.
EDIT - this thread would go much better if you stop trying to spin the opposition's points and, instead, try to understand them. I certainly 'get' why you want the PS4 to be iterative -- better tech, better games, they won't hold back pc's as much, etc, etc, and on and on and on.... there are plenty of good reasons. Heck, I bought a PS4 day 1 and will do the same for my PS5. But these reasons pale in comparison to -why- I, and many others, buy a console. It's about simplicity and knowing every single game I buy for the next X years works perfectly w/o even thinking about it, and knowing I don't need to think, consider, debate or otherwise give a hoot about buying new tech for 7ish years.
PdotMichael
Banned
API isn't a new concept but common. Doesn't change the fact that every engine must designed around the architecture and features of the new hardware to take advantage of it.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Fragmentation. Don't so this Sony...
Alex Stroud
Banned
Anyone dumb enough to buy a high-performance PS4 for the no-doubt astronomical price tag Sony would slap onto it deserves to be laughed at. Just wait for the PS5 so Sony can begin remastering PS4 games. I don't know about you all, but I'm pretty jazzed for the inevitable Uncharted 4 remaster. If Bluepoint can push it to 60 fps, I'm sold.
StereoVsn
Member
A good thread to cross read with this one is about MS now reporting number of Live users and not consoles sold. IMO, you will see Xbone become a platform service on top of Win10 within 3 years. Most likely we'll see Surface Box that can do bunch of stuff including playing games and perhaps some sort of a service on any Windows 10 PC.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1128627&page=8
The whole POINT of the discussion is that there wouldn't necessarily be a PS5 as we think about console gens right now, it would be more like a PC. You would not need to buy a remaster as your PS4.5, PS5, etc... would just play that game with enhanced graphics. Not to say a developer might not put out an enhanced GotY version, but in general, things will play on the platform with boxes being able to access it. Microsoft will probably get there faster then Sony.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1128627&page=8
The whole POINT of the discussion is that there wouldn't necessarily be a PS5 as we think about console gens right now, it would be more like a PC. You would not need to buy a remaster as your PS4.5, PS5, etc... would just play that game with enhanced graphics. Not to say a developer might not put out an enhanced GotY version, but in general, things will play on the platform with boxes being able to access it. Microsoft will probably get there faster then Sony.
I think you missed my point, his point and my point as well, Originally I said that a Gaming card can cost more than Double than a Console, this is a fact, he brought his gaming card trying to disprove my point, and My last post in fact is showing that a gaming card can cost more than double than a console.
To repeat the idea, You see yourself upgrading PC hardware every other year where a Gaming card can Cost more than double what I pay for a console that I dont have to spent a penny to upgrade in 5 or 6 years or I have to be building for that matter. Are there people that get less expensive Gaming card? Never said they didnt, heck People will probably stay with the same PC spec for years, but That was not what I was talking about.
And how do yo even know this can be done on console? Game is already optimized for the current hardware, Developer will still have to optimized the Game for the new Hardware, unless they code that in before hand and this just seem like asking for people outrage "yeah. that disc you have there, it actually plays better if you just pay another 400 dollars" come on, this is the type of things GAF will and should fight against.
Do you also think SONY will just make another PS4 only for those who want to upgrade? NO, they will do so to have everyone to jump in, every piece of Marketing will be aimed to sell you the new hardware and the original PS4 owner will just feel they are not part of the current gen.
I love my PS4, but, a PS4 with better HW spec seems like a bad idea in the sense of money earning for Sony.
But Im going to be playing in an obsolete console, and even if Sony didnt talked about it, Exclusive will come because that comes with new console territory.
How will it prolonged its life when games are going to be released for a higher spec console? is like saying the PS4 is prolonging the PS3 life.
Im talking baout your post calling PS4 owners out as epeen competitors,and some of us, just buy a console to game for 5 or 6 year without need to spent money on the console specs.
Maybe in this page, but the console gamer, the average Console gamer doesn't do pixel counting, or Frame rate and resolution arguing, or have good knowledge, if any, of all those technically details that people go trough when it comes to the game graphics.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
There is another reason why releasing a high power, backwards compatible machine makes sense for any of the manufacturers: It makes their already existing userbase less likely to drop money on the competing hardware, if they know that PS4++ is just around the corner. It just makes people that much more locked into the ecosystem.
joecanada
Member
Not really sell them. When ps3 was 599 and 499 or whatever lots of people bought the cheap one and they didn't get lots of stuff. this could just be for performance boost no harm no foul
AngryNapkin
Banned
What is probably being discussed and what I'm sure has been mentioned is a PS4 Slim where it "might" have better wifi, SSHD, SATA III, or other things along with 14nm with an over clocked APU that wouldn't be taken advantage of unless it was VR and even then it's an over clock of a 7870 class GPU with a weak CPU even if the CPU gets a bump too.
They won't fragment their base, that's not happening for multiple reasons. Best you could hope for would be a minimum FPS of 58 vs 56 or something trivial.
There wouldn't be any changes in minimum and maximum frame rates or graphical differences. They would still target 30/60 or 900/1080 and the only hardware difference would be that very slight variation when the frame rate drops ever so slightly.
They most certainly won't do some PS4S or some nonsense.
They won't fragment their base, that's not happening for multiple reasons. Best you could hope for would be a minimum FPS of 58 vs 56 or something trivial.
There wouldn't be any changes in minimum and maximum frame rates or graphical differences. They would still target 30/60 or 900/1080 and the only hardware difference would be that very slight variation when the frame rate drops ever so slightly.
They most certainly won't do some PS4S or some nonsense.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
PS4+
AngryNapkin
Banned
No the best we will see is backwards compatibility with a PS5 and the same OS from PS4. OS updates would be released for both assuming the architecture is the same just updated memory and APU.
joecanada
Member
You wouldn't have to and if you want to you should already have a pc. Ps3 was already two tiered in features
Head.spawn
Junior Member
PS4-U
The cell is actually a fantastic CPU & an engineering achievement, it can still do more things current gen CPUs can't, even high end ones, a lot of developers just didn't know how to use it properly, which is understandable from their POV.
More like, in another 4 or 5 years.