brandonh83
Banned
There was too much awesome shit going on in the movie at all times to where I didn't care about lack of Phasma, and I presume she'll be in the next few more.
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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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because of that (quoting myself from the last spoiler thread)
but of course the theme could be used as a "Dark Side" theme..in the end we can only wait and see..but speculating is so much fun
Well, just saw it again. I've been sucking up every single bit of extra info from both the Visual Dictionary and novelization too, so I enjoyed seeing more background stuff that I now have more info about and also managed to pick-up some great bits like these:
- Yep, it's Ewan McGregor saying "Rey?!" and it's a question being shouted. I saw it in Mexico, and noticed that when Obi-wan's voice shouts "Rey" it's subtitled as a question, so Obi-wan shouts asking Rey if it's her. Curious.
- I'm sure we see Kylo Ren killing another KOR in Rey's vision. The guy with a hat is about to swing his weapon at someone but Kylo stabs him from behind. Did he save Rey's life?
- I don't know if this has been mentioned, but when Kylo is first probing Rey's thoughts at Starkiller base, he lists some of the things he's seen in Rey's mind, and mentions "an island in the middle of an ocean," meaning either that it is something Rey constantly dreams about or has had visions of. The island in the middle of the ocean, of course, is Luke's hiding place. And no, I don't think she got that from looking at the map.
Well the whole debate was started by someone who brought up the Rule of Two tradition, which is a Sith thing
Im guessing its Obiwan's Force Ghost sensing her being exposed to the force for the first time
The One and Done
Member
Didn't boba fett not play a major role in the OT? But people loved him. They must have expected that with phasma. The trilogy has just started so surely there will be more.
Monocle
Member
What if they're like the Magic Mike guys of the Star Wars universe and they do shows to improve the stormtroopers' morale? (And help them make sure their codpieces are battle ready.)
Could just be Plagueis' "spiritual successor."
It would seem Plagueis in some ways defied the Sith tradition in what he sought to explore. Snoke may be continuing that line of work.
eyeball_kid
Member
It's strange...there are definitely Nazi overtones to the First Order, but what their goal is as an organization is unknown, unless it's simply to restore the Empire. Similarly, the Republic feels like pre-WWII America. Ragtag military comprised of outdated equipment, and then the First Order's massive surprise attack a la Pearl Harbor. I'm guessing we'll see what's left of the Republic get into war mode in the next film.
Nemesis121
Member
Manifacturing handicaps would be imagining that maybe he is uncomfortable hitting a woman. The doubts I mentioned in that post is literally the entire point of his character arc. He's torn, he's unstable, he spends his saturday nights talking to the charred helmet of his evil grandfather asking for help not to be seduced by the light side. He literally says that his main concern is that he still cares for his father. The act of finally killing him is supposed to be one of closure, but anyone with eyes can see that he's more distressed than ever. At the beginning of the movie, when someone shot at him while his guard was dropped, he was quick enough to catch the blaster fire. This time, right after killing Han, Chewbacca performed the same action, and he took a hit. What could possibly have been the difference between that situation and this one? Is it because he literally just murdered his own father? That's what cinematic emphasis is, not Ren's face twisting up any.
Yeah, that's not emotional turmoil. Luke fighting to save his father, he's focused on one goal: saving his father. When he's pissed, he's focused on one goal as well: Protecting his sister. When he's calmed down, he is focused again on one goal: saving his father. His goal may have momentarily switched in the moment of rage, but he's not conflicted about about either of them. He doesn't want to kill his father. If he had to kill his father to protect his sister...maybe, but then he realizes that he just beat him, so there's no point in killing him. If there is a dark side temptation that the emperor was playing on, it would be his desire to protect his loved ones enough that he would take extreme measures to do it. That was a real temptation and Luke could potentially fall into it in the right circumstance perhaps...but not there. He knew the emperor was playing him, so his temptation was momentary at best. He was otherwise confident in what he wanted and how he wanted to do it.
Rage isn't a positive emotion and the emperor certainly wasn't giving him good advise, but the series ethos had always been that doubt is the emotion that fucked up your abilities, and those are separate things. The turmoil that Ren faced is literally nothing like Luke's. Luke's rage isn't inherently a destabilizing factor, and the most you can say is that he momentary doubted that perhaps his father could be saved. Ren, by comparison, is in the thrall of anguish, thinking that his act of patricide should have eliminated all weakness from him when he's clearly in greater doubt than ever. That's why he asks Rey to join him. He's desperate for validation, because he needs someone to assure him that he actually made the right call.
Right but that's apparently not true of the officers. The one dude on Starkiller base beats a hasty retreat when the planet starts collapsing.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think Snoke is Plagueis. I don't think the music is a clue. Normally I would think that. But there's not a lot about the score of this movie that is either inspiring, or inspired-sounding. I think the "Snoke" cue is in keeping with that.
Also, I think the bigger problem with Snoke is that he ain't shit, and people don't give a fuck about him beyond the "is he Plagueis or not" bullshit certain segments of the fandom keep wrestling with.
As a villain named Snoke in The Force Awakens, he's not doing much for anyone.
Also, I think the bigger problem with Snoke is that he ain't shit, and people don't give a fuck about him beyond the "is he Plagueis or not" bullshit certain segments of the fandom keep wrestling with.
As a villain named Snoke in The Force Awakens, he's not doing much for anyone.
that would be interesting too! snoke as a strong force sensitive found some plagueis stuff and learned from them etc.
brandonh83
Banned
3D looked incredible at the Regal IMAX in Orlando. I do mean incredible. The flying scenes felt like a damned motion simulator.
lastplayed
Member
Also sounds like when the Tripods came out of the water in War of the Worlds.
Maybe Darth Plagueis is a martian.
Christopher
Member
Anyone think Rey will get Leia next?
Ren?
The One and Done;189960902 said:
People loved Boba Fett initially because he was a badass. He showed up first in ESB and just wrecked Han Solo and Co. I mean the first show we see of him fucking Darth Vader is telling him to basically "cool it" I want these fugitives alive. Then after the whole Empire is fooled by Solo's ingenuity, Boba is the one on top of him the whole time. We get to even see him talk shit to Vader after capturing them all and he ambushes Luke before escaping with Solo. He was effective and menacing for the few times he was on screen.
Phasma just walked around in this movie before being thrown in a garbage bin, I said it before in the other thread but I think it's impossible to set her up as a badass in any future films after this movie.
The One and Done
Member
Wasn't one of those things the Wilhelm scream as he got unceremoniously ejected from the film? Lol. There is still hope.
#phasmalives
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know how Leia dies, but yeah - none of the OT trio survives this trilogy. That's part of the progression. The new has to move beyond the old. The old has to make way for the new.
Psychoward
Banned
D.Lo
Member
The beat there was that Finn was hyped as getting revenge for Rey's 'death' (and Han's actual death). So he was fighting like a hero, giving it everything he had. He was going to be the new Jedi.
But then the movie turned it around, Rey was the Jedi.
So it makes sense from a storytelling perspective.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Still not a fan of the idea of Rey being a Kenobi, it's bit too out of left field for my liking and seems like a twist for the sake of the outcome of her parentage not being obvious.
Though what if it was her mother that was a Kenobi (taken the place of Mara Jade) and Luke was still her father?
DUN DUN DUN!
I bought that up in the last topic but it got overlooked though I'm sure it was brought up before then but I agree, it makes sense. How did the Leia find out about the map piece in his possession in the first place though?
Though what if it was her mother that was a Kenobi (taken the place of Mara Jade) and Luke was still her father?
DUN DUN DUN!
I bought that up in the last topic but it got overlooked though I'm sure it was brought up before then but I agree, it makes sense. How did the Leia find out about the map piece in his possession in the first place though?
I saw it in imax 3d and in normal the next day, I thought the 3d was better. I had a kind of shit seat at imax and thought I was getting some ghosting/halos around some things the whole time, which made it feel a tad blurry in parts of the screen (IE: the usual 3d downsides), but then when I saw it in 2d....I thought it was EVEN HARDER to follow things, they don't have a lot of gimmicky shots, but they really make the foreground objects pop overall in the film, and all the vistas are MUCH more readable in 3d. Even when it's quick moving action stuff it's really easy to tell what is what because they put enough depth into all of it. In 2d some of that shit mashed together to me. (and I had already seen it by that point, so I KNEW what was happening).
Well, I'll probably be there tomorrow to see for myself.
I don't think he kills another Knight of Ren; it doesn't make sense that he killed a KOR then poses with the rest of them.
This, I see as the strongest piece of evidence for the idea that Rey has a prior connection to Luke.
The One and Done
Member
Fucking dead
Prototype Viktor
Member
can put anyone in the suit/get up so can contract anyone to play the role unlike those other meat bags
Thickstone
Member
I wonder, do you think that they actually destroyed Coruscant?
Sorry if this has already been asked.
Sorry if this has already been asked.
Atraveller
Banned
Training and philosophy I guess.
brandonh83
Banned
So many Orlandbros here! I actually don't live here just visiting, though I do live in FL.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
holy SHIT.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Coruscant never appears in this film.
This is great.
Well 4:20am is far too late to be up as an east coaster... until next time...
just came back from my second viewing. a few thoughts:
Han's death needed some sort of eulogy. it feels a bit rushed what with the aerial battle going on and the lightsaber battle right after it. fucking qui gon was cremated and even padme had a burial or whatever.
the reveal that kylo is han's son should have come from han himself, not from snoke or whoever the fuck first said. the drama would have been better served this way.
r2d2 was shown too early. felt fan-servicey. i can allow bb-8 making his comment that perhaps r2 has the rest of the map but dont pull the literal curtains off r2 for a seconds-long scene. let c3po say explain r2 is inoperable or in low power mode and keep his reveal for the end of the film. although this would have required reworking rey's premonition
if snoke is the palpatine stand-in then i think his introduction here is premature. keep him shadows/wearing a cloak.
chewie should have died with han. chewie is the honorable sidekick. emphasis on sidekick. fuck is he gonna in the next movies? chewie should have gone down with his best friend in a fit of rage and explosions
Han's death needed some sort of eulogy. it feels a bit rushed what with the aerial battle going on and the lightsaber battle right after it. fucking qui gon was cremated and even padme had a burial or whatever.
the reveal that kylo is han's son should have come from han himself, not from snoke or whoever the fuck first said. the drama would have been better served this way.
r2d2 was shown too early. felt fan-servicey. i can allow bb-8 making his comment that perhaps r2 has the rest of the map but dont pull the literal curtains off r2 for a seconds-long scene. let c3po say explain r2 is inoperable or in low power mode and keep his reveal for the end of the film. although this would have required reworking rey's premonition
if snoke is the palpatine stand-in then i think his introduction here is premature. keep him shadows/wearing a cloak.
chewie should have died with han. chewie is the honorable sidekick. emphasis on sidekick. fuck is he gonna in the next movies? chewie should have gone down with his best friend in a fit of rage and explosions
I was raised there but tomorrow I'll be coming down for the holidays and am going to see the movie again with family.
Obi-Wan never got a eulogy and his death transitioned straight to the Death Star run.
No, the rule of two is only a core belief of one sect of the siths.
Is this canon or EU? Or are you suggesting it's like parlay, merely a guideline.
brandonh83
Banned
Cool! Safe travels, you'll be impressed with the theater. It's stunning. The bass will make you feel like your heart may stop lol.
I get what you're saying but I think Plagueis is the only real way to go beyond Palpatine on the evil scale. After TFA why the fuck is anyone afraid of the dark side? Snoke has to be tied to something momentous.
Oh, I've been to the Pointe Orlando IMAX theater many times.
i understand this. but i feel the circumstances here are a bit different, what with han being an established pop culture icon. obi wans death also marked the beginning of luke's journey in that film at around, what, the 30 minute mark? han's death came at the end. it should have been a heartfelt conclusion to the first act of rey's journey
Nemesis121
Member
Snoke being Darth Plagueis strong possibility, The Emperor, Plagueis apprentice said he could manipulate the midi-chlorians to create life...what if Plagueis recreated himself, knowing his apprentice would take his life as part of the Rule of Two mandate...just another crazy theory while we wait for Episode 8..
So he was hit in a moment of guard-down immediately after killing his own dad, okay that is fine. It just doesn't address the later Kylo vs Rey where there was no in-fight visual indication he was clearly handicapped by said doubt or bowcaster injury. Rey beat him straight up, almost effortlessly after she closed her eyes for a bit.
There is no oversight, Kylo is just very underpowered. Maybe EP8 will have some growth arcs for him but I wonder if he can stand up to Rey with actual training from Luke.
1) Looks like a duck. Quacks like a duck. Master dark side force user. One of two dark side force users that we actually see on screen. Sith are the only master dark side force users seen in any of the films, just as the Jedi are the only master light side force users. Snoke is Ren's master. Snoke uses Ren as an "enforcer" for the First Order, just as the Emperor used Vader. Ren has a hard-on for following in Vader's footsteps. Both Snoke and Ren are dying to kill all the Jedi in the universe. It's their main goal. They're not just re-building a new Empire. Finding and killing Luke is a priority.
2) A title doesn't make or break a Sith.
3) Abrams also said that the 3D effects were amazing and talked up Phasma. There are also two more films to come from different directors. I wouldn't take anything he says as canon unless it happened on-screen.
4) Why is Snoke so hell bent on killing Luke then? Dude's been long gone for years. Why is Ren so hell bent on becoming Vader? Doesn't seem like either one has let go of the flaws of the past.
5) Nothing shown on film conveys that.
Could they be some all-new dark side masters? It's possible. But until something is shown on film to indicate that, they look and act just like the Sith that came before them. They even have the same base motivations. Power and killing all Jedi. All signs point to them being followers of Sith doctrine.
If you want to claim they absolutely aren't, cite something from the film that shows otherwise.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
So is Rey's staff two old Lightsabers stuck together? Kinda looks that way to me, Darth Mauls Lightsabers to be specific. Also my guess to her lineage is Jinn. Her being a Skywalker is too easy and I don't think that Disney is going to completely rule out the prequels, and they shouldn't.
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