Oh yeah sorry, I forgot, they jettisoned it all. I don't even know what they kept. At least in the old EU the siths from the old republic didn't have such rules and it only happened one thousand years ago. I would like to say it's safe to assume that it's only a rule for one sect of the siths but that is an assumption and my words don't have any objectivity.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
- Status
Oh yeah sorry, I forgot, they jettisoned it all. I don't even know what they kept. At least in the old EU the siths from the old republic didn't have such rules and it only happened one thousand years ago. I would like to say it's safe to assume that it's only a rule for one sect of the siths but that is an assumption and my words don't have any objectivity.
? Obi-Wan speaks to Luke in the trench run. The memory / ghost of Obi-Wan saves the damn galaxy.
Han gets... Leia hugs a kid she never met?
The Artisan
Member
I was LTTP to the spoiler thread, here was my initial post
the little orange alien woman was cute and probably my favorite character.
Like I said, I'm not a veteran of the star wars films like most, so it didn't strike a cord with me that hans solo died, but I was still like, whoa - where are they gonna go next with his son? is he gonna die? then he had a faceoff but survived. nice.
who was the big giant evil alien? was he a new character?
and towards the end of the movie, like, what ended up being the last few minutes, I was thinking to myself, damn...this whole movie is about finding luke skywalker so if they end it, it'll be such an unsatisfying cliffhanger for me. but then...he did show up. and despite it being practically a cameo, it was great. great ending, great movie.
I was a little upset in the beginning to have (thought) seen that they killed off the pilot character, I liked the relationship he was starting with "Finn". and was pleasantly surprised to see he survived and popped up later on in the movie.
the little orange alien woman was cute and probably my favorite character.
Like I said, I'm not a veteran of the star wars films like most, so it didn't strike a cord with me that hans solo died, but I was still like, whoa - where are they gonna go next with his son? is he gonna die? then he had a faceoff but survived. nice.
who was the big giant evil alien? was he a new character?
and towards the end of the movie, like, what ended up being the last few minutes, I was thinking to myself, damn...this whole movie is about finding luke skywalker so if they end it, it'll be such an unsatisfying cliffhanger for me. but then...he did show up. and despite it being practically a cameo, it was great. great ending, great movie.
lastplayed
Member
Well, I think they're also in the Lollipop Guild. If you want to claim they absolutely aren't, cite something from the film that shows otherwise.
i would have been okay with the force theme kicking in during a funeral sequence for han, followed by it getting more hopeful and building towards the credits as the millennium falcon hits hyperdrive and disappears into space.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Writer/director claims on the record the shit ain't a duck.
No ducks.
Further - Snoke's problem isn't that he may or may not be a sith, it's that audiences seem to not give a shit about his boring, orc-y ass.
I thought so too, and didn't quite believe a theory I read on Reddit about what happened at the massacre, and that was based on this being what we see in the movie.
So, I went into the second view planning to watch this scene closely in order to determine if this is what indeed happens.
And yeah, the guy in the hat is aiming at someone in front of him with his weapon, but Kylo's lightsaber gets him from behind, almost like not expect it. Several (bootleg, duh) screenshots of the scene confirm the guy in the hat has mismatched armor, possibly Mandalorian, pointing more towards him being one of the Knights of Ren, as they all seem to be wearing scraps of different types of armor.
Also, the movie's novelization adds more proof, with Kylo Ren saying to Rey in Takodana "It IS you", as if recognizing her.
We need to really have video of it in order to analyze it more, of course, I could be wrong, but several others have said this is what they saw too.
Writer/director claims on the record that Greedo shot first.
Agree with this. The hologram images of the Emperor in the OT made him seem threatening. Snoke kinda looked like a cartoon character.
What, you think that just vanishes after the first second or two? "Killed my dad? So 3 minutes ago, I'm over that."
The visual indication is best shown in his acting where he's talking to Rey. He's basically pleading her to join him, for that validation I mentioned earlier. He needs to be right about this. Meanwhile, those words lead Rey to her own self actualization, that she is strong in the force, finally embracing her identity, and overpowers him via that self empowerment.
The visual indications are there, they're just in the acting, not crippled fighting style. Look at Ren's anguished faced, how he's barely holding himself together, beating on his chest. He's trying to convince himself that he's strong now, that the wounds don't bother him, that he can take anything. He killed his father for power he thought he'd get, so he's trying to act the part of the invulnerable, but he's simply not okay, physically or emotionally. The same way that Vader isn't as strong as he ever was in the RotJ with Luke, but Luke's constant "You can still do right by me" meant he doubted himself and was weaker than in their ESB fight.
It's not about the moves. It's about understanding the mental framework of the characters. And people can grin and bare their teeth through pain. THe fact that he is intent on ignoring his injuries and even beating them worse, as if to make the point that they don't hinder him does not mean they're not hindering him.
also, during my first viewing i was under the impression Finn was A CLONE. this made the scene with the talking yam lady with the big eyes more dramatic. she was looking at Finn's eyes to see if he was a clone/imperial spy. but then my second viewing cleared this up, that he isnt a clone, and then that scene wasnt as cool
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Writer/Director altered the film to make that the case. Also - completely different writer/director, completely different movie.
This isn't the greatest argument you're putting forth. Dunno why you keep pursuing it. There's not really anything worth much of much at the end of it.
No he doesn't. He's the Wizard of Oz. I bet Kylo figures this out at some point and flips his shit.
If he is Plagueis they have to answer that and a lot more questions.
Why form the house of Ren? Who is/what/are the house of Ren? Are they sith? How is it any different to Darth? In what way did/does Plagueis cheat death? etc.
EDIT: Knights of Ren*
VARIA
Member
Well, Han still lives on in Ben (Kylo). We haven't seen the end of his journey, yet.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
I love the way Poe was written. Not a hint of cynicism, and Oscar plays him so straight that you can't help but like the guy's infectious enthusiasm. He reminds me of the Captain America in the MCU - what you see is what you get.
I hate Finn's backstory of being Stormtrooper from birth. It just ruins the ability for a good backstory that reinforced his arc and didn't add further needless complexity onto Stormtroopers. Like, how about he just be some guy who joined up with the First Order to pay back some debts he had. And, thanks to his laziness or craftiness got a nice cushy job in sanitation so he didn't have to worry about dying in any fight. This of course would reinforce his cowardly trait, of being the guy who tries to run/talk his way far from a fight rather than get involved.
victreeb3l
Member
Just saw it.
What I liked:
- Rey and Finn are great characters. Loved the first third of the movie with those two.
- BB8. Amazing little guy
- Great effects. 3D was excellent and the audio effects were orgasmic
- Better than Episodes 1-3
- Rey has the most adorable run ever. Shes great
- Po(?) was great too. Damn I really loved that first third of the movie
What I disliked:
- Too much nostalgia. Movie felt way too familiar. I rolled my fucking eyes super hard when it was yet another Death Star and how it was eventually taken down.
- Lame ass villain. Kylo is a punk ass with daddy issues. He doesnt seem threatening at all, just a spoiled kid throwing tantrums.
- Killing Han. Fuck that, I was not cool with that at all
- I thought Phasma was gonna do, well, something in this movie. She didnt do shit
- Very disappointed with Finn not being a Jedi. I knew Rey would eventually awaken powers but the marketing made it seem like Finn was gonna be the new Jedi. I mean nothing rules him out in future installments but Im not optimistic. Its like a Halo 5 level letdown imo
- Some parts felt way too much like the Star Trek movie, especially the planet destruction
Overall I liked it but it had problems, especially the second half. I'm gonna cancel my IMAX tickets for next week, I dont have the desire to rewatch it so soon
What I liked:
- Rey and Finn are great characters. Loved the first third of the movie with those two.
- BB8. Amazing little guy
- Great effects. 3D was excellent and the audio effects were orgasmic
- Better than Episodes 1-3
- Rey has the most adorable run ever. Shes great
- Po(?) was great too. Damn I really loved that first third of the movie
What I disliked:
- Too much nostalgia. Movie felt way too familiar. I rolled my fucking eyes super hard when it was yet another Death Star and how it was eventually taken down.
- Lame ass villain. Kylo is a punk ass with daddy issues. He doesnt seem threatening at all, just a spoiled kid throwing tantrums.
- Killing Han. Fuck that, I was not cool with that at all
- I thought Phasma was gonna do, well, something in this movie. She didnt do shit
- Very disappointed with Finn not being a Jedi. I knew Rey would eventually awaken powers but the marketing made it seem like Finn was gonna be the new Jedi. I mean nothing rules him out in future installments but Im not optimistic. Its like a Halo 5 level letdown imo
- Some parts felt way too much like the Star Trek movie, especially the planet destruction
Overall I liked it but it had problems, especially the second half. I'm gonna cancel my IMAX tickets for next week, I dont have the desire to rewatch it so soon
well the sanitation stuff wound up being a callback to anh on top of adding to his 'don't wanna fight (unless it's killing stormtroopers)' nature
Also, FWIW, he is limping through the entire fight.
The film has problems, but boy the way the ending fight played out is not one of them. They all but spell out why it plays out the way it does.
It's debating what's seen in the film.
The actual confirmation or denial will be what we see in future Episodes. It doesn't matter what Abrams said in some press interview.
Only putting it forth because you keep making the assertion that there are no Sith in the film and, based solely on what is seen in the film, I don't think there is any way to make that statement with certainty.
At this point it seems that they are more likely than not, Sith. Your whole argument seems to hinge on an off screen comment. Especially from Abrams, who has a history of throwing things out there without a plan.
I feel like this guy gonna be that one character that most of us will have quite the divided opinion of.
I really liked him. He feels like Anakin done right.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The most Star Wars moment in a film that's trying to be the most Star Wars movie that's ever Star Warsed:
Rey catches a lightsaber in a snowy forest.
This starts playing.
Rey catches a lightsaber in a snowy forest.
This starts playing.
TheForceWithin
Banned
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Also do we assume that Lando is the Fleet General? I Did.
Iriscomeback
Member
Got massive feels at that point... so good.
I knew I heard that variation of the theme somewhere.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No it's not. It's suggesting that because you don't see anything in the film that specifically disqualifies your pet theory, that your pet theory is not only valid, it's correct until proven otherwise.
But it isn't. Because you don't really get to say
Because it does.
Again - I don't get why you're pursuing this. There's not much of worth at the end of it.
NumberThree
Member
Yup. That's the moment that's making me go watch this movie again.
Scarecrow
Member
I appreciated the advancements in hologram tech for Snoke.
It bugged me in all other EU stuff that all the hologram calls had to be static-y blue heads/people. That was hilarious in The Old Republic, where it seemed everyone had the same technology since thousands of years BBY.
It bugged me in all other EU stuff that all the hologram calls had to be static-y blue heads/people. That was hilarious in The Old Republic, where it seemed everyone had the same technology since thousands of years BBY.
I actually want to retract my original support for this statement and replace it with Ren is "Anakin as portrayed in AOTC & ROTS done right." However, in my opinion, Darth Revan is the story of Anakin Skywalker done right. A brilliant war hero and tactician who through constant battle slowly succumbs to the Dark Side as the realities of war cause his tactics to become more brutal and harsh and thus through the chaos of war supports a new government bent on Order.
victreeb3l
Member
I think once we get a more fleshed out backstory, I might view him differently. I want to see how he was as a kid, and what started his transformation. Han/Leia mentioned they sent him away for a while so I'd like to see what happened then.
I do like that he's been struggling with his choice and he's close to the light already. I was afraid Han would be able to turn him already in the first movie, so I'm happy he wasnt able to. Its a shame he had to die though lol
Oh of course. I mean, though he does have 1 or 2 moments during Episode I for better or (a lot more) worse, nobody cares about Jake Lloyd Anakin.
And yet with all that "indoctrination" the Stormtroopers in the movie feel more like normal guys in armor than any Stormtrooper in the previous movies. It's not just Finn who broke away, but just look at the how the other troopers behave. When they see Ren raging, they would even go "nope.jpg" and turn back just to give him room. I'm just pointing out how it comes off in the movie. There's an oddly human touch to how everything is portrayed, intentional or otherwise.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Might be my favorite part of the film, I was sitting in my seat like "c'mon girl you can do it" and then boom and I clapped and yelled...so much fun!
The biggest problem for me is that this is the first part of a trilogy that we don't have the other two parts to. For some reason, I just feel that each individual OT film is more self contained than this except MAYBE ESB. However, for me, it's very clear that there are characters arcs incomplete and mysteries that need to be answered. Now, I will rage as much as anyone if by the time we come to the end, we are left with plot holes. But as of now, stuff like why Luke left a map isn't that big a deal to me because...well, we don't know why Luke left a map. Maybe it was his intention to be found, but wanted to make it difficult by dividing it up elsewhere.
A plothole is only a plothole if it directly contradicts some piece of information that we can't find some sort of resolution for. What we have here are some gaps of information that we might very well have filled by the second and third movies. So it's hard to tell what's an actual problem and what is going to be answered in time. Or what is actually a mistake by the writers that are going to read this thread and fix it in the next film anyway.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They sent him to Luke. Leia makes it sound like they sent him there because they could already tell he was succumbing to the dark side.
Pretty much everyone I went with walked out thinking that Rey is Luke's daughter.
From a fan perspective, sure. But from the movie's perspective? Nah. It seemed like the only ones really connected to Han that were present at the end were Leia and Chewbacca. A eulogy would've felt out of place.
I'm not bothered by it, actually kinda glad they got it out of the way so quickly, rather than drawing out the mystery of who his father is for the entire film. Would've felt too much like they were going for another ESB type reveal.
I don't think they are Sith. There's a line in the movie that pretty much calls them different factions. I think it was something like: "I've seen the Sith, the rise of the Empire, and now the First Order." Seems like they were going throught trouble to differentiate them.
The only thing that kinda bothered me was the map to Luke. Was he in uncharted territory or something? If not then it seems kinda weird that they would need the rest of the map. Idk, it just bugged me for some reason.
chicko1983
Member
IIRC, they said he was so full of anger, and they thought Luke could help him, but they should never have sent him away. Sounds like a problematic child. Or maybe bad parenting. *cough*
Iriscomeback
Member
I also really loved that part where Finn and Rey run, and Finn is like: 'let's take that ship!' and Rey says 'No, that's just a rustbucket.'
At that point I knew they were talking about the Falcon. Very clever!
At that point I knew they were talking about the Falcon. Very clever!
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Question:
Is "Ren" like Darth now? Were all the other knights "something Ren" and I missed it or did they not explain that in the film?
Is "Ren" like Darth now? Were all the other knights "something Ren" and I missed it or did they not explain that in the film?
My bet is Chewie AND Leia WHILE crash coursing the Falcon
I don't think so, but we don't have much to go on. From what we can tell, Kylo Ren is just the new name he took on after bailing on his past. Since he's the leader of the unit, Knights of Ren could just be named after him. We won't know for sure until we meet any of them, since we don't know a single other Knight of Ren.
I agree with both of these. That R2 reveal was easily the worst shot in the movie for me, it's litreally just like, "and here's R2! Remember, him!?" Ugh.
I also thought that Chewie was going to die and should have died with Han, perhaps get executed by Ren as well. I don't really see the purpose to his character with Han gone but I guess we'll see.
half a moon
Banned
Copilot
BlastProcessing
Member
I dunno about you, but all of the most dangerous people I have ever run into were punk ass dudes with daddy issues. To me he seemed dangerous in a way that no other Star Wars villain has been.
He's a personification of the idea that fear and weakness are the expressway to the dark side.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Thanks I thought I missed something, So they could be like The Jedi Order but for the dark side, cool.
Heh I read this theory too, and apparently an actor credited as a Knight of Ren might be who was killed. I can buy that the guy in the hat was aiming something at someone, on my second viewing it didn't seem that way, but the screenshots also reveal he isn't masked which the Knights of Ren all are. Primarily I don't think he's a KOR simply because Kylo is seen standing with the other Knights of Ren immediately after killing our bowl-hatted friend. Why would they just watch Kylo cut down one of their own? Are they in on Kylo's plans too and if so, what happened to them? If that person was, it becomes a little too convoluted rather than Kylo was simply off'ing some other dudes.
Furthermore, I don't think those other Knights are necessarily former Jedi trainees that helped overthrow Luke's new Jedi Order. Perhaps they assisted but considering their arms nothing suggests they're also force-capable.
- Status