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[LaserBuddha]

Rey goes from a scavenger to doing all the amazing things she's never done before. Jason Bourne was a trained killer from the moment we see him. Your comparison would be Jason Bourne is some car mechanic who then proceeds to outmatch and kill all the highly trained assassins sent after him. I like Rey a lot, she might be my favourite character, I wanted more of her and the new lot and less of the old, but the complaints have nothing to do with her being a female. Leia could handle herself and you don't see the same criticisms aimed her way.

Rey is trained in melee combat and piloting, and goes on to show abilities in melee combat and piloting. Her confrontation with the thieves on Jakku showed more skill and grace than anything in the fight with Ren, and shoved the fact right in your face that she could fight. Don't know how that was missed.

When handed a blaster, the most common weapon in the galaxy, she is completely inept because she has never used one.

I don't understand why people are injecting plot holes where they don't exist. Except well, you know, because suddenly a female is trying to get away with what male heroes in thousands of other movies including Star Wars do.

 

[show me your skeleton]

why'd it take 30 odd years for han solo to remark about chewie's bowcaster?

 

[sphagnum]

Definitely not his hand, I was on the lookout for it during my second viewing.

 

[jett]

No, just the saber. And she also Squall'd him.

Naw man, she Anakin'd him.

Ren is probably writing a thank you letter as we speak.

 

[Joqu]

I'm not as big of a Star Wars fan as I'm sure some of you guys are but I just came back from watching it and I really really liked it. The person I watched it with was completely new to Star Wars and they loved it too so I think the movie did a great job in that regard, I was a bit worried it wouldn't work for a newcomer.

Totally called Han Solo dying in this, I did so before watching the movie already. No way Ford would've appeared so energetic in his press appearances otherwise.

And I really loved Supreme Leader Snoke's design. I've seen some mention of people disliking him but I thought he had some great presence. Really intimidating to me to the point that I felt shivers down my spine. Had way more of an effect on me than Vader or Palpatine ever had in any of the other movies.

My only two complaints would be that I felt like things were a bit too much on the rushed side, at times I wanted more breathing room behind the action scenes, and the other being the whole political aspect, as in the complete lack of one. I did not understand the relation between the resistance, the republic and the first order and I feel like that's on the movie because I really tried to figure it out while watching. But reading through the thread those seem to be pretty common complaints, especially the latter.

So basically I have complaints that could probably be alleviated by an extended cut. A special edition if you will. Huh.

I'm not sure how much of a chance that has of happening though.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm not suggesting the scene is too subtle as it is. I'm suggesting it's not cool enough.

Welp, that's where a difference in opinion comes in. I thought it was perfect and even poignant and a voice over may have been cheesy to me in that moment.

 

[MrBadger]

Also, I don't think Rey is a "mary sue". The only thing she does that was off to me was managing to grab the light saber from Ren. After that, she fumbled about and only beat him because he'd been shot by Chewie and injured by Finn

Captain Phasma's role in the movie was really really small relative to her visibility in the merchandising.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Pretty sure it was his hand.

Spoiler

I hope it was his hand.

 

[EatChildren]

Wookie rage is a thing of beauty.

No fucks given. Everything dies.

 

[MrHoot]

The one thing I struggle with this movie is Rey's sudden abilities with the force, and it just occured to me how they might have been able to explain it slightly better. What if, when Rey touches Luke's lightsaber for the first time, the flashback happens, then when it's over, they cut to Rey still holding the lightsaber, but levitating dozens of Maz's antiquities around her, then she suddenly realizes she's doing it, and they all drop to the floor? Then Maz is standing at the doorway, having witnessed it. Such a scene could have indicated that Rey suddenly unleashed something inside her when she experienced the flashback, which was hinted at, but was not obvious. Maybe it would be overkill, but I would've liked it.

Honestly that's the thing I have the least problems with. I mean Luke spent maybe one week training in Empire. He still got his shit kicked in afterwards of course but the force in the OT was always this kind of non-linear miracle magic, mostly as a manifestation of the inner self through power. Which is why her opposition to Ren, who was "more trained" yet still got beaten still made sense to me as Ren is so obviously unstable and both are probably on par when it comes to personal experiences and traumas and whatnot, but Rey having the advantage because Ren is wounded at the time and conflicted.

Plus the title itself kinda hints to this whole principle, force awakens. So yeah, out of all her sudden surge of skills, force makes the most sense. For me it was the piloting really. But overall Rey's character is more of a nitpick for me my biggest gripes are the death star and the name of the resistance being "The resistance"

 

[PBalfredo]

The anger of the people arguing against the Mary Sue thing is really weird. Is it really so unimaginable that a PG-13 kids-friendly fantasy romp didn't have the most nuanced/believable writing ever? Are you sure it's sexist to complain about flimsy female characters and not feminist? Why, exactly, are you so mad?

It comes from the stark refusal to acknowledge that female characters get the extra scrutiny and dismissive labels that male heros don't. For example:

This premise is bunk. Lots of people think Captain America and James Bond are over-powerful boring clowns. Most recently, in the Spectre thread bunches of people rolled eyes at Bond, especially his #360noscope accuracy in Blofeld's base.

Millions of people straight up don't care about Marvel heroes because they're one-dimensional power fantasies. If you aren't seeing those criticisms maybe it's because those people have wrote those movies off years ago.

When Captain America is overpowered, it's fine, he's just a superhero, that's how they are.

When 007 is overpowered, it's fine, he's just an action star, that's how they are.

When Rey is perceived to me overpowered, she's a Mary Sue.

 

[diaspora]

This is a Star Wars movie, it'll contain as much subtlety as Thor in a bar.

 

[VistraNorrez]

I really don't wany her parents to be any of the established characters. Not Luke, not Obi-Wan, nobody. Just people who left her on the hellhole that is Jakku

I don't think they would stress her mysterious background so much and have he parents be nobodies. I'm not saying she has to be a Skywalker, but knowing this series it seems increasingly likely. If they come up with a better idea I'd be all for it.

 

[LionPride]

Wookie rage is a thing of beauty.

No fucks given. Everything dies.

Chewbacca went HAM out there after Han died. It was beautiful

 

[WadiumArcadium]

why'd it take 30 odd years for han solo to remark about chewie's bowcaster?

Maybe it got an upgrade recently.

 

[brandonh83]

This is a Star Wars movie, it'll contain as much subtlety as Thor in a bar.

A lot of things can be on the nose. There can also be more subtle decisions in moments such as that. Sorry I'm not driving on a one way street with this.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

a voice over may have been cheesy to me in that moment.

Was it cheesy when a disembodied voice started talking to Luke here?

 

[vasametropolis]

Only thing I didn't like was Death Star 3.0. It was very de-emphasized in the plot though to the point it almost didn't matter, which is a plus. Still makes me wonder why they bothered, but I basically loved everything else.

 

[igordennis]

Chewbacca went HAM out there after Han died. It was beautiful

Seriously, not a single shot missed lol.

 

[Edvardelis]

I saw it yesterday and loved it. I know a lot of people complain about all the coincidences, like having the falcon on Jakku, and as soon as it enters the space Solo and Chewie are the ones to capture it... It reminded me of a certain moment in JJ's Star Trek, but well, it was all for the fun, and the movie was fun. Great action scenes and x-wing vs tie battles, melee fights were fantastic and overall liked all the actions, I think they nailed the cast of Rey and Kylo.

They did a good job with Kylo and showing his difficulties with the dark side, but I think the actor was a bit too old. I could easily see an 18 year old behaving like that, but he looked far closer to 30 than 18.

Also, with Rey, I think the Jakka escape would have gone better had Poe stuck around to be the pilot so she wasn't shown as being so capable at so many things at the same time.

why'd it take 30 odd years for han solo to remark about chewie's bowcaster?

Yeah, it would have been much better had Finn been the one doing that. Han should have known, and with Finn doing it they could show that, yes, he was actually a good shot.

 

[Robot Pants]

The audience only cares about bad things happening to characters when they actually know who the fuck they are. Biggs and "Luke's co-pilot" have little screentime, therefore their deaths aren't overegged and the audience isn't bored.

Not saying you don't know that, just establishing that this isn't even weird, it's a filmmaking necessity for a popcorn film

The alternate of this is True Detective season 2 where a character no one knows or remembers dies, and they spend the rest of the show lamenting about him and bringing him up constantly. And everyone hates the show.

 

[MMarston]

Naw man, she Anakin'd him.
Ren is probably writing a thank you letter as we speak.

I think we all know what else he does with the Vader helm.

Spoiler

yaddle.jpg

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Huh, if it wasn't his hand, then 1/ that's some great coincidence that Rey managed to hit only the handle just between Ren's two hands, and 2/ I hope Ren rebuilds the same saber in the sequel instead of having a new crazy lightsaber design.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I liked it and I have not seen the past movies from beginning to end. I am really interested in seeing where Ren's character goes from here. I like his voice, his use of the force, etc...

I just didn't like how the fight with Ren vs Finn/Rey was handled. I have been reading some posts on this matter and it isn't about the state Ren was in. It was how Finn and Rey were able to do what they did.

 

[sphagnum]

I wonder if the deleted scenes will be considered canon or not. The prequel deleted scenes that don't contradict anything are considered canon in the Legends universe, but this will be the first time the LSG has had to make a ruling on this issue.

Like, does Unkar Plutt actually show up on Takodana and get his arm pulled out of his socket by Chewie? This is a life or death issue that I must know.

 

[kurahador]

why'd it take 30 odd years for han solo to remark about chewie's bowcaster?

Shitty attempt at humor and Han Solo acting unusual aka marked for death.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Phasma is so coming back as a quasi-bounty hunter, unless they are dumb enough to have her re-integrated in the Order. If they do the later, Finn will pull on the "you're a traitor too, join us!".

 

[Grover Cleveland]

I don't think they would stress her mysterious background so much and have he parents be nobodies. I'm not saying she has to be a Skywalker, but knowing this series it seems increasingly likely. If they come up with a better idea I'd be all for it.

Yep.

There's no reason to go to such pains in this movie to keep her parents a secret unless they have some sort of significance to the viewer.

 

[brandonh83]

Was it cheesy when a disembodied voice started talking to Luke here?

Kenobi was dead and directly communicating with him there. Was Maz dead or aware of that precise moment happening between Rey and Kylo? I'm not saying it wouldn't have worked. I'm saying I didn't personally need it and I'm not sure that it would have made the scene "cooler."

 

[LionPride]

I don't think they would stress her mysterious background so much and have he parents be nobodies. I'm not saying she has to be a Skywalker, but knowing this series it seems increasingly likely. If they come up with a better idea I'd be all for it.

But what if that's it, they are stressing her parentage so much only for them to be...no one. Deadbeats who couldn't handle a child. Space crack addicts who sold their child for their next fix. I don't know, I just want something else besides her having a parent who we know. Would be more interesting to me personally

 

[GhaleonEB]

Disliking Maz should be forbidden.

Pretty much. She's great.

The entire Rey discussion is reminding me of Furiosa's blowback, only magnified. It's sad.

 

[injurai]

Wasn't Finn the one who felt the "disturbance in the force" when all those planets were destroyed? It's hard to tell because it seemed like they framed it that way, but other than that he has bares no self-awareness of the presence of the force.

 

[Jetman]

- How easy Leia and Chewie went over Han death

Speaking of this, a friend yesterday noticed this, but when Rey and the Falcon land on the Rebel Base after the big fight, Chewie walks right by Leia without hugging her or consoling her over Han's death? and then Rey hugs Leia.

A minor screw-up that I didn't notice, but kind of shitty.

 

[MMarston]

But what if that's it, they are stressing her parentage so much only for them to be...no one. Deadbeats who couldn't handle a child. Space crack addicts who sold their child for their next fix. I don't know, I just want something else besides her having a parent who we know. Would be more interesting to me personally

I'd actually really really REALLY prefer this.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

It comes from the stark refusal to acknowledge that female characters get the extra scrutiny and dismissive labels that male heros don't. For example:



When Captain America is overpowered, it's fine, he's just a superhero, that's how they are.

When 007 is overpowered, it's fine, he's just an action star, that's how they are.

When Rey is perceived to me overpowered, she's a Mary Sue.

So are we wrong with our criticism? Is it impossible to bring this up because she's a female character?

 

[MrBadger]

I liked it and I have not seen the past movies from beginning to end. I am really interested in seeing where Ren's character goes from here. I like his voice, his use of the force, etc...

I just didn't like how the fight with Ren vs Finn/Rey was handled. I have been reading some posts on this matter and it isn't about the state Ren was in. It was how Finn and Rey were able to do what they did.

Finn got a lucky shot in before having his ass handed to him and Rey only turned things around right at the end.

 

[blackdevil]

I really don't wany her parents to be any of the established characters. Not Luke, not Obi-Wan, nobody. Just people who left her on the hellhole that is Jakku

that wont happen. They dont make it a huge secret to reveal it in movie 8 or 9 to be noname parents. no way.

Disney wants the same effect that " Luke i am your father" had back in the 80s!

In Episode 7 we have " Kylo Ren is Hans and Leas Son"
in Episode 8 we probably get " Finn is Landos or Mace Windus son"
and in 9 we find out who Reys parents are.

J.J said if we find out their surname it would be a huge spoiler. We still dont know.

 

[CasualTR]

inb4everyoneturnsonthismovieinafewmonths

Im waiting for this.

Give it until the end of this new trilogy.

 

[Chezzymann]

Rey is trained in melee combat and piloting, and goes on to show abilities in melee combat and piloting. Her confrontation with the thieves on Jakku showed more skill and grace than anything in the fight with Ren, and shoved the fact right in your face that she could fight. Don't know how that was missed.

When handed a blaster, the most common weapon in the galaxy, she is completely inept because she has never used one.

I don't understand why people are injecting plot holes where they don't exist. Except well, you know, because suddenly a female is trying to get away with what male heroes in thousands of other movies including Star Wars do.

This. She was already greatly skilled in combat before the movie even started.

 

[JimmyRustler]

When Captain America is overpowered, it's fine, he's just a superhero, that's how they are.

When 007 is overpowered, it's fine, he's just an action star, that's how they are.

When Rey is perceived to me overpowered, she's a Mary Sue.

Way to debunk a legitimate argument... /s

I didn't see anyone blink an eye when Angelina Jolie went from housewife to special agent in "Salt". You know why? Because it was explained very well.

And again, Bond has a background. When you see him the first time he is already a special agent for years. Didn't see Captain America, so I cannot comment on that.

 

[BlastProcessing]

why'd it take 30 odd years for han solo to remark about chewie's bowcaster?

As someone else pointed out, the Bowcaster bit serves the purpose of showcasing how OP that weapon is. Which comes to play later when Ren takes a direct hit and:

1. Doesn't die which means he's stronk,

2. Is suitably wounded to handicap the final fight.

It's using comedy to hide a bit of plot setup.

Also I don't think it's too out of place to imply that Han and/or Chewie would be stubborn about the Bowcaster for 30 years.

 

[JB1981]

It bothered me that Finn is so upset that his fellow soldier is killed in front of him at the village then and just a few scenes later during his escape with Poe he is blasting away at Stormtroopers, killing dozens of them. Should have shown him shooting something else that would have allowed for their escape rather than murdering fellow brainwashed soldiers just like himself

 

[Frog-fu]

Rey is trained in melee combat and piloting, and goes on to show abilities in melee combat and piloting. Her confrontation with the thieves on Jakku showed more skill and grace than anything in the fight with Ren, and shoved the fact right in your face that she could fight. Don't know how that was missed.

When handed a blaster, the most common weapon in the galaxy, she is completely inept because she has never used one.

I don't understand why people are injecting plot holes where they don't exist. Except well, you know, because suddenly a female is trying to get away with what male heroes in thousands of other movies including Star Wars do.

Trained is a stretch and a half. Rey is tough and she can scrap... with random thugs on some dusty backwater planet.

Kylo Ren is a powerful and experienced user of the Dark Side of the force. He is the leader of the Knights of Ren, a group even Snoke seems to hold in high regard. He goes into battle with only a lightsaber and is untouchable. This guy by all accounts should be nigh untouchable to Rey but he gets clowned during the interrogation scene and rekt in their duel. It's shitty.

I think she only screwed up with the safety on the blaster. After that she took out a bunch of troopers. Not really a big deal to me since troopers get owned by everyone.

You can lob accusations all you want, but so long as you continue to ignore the actual arguments simply because you don't like them, you'll be arguing in bad faith.

 

[kurahador]

But what if that's it, they are stressing her parentage so much only for them to be...no one. Deadbeats who couldn't handle a child. Space crack addicts who sold their child for their next fix. I don't know, I just want something else besides her having a parent who we know. Would be more interesting to me personally

Having a nobody suddenly waking up with a huge force power would mean they have to explain something else, like the force itself.
That's a bigger undertaking than just having her comes from a Skywalker lineage.

Any again, Bond has a background. When you see him the first time he is already a special agent for years. Didn't see Captain America, so I cannot comment on that.

Captain America was a product of a successful super soldier serum.

That guy is just dragging the Mary Sue arguments through the mud really.

 

[antonz]

Only thing I didn't like was Death Star 3.0. It was very de-emphasized in the plot though to the point it almost didn't matter, which is a plus. Still makes me wonder why they bothered, but I basically loved everything else.

Starkiller base really only existed to wipe the slate clean on the Galaxy. Republic is dead. First Order may very well be the most powerful faction in the Galaxy again with the underdog resistance.

 

[Branduil]

Was it cheesy when a disembodied voice started talking to Luke here?

Maz isn't a dead force ghost, though.

 

[Gunmonkey36]

inb4everyoneturnsonthismovieinafewmonths

I wouldn't doubt it in the slightest.

 

[jstevenson]

Rey had a flight simulator computer inside her walker, which is how she learned to fly.

She also has a work bench there where she repaired the pieces of ship she found, as she got more food if they were working.

The combat aspect for her skills with melee combat isn't clear. Nor exactly is how she is so easily strong with the Force.

 

[LionPride]

that wont happen. They dont make it a huge secret to reveal it in movie 8 or 9 to be noname parents. no way.

Disney wants the same effect that " Luke i am your father" had back in the 80s!

In Episode 7 we have " Kylo Ren is Hans and Leas Son"
in Episode 8 we probably get " Finn is Landos or Mace Windus son"
and in 9 we find out who Reys parents are.

I really don't want Finn to be the son of the only other black charcters with names

 

[Frog-fu]

It bothered me that Finn is so upset that his fellow soldier is killed in front of him at the village then and just a few scenes later during his escape with Poe he is blasting away at Stormtroopers, killing dozens of them. Should have shown him shooting something else that would have allowed for their escape rather than murdering fellow brainwashed soldiers just like himself

I don't think he was so much upset with his fellow soldier dying as he was shellshocked due to being overwhelmed by his first brush with real combat.