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[TBiddy]

And i wrote which numbers in the same post above, didn't i?

ROTR first two months : 1 mil.
TR 2013 in 3-4 weeks : 3.4 mil.

I don't see a missunderstanding here.

You're comparing two months of sales vs. 3-4 weeks of sales. There's your misunderstanding. You don't have the number for two months of sales for TR2013, even though you claimed to.

Also, I know it's probably in bad taste, but I think this was pretty funny:

This thread is for shipped numbers too.

"Sold" is PR speak for shipped, it would have said "sold through" or "sold to consumer" if it was actually sell through numbers.

 

[GnawtyDog]

I'm calling this now, I'm predicting it won't be because a large majority of these will be from Europe.

We get UK numbers all the time. Last we checked UK numbers were on a downturn, not an uptick.

It has to be the U.S.

No matter, I am sure by December NPD the minds that do keep track of these numbers closely will come with a close estimation vs. what Greenberg claims. If a sizeable gap exist speculation will ensue.

 

[Conduit]

Yes, I wasn't calling you out over it. I just looked and found a eurogamer article stating that 2/3 of the sales were from outside the U.S., so it did do a lot better overseas.

That was the for TR 2013 and of course it sold well overseas cuz game was available on PS3 and PC and X360 did well in Europe. That's not the case with Xbone. Didn't ROTR sold more during launch month in US then in UK? ROTR was a much cheaper to buy in US and also Xbone's install base in US is....what, +60% of overall install base

 

[bombshell]

You're comparing two months of sales vs. 3-4 weeks of sales. There's your misunderstanding. You don't have the number for two months of sales for TR2013, even though you claimed to.

Also, I know it's probably in bad taste, but I think this was pretty funny:

"I know it's in bad taste, but let's do it anyway". What is your obsession with personal slights against me? This is far from the first time. I would like if you could attack the argument, not the person.

For the record, I was far from the only one in this thread who was convinced this was shipped numbers for RotTR. Who can really blame me/us for thinking that, when 1. We have NPD numbers. 2. We know that Xbox One hardware numbers for the US is in the ballpark of 60-65% of worldwide hardware figures and 3. MS have taught us this gen to expect massive spin in their PR statements.

We now know that RotTR has sold through 1M+, which means it's fortunately (I really liked TR2013, and look forward to playing RotTR on PS4) not the massive bomb many of us thought, but it's still a steep decline from the previous entry.

 

[LiquidSolid]

People on Neogaf don't seem to mind exclusive third party games on Sony machines.

And yet no-one minded Dead Rising 3 either. It's as if it depends on the reason they're exclusive, not just whether they're exclusive at all, but I guess that doesn't suit the narrative, so let's just conveniently ignore that and continue to make dumb comparisons.

 

[Berlin_Wall]

We get UK numbers all the time. Last we checked UK numbers were on a downturn, not an uptick.

It has to be the U.S.

Europe isn't UK only, even though microsoft thinks this way and treats (i.e.) the german market (and other markets in europe too) like it has no meaning ... and we have a lot of xbox ones here in germany (don't know the numbers, but half a million or more). and we like Tomb Raider. I played it. Makes +1 -)):

 

[leeh]

We get UK numbers all the time. Last we checked UK numbers were on a downturn, not an uptick.

It has to be the U.S.

No matter, I am sure by December NPD the minds that do keep track of these numbers closely will come with a close estimation vs. what Greenberg claims. If a sizeable gap exist speculation will ensue.

Ah, I should visit those threads more often, I always forget UK numbers weekly are the norm.

To the bold, I'm speaking in character here, but the only gap which isn't tracked is digital. If there is a large gap, it's the only place they can come from. Unless the Xbox suddenly became a success in mainland Europe over Christmas.

 

[SensibleSucker]

In and of itself, the 1m in 8 weeks is pretty good actually, as it seems the sales picked up once people bought it during the Xmas period.

Despite the fact that 2013 TR sold 3.4m in 3 weeks (05/03/13 - 26/03/13), the pro-rata reduction in sales due to limited platform release was something SE would have factored in, so that should not concern them too much.

What I worry about a little is that by August 2013 TR sold over 4m units, but that the producers of TR said they only reached profitability at the end of 2013.

It's therefore pretty safe to assume that, MS investment not withstanding and with rising development costs, ROTR would have to sell at least 4/5m copies to become profitable.

It's also safe to assume that Sony sales won't be as high as last time. A small % will boycott the game because of the exclusivity deal, whilst others will simply have moved on by the time the game is released. That's assuming it'll come to both gens of Sony's machines (which I think it will).

All that suggests that the only way SE will make profitability is if there's significant take up of the game on other platforms. I hope so, as it's great. Alternatively, the investment/moneyhat (depending on your point of view) will need to have been significantly higher than the $10m I've seen knocking about. To me, $10m seems absurdly low so I'd think it would have been more.



Lot;s of assumptions in the above, but just my ponderings/concerns.

 

[soundscream]

That was the for TR 2013 and of course it sold well overseas cuz game was available on PS3 and PC and X360 did well in Europe. That's not the case with Xbone. Didn't ROTR sold more during launch month in US then in UK? ROTR was a much cheaper to buy in US and also Xbone's install base in US is....what, +60% of overall install base

Of course its for TR 2013 I asked about it doing better overseas because I looked at the March & April 2013 NPDs. I didn't even mention Rise of the Tomb Raider in my question.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Europe isn't UK only, even though microsoft thinks this way and treats (i.e.) the german market (and other markets in europe too) like it has no meaning ... and we have a lot of xbox ones here in germany (don't know the numbers, but half a million or more). and we like Tomb Raider. I played it. Makes +1 -)):

Not to sound like MS, but the numbers are not significant. On the aggregate and in the long run - yes. I haven't kept up on PAL charts, meaning French, and German numbers. They're usually so lopsided with PS software I don't bother. I don't think in the case of ROTR it's different.

 

[Steroyd]

I wasn't asked to name a third party exclusive.

Heh yes I did, I cut off people using SFV as a false equivalency because as you've demonstrated the best Capcom can muster on their own is a budget Resident Evil title.

 

[TBiddy]

"I know it's in bad taste, but let's do it anyway". What is your obsession with personal slights against me? This is far from the first time. I would like if you could attack the argument, not the person.

For the record, I was far from the only one in this thread who was convinced this was shipped numbers for RotTR. Who can really blame me/us for thinking that, when 1. We have NPD numbers. 2. We know that Xbox One hardware numbers for the US is in the ballpark of 60-65% of worldwide hardware figures and 3. MS have taught us this gen to expect massive spin in their PR statements.

We now know that RotTR has sold through 1M+, which means it's fortunately (I really liked TR2013, and look forward to playing RotTR on PS4) not the massive bomb many of us thought, but it's still a steep decline from the previous entry.

I have no obsession with you. You have just popped up a few times the last couple of days with some less than fortunate remarks. You can't really blame that on me, though.

And no, I know there were several persons in this thread that were convinced that it was shipped, not sold. I don't see how that makes it better. You were stating your opinion about the numbers as stone cold facts, and that's never a good idea. It's just funny and that's it. There's no vendatta, no obsession and no hard feelings. I don't even know you.

 

[Conduit]

And no, I know there were several persons in this thread that were convinced that it was shipped, not sold.

Cuz literally "sold" in PR talk means shipped. It's easy now to act smart AFTER someone ( Tim Dog ) asked Greenberg are numbers are shipped or sold-trough cuz there is some missundestanding in official link in OP.

You're comparing two months of sales vs. 3-4 weeks of sales. There's your misunderstanding. You don't have the number for two months of sales for TR2013, even though you claimed to.

Wait, what? Huh? I also could write something like this :

ROTR sales in first two months are +1 million
TR 2013 sales in first two months ( precisely 3-4 weeks ) are +3.4 million.

Fair enough? I don't see something wrong here. Can't believe you literally realized sales like that.

 

[leeh]

Cuz literally "sold" in PR talk means shipped. It's easy now to act smart AFTER someone ( Tim Dog ) asked Greenberg are numbers are shipped or sold-trough cuz there is some missundestanding in link in OP.

Everyone keeps saying this, yet not one single person has linked to a statement as an example.

 

[Cyborg]

For Gears that's quite solid.

I'm not sure what modern expectations are like for Forza.

For the others, that's not much information given Tomb Raider 2013 shipped 3.4 million during its debut and Halo normally does 3+ million in its first month NPD alone.

I agree.
Seems a bit low for TR and Halo.

 

[TBiddy]

Cuz literally "sold" in PR talk means shipped. It's easy now to act smart AFTER someone ( Tim Dog ) asked Greenberg are numbers are shipped or sold-trough cuz there is some missundestanding in official link in OP.

Does it? Who has defined that?

Wait, what? Huh? I also could write something like this :

ROTR sales in first two months are +1 million
TR 2013 sales in first two months ( precisely 3-4 weeks ) are +3.4 million.

Fair enough? I don't see something wrong here. Can't believe you literally realized sales like that.

Well, you did claim you had the sales numbers for the two months... but you're right. It's nitpicking.

 

[bombshell]

I have no obsession with you. You have just popped up a few times the last couple of days with some less than fortunate remarks. You can't really blame that on me, though.

And no, I know there were several persons in this thread that were convinced that it was shipped, not sold. I don't see how that makes it better. You were stating your opinion about the numbers as stone cold facts, and that's never a good idea. It's just funny and that's it. There's no vendatta, no obsession and no hard feelings. I don't even know you.

I was not only talking about you going straight for the personal attack against me yesterday, it's happened several times in the past. Here we are again today, with you deciding to highlight just my posts among all the posters who said the same as me. Please stop.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

This thread man, this thread . . . . .

 

[RowdyReverb]

I agree.
Seems a bit low for TR and Halo.

Technically, Halo could have sold 10 million and still be included among these games. Unless I'm misunderstanding the phrase "over 1 million"

 

[TBiddy]

I was not only talking about you going straight for the personal attack against me yesterday, it's happened several times in the past. Here we are again today, with you deciding to highlight just my posts among all the posters who said the same as me. Please stop.

I'm not sure which personal attacks you are referring to.. and who you are, to be frank. If you wish to enlighten me, please send me a PM.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Heh yes I did, I cut off people using SFV as a false equivalency because as you've demonstrated the best Capcom can muster on their own is a budget Resident Evil title.

One might argue that you're the one guilty of false equivalence.

There are no third party exclusives without platform funding is not the same as "Capcom are incapable of developing games for a single platform independently."

It would be illogical for Capcom to independently develop for one platform, after all. Why would they exclude sales unless a company was paying them to do so?

 

[soundscream]

Hmmmm, digging through the April 2013 NPD thread it seems that the 3.4 Tomb Raider number was shipped units not sold through to consumers. That makes a hell of alot more sense, because I could not see it selling 2.6 million in 3-4 weeks outside of America.

 

[evilr]

No chance Tomb Raider has sold 1 million copies on Xbox, PR at full force again. I'd put it at around 400-500k TOPS.

Must be shipped figures, seeing as we haven't had an actual sales figure from Microsoft for quite some time.

It's good compared to the doom and gloom numbers most people here expected.

It is Doom and Gloom for Tomb Raider. It's the biggest exclusive mistake of the generation and might even kill the franchise. It's so bad that I'm surprised Greenberg was able to keep his job. Why do you think PC version was announced so quickly?

 

[Conduit]

Hmmmm, digging through the April 2013 NPD thread it seems that the 3.4 Tomb Raider number was shipped units not sold through to consumers. That makes a hell of alot more sense, because I could not see it selling 2.6 million in 3-4 weeks outside of America.

Noooo! It can't be. I read "sold" here : http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...3-4-million-copies-failed-to-hit-expectations

I must ask Greenberg is it shipped or sold-trough.

 

[sam777]

No chance Tomb Raider has sold 1 million copies on Xbox, PR at full force again. I'd put it at around 400-500k TOPS.

Must be shipped figures, seeing as we haven't had an actual sales figure from Microsoft for quite some time.

It has been confirmed these are not shipped figures.

 

[Caayn]

Edit: Oh man this thread keeps on giving and giving.

No chance Tomb Raider has sold 1 million copies on Xbox, PR at full force again. I'd put it at around 400-500k TOPS.

Must be shipped figures, seeing as we haven't had an actual sales figure from Microsoft for quite some time.

Get ready to be disappointed.

 

[Markoman]

Those are indeed good numbers, but the PR still 'feels' kinda off ...or let me rephrase it: feels like the typical MS PR BS.
Saying 'Halo5, TR, Forza...' sold over one million is kind of a confirmation that Halo 5 did not meet expectations. Otherwise they would go out and say something along the lines 'Our flag-ship title Halo 5 has sold ....'

 

[soundscream]

Noooo! It can't be. I read "sold" here : http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...3-4-million-copies-failed-to-hit-expectations

I must ask Greenberg is it shipped or sold-trough.

Post #8 in this very thread actually

For Gears that's quite solid.

I'm not sure what modern expectations are like for Forza.

For the others, that's not much information given Tomb Raider 2013 shipped 3.4 million during its debut and Halo normally does 3+ million in its first month NPD alone.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

No chance Tomb Raider has sold 1 million copies on Xbox, PR at full force again. I'd put it at around 400-500k TOPS.

Must be shipped figures, seeing as we haven't had an actual sales figure from Microsoft for quite some time.



It is Doom and Gloom for Tomb Raider. It's the biggest exclusive mistake of the generation and might even kill the franchise. It's so bad that I'm surprised Greenberg was able to keep his job. Why do you think PC version was announced so quickly?

 

[EvB]

Cuz literally "sold" in PR talk means shipped. It's easy now to act smart AFTER someone ( Tim Dog ) asked Greenberg are numbers are shipped or sold-trough cuz there is some missundestanding in official link in OP.

Sold could mean either
Microsoft has SOLD 1million copies
or 1 million consumers have purchased tomb Raider.

Either way, Microsoft has the revenue from 1million+ copies of Tomb Raider in their pocket.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Those are indeed good numbers, but the PR still 'feels' kinda off ...or let me rephrase it: feels like the typical MS PR BS.
Saying 'Halo5, TR, Forza...' sold over one million is kind of a confirmation that Halo 5 did not meet expectations. Otherwise they would go out and say something along the lines 'Our flag-ship title Halo 5 has sold ....'

The intended message of the piece isn't "we have a great-selling exclusive", it's "all our exclusives sell well"

 

[leeh]

No chance Tomb Raider has sold 1 million copies on Xbox, PR at full force again. I'd put it at around 400-500k TOPS.

Must be shipped figures, seeing as we haven't had an actual sales figure from Microsoft for quite some time.



It is Doom and Gloom for Tomb Raider. It's the biggest exclusive mistake of the generation and might even kill the franchise. It's so bad that I'm surprised Greenberg was able to keep his job. Why do you think PC version was announced so quickly?

How can you even think this when it's been confirmed?

 

[EvB]

Those are indeed good numbers, but the PR still 'feels' kinda off ...or let me rephrase it: feels like the typical MS PR BS.
Saying 'Halo5, TR, Forza...' sold over one million is kind of a confirmation that Halo 5 did not meet expectations. Otherwise they would go out and say something along the lines 'Our flag-ship title Halo 5 has sold ....'

They have already stated that Halo had takings of $400million in it's first week of sale, to have sold 1 Million copies that would mean that everyone paid $400 for it.

Unless they sold a lot in Brazil and Argentina...

 

[evilr]

Sold could mean either
Microsoft has SOLD 1million copies
or 1 million consumers have purchased tomb Raider.

Either way, Microsoft has the revenue from 1million+ copies of Tomb Raider in their pocket.

Great, that might cover actress fees. What are people suggesting, that Tomb Raider and Xbox exclusivity was a great partnership and the next game should have a deal too?

This PR got some people...

 

[TBiddy]

How can you even think this when it's been confirmed?

Considering the posting history, it's not exactly surprising, is it?

 

[Markoman]

The intended message of the piece isn't "we have a great-selling exclusive", it's "all our exclusives sell well"

But what's the point? Nintendo and Sony exclusives sell over 1 million on a regular basis and 1 million isn't like the magic number for success.

If i told you like one year ago that Halo 5 won't be doing far better numbers than Splatoon, people would have laughed their asses off.

 

[thekiddfran]

Anyone else find it strange that a game that didnt even chart in NPD top 20 and sold 43k in the UK at launch has a sell through to customers of 1million copies after a month? (According to Microsoft)

 

[evilr]

Anyone else find it strange that a game that didnt even chart in NPD top 20 and sold 43k in the UK at launch has a sell through to customers of 1million copies after a month? (According to Microsoft)

It didn't. No way near. Why are you falling for Greenberg PR bullshit? Man, PR truly pisses me off, it completely spins the circumstances. Microsoft can even buy a million copies for their own stores and not sell them to get that figure.

Let me tell you what really happened with Tomb Raider in actual terms: IT BOMBED. HARD.

 

[foxbeldin]

Anyone else find it strange that a game that didnt even chart in NPD top 20 and sold 43k in the UK at launch has a sell through to customers of 1million copies after a month? (According to Microsoft)

Xmas, great word of mouth and $40. Am I the only one not surprised?

It didn't. No way near. Why are you falling for Greenberg PR bullshit? Man, PR truly pisses me off, it completely spins the circumstances.

Let me tell you what happened with Tomb Raider in actual terms: IT BOMBED. HARD.

Please provide us with the evidence that he blatantly lies about TR being well over 1M sold through.

 

[e-gamer]

https://mobile.twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/684140018797953025?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

So it appears that 1mi was only for December. Global sales also.

Well, good sales. And MS must be counting digital included.

 

[Steroyd]

One might argue that you're the one guilty of false equivalence.

There are no third party exclusives without platform funding is not the same as "Capcom are incapable of developing games for a single platform independently."

It would be illogical for Capcom to independently develop for one platform, after all. Why would they exclude sales unless a company was paying them to do so?

Because the person in charge of Street Fighter was struggling to get funds to make a new Street Fighter game we "may" have seen one in around 2018, but even that wasn't a garuntee.


And Resi Revelations 2 had a silly 70/30 split in PS4's favour in a PAL thread last year, I believe FF Type-O had a 80/20 split in PS4's favour to, there is a perfectly logical reason for Japaneese devs to skip a userbase that doesn't buy their games as shown by the slew of games coming exclusive to console debut on PS4 this year.

Aaaaanyway to get back on track, Capcom isn't even the sole publisher of Monster Hunter 4 and that makes stupid bank in Japan, Deep Dowm was revealed to the world 3 years ago now I'm convinced it's vapourware at this point, between Dead Rising 3 (another game that's exclusivity didn't cause an uproar) and SFV I have no confidence that Capcom can do anything other than budget titles and remake/sters without help.

 

[Markoman]

They have already stated that Halo had takings of $400million in it's first week of sale, to have sold 1 Million copies that would mean that everyone paid $400 for it.

Unless they sold a lot in Brazil and Argentina...

Yes, that statement has also been discussed to death. (Sell in/sell trough, hardware bundles, .....). There has to be a simple rational reason why MS is not giving out exact numbers.
The point is: if you're believing in MS PR, no one will change anything about it.
Those who can see the spin will always be suspicious.

 

[Family Fry]

Anyone else find it strange that a game that didnt even chart in NPD top 20 and sold 43k in the UK at launch has a sell through to customers of 1million copies after a month? (According to Microsoft)

If only there was some kind of gifting day in December that could drive sales.
Couple that with deep discounts throughout December, it could have made it to a million.

Also word of mouth too, it rated well and generally people who played it said it was a great game.

 

[evilr]

Yes, that statement has also been discussed to death. (Sell in/sell trough, hardware bundles, .....). There has to be a simple rational reason why MS is not giving out exact numbers.
The point is: if you're believing in MS PR, no one will change anything about it.
Those who can see the spin will always be suspicious.

You've raised the question that everyone should be asking. Why isn't Microsoft releasing exact sales figures? There is a simple reason.

Thank you.

 

[maximrace]

So now we have people saying again an official Microsoft rep is lying in an official statement? Lol, some people really can't stand it when Microsoft has some good news for once

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Nothing brings out trolls, shitposters and Debbie downers like a positive Xbox thread. Amazing to see so many jump through hoops to downplay every shred of this news.

 

[slavesnyder]

Hey, I found the spin!

Halo 5: Guardians, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Forza Motorsport 6 and Gears of War: Ultimate Edition – sold over 1 million units, (...)

He did not say "each" or "individually".
It's combined!

 

[thebloo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/684140018797953025?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

So it appears that 1mi was only for December. Global sales also.

Well, good sales. And MS must be counting digital included.

It doesn't seem to be only in December. He just said "big December", as in "it had a big December".

 

[Elandyll]

Anyone else find it strange that a game that didnt even chart in NPD top 20 and sold 43k in the UK at launch has a sell through to customers of 1million copies after a month? (According to Microsoft)

Afaik the number is probably WW, including 360& XB1, and after a price drop to $40, releasing for the 2 months of the year with the most sales overall by far.
It's not completely doomsday, but it's pretty bad. For comparison's sake, it's much worse than Infamous 2nd son (which did 1m in 9 days, for a less well critically received game) which was on 1 platform, in March, with a then smaller install base and is a much less known franchise.

This would tend to show 2 things imo:

- Tomb Raider as a franchise has recently been losing much power
- MS and SE really mishandled this title and its launch

 

[thekiddfran]

If only there was some kind of gifting day in December that could drive sales.
Couple that with deep discounts throughout December, it could have made it to a million.

Also word of mouth too, it rated well and generally people who played it said it was a great game.

Surely in Black Friday we would see such a surge in sales? Instead it bombed hard.

Yeah Xmas would definitely see a boost but not 600+ sales of a boost for the game that did nothing on Black Friday. Xbox One is nothing in europe so that can't be a reason either.

Congrats though if it is true because I want another Tomb Raider game