flaxknuckles
Member
And a Steam version of Quantum Break is pretty likely to crop up at some point since Alan Wake came out on Steam and GOG.
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Greenberg: Quantum Break is not coming to Steam
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
And a Steam version of Quantum Break is pretty likely to crop up at some point since Alan Wake came out on Steam and GOG.
stan423321
Member
No, but CEG substitutes step 4 with "use your game as you wish while it doesn't conflict with CEG".
Read again.
CecilRousso
Member
I'm lucky that I care very little for Microsofts own IP's, so I can't see their efforts with this effecting me that much. Quantum Break for me is a game I might want to test, but I have no genuine interest in.
And what other publisher could possibly be daft enough to make exclusive games for the Win10 stores? You either have your own store, like Origin or uPlay, or you would be foolish enough to dismiss the sales from having your game on Steam.
I can see more games coming to Win10 Store, alongside other versions, so that we get more options, but I'm strugglig to see a scenario where the Win10 store will be a more attractive option then those we already have now, for devs and publishers.
And what other publisher could possibly be daft enough to make exclusive games for the Win10 stores? You either have your own store, like Origin or uPlay, or you would be foolish enough to dismiss the sales from having your game on Steam.
I can see more games coming to Win10 Store, alongside other versions, so that we get more options, but I'm strugglig to see a scenario where the Win10 store will be a more attractive option then those we already have now, for devs and publishers.
kenjigreat
Banned
If you want your voices heard I'm sure there is some change.org petition to bring it to steam. Although I'm pretty sure at least someone at Microsoft saw this coming.
What about the rest of my post? Some of the things you listed as impossible seem very possible to me as long as they are implemented by the game dev as not as a hack.
The things that I see becoming impossible is software that used dll injection, hooks and other methods that are usually used by keyloggers and malware as well.
Why would integrating mumble become impossible? No sockets or pipe support in this new format? I highly doubt it. I don't see a reason why a game won't be able to implement mumble or other VoiP support.
The steam controller's software is a mess. For example, just having the receiver plugged in, it messed up my Fallout's 4 gamepad and keyboard support (no input worked until i disconnected the receiver). So i wouldn't list it as a drawback until it's working properly in normal circumstances as well.
No SLI support? How come? Better SLI support is one of DX12's selling points. And their apps won't be able to support that DX12 feature?
The other parts of the list do seem impossible, since they are probably implemented by injecting code into a running app.
It also looks like that due to these restrictions it will be a lot harder to make keyloggers, malware and cheating software for those apps. So overall it seems to me that apps will become more secure, which is pointless for gaming, but can be important in other applications.
I've been seeing people saying that you can't access the game files in W10 apps. They're hidden and tougher to get into. Although, it's easy.
Un-hide hidden folders in your "Program Files" folder.
Windows Apps location:
C:/Program Files/WindowsApps/
Go to Properties > Security > Advanced > Change Owner > Change the owner to your admin account > Apply to all subfolders and files
Then when you click the folder, it'll prompt you that you need permissions, and when you click continue, it'll prompt you access to all the apps. For example, mine:
Un-hide hidden folders in your "Program Files" folder.
Windows Apps location:
C:/Program Files/WindowsApps/
Go to Properties > Security > Advanced > Change Owner > Change the owner to your admin account > Apply to all subfolders and files
Then when you click the folder, it'll prompt you that you need permissions, and when you click continue, it'll prompt you access to all the apps. For example, mine:
Does this solve any limitations discussed, if you can access the files?
No, you can't even launch the exe manually.
GHG
Member
Having visibility of the folders and files changes nothing. And yes, it's been mentioned in this thread before.
anothertech
Member
Welp. Looks like another 'add to steam library' game.
Yep, it does. I have to download third-party software to buy a game and download it instead of just using a website/store? That is already DRM. Or can I download it anywhere, without using that software? I think not.
Also, even "DRM-free" games are restricted. In Europa Universalis IV, for example, you can't use Ironman Mode without using the client and thus being online.
kenjigreat
Banned
Maybe I'm not understanding your post but if your are talking about adding as a non steam game to steam, that's not even possible.
arhra
Member
As far as the Steam controller goes, I thought that was supposed to emulate mouse/keyboard (or Xinput gamepad) for games that don't support it directly.
Why wouldn't that work with Windows Store games? I'm pretty sure they support mouse/keyboard input, after all.
Ah, just trying to help. That's a shame. Not sure why they don't just use the store as a deliver of normal applications rather than packaging them like this.
Because they want to control the software you run on your PC, UWA are signed and run in a sandbox.
Try to read just one or two pages of this thread. Sheesh! Still getting these stupid posts this far in is infuriating.
So you don't actually know what DRM is, gotcha.
Again, this is a restriction imposed by the developers, not Steam.
You can't edit them. It will mess up the app or even the store.
Because those aren't Win32/PE executable files. They just gave them the same extension as regular exe's. You can't execute Java jar files without a Java VM either.
The difference here is about editing. You can edit jar files and run the modified version in the java VM, but you won't be able to do the same with the windows app VM.
You can only run the version that was signed by the person who wrote the code. You can also sign your own app yourself, you don't need MS for that.
In short, the restriction is that you can't modify other people's code.
GHG
Member
Nope, it runs in a sandbox which blocks out any third party applications so Steam can't interface with it in order to do this. In order to use the controller with applications/games not directly supported you need to launch them via steam as a non steam application.
If they do bring any of the Forza games to PC then things will get really interesting when it comes to wheel support. I'm actually chuckling at the thought of the shitstorm this will cause.
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
Not surprised but still disappointed. There's a chance I will buy the PC version if it has a physical release but otherwise I'll go with the Xbone version.
VolticArchangel
Member
As of this month, over 7500 titles are available on the platform. How many of them let you do that? Do you really need two hands to count them? (this is a genuine question as I don't know so don't mind the sarcasm, just assuming most developers/publishers would choose a widely adopted distribution method). OTOH, the prima facie of GOG is to not have any form of DRM, whatsoever, forcing the developers w/o a choice. It's inherently built into both, their web store and their optional client, unlike ANY other storefront on ANY platform.
The Alan Wake IP is owned by Remedy.
motorised mallard
Member
Haven't read the last ~10 pages so it might have been asked already.
Are there any benefits for treating games/programs like phone apps?
I'm guessing that there isn't because this comes from the same guys that thought that what my desktop PC with huge monitor needed was an OS designed for small touch screens.
Are there any benefits for treating games/programs like phone apps?
I'm guessing that there isn't because this comes from the same guys that thought that what my desktop PC with huge monitor needed was an OS designed for small touch screens.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Microsoft didn't have their own store back then. If they want to make a dent they have to be strict as EA and only release on their store, otherwise they don't even have to start. The moment they put QB on Steam is when the perception of all releases will be 'it's coming to Steam, will buy then' and they can't have that.
As I wrote in the GFWL, I won't buy this even if the game was pretty much the only reason I wanted a One (with Halo games too).
I purchased a good amount of games and DLCs on GFWL, now I can't access them and XBox support refused to give me a refund or a compensation in some form, because "there are working on it".
Meanwhile I spent my money and I can't use the contents I purchased.
No way I'll do the same mistake twice, Microsoft is only interested in money, and if the new line for the company is taking rid of the "old burden", they'll do it in a blink of an eye, no matter if paying consumers will take the hit. They did it for the first XBox Marketplace, they did it with GFWL (at least until they'll "fix it"), they will do it again when manteining a service will cost them money they don't want to spend.
So no, thanks. It's not a fact of using another service, because I already use Steam, GOG (I have a huge library here), Origin and Uplay, it's the fact I have no trust in Microsoft for providing support after the initial, enthusiastic launch.
I purchased a good amount of games and DLCs on GFWL, now I can't access them and XBox support refused to give me a refund or a compensation in some form, because "there are working on it".
Meanwhile I spent my money and I can't use the contents I purchased.
No way I'll do the same mistake twice, Microsoft is only interested in money, and if the new line for the company is taking rid of the "old burden", they'll do it in a blink of an eye, no matter if paying consumers will take the hit. They did it for the first XBox Marketplace, they did it with GFWL (at least until they'll "fix it"), they will do it again when manteining a service will cost them money they don't want to spend.
So no, thanks. It's not a fact of using another service, because I already use Steam, GOG (I have a huge library here), Origin and Uplay, it's the fact I have no trust in Microsoft for providing support after the initial, enthusiastic launch.
Atraveller
Banned
For the consumer? None.
The controller works with every single game you throw at it that is made in the standard not-a-app-shitshow, so yes, it is Microsoft's fault. Valve didn't "lock down" the controller at all. They can't come up with magic drivers that games automagically support without using a overlay, and the controller emulates several different kinds of devices. You can't make it work natively like that.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Due to the fact that the Steam controller emulates various devices (mouse, keyboard, and pad), it basically needs to be able to overload certain functions when running programs. But because you can apparently only run Windows 10 Store apps indirectly, on top of no permission to access the application folder, it is not possible to do so. And if you read this thread, you'll see that the Steam Controller is just one of many other useful pieces of software that break because of this behavior.
Of course GOG has more DRM-free games than Steam. I wasn't arguing that -- I was merely arguing that a delivery mechanism, even an application is not DRM in itself.
For another delivery mechanism, you may need to jump through hoops to buy a physical CD, but if there's no CD check, does that CD-based game have DRM? I would say no.
And to answer your question, here's a (partial?) list of Steam games that don't require Steam to be running: http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games You'll need quite a few hands to count them.
Of course, only some portion of that list run as-is, and some others require additional steps. There are still enough "run as-is" games to take multiple hands, I think.Good thing that's not what people here are saying though, there's a whole lot more than merely being a different storefront. Read the thread.
stan423321
Member
You read again. There's a comma.
paperspace
Member
Has anyone even said something like that?
It's not what the majority of people are upset with.
CEG is optional. I was specifically referring to the games that don't use it.
wapplew
Member
Ease of use and security like phone app?
Atraveller
Banned
What ease of use? Normal programs are not secure for the customers?
Plenty of people have said that, maybe take your own advice in that regard? The other criticisms simply lack foresight and assuming that Microsoft do not make changes in the future where you can do modifications which require a local copy of the .exe.
Read above.
Wow. I didn't know it was that bad. I really hope they see the light before Scalebound comes out.
wapplew
Member
Isn't that what MS bet on? That phone app demographic who want hassle free experience and not caring about modification.
CecilRousso
Member
It's not about who runs the store, or what it's called. It's about what being sold through that store has for consequences for the product. Calling it petty to care about what you're actually spending money is a bit weird.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Aren't those people... using phones or tablets? I am not really sure the audience using PC's now have anything to gain from UWP apps.
On the news itself - I really like Remedy games but with this stuff I will definitely wait till the game is at a disposable price point (as UWP apps seem built to be disposable). I would still rather play it on a PC with these restrictions over a console but definitely not more then like 5-10 dollars.
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