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Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades

vcc

Member
seems like all of the big 3 are pivoting this way, though Sony is showing their hand the least likely because of the success of the PS4

The market leader tends to be conservative because they can afford to be and big changes are risky. The #2 or #3 will want to take risks hoping for upside. PS3 era Sony did change their business end strategies a few times. OGXB era MS took a lot of risks and many more with the 360 to get on top.

I don't think Sony want rolling upgrades as it just balloons the R&D costs. I don't think Nintendo want it either as their dabbling in upgrades to platforms have all fell flat.

Nintendo is going to take risks merging their mobile and console offering (allegedly) while Sony is aping a new trending thing other people have pioneered (PSVR).

It makes sense MS will make bigger risks. I personally don't believe it will pan out.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
- console gaming has NOT worked for so long [see the loss leading fiasco it's been ever til now]

- current console games look like CRAP compared to previous generations

- no not like chasing the rabbit, full forward/backward compatibility means everyone will have working games, just some people will have higher detail / fidelity versions of said games

- as Phil says himself, no different really than me having an iphone 6 and someone else still being stuck on a 5, one of us gets a snappier experience but we both can run all the same shit

It has worked it's just taken decades to make strides in development of hardware with low costs. This generation was the first where both were not losing shit tons of money. Sony actually was making a profit out the gate at 399 which I think was a first ever for them.

Your second line is complete and utter garbage. Don't preach your opinion likes is fucking gospel just because you prefer PC.
 

gamz

Member
What if the game runs at 42 fps on the Xbox 2.5? That's how things actually work on the PC side. There's no simple toggle switch that bounces frame rate between 30 and 60 fps easily.

What if it doesn't?

If it's not worth the upgrade nobody's going to buy it. Pretty simple.
 

vcc

Member
Of course it takes extra work, but not as much as developing a separate code base for every device.
You're convinced that UWAs is only sufficient for a 'web content import app or calculator' but you're wrong.

Rise of the Tomb Raider is a UWA.
Quantum Break is a UWA.

Are those low requirement, budget apps?

What I'm saying is cross platform is easy with unambitious projects.

Hard with anything that will stress the hardware.

Considering both have inexplicably high PC requirements; they did have some issues.
 
Wait, this could get really interesting!

Remember all the console wars threads 'game x runs 1080p on PS4, and 900p on XboxOne' with the obligatory PC elitists stepping by and putting the fighting console peasants back into place?

With different Xbox models on the market, will we finally see some sort of console-civil-war, where Xbox2.5 owners start shitting on Xbox2 owners? :D

Just for entertainment purposes, MS pls. do this.

Lmao, console civil war
 

Ushay

Member
What makes you think that the new hardware will be so much better than it will make a game running 30 fps on the Xbox Baseline, run at a steady 60 fps on the Xbox 2.5?

The way I see it, the more capable addon would basically render at higher settings, depending on what the developers allow for that 'tier' of hardware. Example, Halo 5 currently runs on dynamic resolution at 60 fps .. I would imagine a '1.5' would be able to play the at locked 1080 with various enhancements to image quality. Obviously that's total speculation on my part.

It's a welcome addition if I can play games like Witcher 3 and Batman is much higher fidelity.
 

jahasaja

Member
As an outsider it seems like Microsoft is trying as gracefully as they can exit the console business. Their troyan horse into the living room strategy failed and this is the end game. Microsoft as a company is probably not interested in the small profits of the industry as well as being in a three way race with Nintendo and Sony.

I might be wrong but their messaging have to be much clearer since every step they take seems to be a step away from consoles.
 

vcc

Member
The way I see it, the more capable addon would basically render at higher settings, depending on what the developers allow for that 'tier' of hardware. Example, Halo 5 currently runs on dynamic resolution at 60 fps .. I would imagine a '1.5' would be able to play the at locked 1080 with various enhancements to image quality. Obviously that's total speculation on my part.

It's a welcome addition if I can play games like Witcher 3 and Batman is much higher fidelity.

Both those have PC versions (though batman has it's publisher withdraw support).
 

EvB

Member
What I'm saying is cross platform is easy with unambitious projects.

Hard with anything that will stress the hardware.

Considering both have inexplicably high PC requirements; they did have some issues.

They've got 360 games running on the Xbox One, having Xbox one games running on a more powerful Xbox One with the same architecture would be a breeze by comparison
 

Synth

Member
What I'm saying is cross platform is easy with unambitious projects.

Hard with anything that will stress the hardware.

Considering both have inexplicably high PC requirements; they did have some issues.

RoTR doesn't have inexplicably high specs as a UWA. It's simply a demanding game because it looks better than basically everything. On the same PC configuration the game apparently runs better as a UWA than the Win32 version.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
- console gaming has NOT worked for so long [see the loss leading fiasco it's been ever til now]

- current console games look like CRAP compared to previous generations

- no not like chasing the rabbit, full forward/backward compatibility means everyone will have working games, just some people will have higher detail / fidelity versions of said games

- as Phil says himself, no different really than me having an iphone 6 and someone else still being stuck on a 5, one of us gets a snappier experience but we both can run all the same shit

Ummmm.....sir what are you talking about? Games have never looked better.
 
They've got 360 games running on the Xbox One, having Xbox one games running on a more powerful Xbox One with the same architecture would be a breeze by comparison
On the hardware side, sure.

On the software side, what's the incentive for a developer to push the hardware of the oldest SKU? It doesn't make sense and it won't happen, leading to the oldest SKU getting "okay" versions of games whereas other consoles continue to swing above their weight because they're fixed hardware.
 

Zedox

Member
His message is somewhat undermined by the fact many people who bought PC titles on GFWL "a generation ago" have in fact 'jumped forward' and now cant play them anymore.

To counter that point...those who bought digital Xbox 360 games (and disc based) are getting their games from a generation ago on their current and more powerful system. See how that works?

Disaster Nebraska said:
On the software side, what's the incentive for a developer to push the hardware of the oldest SKU? It doesn't make sense and it won't happen, leading to the oldest SKU getting "okay" versions of games whereas other consoles continue to swing above their weight because they're fixed hardware.

You mean developers are going to choose to not make a good experience for the ~20 million or so potential customers? LMFAO
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The market leader tends to be conservative because they can afford to be and big changes are risky. The #2 or #3 will want to take risks hoping for upside. PS3 era Sony did change their business end strategies a few times. OGXB era MS took a lot of risks and many more with the 360 to get on top.

I don't think Sony want rolling upgrades as it just balloons the R&D costs. I don't think Nintendo want it either as their dabbling in upgrades to platforms have all fell flat.

Nintendo is going to take risks merging their mobile and console offering (allegedly) while Sony is aping a new trending thing other people have pioneered (PSVR).

It makes sense MS will make bigger risks. I personally don't believe it will pan out.

Making PSVR is risky, so it's wrong to so they are being conservative. And what do you mean other people have pioneered VR? Sony has been making theirs right along with Valve and Oculus.
 

foamdino

Member
It is absolutely not the same.

It takes away the impetus for games to push Xbox One to its limits. It encourages lazy ports. It opens up the door for Microsoft to pull stuff like "30fps on consoles, 60fps on Windows PC" if they decide to further de-emphasize the Xbox console division.

It's a really sad state of affairs when Xbox loyalists equate "not on the competition's console" to being functionally equivalent to "the best place to play an exclusive." Really, really fucking sad, and I hope you don't believe that.

This. I don't think this is a good idea *at all*. It is effectively the death knell for xbox exclusives (and by extension one actual good reason to go and buy an xbox). So why are so many xbox fans happy with this?

If this goes through as a strategy - give me one reason as a Halo/Forza/Gears fan I should go and buy an Xbox "infinite upgrade edition" vs buying a pc and getting better cheaper access to other games as well as "exclusives" - it's a no brainer where the value proposition is - this is corporate suicide, the exclusives and friends lists from xbox live are the only thing keeping xbox as a brand relevant.

What happens when you take the exclusives away? Then you ask pc users to pay for online multiplayer? (hint - learn from history). You also release something with in-built obsolescence in much less time than the competition. On top of that the total cost of ownership of your product is massively higher than your main competition due to a constant upgrade treadmill...

Why are people cheering this on (except to see the impending train wreck)?

As a pc gamer I'm all for no exclusives as it's annoying to be locked out of various games that I may otherwise try - so "yay" that some games I may enjoy in the future may eventually come to the pc, but "boo" that they're wrapped in layers of drm/UWA bullshit that prevent me from playing it the way I want to.
 

Ushay

Member
Both those have PC versions (though batman has it's publisher withdraw support).

It would still be a closed platform, what does that have to do with PC gaming?

Is it an automatic assumption that everyone has an i7/980Ti tucked beside their console? If that is the case, the platform remains open to them for most games.


I don't think there will as much variation on these supposed addons as is being discussed, no where near. My guess is 1 or 2 higher spec models at the most per 4 years.
 
You mean developers are going to choose to not make a good experience for the ~20 million or so potential customers? LMFAO
You must be new to gaming. You don't recall inferior versions of PS3 and Wii games for multiplats? You don't recall the phoned-in version of cross-gen games for PS2 as that console continued to limp along?

I could go back further into gaming's history if you'd like.
 

Hawk269

Member
They've got 360 games running on the Xbox One, having Xbox one games running on a more powerful Xbox One with the same architecture would be a breeze by comparison

I agree. I don't think this is too far fetched. MS being able to market an upgraded console that plays 360 games, Xbox One games and Xbox One games in "enhanced modes" due to the better hardware.

I have not heard it mentioned, but who knows if the upgrades stop at the GPU/CPU/Memory level. Perhaps this upgraded console will have HDMI 2.0 ports, additional USB ports, 4k Blu Ray playback options. I know that would be a lot to ask for, but it could also be feasible, just to give more reason to the "upgrade".

I also agree with the person that made the comment about why is Phil talking about this now? I would think if MS is just "thinking about it" I doubt Phil would of told the press about doing this. It seems to me that the reason Phil said what he said was because this is actually going to happen and we may see it at E3. I mean why else bring this up at this time and then go silent/not show anything about it?
 

Piper Az

Member
My guess is that this is the beginning of the end of the Xbox consoles. If MS begins to release games like Halo to PC simultaneously, why bother making the console? Once X1 generation is done, I don't think MS has incentives to be in the console business...
 

MilkyJoe

Member
This. I don't think this is a good idea *at all*. It is effectively the death knell for xbox exclusives (and by extension one actual good reason to go and buy an xbox). So why are so many xbox fans happy with this?

If this goes through as a strategy - give me one reason as a Halo/Forza/Gears fan I should go and buy an Xbox "infinite upgrade edition" vs buying a pc and getting better cheaper access to other games as well as "exclusives" - it's a no brainer where the value proposition is - this is corporate suicide, the exclusives and friends lists from xbox live are the only thing keeping xbox as a brand relevant.

What happens when you take the exclusives away? Then you ask pc users to pay for online multiplayer? (hint - learn from history). You also release something with in-built obsolescence in much less time than the competition. On top of that the total cost of ownership of your product is massively higher than your main competition due to a constant upgrade treadmill...

Why are people cheering this on (except to see the impending train wreck)?

As a pc gamer I'm all for no exclusives as it's annoying to be locked out of various games that I may otherwise try - so "yay" that some games I may enjoy in the future may eventually come to the pc, but "boo" that they're wrapped in layers of drm/UWA bullshit that prevent me from playing it the way I want to.

You honestly can't think of of one reason why someone might but a console over a PC if the same game is available on both

Not one reason

One reason?

Extraordinary...
 

vcc

Member
Making PSVR is risky, so it's wrong to so they are being conservative. And what do you mean other people have pioneered VR? Sony has been making theirs right along with Valve and Oculus.

Oculus pushed into the area first. Sony has had something like it as a tech demo for a long time but a business plan didn't coalesce around it until Oculus got a lot of great press and buzz.
 

gamz

Member
My guess is that this is the beginning of the end of the Xbox consoles. If MS begins to release games like Halo to PC simultaneously, why bother making the console? Once X1 generation is done, I don't think MS has incentives to be in the console business...

You can't answer your own post? Think about a bit.
 

vcc

Member
It would still be a closed platform, what does that have to do with PC gaming?

Is it an automatic assumption that everyone has an i7/980Ti tucked beside their console? If that is the case, the platform remains open to them for most games.


I don't think there will as much variation on these supposed addons as is being discussed, no where near. My guess is 1 or 2 higher spec models at the most per 4 years.

Your statement was:

It's a welcome addition if I can play games like Witcher 3 and Batman is much higher fidelity.

I'm saying you can already.
 

LordRaptor

Member
To counter that point...those who bought digital Xbox 360 games (and disc based) are getting their games from a generation ago on their current and more powerful system. See how that works?

No.
I don't see how that 'works', and I don't see how that 'counters' the point that his statements are undermined by the deed that purchasers of digital content from Microsoft are now denied access to the content, even on the very same hardware they purchased that content for.
 

gamz

Member
No.
I don't see how that works, and I don't see how that 'counters' the point that his statements are undermined by the deed that purchasers of digital content from Microsoft are now denied access to the content, even on the very same hardware they purchased that content for.

Why are they denied on PS3 to PS4?
 

Trup1aya

Member
I'm not seeing the commitment to the console released in 2013. The smaller the original Xbone share of the Windows 10 ecosystem, the less of a priority it is for software developers, including Microsoft.


If you're playing online on Xbone against PC and Xbone 1.5 players with higher frame rates and resolutions (and keyboard/mouse) you're not feeling like you're winning.

The Xbox releases in 2013 plays the same games. They are still getting games for the foreseeable future. So how is it a lack of support? How does it represent a smaller share? Regarding people playing with varying frame rates and resolutions, that's been going on for decades on PC... It doesn't really bother anyone.

Regarding kb/m that doesn't matter for most genres. And the ones it does effect, you just segregate the players...
 

vcc

Member
RoTR doesn't have inexplicably high specs as a UWA. It's simply a demanding game because it looks better than basically everything. On the same PC configuration the game apparently runs better as a UWA than the Win32 version.

I can't seem to find any bench marks of the two versions.
 

Zedox

Member
You must be new to gaming. You don't recall inferior versions of PS3 and Wii games for multiplats? You don't recall the phoned-in version of cross-gen games for PS2 as that console continued to limp along?

I could go back further into gaming's history if you'd like.

New to gaming? Lol.

Rise of the Tomb Raider for Xbox 360 and Xbox One is a perfect example of someone holding onto their old system but the developer still making a good game for them. Granted the time difference between the two shows why the "power difference" is there. If there was 2 Xbox "upgraded models" between the launch of Xbox 360 and Xbox One, along the way, the game would be progressively perform and look better on those systems. There's still a difference in the sense that the architecture behind Xbox 360 and Xbox One. If they were the same, it would be make it easier for the developer.

What this basically does is that a user can choose to upgrade when they want but if they don't, they would still get the games (probably up to a certain point because nothing is forward compatible infinitely) just as people who are still on Xbox 360 and others are on Xbox One and the slow fade out of that console version goes away over a long period of "support".
 

cakely

Member
T
You mean developers are going to choose to not make a good experience for the ~20 million or so potential customers? LMFAO

Are you "Laughing your fucking ass off" because you're not familiar with cross-generation game development?

Generally, ports of new-generation games to older-generation consoles don't turn out very well. Generally. That is what we're talking about here if Microsoft releases a new Xbox with say, a faster GPU and more memory. The existing Xbox One will become an older-generation console. It doesn't matter how many of those consoles are still in use, look what happened to the Playstation 3 and the Xbox 360 when generation 8 started.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Why are they denied on PS3 to PS4?

Presumably because the PS3 and the PS4 have different hardware.
Why is that relevant to this? Like, at all?
Is a Sony spokesman saying how great it is that PS3 owners play Bc titles while simultaneously ignoring PS4 owners who have lost access to those titles?
 

foamdino

Member
You honestly can't think of of one reason why someone might but a console over a PC if the same game is available on both

Not one reason

One reason?

Extraordinary...

From the xbox side:
take away exclusives, ask me to pay for online multiplayer, ask me to upgrade on a steady cycle (the assumption is much more frequent than currently), provide worse control scheme (subjective, but personally I cannot aim for shit with a controller)

From the pc side:
give me 'exclusives', free multiplayer, other stores with more features, upgrade cycle is entrenched (and either a pro or con depending on who you ask), choice of control scheme &c

So yeah - I cannot think of a reason to buy an xbox given that I have a reasonable pc (despite it being 6 years old). On the other hand to get access to splatoon I *must* buy a wiiU. To get access to bloodborne I *must* buy a ps4. Exclusives do drive some sales, convenience of having a fixed platform and not worrying about compatibility also drives sales (oh yeah let's throw away that advantage of consoles also).

Why would a business do this? As I said it will be great for pc gamers that want access to formerly xbox exclusives, but I see no future in continued xbox hardware.
 

otakukidd

Member
- console gaming has NOT worked for so long [see the loss leading fiasco it's been ever til now]

- current console games look like CRAP compared to previous generations

- no not like chasing the rabbit, full forward/backward compatibility means everyone will have working games, just some people will have higher detail / fidelity versions of said games

- as Phil says himself, no different really than me having an iphone 6 and someone else still being stuck on a 5, one of us gets a snappier experience but we both can run all the same shit


But there are games that work on a iPhone 6 but not on a iPhone 4s. Also there are games that work on I phone 4s but not iPhone 6.
 

vcc

Member
Are you "Laughing your fucking ass off" because you're not familiar with cross-generation game development?

Generally, ports of new-generation games to older-generation consoles don't turn out very well. Generally. That is what we're talking about here if Microsoft releases a new Xbox with say, a faster GPU and more memory. The existing Xbox One will become an older-generation console. It doesn't matter how many of those consoles are still in use, look what happened to the Playstation 3 and the Xbox 360 when generation 8 started.

To be fair they were still supported until the market for it dried up and the devs were pushed on. I think the concern will be the opposite. There will be marginal upside to the improved versions which will discourage early adopters. Devs will still target the base until MS forcefully kicks them up; but they will have little leverage to do this if each tier doesn't sell amazingly well. Same as they lack leverage with the w10 store as the install base is small.
 
What makes you think that the new hardware will be so much better than it will make a game running 30 fps on the Xbox Baseline, run at a steady 60 fps on the Xbox 2.5?


14nm.

And it'll do whatever the developers ask of it. Anything beyond those things is pure speculation.
 

Synth

Member
I can't seem to find any bench marks of the two versions.

Which is why I said "apparently", as it's primarily been anecdotal observations from a handful of people that bought both. One of those is dark10x tho, so I don't consider the impressions to be throwaway.
 
But there are games that work on a iPhone 6 but not on a iPhone 4s. Also there are games that work on I phone 4s but not iPhone 6.

i mean if its a few year old console it'll be like making a switch to the next generation console anyways, it's like having those old school systems and begging for backwards compatibility except this time there wont be that problem...

if they do the 3 year cycle thing then its not to bad but if your console is like 6 years old its time to upgrade anyways.
 
New to gaming? Lol.

Rise of the Tomb Raider for Xbox 360 and Xbox One is a perfect example of someone holding onto their old system but the developer still making a good game for them. Granted the time difference between the two shows why the "power difference" is there. If there was 2 Xbox "upgraded models" between the launch of Xbox 360 and Xbox One, along the way, the game would be progressively perform and look better on those systems. There's still a difference in the sense that the architecture behind Xbox 360 and Xbox One. If they were the same, it would be make it easier for the developer.

What this basically does is that a user can choose to upgrade when they want but if they don't, they would still get the games (probably up to a certain point because nothing is forward compatible infinitely) just as people who are still on Xbox 360 and others are on Xbox One and the slow fade out of that console version goes away over a long period of "support".
You're describing cross-gen support like we already have.

This still doesn't answer the issue of the lesser hardware not being pushed to its limits. How does Rise of the Tomb Raider on 360 look in comparison to, say, MGS5? Or Halo 5? Or Gears 3? Does it hold up? I haven't seen it in-person, but the trailers don't look like anything special.

That's the point. The "older" SKU is never pushed to its limit. It is the reality of multiplatform (or cross-platform; the issue remains the same) development. We've seen this too many times to count with cross-platform games. What evidence do you have -- beyond Microsoft's PR -- that this will be any different? What safeguards or extra effort or extra developers will they have in place to make up for the very practical issue of cross-platform development?

You really want your "exclusives" riding the edge of an annual hardware update at the expense of the previous hardware SKU? While at the same time having to take PC development into account? Doesn't sound like a recipe for getting the highest quality possible.
 

EvB

Member
On the hardware side, sure.

On the software side, what's the incentive for a developer to push the hardware of the oldest SKU? It doesn't make sense and it won't happen, leading to the oldest SKU getting "okay" versions of games whereas other consoles continue to swing above their weight because they're fixed hardware.

There are a lot of metrics collected , the original SKU console is likely always going to be the most commonly owned model , so that is always going to be the target sku for developers, just as it is now during this fixed gen.

If you stop thinking purely about Xbox One gamers and the overall attitude of places like neogaf, Right now, 2/3rds of gamers are having to "suffer" being held back by the Xbox One, a change to the mixture hardware on the market means that actually fewer people overall will "suffer"because of it.
That's before even considering what the NX might be and how that might change the structure and considerations of multi format games.
I totally fail to see how an Xbox One that works better than what I have now is a bad thing.
 

gamz

Member
Presumably because the PS3 and the PS4 have different hardware.
Why is that relevant to this? Like, at all?
Is a Sony spokesman saying how great it is that PS3 owners play Bc titles while simultaneously ignoring PS4 owners who have lost access to those titles?

But it's possible to have. MS has done this for it's Xbox owners. I'm saying I now trust MS over Sony to do the same going forward if I buy my titles digitally.
 

Prosopon

Member
I would love to see Microsoft innovate more in the PC gaming space. If any company can challenge Valve's Steam, it's Microsoft.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
Are you "Laughing your fucking ass off" because you're not familiar with cross-generation game development?

Generally, ports of new-generation games to older-generation consoles don't turn out very well. Generally. That is what we're talking about here if Microsoft releases a new Xbox with say, a faster GPU and more memory. The existing Xbox One will become an older-generation console. It doesn't matter how many of those consoles are still in use, look what happened to the Playstation 3 and the Xbox 360 when generation 8 started.

Forza Horizon 2, Titanfall, Rise Of The Tomb Raider all turned out ok on 360?
 

Synth

Member
You're describing cross-gen support like we already have.

This still doesn't answer the issue of the lesser hardware not being pushed to its limits. How does Rise of the Tomb Raider on 360 look in comparison to, say, MGS5? Or Halo 5? Or Gears 3? Does it hold up? I haven't seen it in-person, but the trailers don't look like anything special.

The 360 port of RoTR is amazing basically. Definitely not a good example of cross-gen compromise. You should check out the DF article for it.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
This move definitely comes with the risk of games no longer being optimized for "that one box" and I'll explain below.


I'm not worried about that. At a basic level, I'm sure Microsoft will expect games to run on all hardware at an acceptable framerate and resolution until the hardware version is phased out.


I do not have a strong opinion on this topic. There's been back-and-forth discussion about the dangers of multiple SKUs and how the Windows API will make things all better etc etc etc but I don't necessarily feel strongly either way. I can see how the multiple SKUs would be bad as well as good for devs. I can see how customers would love it and how it would confuse them. Again, no strong opinion.

Rather, my concern is far more fundamental.

Previously, Xbox One was the tip of the spear for Microsoft's gaming division. Even with Windows integration looming on the horizon, it was still the tip of that spear. It was Microsoft's premium gaming device where developers made games exclusively for it, where the hardware was pushed to its limits, and where gamers were promised a premium (or, ahem, First Class) experience.

For starters, (for the most part) games are no longer being developed exclusively for the Xbox One console hardware. Let's not confuse the issue by trying to expand the definition of "platform". It is a simple fact. Microsoft is not going to make Xbox One console hardware exclusives any more.

This may or may not have ramifications. Maybe Microsoft's APIs will negate any and all problems. Maybe Xbox One hardware is already so flexible that developing cross-platform on PC and XBox One will be the same as developing exclusively. That all may be true.

But developing a game multiplatform has always had consequences in the past. Always. Again, maybe Microsoft will buck that trend? Who knows? But it is foolishness to pretend that Microsoft isn't trying to buck that trend. It's foolishness to act as if this is a different situation. It's not. A console's library just went multiplatform, and even though the same company owns the other piece of the platform, it's still a split between two platforms. The end. Microsoft appears to have a lot of mechanisms in place to make this work and lessen the impact, but it is still a fact that Xbox One is now pretty much a multiplatform machine.

On top of that, Microsoft's messaging makes it clear that Xbox One is now only one of many. It is not Microsoft's focus. It is not the tip of the spear. Games aren't being made to take advantage of its unique hardware or unique capabilities. In the very same way that Xbox moving away from the "traditional console model" may have good and bad consequences (you'd have to be silly to not admit that there are pros and cons to this decision), Xbox moving away from traditional console exclusives may have good and bad consequences. I can't think of many good consequences because this hasn't really been tried before. I can think of plenty of examples of bad consequences when a console loses its exclusives, though.

As such, my concern is that first-party development will suffer.

Let me put it another way on a new line for everyone to see: my concern is that the Xbox One will no longer be the best place to play Xbox exclusives. If that is the case, what's the value of getting the Xbox console? I understand that multiplatform games will almost never be "best" on consoles (assuming they have a PC equivalent), but for exclusives, what does this mean?

Let me go ahead and say this: Fuck. Console. Exclusives.

They made sense in the days when games built around exotic architecture had clear advantages. Those times have pretty much disappeared. Platforms today are all about well, the platform. Xbox 360 won (in North America) last generation not quite because of its exclusives but because people believed Xbox Live was better than PlayStation Network, and that the Xbox 360 environment was better than the PS3 environment. Early exclusives may have made an impact, but I believe MS's main advantage was the environment of its console and online service. The PS4 is winning right now because Sony didn't make any mistakes with the marketing message or the environment of the platform. There haven't really been any significant first party exclusives yet this generation.

I think console gamers need to let go of the idea that the individual box is the center of the whole platform and that its main selling point is a few unique pieces of software. I don't think it should bother you if the box you bought isn't the absolute best place to play Xbox games. If Microsoft goes the incremental upgrade route, different options will work better for different consumers. I have a mid-range graphics card that runs Witcher 3 at like 30fps. People out there running it at 60 with 980Ti cards don't bother me. I haven't bought any model of the 3DS since the original one because I reasoned I personally didn't need the XL or *new* model. I have an iPhone 6 Plus and people out there with the iPhone 6s don't bother me. If you want to play AAA games in the most high-end way, get a high-end PC. If you're fine playing those games in a mid-range fashion, stick with the base model Xbox One.

What is the value of the Xbox console? That value of it is that it only costs $350 and is plug & play.
 

LordRaptor

Member
But it's possible to have. MS has done this for it's Xbox owners. I'm saying I now trust MS over Sony to do the same going forward if I buy my titles digitally.

Right.

Okay.

But MS haven't done this for PC gamers who bought MS created titles from MS themselves.

So it comes across as pretty fucking hollow to brag about how awesome it is that (yo, PR handler, whats an old school PC game I can namedrop for cred? right) Phil can still play Quake when people who bought something like Viva Pinata directly from MS are left swinging in the wind with no access to their purchase.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Oculus pushed into the area first. Sony has had something like it as a tech demo for a long time but a business plan didn't coalesce around it until Oculus got a lot of great press and buzz.

That still doesn't make it less risky. And it doesn't make them less of a pioneer. Their VR solution is using tech that they've sold 4 years ago.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
As stated by a number of people in this thread, what Phil is implying sounds a lot like what the NX Platform is rumored to be. Except in this case, the handheld is swapped for PC.
 
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