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RTTP: Demon's Souls

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In 2010 I picked up Demon’s Souls based on critical and fan consensus. When the game released, it wasn’t on my radar in the slightest. After taking in the unending GAF hype, and checking out the media reception (which was also stellar), it was a no-brainer. The game was often described as “tough but fair”, akin to an old school Mega Man game, but in the style of a fantasy action RPG. For me, it was a no brainer. I mean, what could go wrong?

…well, everything, I guess. Demon’s Souls is the game that had me declare “fuck this shit” the most times, only for me to sigh and give it one “last” try, again and again. Yes, my first play through was with a Royaty character, and yes, I obsessively followed a walkthrough on GameFAQs. No, they didn’t help. I remember it took me upwards of an hour to make it past the first few Skeleton enemies in 4-1, and even killing the very first one was a lengthy struggle. And that was just a single level.

Needless to say, I eventually “got it”, and the series has been one of my favorites ever since. However, my first play through was a long time ago, and with the English version of Dark Souls 3 still a few weeks away*, I thought I’d use this time to make another run at the game. For this playthrough, I’m rolling a heavy armor sword-n’-board strength character. As of this time, I’m through the vast majority of the game, so here are my thoughts on what I’ve played:

1-1 - The Gates are Open

This is everything I want a first Souls level to be. Hidden paths, shortcuts, and interactions everywhere. This level is pretty fast and furious with what it throws at the player. From the dark ambushes of the first interior room, to the branching paths on the tower wall that can either lead the player forward, to a shortcut, or to an absolutely lethal Red Eye Knight, to the Ostrava encounter, to the dragons’ nest/bridge…this level provides both variety and a non-stop pace. Essential game items such as the Cling Ring and the Thief’s Ring are both found here; the one-two punch of opening the first shortcut and obtaining the Cling Ring gives early-game player empowerment like nothing else in the series. Also, there’s even the small Jade Hair Ornament quest to complete.

Phalanx is an interesting opening boss. On paper, it would make more sense to make to use the Tower Knight as the first boss due to its intimidation factor, but Phalanx is a more subtle test of the player’s skills. Emphasizing crowd control and skillful navigation, Phalanx is a breezy, but necessary skill check.

Final note for 1-1: Demon’s often gets a bit of flack for not having a connected, cohesive world, but Boletarian Palace as a whole displays a brilliant sense of scale and place. On the wall with the rolling balls trap, the player can see nearly all of 1-2, the building that 1-3 takes place in and around, and the tower of 1-4. While Boletarian Palace isn’t connected to Stonefang Tunnel, for example, it’s damn sure connected to other levels in its world, and these vistas do a great job in both contextualizing the playspace and foreshadowing future locations.

1-2 - Bridge to Somewhere

So, this level is pretty interesting. On one hand, yeah, it looks linear as hell. On the other, it actually has two paths through most of the level - one above and one below. What this level lacks in branching paths and secrets it makes up with for its unique environmental hazard (the dragon) and the resulting intimidation factor. Ostrava is also in a pickle here, and requires the player’s rescue. Crafty players can actually kill the red dragon with arrows, and the game even provides a bow on top of one of the towers to encourage this. It’s a demanding option, but I find some hilarity in its inclusion. The main trick for this level is figuring out that the dragon generally doesn’t torch entire segments of the bridge. For example, the dragon only breathes flames on maybe the last 80% of the last bridge segment, leaving the first 20% as a safe zone for the player. If a player tries to run the entire length, they’ll probably get incinerated, but starting from that safe zone leaves enough room to scrape by.

Tower Knight is the quintessential Souls boss. It’s big, loud, scary, and stacks the odds against the player - in this case, with its archer goons. But it’s also a walk in the park once the player, for lack of a better term, “gets it”. Dismantling the Knight’s rank of archer flunkies enables a one-on-one fight that mainly sees the player avoiding its AoE shield slams, and counterattacking its heels. One the Tower Knight’s boots take enough damage, the boss falls helplessly to the ground and is at the player’s mercy. Pro-tip: attack the head for maximum damage. This is actually a recurring theme with a few bosses, most notably Dragon God and Adjudicator. Thinking about it, Demon’s actually has a number of specific instances designed to empower the player. Anyway, that’s 1-2 down.

2-1 - Getting Harassed by Miners

The dreary atmosphere of Boletarian Palace gives way to the peaceful sunset of Stonefang Tunnel. There are a lot of neat tricks to the level design here; most notably how much of the level actually takes place in a small number of rooms that have multiple vertical levels to explore. Using switches to open new paths is emphasized here, with excursions to both remotely open a gate, and cool lava. The shortcut here is also neat, as it simultaneously unlocks Blacksmith Ed.

Armor Spider has a neat gimmick with how the player approaches it. The boss is in a circular room at the end of a long, somewhat-narrow tunnel, and the player must navigate the tunnel in order to fight it. Only problem is that the boss uses projectile flame attacks and movement-hindering webs as the player advances - encouraging pinpoint rolling (or just a big shield). Up close, the boss isn’t too much to write home about, but that approach segment still makes it a memorable encounter.

It should be said that, like all worlds in Demon’s, Stonefang Tunnel has something unique to offer certain character builds. 2-1 contains several unique bag-wielding miners that consistently drop many upgrade materials upon defeat. This is a huge boon to melee-based characters that are looking to upgrade their weapons as soon as possible. The level also contains a Crushing Battle Axe +1, which is a nice boost for strength characters in the early game. As stated, pretty much all of the X-1 levels offer items or even NPCs to fit certain playstyles. Latria contains enemies that drop MP-restoring spices, which are great for mages, and there’s also a sorcery merchant to be unlocked. Shrine of Storms contains a Crescent Falchion +1, which is pretty much the early game go-to for spellblade characters. And of course, Stonefang contains those sweet upgrade materials in abundance. They’re nice incentives to try certain levels over others, and the order will vary based on the type of character being played.

2-2 - *splat*

This is going to be short, since I only explored one part of the level, and that was basically the “shortcut”. Unlike most levels that have shortcuts within them, 2-1 opens up with a choice of two paths: go left for a longer path that’s generally safer, or head right for a shorter path that contains a potentially-lethal platforming section. I chose right because I’m such a badass, and I only died twice by falling to my death! Anyway, there literally isn’t much else to say here. Carefully fall down a handful of times, run through a short tunnel, and you’re at the boss. Easy, right?

..no. Flamelurker is no joke. I was rocking an asstastic Bastard Sword +4 that was dealing basically no damage to him. Even with my Purple Flame Shield, his attacks were draining most of my stamina with each hit. This fight is basically a no-frills slugfest that puts the player’s core skills to the test. Flamelurker hits reasonably hard, and most of his melee attacks produce an AoE effect. He can also close distance quickly with a leaping slash. However, he does get staggered when hit outside of an animation, so there’s that. After a grueling match, I got him down. Great fight.

2-3 - “…what was that noise?”

The final level for every world is a boss encounter, and Stonefang Tunnel’s has the player face off with the Dragon God. I’ve seen this fight get a lot of flack for some reason, and I don’t totally agree with it. Yes, the method of fighting him is a bit anticlimactic given his aesthetics. However, in reality the fight is really just a short stealth section that’s works totally fine. Avoiding the boss’ gaze by hiding behind pillars didn’t have any jank or questionable sightline detection when I played, so there’s that. After stealthily activating two giant ballistas, the Dragon God slumps over a cliff and is at the player’s mercy for the last few its. It’s an empowering way to end the fight that just feels good. A unique fight, perhaps not what players expected, but certainly not a terrible encounter on its own merits.

I also obtained the DRAGON BONE SMASHER for some reason here. I think logging onto the servers changed my world tendency to pure white or something. As a pure strength character, I’ll take it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

3-1 - Three Hots and a Cot

What’s left to say about the Tower of Latria? The atmosphere is suffocating, the level design is terrifically disorientating, and the Mindflayers are terrifying. This level generally emphasizes the skill of navigation rather than combat, making for some wonderful exploration. The main gimmick here is locating keys to unlock doors. There’s a nice section with the player almost moving into the line of sight of this huge arrow shooting machine to grab a key, and later appearing behind the machine, only to shut it off, is a gratifying moment.

Fool’s Idol is a fantastic boss imo. Memorizing trap locations is a unique challenge, and some pinpoint dodging is required to dodge her spell attacks. Just be sure to deal with the enemy above, first.

3-2 - Be Still, My Beating Heart

3-2 trades the narrow geometry of 3-1 and enclosed environment for…more narrow geometry, but flanked by a vast, open environment. The amount of open space here is kind of unsettling to me, to be honest. Anyway, there’s a large heart in the center of the area, and the gimmick here is to destroy two chains holding it up - doing so reveals the path to the boss. There’s a large swamp area underneath the level that contains horrors of its own, and the level design is very skillful here, with many shortcuts that don’t necessarily get the player to the boss quicker, but rather get the player back on the main path after making a detour for one of the chain objects. Also, fuck Gargoyles.

Also, dat heartbeat sound.

Also, dat droning sound.

…make it stop.

…pls.

Maneaters are our boss for 3-2. They generally use melee attacks, with a hint of ranged stuff mixed in. Like the gargoyles in the level proper, their AI is all kinds of fucked up. Sometimes they’ll fly around aimlessly for a while, sometimes they’ll appear to want to engage you in melee combat, only to lunge off the platform and sit there in the air looking all confused. Well, they’ll have plenty of time to think about whatever it is they’re thinking about, since they’re, you know…dead.

3-3 - Oh?!….ohhh……

Old Monk is supposed to be controlled by a human. There was a cutscene that played as I was approaching the boss room, so I thought it would be a human. Since it’s 2016 or whatever and nobody else is playing, he wasn’t. I think his AI rushed me with dual claws or something. I killed him quick.

4-1 - Spooky Skeletons

This might be my favorite level in the game. The skeletons are a ton of fun to fight. The atmosphere is pretty intense, especially when the flying Storm Beasts target you with their spikes. An illusory wall is required to progress, unless you kill the tough Vanguard enemy. You go on top of castle walls, into narrow basements, run along the side of cliffs, all while dealing with fun and challenging enemies. Bonus points for Snuggly being there. The Adjudicator Shield is sweet. Skeletons also give souls out the ass, which will be a recurring theme for world 4 (more on this later). Just all around an incredible level, even if the camera struggles a bit in the tighter quarters due to a lack of an option to disable auto-wall recovery.

Adjudicator is a great boss imo. It isn’t the most challenging, but it has an absolutely gnarly design, and multiple ways to fight it. Do you stay up high and pelt its head with arrows or magic? Or do you drop to the ground floor and engage it with melee, putting yourself at risk of being stricken by its giant meat cleaver? The boss room itself nearly feels like an enemy, which is a unique twist. Great boss.

4-2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd9PYIb0H2o

So, this playthrough enlightened me to the slightly fucked up game balance of Demon’s. Enemies in most levels give very few souls, so the player’s main source of income will be bosses. World 4 is an exception, with the skeletons in 4-1 giving a decent amount of souls upon death…but hoo boy. 4-2 is a whole different story. In most levels, I would approach the boss room with somewhere between 2000-5000 souls on hand. In 4-2, not even killing the first Reaper (which gives A LOT of souls), I had about 35K when finally getting to the boss room. Needless to say, I gained a lot of levels after that.

The level itself is essentially a linear gauntlet in which hidden Reaper enemies populate the pathways with endlessly respawning apparitions. The catch is that killing a Reaper will kill all spawned enemies associated with them, and net the player just an obscene number of souls. There’s some dangerous cliffside shimmying while contesting with skeletons and Storm Beasts, and the level ends with a uniquely white cavern with floating orbs of light that damage the player on contact.

The boss has another interesting gimmick - Old Hero is blind. This enables the player to use sound in order to sneak up on him, which is often essential, as he hits ridiculously hard. I believe his attacks were fully breaking my ~30 endurance guard with my Purple Flame Shield, and dealing about 1/3 of my life to boot. He feels more designed around being able to roll through his attacks, though I beat him after a tense battle.

4-3 - We AAA Gaming Now

Storm King is next up to be dismantled. Yes, this battle is essentially “press A to awesome”. Yes, it fucking works. After hours of challenging (and sometimes frustrating) gameplay, the player earns the right to blow off some steam. And this is it. After picking up the Storm Ruler sword in the boss arena, the player can rain death on the numerous Storm Beasts and Storm King with shockwaves that crack the sky. The power fantasy here is immense, the soul payout is immense, the player feels good, and that’s one more demon down. A little bit of this goes a long way.

That’s as far as I got, but I’m still loving Demon’s. The bosses are varied and unique, and the level design is consistently top notch. Didn’t even go into the amazing Nexus, or any game systems (encumbrance is blah, but whatever). Still have 1-3, 1-4, and all of world 5 left to do. Might update this thread with my thoughts if I get around to doing them. I hope everyone enjoys reading!

*except for Xbox One
 

Fat4all

Banned
It took me until my second playthrough to start reading item descriptions fully and paying attention to the small world building elements each area constructed together.

I hated this game for so long. As soon as it clicked, I loved it so much.

Remaster Needed.

Fuck. Yes.
 
I'm going to sound like a fucking hypocrite here but I really wish they'd re-release this in some capacity. I played this before I had the patience to grasp the mechanics and I never got more than an hour or two in before giving up. I love Dark Souls, though, and really want to give this game another shot now that I "get" it.
 

MegaMelon

Member
Got this coming in the mail in 2 days time. Hoping this will tide me over till Dark Souls 3 releases. I've played Dark Souls 1 (completed loved it) and 2 (didn't like it) so it'll be interesting to see how I like this one.

Any must know things before I start my playthrough?
 

Fat4all

Banned
I'm going to sound like a fucking hypocrite here but I really wish they'd re-release this in some capacity. I played this before I had the patience to grasp the mechanics and I never got more than an hour or two in before giving up. I love Dark Souls, though, and really want to give this game another shot now that I "get" it.

I don't think that's such a bad stance to hold. I love the hell out of the game, but it's rough in all the worst ways. Area's when it dips and hovers sub-20 fps would be better immensely from even just a 30-fps cap.

Going back to the game isn't exactly a hard thing to do if you really enjoy souls games, but I'd love a remake for it more than just about any other game.
 

Servbot24

Banned
DeS gave me some of my best memories ever in video games, is my favorite game of last gen, and is my favorite FROM game.

Not sure what it would be like for someone who has already played DaS, DaSII and BB, but I feel like it would still hold up.
 
DeS gave me some of my best memories ever in video games, is my favorite game of last gen, and is my favorite FROM game.

Not sure what it would be like for someone who has already played DaS, DaSII and BB, but I feel like it would still hold up.

IMO it has the second best level design (behind Bloodborne), and arguably the best bosses. Latria still probably has the best atmosphere in the series, and while encumbrance isn't ideal, it hasn't really been an issue for me. I think even a first time player who's also a Souls veteran would find a lot to love.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
DeS gave me some of my best memories ever in video games, is my favorite game of last gen, and is my favorite FROM game.

Not sure what it would be like for someone who has already played DaS, DaSII and BB, but I feel like it would still hold up.
I've played all of those and I still think Demon's is the best one. It's the only Souls game with no bad parts.

We'll see if DS3 can top it though, but probably not.
 

ZangBa

Member
I replayed it last weekend as a refresher I guess. I miss Dragon Bone Smasher and that's about it. Great game, but for me it's only gotten better since then.
 

Flipyap

Member
Remaster Needed.
I'd get it, but I'd much rather see a remake. The game is still perfectly playable on the PS3, but it has enough issues that really should be addressed if it's to be rereleased. Most notably, the whole World Tendency situation, which was a mess big enough that fixing it would likely go beyond the scope of a "remaster."

IMO it has the second best level design (behind Bloodborne), and arguably the best bosses.
The bosses might not be as challenging as they've become later in the series, but they're definitely some of the most inventive and unique boss fights I've ever seen, in any game.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I won't lie, I felt all warm and fuzzy and nostalgic reading all that, just reminiscing the brilliance of the level design, encounter design, atmosphere, etc. of my all-time favourite game. One that I almost rage quit early on, only to come back to it and love it as fiercely as I did.

That said I cringed at the "heavy armour" part. I hope you're still fast-rolling at least. xD
 
The bosses might not be as challenging as they've become later in the series, but they're definitely some of the most inventive and unique boss fights I've ever seen, in any game.

Exactly. Dark Souls 1 started a trend of most bosses being "slugfest" fights, and while those are fine, they started to overwhelm the rogues gallery imo. Demon's has some fantastic bosses in that style such as Flamelurker and False King, but balances them with more cerebral bosses like Phalanx and Fool's Idol. Demon's has more fights with a gimmick than those without, and personally I like my bosses to be pretty gimmicky for whatever reason. Gives them flavor, and makes them more than just oversized regular enemies.

I won't lie, I felt all warm and fuzzy and nostalgic reading all that, just reminiscing the brilliance of the level design, encounter design, atmosphere, etc. of my all-time favourite game. One that I almost rage quit early on, only to come back to it and love it as fiercely as I did.

That said I cringed at the "heavy armour" part. I hope you're still fast-rolling at least. xD

Nope :p

Though, as someone who's put hundreds of hours into the series (platinumed every Soulsborne, including DS2 twice on PS3 and PS4), this is my very first run of any of them with heavy armor and fat rolling,
 

mujun

Member
I just started Dark Souls 3 so my opinion might change but Demon's Souls is still my favorite game out of the series (including Bloodborne of course).
 

Justinh

Member
I still need to play this game. I got it near after launch and beat the first boss and everything, then I died to (probably) something stupid and quit playing because I thought you had to invade or help with a boss to get the rest of your life back. I didn't know there was an item too.

I probably won't get to it until I finish Bloodborne, though. And I probably won't get to that until I finish Dark Souls 3.
 
I still need to play this game. I got it near after launch and beat the first boss and everything, then I died to (probably) something stupid and quit playing because I thought you had to invade or help with a boss to get the rest of your life back. I didn't know there was an item too.

I probably won't get to it until I finish Bloodborne, though. And I probably won't get to that until I finish Dark Souls 3.

Cling Ring puts you up to about 75% life in soul form, rather than 50%. That's plenty to play with. It's also super early in 1-1, right next to the first shortcut.

Still better than Dark Souls, brehs.

a6BfqNF.gif
 
I'd get it, but I'd much rather see a remake. The game is still perfectly playable on the PS3, but it has enough issues that really should be addressed if it's to be rereleased. Most notably, the whole World Tendency situation, which was a mess big enough that fixing it would likely go beyond the scope of a "remaster."


The bosses might not be as challenging as they've become later in the series, but they're definitely some of the most inventive and unique boss fights I've ever seen, in any game.

Fixing WT is as simple as others not indirectly affecting others' WT.
 
World Tendency is...alright as long as it isn't affected by logging online. There are finite methods to manipulate it, so getting to say, +4 Black, then the game servers making everything like +3 White undos all the player's work and screws them out of the rewards.
 
I recently returned to this game as well and loved every second of it. The game is much easier than I remembered (could be due to experience) but the atmosphere, enemy & character design, gameplay and everything was amazing. I was surprised how well this game held up. Also, if you play this game as a mage/wizard the game turns into easy mode. I beat the whole game in under 7 hours on my 3rd playthrough. I am now trying to beat the game in Soul Level 1. Last boss I beat was Flamelurker. :)
 
To anyone whoes played Dark Souls or Bloodborne, it's actually easier to go back to then it seems.

Yep. Just a few things you have to get used to, like the lack of jumping attacks. Encumbrance only really comes into play if you pick up an insanely large weapon or a set of heavy armor. Otherwise, just make sure to deposit your excess upgrade items and gear at Stockpile Thomas, and you'll be fine. Other than that it's pretty much straight Souls.
 
Played all the Souls games and BB. Demon's is still my favourite. It really was / is something special. I love the other games, but there's just something about Demon's that makes it the best for me. Maybe because it was my first, but the atmosphere and world design also is unmatched.
 

Captcha

Member
Still my favorite in the series. SO much atmosphere. I'd put Tower of Latria near the top of any game I've ever played in terms of atmosphere. Honorable mention to that abortion swamp in 5-3.
 

Navy Bean

Member
Still my favorite in the series. SO much atmosphere. I'd put Tower of Latria near the top of any game I've ever played in terms of atmosphere. Honorable mention to that abortion swamp in 5-3.
Same. Easily the best Souls game for me. So many amazing and unique levels. But seriously, f those damn mosquitoes.
 

Flipyap

Member
Exactly. Dark Souls 1 started a trend of most bosses being "slugfest" fights, and while those are fine, they started to overwhelm the rogues gallery imo. Demon's has some fantastic bosses in that style such as Flamelurker and False King, but balances them with more cerebral bosses like Phalanx and Fool's Idol. Demon's has more fights with a gimmick than those without, and personally I like my bosses to be pretty gimmicky for whatever reason. Gives them flavor, and makes them more than just oversized regular enemies.
I really don't understand why the games that followed only used bosses as a challenge spike. Bloodborne is my overall favorite, but the change in From's boss design philosophy is a huge loss.
The variety of Demon's Souls gimmicks also makes the world feel less far less "gamey" and predictable. Like when the big scary monster at the end of a level turns out to be anything but, or when a seemingly impossible fight turns out to be the biggest power fantasy moment in the series. sogood.gif

Fixing WT is as simple as others not indirectly affecting others' WT.
I disagree. World Tendency makes no sense and encourages extremely silly behavior. I wish that it could be reworked into something that would make sense for the world and the player character, something that doesn't require me to disconnect from the internet and jump off a cliff ten times.
 
Demons Souls was a fantastic experience for me. I can go on about level design, enemy variety, and gameplay, but I'll just leave my favorite quote from any Souls game, one that encapsulates what I believe the theme and vibe of these games are to me:

"You have a heart of gold, don't let them take it from you."

Also, fuck Flamelurker.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I'm about to hit up Allant on my second character as well. I've made about the same amount of progress as I did with my first character but in a little over half the amount of time. What I learned: Souls is really all about your weapon.

On my first character I didn't really know what I was doing. On this character though I went in with a plan for what kind of character I was going to build and asked around about what weapons were best for that build. Started out aiming for a couple particular weapons I would start buffing from the start of the game, one of which now slays just about anything. Eventually I picked up a few more weapons I figure would be useful in certain zones and on certain bosses and they made much more of a difference than soul level or stats. A similar thing happened in Dark Souls 1: I found a good weapon early on and spent the whole game building it into an unstoppable force.

As for ranking the games, Dark Souls 1 might be objectively the best game, but my personal preference goes to Demon's. Part of it is the atmosphere and color palette, but I also think Demon's is a more consistent game. Most of my enjoyment of Dark Souls 1 is honestly pre-Anor Londo. From Firelink Shrine to Sen's Fortress Dark Souls is an amazingly well-connected game that nails just the right balance between 80's RPG fantasy and a tone that feels more medieval than most RPGs. The game becomes a bit disjointed and overly fantastical post-Anor Londo. The entirety of Demon's Souls is more consistent with that first half of Dark Souls 1. People might say Boletarian Palace is generic as fuck, but honestly I like seeing that extremely classical sort of medieval fantasy in a modern game Boletarian Palace does it much better than nearly any other recent RPG in my opinion (other close ones: Witcher, Witcher 3, Kingdom Come). Not to mention the prison area of the Tower of Latria.
 
I hated this game for so long. As soon as it clicked, I loved it so much.

This. So much of this. I hated Demon's Souls for 4 years. Then, in one last try at Tower Knight... it 'clicked'. And then i loved the game.

I'm in the same boat, first played it years ago and thought it was nothing special, never understood the hype for it, it wasn't until around last Christmas when I played Dark Souls that I decided to go back and give the game another try which I'm glad I did, the game finally clicked, I fucking love the game and for some insane reason I own 6 copies (EU/JPN and US version, both digital and physical) of the game now!! Lol
 

Keinu

Member
Kinda in the same boat OP. Played both Dark Souls so many times I decided to replay this old gem in preperation for Darks Souls III and it still such a great game. The horrible framerate at times can be really frustrating, but as you say; the level design is sublime at times and I easily forget the few problems with it. I've just completed 2-1 tonight so still have some way to go, but 2 weeks is a long time to wait anyway.
 

Fat4all

Banned
I'm about to hit up Allant on my second character as well. I've made about the same amount of progress as I did with my first character but in a little over half the amount of time. What I learned: Souls is really all about your weapon.

More than some other game series, your choice is weapon is very important. Each one practically acts as it's own "character" in the ways you play or approach the various worlds and enemies.

It's not uncommon to pick up a weapon you love an hour into the game, learn how to master it, and use it for the entirety of the game, maybe shifting it to a sub weapon when you find something you love even more.

Look at the Adjudicator

this is one of the best creatures ever designed for a video game

I'm in love with the fact that he's a very straight-forward boss at the end of a decently challenging level. I find a lot of the level 1 bosses act as sorts of tutorials for the different ways you have to handle bosses later.

Wonderful.

ALSO, look at this shield you get in the level before you even fight him:

adj-shield-on-hand.jpg


Fucking baller.
 
I personally prefer the level design of Demons Souls Vs Dark Souls. Each world is memorable in its own way and intricately designed. The game is also dripping with atmosphere. Not saying I don't like the level/world design of dark souls, just prefer one a little more than the other
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Exactly. Dark Souls 1 started a trend of most bosses being "slugfest" fights, and while those are fine, they started to overwhelm the rogues gallery imo. Demon's has some fantastic bosses in that style such as Flamelurker and False King, but balances them with more cerebral bosses like Phalanx and Fool's Idol. Demon's has more fights with a gimmick than those without, and personally I like my bosses to be pretty gimmicky for whatever reason. Gives them flavor, and makes them more than just oversized regular enemies.

I just noticed this too, and I guess I can see both ways. They're all intimidating at first and more punishing than your average video game boss these days, but If you know what you're doing, only three bosses in Demon's Souls might turn into really tough battles of attrition: Firelurker, the Maneaters, and False King. Most are pretty easy once you figure them out, kind of like puzzles.

On the other hand I get the idea of the later games making most of the bosses more skill-based than puzzle-based. Demon's Souls doesn't have anything like Fatboy Slim or Artorias. Dark Souls bosses feel like Mega Man bosses in that respect actually.
 
I
As for ranking the games, Dark Souls 1 might be objectively the best game, but my personal preference goes to Demon's. Part of it is the atmosphere and color palette, but I also think Demon's is a more consistent game. Most of my enjoyment of Dark Souls 1 is honestly pre-Anor Londo. From Firelink Shrine to Sen's Fortress Dark Souls is an amazingly well-connected game that nails just the right balance between 80's RPG fantasy and a tone that feels more medieval than most RPGs. The game becomes a bit disjointed and overly fantastical post-Anor Londo. The entirety of Demon's Souls is more consistent with that first half of Dark Souls 1. People might say Boletarian Palace is generic as fuck, but honestly I like seeing that extremely classical sort of medieval fantasy in a modern game Boletarian Palace does it much better than nearly any other recent RPG in my opinion (other close ones: Witcher, Witcher 3, Kingdom Come). Not to mention the prison area of the Tower of Latria.

Dark Souls 1 really suffers for me in the level design department. Not that's it's all bad, I mean, there are some great areas in there like The Depths, Blighttown, Sen's Fortress, and Painted World. But overall it just doesn't stack up to Demon's imo. Undead Burg/Parish is far behind both 1-1/1-2 and Central Yharnam for me. Back half of Dark Souls is kind of a mess in parts, and Anor Londo doesn't deliver on its aesthetic promises (most of the castle interior is just empty rooms).

Demon's definitely has some issues, but those are more confined to the supporting systems like encumbrance and world tendency, rather than the core game mechanics and content. The level design is consistently great, the atmosphere is consistently great, and the bosses are consistently great (and unique!). It just really does it for me. Bloodborne is still my favorite, but Demon's is a very close second.

On the other hand I get the idea of the later games making most of the bosses more skill-based than puzzle-based. Demon's Souls doesn't have anything like Fatboy Slim or Artorias. Dark Souls bosses feel like Mega Man bosses in that respect actually.

That's definitely true. But I think it might be a bit of a trade off - Demon's bosses are generally easier than those in other games (at least when you figure them out), but the levels themselves are no joke. In Dark Souls I die most often to bosses, while in Demon's I die most often to enemies in the levels. I'm especially dreading the giant plague people in 5-1/5-2. Those motherfuckers are for real.
 

Tuck

Member
One of the best games I have ever played, and the one that introduced me to the Souls games. I spent 40 hours on it.

I got it for 5 dollars. 5 fucking dollars.

took me 5 hours to beat level 1. Then another 5 to beat a second level. But then it clicked and I was able to go at a steady pace.

Tower of Latria's level design is fucking materful. And Boletaria and the mines were pretty damn great too. The swamp was the only one I wasn't in love with.

That said, Dark Souls fixes a lot of my issues - less gimmicky bosses (Fuck you, Dragon God), non-consumable health potions, more/fairly placed checkpoints.
 

Fat4all

Banned
Dark Souls 1 really suffers for me in the level design department. Not that's it's all bad, I mean, there are some great areas in there like The Depths, Blighttown, Sen's Fortress, and Painted World. But overall it just doesn't stack up to Demon's imo. Undead Burg/Parish is far behind both 1-1/1-2 and Central Yharnam for me. Back half of Dark Souls is kind of a mess in parts, and Anor Londo doesn't deliver on its aesthetic promises (most of the castle interior is just empty rooms).

Demon's definitely has some issues, but those are more confined to the supporting systems like encumbrance and world tendency, rather than the core game mechanics and content. The level design is consistently great, the atmosphere is consistently great, and the bosses are consistently great (and unique!). It just really does it for me. Bloodborne is still my favorite, but Demon's is a very close second.

I won't lie that the level designs as a whole are much better in Demon's, but if I'm gonna be true to myself then I gotta say that the inter connectivity and shortcut-porn that is Dark Souls is just much more appealing to me.
 

Neiteio

Member
Some random thoughts, although this OP is fantastic and deserves more attention:

- My first time through, I beat Tower Knight at Soul Level 1... because I didn't know you could level up! Man, in retrospect, the first two levels would've been a lot easier if I had known about cashing in souls at the Maiden in Black to level up. Thankfully, I realized this right after beating Tower Knight, so I started leveling up going into Stonefang.

- Tower Knight was the hump to get over. Once I beat him, everything clicked. But it was a process. The grueling run back each time raised the stakes for failure. Simply put, he was overwhelming... Like fighting a mountain. Overcoming him is probably the highest high I've had in this series... Actually, scratch that: Defiled Watchdog of the Old Lords in Bloodborne and Fume Knight in Dark Souls 2 have since dethroned him. But Tower Knight still holds a special place in my heart for his difficulty relative to my skill at the time.

- Like Xtortionist, I really struggled with the first two levels, but there was something oddly addictive about it. I think it was the incremental process of discovery, peeling back a bit more of the world with each attempt.

- I one-shot Flamelurker, but I was following a wiki and using a Purple Flame Shield that was modified in some way to absorb all of his attacks. I think I hit back with soul arrows... or some kind of projectile. Been a while!

- Dragon God is fantastic. Yes, he's simple. Yes, he's not challenging. But he's the Souls equivalent of Chernobog from Fantasia, and that's awesome:

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Seeing his glowing red eyes and fang-filled mouth at the end of the corridor of pillars was pure intimidation. Even if his attacks were largely ineffectual, just knowing that that thing was watching me scurry around like a mouse in a maze had me sweatin'.

- It seems that 3-1 always get all the love when it comes to Tower of Latria, and it's indeed fantastic, with some of the best use of lighting and "colorful darkness" in the series, not to mention the best sound design. But 3-2 is actually my favorite level in this world. The sight of those wrought-iron gargoyles silhouetted against the eerie chain-linked sky, their beady red eyes glowing in the darkness, and the knowledge that far, far below was a swamp crawling with human-headed centipedes was just... Too much!

Eager to hear Xtortionist's updated thoughts on perhaps my favorite world, the Valley of Defilement. It's the Souls formula at its most exquisitely grueling. Sadistic design calculated to inflict maximum pain, yet the player can't resist!
 
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