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Why does FF: XV Demo's IQ look so bad? Artificial sharpening filter in place?

Northeastmonk

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I noticed that Noctis wasn't that detailed. It felt that the engine could be a Kingdom Hearts engine with very little exploration besides where they allowed you to go.

It didn't have a whole lot of detail. A dream sequence that branches from portal to portal isn't exactly a large portion of a Final Fantasy game if you ask me. The cutscenes looked great, but in all honesty I'm not judging it based off this latest demo because it's just a small portion of the game that doesn't really offer much besides a fresh new feeling of the game.

Outside of that texture weren't jaw dropping. His hair felt like it needed some polish, backgrounds felt like they had no textures to them at all, and the world felt like it needed just a little bit more besides blockades. It should feel well rounded.

Being a dream sequence gave us the scale stuff and of course it's his dream, so it's not like it's something to be incredibly upset about. I rarely know much about Noctis, so I just hope the game itself is fun to play.

If you go back to older footage, when they had him fight the Bohemoth. That was impressive, but again that could probably look the same. I played it on a 50" HDTV and some of the screen caps from my friend's list looked better than what was on my screen.

The world needs something or maybe a better build up to appreciate it. Right now it's all about the combat if you ask me.
 
P

Putty

Member
Texture resolution is awful in the main....I'd like to think come release these are improved ALOT...So much with the tech side needs tightening up.....
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Guess Who said:
Jesus fuck, this is what I'd expect a PS3 version to look like.
Click to expand...

Hrmmmm
UJq5VR.png


There is something going on weird with these edges here. Sharpening like everyone says, but also something else.
sharpyoj15.png


Like, this thing has a complete black pixel outline. If this is a sharpening filter, then they have it completely cranked to cause that.
 
L

Lemondish

Member
Northeastmonk said:
I noticed that Noctis wasn't that detailed. It felt that the engine could be a Kingdom Hearts engine with very little exploration besides where they allowed you to go.

It didn't have a whole lot of detail. A dream sequence that branches from portal to portal isn't exactly a large portion of a Final Fantasy game if you ask me. The cutscenes looked great, but in all honesty I'm not judging it based off this latest demo because it's just a small portion of the game that doesn't really offer much besides a fresh new feeling of the game.

Outside of that texture weren't jaw dropping. His hair felt like it needed some polish, backgrounds felt like they had no textures to them at all, and the world felt like it needed just a little bit more besides blockades. It should feel well rounded.

Being a dream sequence gave us the scale stuff and of course it's his dream, so it's not like it's something to be incredibly upset about. I rarely know much about Noctis, so I just hope the game itself is fun to play.

If you go back to older footage, when they had him fight the Bohemoth. That was impressive, but again that could probably look the same. I played it on a 50" HDTV and some of the screen caps from my friend's list looked better than what was on my screen.

The world needs something or maybe a better build up to appreciate it. Right now it's all about the combat if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Surprise, this isn't even part of the main game. Explains why it didn't feel detailed, wasn't optimized for shit, and seemed to be pushing the day/night cycle and active weather tech more than anything else.
 
J

Javin98

Banned
Dictator93 said:
Hrmmmm
UJq5VR.png


There is something going on weird with these edges here. Sharpening like everyone says, but also something else.
sharpyoj15.png


Like, this thing has a complete black pixel outline. If this is a sharpening filter, then they have it completely cranked to cause that.
Click to expand...
You don't think that Square is doing some temporal reconstruction here, do you?
 
T

T-0800

Member
chozen said:
Wow people are really worried about the graphics here huh, wasn't witcher 3 also terrible on consoles ?

Also what about this Umbra engine or what ever they are implementing wouldn't it help in the final product?
Click to expand...

Witcher looks so much better than this. So much better.
 
L

Lemondish

Member
T-0800 said:
Witcher looks so much better than this. So much better.
Click to expand...

Sure, but in motion? That game has severe performance issues.

Not that FF15 doesn't, just saying that the Witcher 3 isn't the best example of good tech. Actually one of the worst examples of compromising playability for IQ.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Javin98 said:
You don't think that Square is doing some temporal reconstruction here, do you?
Click to expand...
I honestly have no idea what the artifacts of something like that would look like in practice (beyond just having moments, like QB where the real internal resolution becomes obvious when the reconstruction fails). Plus I think the kind of artifacts one would see would be wholly dependent on how the image is reconstrcuted (i.e. the specific technique). Nonetheless, I do not think said artifacts would appear not necessarily appear as a black outline. Did Square say they were doing something like that?

Are there any areas of the game, like with transparency effects for example, where you see ghosting or weirdness? The hair obviously looks like a pixel mess, but how do, for example, particles look or an alpha effect, like fire?
tuxfool said:
pixel crawling is an accurate reflection of the reality we live in which is that all stability is transitory.
Click to expand...

That is deep, man.
 
L

Lemondish

Member
Dictator93 said:
I honestly have no idea what the artifacts of something like that would look like in practice (beyond just having moments, like QB where the real internal resolution becomes obvious when the reconstruction fails). Plus I think the kind of artifacts one would see would be wholly dependent on how the image is reconstrcuted (i.e. the specific technique). Nonetheless, I do not think said artifacts would appear as a black outline. Did Square say they were doing something like that?

Are there any areas of the game, like with transparency effects for example, where you see ghosting or weirdness? The hair obviously looks like a pixel mess, but how do, for example, particles look or an alpha effect, like fire?
Click to expand...

Might have to wait to see actual parts of the game like Duscae to determine. This whole dream sequence won't even be in FF15.

T-0800 said:
Runs much better than FF15. Maybe you haven't played it after the last lot of patches.
Click to expand...

Addressed that in my edit, but I'll point it out here too. Witcher 3 is not a great example for developers to follow. Release a poorly optimized game and spend six months fixing it? No thanks. Performance is obviously an issue with FF15, but then again this isn't even going to be a part of the main game, so how much optimization should be expected?
 
J

Javin98

Banned
Dictator93 said:
I honestly have no idea what the artifacts of something like that would look like in practice (beyond just having moments, like QB where the real internal resolution becomes obvious when the reconstruction fails). Plus I think the kind of artifacts one would see would be wholly dependent on how the image is reconstrcuted (i.e. the specific technique). Nonetheless, I do not think said artifacts would appear not necessarily appear as a black outline. Did Square say they were doing something like that?

Are there any areas of the game, like with transparency effects for example, where you see ghosting or weirdness? The hair obviously looks like a pixel mess, but how do, for example, particles look or an alpha effect, like fire?
Click to expand...
Hmm, I don't have the best eye for minor details that would stand out, but I don't think I saw any weird ghosting or artifacts from alpha effects. We do know that this beta runs on a dynamic resolution on both consoles, though.
 
T

T-0800

Member
Lemondish said:
Might have to wait to see actual parts of the game like Duscae to determine. This whole dream sequence won't even be in FF15.



Addressed that in my edit, but I'll point it out here too. Witcher 3 is not a great example for developers to follow. Release a poorly optimized game and spend six months fixing it? No thanks. Performance is obviously an issue with FF15, but then again this isn't even going to be a part of the main game, so how much optimization should be expected?
Click to expand...

Fair enough but at the end of the day we can only judge what has been put before us.
 
M

MoogleWizard

Member
Final Fantasy games have always been graphical showpieces. FF6 on the SNES, FFVIII and IX on the PSOne (the FMVs and pre rendered background were just amazing at the time), FFXII on the PS2, and as disappointing it is as a FF game, FFXIII was simply a beautiful game on the PS3, and it ran well and had great IQ. How the mighty have fallen. Too bad, because the art is still top notch.
 
T

Terbinator

Member
Dictator93 said:
Like, this thing has a complete black pixel outline. If this is a sharpening filter, then they have it completely cranked to cause that.
Click to expand...

There are parts in the XB1 demo where the screen is almost complete darkness as the engine tries to process the HDR lighting in shadowed areas. Unplayable in sections without waiting for 1 second plus.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Lemondish said:
Might have to wait to see actual parts of the game like Duscae to determine. This whole dream sequence won't even be in FF15.
Click to expand...
That is crazy. This is a vertical slice not in the final game? Crazy.
Javin98 said:
Hmm, I don't have the best eye for minor details that would stand out, but I don't think I saw any weird ghosting or artifacts from alpha effects. We do know that this beta runs on a dynamic resolution on both consoles, though.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I should peruse the console screenshot thread to see what I find. There may be something there hinting at it.

Dynamic resolution, eh? What is the max resolution from that? Does it ever hit like, 1920X1080 if you stare at a wall? That would be interesting to see what the jaggies look like in that scenario vs. when it is lower.
Terbinator said:
There are parts in the XB1 demo where the screen is almost complete darkness as the engine tries to process the HDR lighting in shadowed areas. Unplayable in sections without waiting for 1 second plus.
Click to expand...

Eye adaptation is always a doubled edged sword. If you have crazy high exposure settings like this game seems to have (it does create that cool and nice, deep orange glow from lights though in the indoor scenes from what I saw), you can definitely have moments like that.

edit: was just browsing the console screenshot thread and came across this (from user Platina):
uz6LUg.png


Check out the resolution of the motion blur + DOF here (or its masking at least?):
quarterresolutionpostxhkl6.png


Half resolution from 1600X900? Even lower? IDK, did not take the time to count. But things like this (where different buffers are running at lower resolution than the screen output) would defiitely exacerbate IQ problems on top of the real rendering resolution. It makes me think this game's IQ problems are a conglomeration of things, not just completely tracable back to one decision or one element.
 
J

Javin98

Banned
Dictator93 said:
Perhaps I should peruse the console screenshot thread to see what I find. There may be something there hinting at it.

Dynamic resolution, eh? What is the max resolution from that? Does it ever hit like, 1920X1080 if you stare at a wall? That would be interesting to see what the jaggies look like in that scenario vs. when it is lower.
Click to expand...
Don't quote me on this as we don't have any data yet to back this up, but the PS4 version should be 1080p more often than not.
 
D

Durante

Member
Dictator93 said:
Hrmmmm
UJq5VR.png


There is something going on weird with these edges here. Sharpening like everyone says, but also something else.
sharpyoj15.png


Like, this thing has a complete black pixel outline. If this is a sharpening filter, then they have it completely cranked to cause that.
Click to expand...
It could be a temporal AA (or motion blur?) attempt which failed hard and had sharpening applied on the result.
 
R

RickyRozay

Member
Javin98 said:
So for those of us who can't watch the video right now, please tell us what it explains?
Click to expand...

Basically both systems are using dynamic resolution with the ps4s highest being 1920x1080 and lowest 1568x882 (last boss). The x1 highest is 1568x882 and lowest 1360x768 (last boss) it never hits 1080p.

Both systems are apparently using some kind cheap Post AA which doesn't do anything but blur the image. Both systems can drop to 15 fps during the last boss.

Ps4 while looking better with the higher resolution and better fps suffers from frame pacing issues where as the x1 does not.
 
J

Javin98

Banned
RickyRozay said:
Basically both systems are using dynamic resolution with the ps4s highest being 1920x1080 and lowest 1568x882 (last boss). The x1 highest is 1568x882 and lowest 1360x768 (last boss) it never hits 1080p.

Both systems are apparently using some kind cheap Post AA which doesn't do anything but blur the image.
Click to expand...
Huh, the sequence with the boss runs at sub 900p on PS4 and still isn't a smooth 30FPS. That's somewhat worrying. Also, I do hope they switch their post AA solution. It's absolutely horrible to the point that perhaps even plain FXAA is better. Hopefully, this demo was poorly optimized and represents an old build since it's not even part of the main game.
 
R

RickyRozay

Member
Javin98 said:
Huh, the sequence with the boss runs at sub 900p on PS4 and still isn't a smooth 30FPS. That's somewhat worrying. Also, I do hope they switch their post AA solution. It's absolutely horrible to the point that perhaps even plain FXAA is better. Hopefully, this demo was poorly optimized and represents an old build since it's not even part of the main game.
Click to expand...

I didn't get a chance to play the duscae demo but from what I'm hearing this has taken a step back from a visual perspective which is concerning especially with the frame drops and sub 900 resolution.

Like you said I'm hoping this is just an old build and doesn't represent where they are currently but either way if you're trying to sell this game based off this tech demo to people who never had a chance to play duscae, you might want to make sure you're tech demo is decently optimized. Square definitely has some things to get done and I hope they can pull it off in the next couple months.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
the_batman said:
6 months when they've been working on this game for what, 10 years?
Click to expand...

4 years. It's best to take it that FFXV is an entirely new game building off the skeleton of a killed FFversusXIII.
 
D

Diablos

Member
entrydenied said:
4 years. It's best to take it that FFXV is an entirely new game building off the skeleton of a killed FFversusXIII.
Click to expand...
That's always in the back of my head. This really isn't exactly the game we saw 10 years ago.

Really makes me wonder what could have been. What was so great about Versus that Nomura had to spend so much time polishing and obsessing over it, to the point where he just couldn't commit to actually getting it done?
 
K

KupoNut

Member
entrydenied said:
4 years. It's best to take it that FFXV is an entirely new game building off the skeleton of a killed FFversusXIII.
Click to expand...

And based on the Environments video and gameplay videos, they've achieved a ton of content in those 4 years. People need to cut out with the "10 years" nonsense.
 
N

Nibel

Member
"Looks like a PS3 game" No it doesn't.

But IQ is indeed a big mess. I don't expect much improvement at launch.
 
D

Diablos

Member
KupoNut said:
And based on the Environments video and gameplay videos, they've achieved a ton of content in those 4 years. People need to cut out with the "10 years" nonsense.
Click to expand...
It feels like 10 years though. Even if it's built on a skeleton, there's enough similarity to identify with the dead project that was Versus XIII.
 
ZehDon

ZehDon

Gold Member
the_batman said:
6 months when they've been working on this game for what, 10 years?
Click to expand...
You mean 6 months of content-complete, performance-focused, console-specific optimisations? It absolutely has the potential to get the game up to constant 30 with no frame pacing on either console.
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
RickyRozay said:
I didn't get a chance to play the duscae demo but from what I'm hearing this has taken a step back from a visual perspective which is concerning especially with the frame drops and sub 900 resolution.

Like you said I'm hoping this is just an old build and doesn't represent where they are currently but either way if you're trying to sell this game based off this tech demo to people who never had a chance to play duscae, you might want to make sure you're tech demo is decently optimized. Square definitely has some things to get done and I hope they can pull it off in the next couple months.
Click to expand...

I would say the IQ is generally clearer and cleaner in this demo, but the scenes are obviously much more expansive and therefore impressive in Duscae.
 
R

rayman1900

Member
It has been confirmed by a French FF website that the demo was only made by a very small team only in 2 months. Pretty sure they took the engine in its current state and didn't bother optimizing in order to meet deadline.
 
Go_Ly_Dow

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
rayman1900 said:
It has been confirmed by a French FF website that the demo was only made by a very small team only in 2 months. Pretty sure they took the engine in its current state and didn't bother optimizing in order to meet deadline.
Click to expand...

Then it begs the question why they thought this demo was a good idea.

Come on S-E........

(Also got a source?)
 
A

Asd202

Member
rayman1900 said:
It has been confirmed by a French FF website that the demo was only made by a very small team only in 2 months. Pretty sure they took the engine in its current state and didn't bother optimizing in order to meet deadline.
Click to expand...

The messaging around this demo is confusing.
 
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