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[Northeastmonk]

I was psuedo-into health care as a nursing student and it's probably more common than people think. You're basically giving people an authority to "service" your health needs and that comes with analyzing the human condition. Most, if not a large majority of people feel the need to comment or at least voice an opinion. In my own opinion I think it's far too easy to have health care professionals make fun of someone. Like it's already been said before, it's possibly a way of coping.

I was in nursing school for a year, God knows how catty it got. I heard things about me that I've never heard said since the years of high school. There was a lot of stress, but it didn't make my time there better.

I remember being on the phone with one student and they were telling me about what other people said. I apparently wasn't trying to get their attention, but I was talked bad about. I was this super weird introvert who talked a lot.

I see this story and it reminds me of why I look back to nursing school and smh.

The God complex has to make it far worse than nursing. I failed because I wasn't clinical smart, but it still made everything suck to have "-"personal"-" remarks made about me by people I had never met before.

 

[Dr.Social]

If you blow off stress by being a disgusting piece of shit, I think it says a lot about the kind of person you actually are when you're just no longer able to keep up appearances.

.

 

[hockeypuck]

Depends on your alternatives, Cephalosporins can be a good choice in general for abdominal surgery. As for as I'm concerned, the guidelines I'm going by advice against any prophylactic for hernia surgery but I'm not working in Texas and I imagine that the surgeon in the OP might have had other recommendations. I mean, it isn't optimal - they should probably have gone with a later generation ceph at the very least -

Nah, Ancef is a perfectly acceptable and probably preferable to later generation cephalosporins when it comes to hiatal hernia surgery. You're conflating "hernia surgery" with all different types of hernias.

Its not uncommon to give patients Ancef if they've had a minor allergic reaction to Penicillin. For one, the vast majority of patients with minor penicillin allergies don't have true allergic reactions (or they've outgrown them). Secondly, the cross-reaction between Ancef and Penicllin is something like 1%. For a minor reaction, that's an acceptable risk. Her "difficulty breathing for days" had to do with the fact she just had surgery for a hiatal hernia and nothing to do with the reaction - anaphylaxis doesn't work like that.

Agreed 100%. There was absolutely nothing medically inappropriate with how the antibiotic was administered.

And if there is any chance of a penicillin allergy, we're told specifically not to use ancef.

1. Your institution is breeding more resistance by increased use of clindamycin and vancomycin.
2. Prescribing cefazolin in the setting of non-anaphylactic penicillin reaction is perfectly acceptable. And should an anaphylactic reaction occur, there is no better place for the patient to be than in the operating room, where the antibiotic is administered. The patient is already intubated when the antibiotic is given.

You'd be ok if the surgeons played actual Russian Roulette with you as long as you didn't die?

If they increase the expected risk of your dying or having complications, they should be held accountable. Even if the outcome was successful.

This surgeon was not playing Russian roulette with this patient.

Couple things.

1) cross reactivity between cephalosporins and penicillins are exceedingly rare. Still, if there was even a whiff of an allergic reaction possible, they should've used an alternative agent. A dose of vancomycin would've been just fine, there's no need to perform a random drug trial in the OR.

2) I don't care if you think a person is snowed, or if the person is a righteous asshole-- you never, never, ever snipe at someone under anesthesia. Crack as many stupid jokes as you like, of course, but it's best to leave the patient out of them. It's not only tastless, that person, whomever they are, is depending on you, and for even a minor procedure has put their life in your hands.

Personal policy. I don't do procedures under general anesthesia, but if I ever had to go under I'd want my doc to afford me the same consideration.

Disagree with point 1, m0dus. If I have a patient who tells me his reaction to penicillin is rash or pruritus, I'm perfectly fine with giving cefazolin as prophylaxis in the OR. Me and thousands of others do this thousands of times every day. Specifically the "swelling" part of the history would've made me stop, but I don't know how that part of the history was elucidated.

Regarding point 2, I agree up to 99%. But if me and 5+ other professionals are up at 3 o'clock in the morning busy saving your life because you did something really stupid, I don't have any qualms referring to you as a dumbass while you sleep. And are you telling me, m0dus, that you have personally never ranted about a terrible patient to another colleague? You'd either be a saint, or a liar.

In today's litigious society, no point taking the risk. Or as stated earlier, just take a 5th gen instead of Ancef; has an even lower probability of cross reaction.

LOL, giving ceftaroline as prophylaxis prior to incision!? This is hilarious.

Boys will be boys

Am I doing it right, GAF? I bet the majority of female doctors dont have this dark humor while operating and still have succesful operations.

Since I probably have better knowledge about this than you, wanna make a bet?


Edit: fucking ceftaroline, still laughing about this. That guy's a hoot.

 

[Huff]

Fuck it, dapto for everyone. better not take the risk

 

[Nivash]

Nah, Ancef is a perfectly acceptable and probably preferable to later generation cephalosporins when it comes to hiatal hernia surgery. You're conflating "hernia surgery" with all different types of hernias.

Oh I wasn't questioning the efficacy, just the choice of Ancef specifically if you're having thoughts about possible allergy. I might be biased about this though as we tend to only use cephalosporins prophylactically over here if there is a risk of anaphylaxis in some other drug, and then we lean towards cefotaxim. Cephs are held back in general if there are other options. We don't really use abx prophylaxis at all for hiatal hernias in immunocompetent patients actually, we tend to be very restrictive with our abx overall, so I'm probably coming at this from a different mindset.

EDIT: scratch the above, was reading the wrong guideline. We do tend to be restrictive about using abx but we make an exception for fundoplication and use cefuroxime for prophylaxis.

With that in mind I'm going to bow out and leave the discussion to you docs that are working in a more similar environment to the surgeon in the OP with the parting word that I agree, there's nothing wrong about using Ancef. There can be different attitudes towards ceph use, but that's a technical subject that's not really relevant to this thread beyond the fact that the surgeon appears to have followed procedure.

 

[Your Entertainer]

Bonding with your colleagues & having a good team spirit doesn't have to include that kind of shit talk. Justifying their actions as "blowing off steam" just helps this kind of behaviour continue when we could condemn it and aim to have doctors improve their manners at work. The high stress (partly) EXPLAINS the behaviour. It doesn't justify it and there's nothing wrong in demanding these people to do better. I've been in prolonged high stress situations and I've never degraded to a borderline-rapist, sexist asshole.

Besides, is this something that women do as well? Do female surgeons generally joke about sucking/touching someone's hung cock when they see one on an unconscious patient? If it's such a high stress job that it degrades everyone in it into horrible human scum levels of pathetic, it should affect women too, right? Or is this mostly a "man thing" and as such just another form of sexism that is let run rampant among these circle with weak arguments like yours because, hey, everybody does it and they are important people! ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Bolding this last point to highlight how exceptionally stupid and presumptuous it is. You're trying really hard to be mad about something and it's not there. How much non-patient time have you spent in the operating room? How many surgeons have you worked with?

EDIT: And this too, if you're not being sarcastic

Boys will be boys

Am I doing it right, GAF? I bet the majority of female doctors dont have this dark humor while operating and still have succesful operations.

 

[icecream]

ITT: Distinguishing the doctors who are surgeons versus physicians/mid-levels/MS who don't routinely deal with antibiotic prophylaxis in surgical patients.

 

[m0dus]

Nah, Ancef is a perfectly acceptable and probably preferable to later generation cephalosporins when it comes to hiatal hernia surgery. You're conflating "hernia surgery" with all different types of hernias.



Agreed 100%. There was absolutely nothing medically inappropriate with how the antibiotic was administered.



1. Your institution is breeding more resistance by increased use of clindamycin and vancomycin.
2. Prescribing cefazolin in the setting of non-anaphylactic penicillin reaction is perfectly acceptable. And should an anaphylactic reaction occur, there is no better place for the patient to be than in the operating room, where the antibiotic is administered. The patient is already intubated when the antibiotic is given.



This surgeon was not playing Russian roulette with this patient.



Disagree with point 1, m0dus. If I have a patient who tells me his reaction to penicillin is rash or pruritus, I'm perfectly fine with giving cefazolin as prophylaxis in the OR. Me and thousands of others do this thousands of times every day. Specifically the "swelling" part of the history would've made me stop, but I don't know how that part of the history was elucidated.

Regarding point 2, I agree up to 99%. But if me and 5+ other professionals are up at 3 o'clock in the morning busy saving your life because you did something really stupid, I don't have any qualms referring to you as a dumbass while you sleep. And are you telling me, m0dus, that you have personally never ranted about a terrible patient to another colleague? You'd either be a saint, or a liar.


LOL, giving ceftaroline as prophylaxis prior to incision!? This is hilarious.


Since I probably have better knowledge about this than you, wanna make a bet?


Edit: fucking ceftaroline, still laughing about this. That guy's a hoot.

You're entitled to disagree with point 1--but upon further examination it seems you agree with me: if we are talking prophylactic meds rather than a treatment dose, there are a multitude of options. Again, cross reactivity is exceedingly rare. If a person has a history of hives or rash, fuck it, I give them the cephalosporin. If they have evidence of an actual anaphylactic or significant allergic reaction (gathered by me, the triage nurse, or whomever as part of the intake history), I will consider the use of an alt agent because you're not targeting a resistant organism. (In the past I've prescribed a flouroquinolone antibiotic to a friend for an infection, and he ended up having a significant drug reaction (and I felt like shit), so maybe I'm twice shy. )

You have to take their history into account. In this case, it was bad luck. To be clear, nothing was done inappropriately on their part.

Point 2? I guess I'm a saint then. Hell yes I've ranted about some of the more foolish, bigoted, insane patients I've dealt with, except not in their presence, and not when they are under anesthesia. Just as we are taught to always assume the patient is infectious (i.e., wash your hands) also always assume the patient can hear you.

 

[SuperBowser]

Surgeons can say very inappropriate things sometimes. However, I think a lot of the quotes here are taken out of context and they managed her antibiotics correctly, despite what the patient and article claim. I've seen plenty of anaesthetists manage "penicillin rash allergy" the same way. She did not have anaphylaxis and they monitored her closely.

I've been on the receiving end of nightmare patients, this lady potentially was. It's not fun talking to a patient that is rude and accusatory and yelling and potentially recording you without your consent. It doesn't excuse the surgeons' behaviour, but previous interactions likely impacted the way they talked about her in what they believed was a private work conversation. I think most of the jokes would sound less offensive if seen in context of the operating room.

 

[hockeypuck]

You're entitled to disagree with point 1--but if we are talking prophylactic meds rather than a treatment dose, there are a multitude of options. Again, cross reactivity is exceedingly rare. If a person has a history of hives or rash, I give them the cephalosporin. If they have actual anaphylactic or significant allergic reaction, use an alt agent. It's not difficult.

Point 2? I guess I'm a saint then. Hell yes I've ranted about some of the more foolish, bigoted, insane patients I've dealt with, except not in their presence, and not when they are under anesthesia. Just as we are taught to always assume the patient is infectious (i.e., wash your hands) also always assume the patient can hear you.

How the surgeon in the OP determined whether the penicillin reaction the patient suffered was insignificant or significant, we're not privy to.

Regarding point 2, I just bolded the interesting juxaposition of your statements. How come you're not assuming the colleague you're speaking to actually personally knows the patient you're ranting about? I've seen that occur more than once. Talk about egg on the face. We take that risk when we rant about patients. I'll take that risk when I disparage a patient and curse the high heavens while I struggle to control torrential rectal arterial bleeding and spending an entire blood bank's worth of massive transfusion protocol at 3 AM because some guy and his wife thought it would be a good idea to stick an incandescent lightbulb up his ass as part of sexual play.

I'm not sure why ranting about a patient under general anesthesia is indefensible (not a good idea, I of course admit), but ranting to a colleague who may personally know the patient (as a friend, family member!) is safe to you.

 

[Nivash]

ITT: Distinguishing the doctors who are surgeons versus physicians/mid-levels/MS who don't routinely deal with antibiotic prophylaxis in surgical patients.

Ha, was thinking the same thing because I'm guilty as charged on that one, I'm still 6 weeks from my med school graduation. Respect to the people who know it off the top of their heads.

 

[m0dus]

How the surgeon in the OP determined whether the penicillin reaction the patient suffered was insignificant or significant, we're not privy to.

Regarding point 2, I just bolded the interesting juxaposition of your statements. How come you're not assuming the colleague you're speaking to actually personally knows the patient you're ranting about? I've seen that occur more than once. Talk about egg on the face. We take that risk when we rant about patients. I'll take that risk when I disparage a patient and curse the high heavens while I struggle to control torrential rectal arterial bleeding and spending an entire blood bank's worth of massive transfusion protocol at 3 AM because some guy and his wife thought it would be a good idea to stick an incandescent lightbulb up his ass as part of sexual play.

I'm not sure why ranting about a patient under general anesthesia is indefensible (not a good idea, I of course admit), but ranting to a colleague who may personally know the patient (as a friend, family member!) is safe to you.

The hypothetical scenario to which you speak is probably rarer than cephalosporin / pcn cross reactivity. And honestly, as a family member, they're probably more critical of them if their loved one's stupidity put them in the hospital in the first place.

As physicians we are expected not to make fun of patients as a rule, but we are all human and there are limits to what we can tolerate. Doing it in the patients presence will always be riskier than doing it in the doc lounge. They are NOT equivalent.

 

[gwarm01]

This is the exact mentality of my employer.

In today's litigious society, no point taking the risk. Or as stated earlier, just take a 5th gen instead of Ancef; has an even lower probability of cross reaction.

Man, if I would have let a surgeon use ceftaroline for prophylaxis at my last job I'm pretty sure I'd have been fired for incompetence.

I've been plenty comfortable using cephalosporins in patients with penicillin allergies before. The cross-reactivity was greatly overestimated before, but this idea just never seems to go away.

Surgeons can say very inappropriate things sometimes. However, I think a lot of the quotes here are taken out of context and they managed her antibiotics correctly, despite what the patient and article claim. I've seen plenty of anaesthetists manage "penicillin rash allergy" the same way. She did not have anaphylaxis and they monitored her closely.

It's frustrating when lay people bring medical issues to the media. It can create a frenzy over nothing. Don't presume to know more about medicine than your doctor, people! Google searches on your cellphone are not equivalent to years of formal training and experience.

 

[Mushroomer25]

The joking seems fine, dismissing an allergy does not.

 

[KibblesBits]

Really don't like the flippant comments about it being just jokes in this thread. Really not appreciated.

Makes me look at the medical profession with an even more critical eye.

 

[hockeypuck]

The hypothetical scenario to which you speak is probably rarer than cephalosporin / pcn cross reactivity. And honestly, as a family member, they're probably more critical of them if their loved one's stupidity put them in the hospital in the first place. We're not supposed to do that as a rule, but there are degrees. Doing it in the patients presence will always be riskier than doing it in the doc lounge. They are NOT equivalent.

That's your experience and I will argue that this tells me more of your working environment, possibly in a larger city with hundreds of thousands of people where the hospital system is NOT the biggest employer of the city. I've worked in both large cities and in rural communities and the likelihood of a physician personally knowing the patient is so much higher in the latter that it took me by surprise.

The statement I bolded seems to suggest that it's okay to disparage a patient in front of a family member who also happens to be your coworker.

Edit: And the hypothetical scenario can work both ways, whether it's being conscious under general anesthesia or a fellow doc in the lounge knowing who you're ranting about. Both rarer than cephalosporin / pcn cross reactivity.

 

[King Tubby]

Really don't like the flippant comments about it being just jokes in this thread. Really not appreciated.

Makes me look at the medical profession with an even more critical eye.

If the surgeons/doctors are creating a poor work environment for minorities or treating their minority patients less carefully or effectively than they do other patients, then it's certainly a problem and jokes like these can be indicative of a pattern and should be used against them. If they're just jokes then I don't see what the issue is. Let them say whatever the fuck they like amongst themselves as long as they get the job done.

 

[m0dus]

That's your experience and I will argue that this tells me more of your working environment, possibly in a larger city with hundreds of thousands of people where the hospital system is NOT the biggest employer of the city. I've worked in both large cities and in rural communities and the likelihood of a physician personally knowing the patient is so much higher in the latter that it took me by surprise.

The statement I bolded seems to suggest that it's okay to disparage a patient in front of a family member who also happens to be your coworker.
.

Don't be obtuse in assuming I'm suggesting anything is "ok". You know full well that was not the point of the statement. In fact, read the very next line if the point isn't crystal clear- it's never a good idea, but it happens. Doing it in the patient's presence is the riskier behavior. Period.

 

[poppabk]

Really don't like the flippant comments about it being just jokes in this thread. Really not appreciated.

Makes me look at the medical profession with an even more critical eye.

There is practically nothing there that is unequivocally bad, except the Bill Cosby line which is interjected by some unknown party.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Don't be obtuse in assuming I'm suggesting anything is "ok". You know full well that was not the point of the statement. In fact, read the very next line if the point isn't crystal clear- it's never a good idea, but it happens. Doing it in the patient's presence is the riskier behavior. Period.

Holy crap m0dus, you're a doctor AND games developer?!? Where do you find the time lol?

 

[hockeypuck]

...it's never a good idea, but it happens. Doing it in the patient's presence is the riskier behavior. Period.

I'm not arguing that talking in the OR is less or more risky than in a doc's lounge, even I know that. Where you and I differ is believing how much riskier it is and our own comfort levels. Everyone who has worked in the OR for a long time is comfortable chiding the patient's poor choice in late night activities while he's under general anesthesia. I think you overestimate that risk relative to just talking about it in the doc's lounge, even with this news story coming out. Should this OR culture change for the better? Of course, but all hospital culture should change, doc's lounge included. Don't just single the OR out.

 

[m0dus]

I'm not arguing that talking in the OR is less riskier than in a doc's lounge, even I know that. Where you and I differ is how much riskier it is and our own comfort levels. Everyone who has worked in the OR for a long time is comfortable chiding the patient's poor choice in late night activities while he's under general anesthesia. I think you overestimate that risk relative to just talking about it in the doc's lounge, even with this news story coming out. Should this OR culture change for the better? Of course, but all hospital culture should change, doc's lounge included. Don't just single the OR out.

No dude. It's not an issue of comfort levels--I'm stating that editorializing a patient's behavior or making fun of them aloud in the hospital is risky PERIOD--edit: and its riskier to do so in their presence, even if you assume they're out.

But, as many people here have pointed out it happens. If it does, it's best to assume you will be heard. Don't mistake my assertion that we as human beings will make that error as some sort of veiled approval of it. And I'm not singling out anyone--OR, wards, break room, office, doc lounge, waiting area or otherwise.

 

[hockeypuck]

No dude. It's not an issue of comfort levels--I'm stating that editorializing a patient's behavior aloud is risky PERIOD.

But, as many people here have pointed out it happens. If it does, it's best to assume you will be heard. Don't mistake my assertion that we as human beings will make that error as some sort of veiled approval of it. And I'm not singling out anyone--OR, doc lounge, waiting area or otherwise.

That's not how I interpreted your original statement.

Couple things.
2) I don't care if you think a person is snowed, or if the person is a righteous asshole-- you never, never, ever snipe at someone under anesthesia. Crack as many stupid jokes as you like, of course, but it's best to leave the patient out of them. It's not only tastless, that person, whomever they are, is depending on you, and for even a minor procedure has put their life in your hands.

If you didn't include "under anesthesia," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[m0dus]

That's not how I interpreted your original statement.



If you didn't include "under anesthesia," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Then that's on you mate. You picked a really weird qualifier there --and it definitely doesn't imply "but anywhere else is A-OK!"

 

[afreaknamedpete]

There's alot of disagreement in this thread between docs who essentially agree. The surgeon acted inappropriately by disparaging the patient under GA but it's hardly something he should be punished for. Patients are insulted behind closed doors almost as a matter of routine, maybe many people are upset at that implication but there's no way to legislate against gossip and if you fired everyone who has insulted patients behind closed doors the only doctors left would be pathologists. Extend that to customer service jobs and everyone will get fired. The surgeon probably learned a good lesson here that being under GA is not the same as being behind closed doors. Sneak a hidden recorder on doctors, politicians, hell probably priests and I'm sure you'll hear some head turning things.

 

[Suite Pee]

I was semi-conscious in the middle of a colonoscopy. Luckily, it didn't last long and they didn't say anything juicy.

Anyway, let's not forget the person this story is centered on claims that their comments about her being "Precious" (note the capitalization) were most likely related to the story about an obese and illiterate young black woman. That's inappropriate no matter what the situation.

 

[psynergylover]

People make jokes. It's a copping thing

Did you even read the article?

OT: Also that's some messed up shit, she showed more class than the doctor as she didn't take that hospital/Doctor to court, which she probably would've won something.

That part with "Everyone has phones these days" was simply delightful to hear, that sweet foreshadowing/ irony

 

[hockeypuck]

There's alot of disagreement in this thread between docs who essentially agree. The surgeon acted inappropriately by disparaging the patient under GA but it's hardly something he should be punished for. Patients are insulted behind closed doors almost as a matter of routine, maybe many people are upset at that implication but there's no way to legislate against gossip and if you fired everyone who has insulted patients behind closed doors the only doctors left would be pathologists. Extend that to customer service jobs and everyone will get fired. The surgeon probably learned a good lesson here that being under GA is not the same as being behind closed doors. Sneak a hidden recorder on doctors, politicians, hell probably priests and I'm sure you'll hear some head turning things.

Fair assessment. But don't protect pathologists. I've heard plenty of pathologists make fun of the patient while we look at a frozen specimen together. You can learn a lot just from looking at the gross or the single microscopy slice.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I was semi-conscious in the middle of a colonoscopy. Luckily, it didn't last long and they didn't say anything juicy.

Anyway, let's not forget the person this story is centered on claims that their comments about her being "Precious" (note the capitalization) were most likely related to the story about an obese and illiterate young black woman. That's inappropriate no matter what the situation.

Capitalization isn't present in a spoken quote. Someone other than the speaker of that quote decided to capitalize that letter. And the quote doesn't clearly refer to the patient.

 

[Tarkus]

I was semi-conscious in the middle of a colonoscopy. Luckily, it didn't last long and they didn't say anything juicy.

Anyway, let's not forget the person this story is centered on claims that their comments about her being "Precious" (note the capitalization) were most likely related to the story about an obese and illiterate young black woman. That's inappropriate no matter what the situation.

To be fair, I've heard high maintenance people called "precious" a lot and not in the context of racism.

 

[m0dus]

Fair assessment. But don't protect pathologists. I've heard plenty of pathologists make fun of the patient while we look at a frozen specimen together. You can learn a lot just from looking at the gross or the single microscopy slice.

That's fucked up - but most of the pathos I've worked with were nice people. Just not, you know, people persons.

 

[Suite Pee]

Capitalization isn't present in a spoken quote. Someone other than the speaker of that quote decided to capitalize that letter. And the quote doesn't clearly refer to the patient.

To be fair, I've heard high maintenance people called "precious" a lot and not in the context of racism.

Yeah, it's hard to say for sure, but it isn't a good look.

 

[hockeypuck]

That's fucked up - but most of the pathos I've worked with were nice people. Just not, you know, people persons.

I may or may have not goaded them along when giving the one-liner.

 

[m0dus]

Holy crap m0dus, you're a doctor AND games developer?!? Where do you find the time lol?

It's a parasitic relationship. One pays the bills, one creates the bills; one elevates the soul, the other crushes it.

(Guess.)

 

[Calamari41]

I wonder if they actually molested her or if they just made the absolutely hilarious joke suggesting that maybe they should.

 

[Kin5290]

I wonder if they actually molested her or if they just made the absolutely hilarious joke suggesting that maybe they should.

There's nothing that suggests that the "touching" was remotely sexual in nature, considering that these doctors were performing surgery on her at the time.

 

[Calamari41]

There's nothing that suggests that the "touching" was remotely sexual in nature, considering that these doctors were performing surgery on her at the time.

I thought the same thing until the Bill Cosby reference. Its addition seems out of place otherwise.

 

[SolidusDave]

I'm not sure why anything they talk among themselves would be considered a problem.
It's not like you're throwing insults in someone's face, it's essentially talking behind someone's back. Which I'm sure NO one has ever done, no. Or cracking horrible dark jokes among your colleagues/friends, nope.

This isn't me defending their behavior though. It can be inconsiderate - but for a different reason that probably most here are outraged about. Talking like that, you would have to be sure that all your colleagues are similar minded as some would likely think it's unprofessional or are not comfortable with dark/obscene humor.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I thought the same thing until the Bill Cosby reference. Its addition seems out of place otherwise.

The Cosby reference was by a different physician than the one who made the touching comment, correct? Hell it could just be a recognition that the touching comment could be taken out of context.

 

[Kralamoonard]

It's a parasitic relationship. One pays the bills, one creates the bills; one elevates the soul, the other crushes it.

(Guess.)

Heh, I have to admire your dedication that's for sure

But that's why I myself have applied to medical school -- thank God I got an offer and the interview stage is over -- now it's just to get the grade requirements in the exams I'm sitting next month!

Spoiler

(The first description is being a doctor ofc)

 

[Calamari41]

The Cosby reference was by a different physician than the one who made the touching comment, correct? Hell it could just be a recognition that the touching comment could be taken out of context.

All it says is "someone" interjected with it. I don't know what happened or what they meant, either. That's why I said "I wonder" to start off my post.

All I know is that if it were my wife, I probably wouldn't brush it off.

 

[Zoe]

I wonder if they actually molested her or if they just made the absolutely hilarious joke suggesting that maybe they should.

The "touching" was pointed out on the previous page:

We're only getting parts of quotes here, and the stuff you think making it "fairly damning" aren't even actual quotes. The question was "do you want me to touch her" followed by "I can touch her". To give you some context, "touch" often refers to the use of electrocautery in the OR.

 

[Calamari41]

The "touching" was pointed out on the previous page:

Thanks, I missed that. Weird place for a Cosby joke.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Thanks, I missed that. Weird place for a Cosby joke.

If the touching reference was actually innocent (I don't think we know either way still) then the Cosby joke illustrates my main problem with this thread and the underlying accusations by the patient. We are all making a bunch of assumptions based on an audio recording. We cannot see any of the actions or movements by the speakers during the surgery and thus are missing a great deal of context when trying to guess as to the intent behind the words. Even more than that, the particular language used by these specific physicians in this specific hospital is something most of us have no context for whatsoever, given that we have not gone through medical school and have not worked as a surgeon. Which again means we are possibly missing context such as an innocent explanation for "touch."

 

[Darryl M R]

Interesting read.

On the topic of his jokes: I'm formally educated in Health Care Management [and Policy] and saying "well it is a high stress environment so they can crack any joke they want" isn't an acceptable response; and it is the reason why recent graduates still wet behind the ears get hired by hospitals to change the culture of departments. It is simply not acceptable and rude. Numbers and recruitment don't lie, this guy can keep on making jokes like that and hospitals will keep on paying 70k+ for people to come in and weed these individuals out. Subtle racism of other is job security for some. Sounds like more of a situation of an investigation on the surgeon before writing him completely off as an ass.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

Care to elaborate, please?
Besides , 90% of med students actually graduate "at the top of their class" , it's not like arts or philosophy (at least in london and milan). And even if it wasn't (in your country), it wouldn't mean they are incompetent.

Well, see the rest of the post.
I didn't mean it was a general case - I live in a small town, we're not going to get the best of the best either way.
Pretty much everyone now goes to the nearest big city to get treatment for major things instead because the doctors at our hospital simply cannot be trusted.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

I got stabbed in the bile duct during an operation, and ended up in the hospital for a total of 10 days. The surgeon who sealed the hole chuckled and was like "you were gushing a lot. It was quite impressive". At first I thought it was funny, but the more I thought about it I was like "wtf, I almost died...."

They saved my life though so that was cool. The lady who stabbed me was also there when they were fixing me, and looked super remorseful and stressed out about it, so I couldn't be that mad about it.

I also woke up with half of my pubes shaved off. I hope they weren't talking mad shit about my little ding dong. One of those surgeons was pretty hot. Thing probably looked like a toe. That wasn't my final form goddamnit.

 

[KibblesBits]

If the surgeons/doctors are creating a poor work environment for minorities or treating their minority patients less carefully or effectively than they do other patients, then it's certainly a problem and jokes like these can be indicative of a pattern and should be used against them. If they're just jokes then I don't see what the issue is. Let them say whatever the fuck they like amongst themselves as long as they get the job done.

There is practically nothing there that is unequivocally bad, except the Bill Cosby line which is interjected by some unknown party.

The bad thing is doing this in the presence of the patient. You cure the patient, not the illness. You heal, you don't harm. If a medical worker needs to spout off in front of their charges be them sedated or not they are DOING IT WRONG and it needs to be addressed.

Stop skirting around the real issue and hand waving it off as method does not adequately support the result here. And yes, personally I'd rather be dead on a table than disrespected by a person who I am PAYING to heal me.

 

[poppabk]

The bad thing is doing this in the presence of the patient. You cure the patient, not the illness. You heal, you don't harm. If a medical worker needs to spout off in front of their charges be them sedated or not they are DOING IT WRONG and it needs to be addressed.

Stop skirting around the real issue and hand waving it off as method does not adequately support the result here. And yes, personally I'd rather be dead on a table than disrespected by a person who I am PAYING to heal me.

No-one spouted off though. It's quite possible that the Bill Cosby line was just someone making some poor innuendo based on how the exchange sounded. In that case it's not directed at the patient. Read what was said about that other patient who won his claim, that was downright derogatory and legally defamatory. Nothing here is obviously derogatory towards the patient, unless the precious was indeed directed at her and was intended as a reference to the movie.
As for your last statement - that is just crazy.

 

[afreaknamedpete]

I also woke up with half of my pubes shaved off. I hope they weren't talking mad shit about my little ding dong. One of those surgeons was pretty hot. Thing probably looked like a toe. That wasn't my final form goddamnit.

I'm not sure why they had to shave your pubic hair for a bile duct operation. And you could always get a penile implant, for those rare circumstances when you need to be erect but are too unconscious too get it up

Spoiler

j/k, in case it needs to be said

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