Support NeoGAF

[bman94]

I always hear on NeoGAF and a ton of other gaming circles that the Wii U was underpowered and that the hardware wasn't good enough for 3rd parties to develop for. Only recently has the hardware made a huge difference because there's no reason why any of these titles couldn't have been playable on the Wii U:
2013:
DmC: Devil May Cry
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3
Tomb Raider
BioShock Infinite
Metro: Last Light
Grid 2
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Legendary Edition
Saints Row IV
Madden NFL 25
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate
Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition
Grand Theft Auto V
2014:
Thief
South Park: The Stick of Truth
Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes
Wolfenstein: The New Order
Grid Autosport
Ultra Street Fighter IV
Destiny
Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax
Alien: Isolation
Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel
Assassin's Creed Rogue
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
2015:
Resident Evil: Remastered
Saints Row: Gat out of Hell
Life Is Strange
Dragon Ball Xenoverse
Resident Evil: Revelations 2
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Call of Duty: Black Ops III

Not to mention the various annual sports titles that missed the system almost completely like FIFA, Madden & 2K. The excuse that "these series hasn't been on Nintendo platforms before" can be seen as positives for them to be released on Nintendo systems. Dead or Alive, Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil, Call of Duty, Dragon Ball Z, Metal Gear Solid, Street Fighter were all series that had key games on Nintendo consoles and handhelds. Publisher's could have tried to grow the fanbase that was established on earlier Nintendo consoles with these series and help that Nintendo fanbase for those series grow.

On top of that games like Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Legendary Edition, Ultra Street Fighter IV, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax were all the "complete" versions of those respected series so it would have made logical sense to market to a demographic that could easily jump into the series and perhaps purchase newer games in the future.

Some 3rd party publishers outright screwed Nintendo over (Ubisoft, Sega, EA) when it came to the Wii U causing great disparity between Nintendo and other 3rd party publishers. What if Ubisoft keep true to their porting decisions by holding the release of Watch Dogs until the Wii U version was finished like they had held the Wii U version of Rayman Legends until the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 version were finished. For that matter what if Rayman Legends stayed an exclusive? What if Sega didn't do the bare minimal for the 3 Sonic game deal and actually produce new Sonic games and not slap a game that was never attended for the system (Sonic Boom) and a game they were going to develop for Nintendo regardless of a deal (Sonic & Mario at the Olympic Games). What if EA published the Mass Effect Trilogy on Wii U rather than JUST Mass Effect 3.

Instead from some of the same publishers of the games above low quality, low effort software was ported to the Wii U rather than their big core franchises like: The Amazing Spider-Man, Hot Wheels: World's Best Driver, Wipeout: Create & Crash, SpongeBob SquarePants: Plankton's Robotic Revenge, Cabela's Big Game Hunter: Pro Hunts, Transformers: Rise of the Dark Spark, Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures, The Peanuts Movie: Snoopy's Grand Adventure. A bunch of these titles were no more than quick cash grabs while the big AAA titles went to Sony, Microsoft and PC. The hardware was competent enough to handle a large number of titles so the Wii U being "underpowered" never should have been an excuse to begin with. At this point I'd just want publishers to be up front and say "We don't support Nintendo consoles because XYZ" instead of talking around the issues saying crap like "We'll see if the platform makes sense" or "Wii U version is always a possibility".

tl;dr Hardware wasn't an issue for a lot of titles for the Wii U, the 3rd parties were.

 

[TheFurizzlyBear]

The money investment in to a lack of audience was more likely the reason.

 

[shinobi602]

You're right.

The amount of people that own the thing and buy 3rd party games matters.

 

[ant_]

I think third parties didn't develop for the Wii U because the sales were not there. Has nothing to do with system power.

Spoiler

businesses care about money

 

[Dougieflesh]

Nobody buying non Nintendo games is a good reason though.

 

[aBarreras]

i love the wii u, but the investment wont be returned with a user base so low

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Well, it's never really been about power. It's always been about install base (or potential install base).

There's a reason third parties supported Wii in a big way, even going so far as to create exclusive games for the console (Dead Space Extraction, House of the Dead Overkill, No More Heroes, etc.) or even creating lesser versions of multiplats specifically for the system (like Dead Rising: Chop 'Til You Drop or Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Reflex).

If publishers had felt that Wii U was a viable platform for them, they would have ported games over to it. Simple as that.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Why pour your resources into something no one bought?

 

[Starzonedge]

I thought it had more to do with Nintendo being difficult to work with (e.g., poor communication via email) than the specs of the machine.

 

[Richie]

Well yeah, look at the PS2, DS, Wii...If you build it they will come. Thing is, Nintendo really dropped the ball building it for the Wii U.

Could have been just a rumor, but I recall reading that Ubisoft had a contract with Nintendo that allowed them to break the exclusivity deal if X number of consoles weren't sold by Y date.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

I think the problem might've been not necessarily power itself, but how easy it was to port to. There would've been pressure to utilize the gamepad and that's probably not something all devs were interested. It was in the weird conundrum of allegedly being a machine that third-parties could flock to, but also having a weird gimmick none of the other development platforms do, making it a pain to take into account.

 

[James Scott]

It's that the system required extra work to port and it sold poorly due to it being so expensive (it's still $300) due to the tech it used.
Combination of things, but power isn't the biggest factor for lack of support.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Ask Ubisoft if it was worth the effort.

Short answer: no

Long answer: fuck noooooooooo

 

[nib95]

It's not just about power, it's about whether the added time and cost of development is worth the additional sales. Obviously to many publishers the software sales of the said games weren't enough to justify the development time and costs. Not only is the Wii U pretty lacklustre in terms of hardware performance, but from what I've read it's fairly complicated to develop for, and has some less than ideal architectural differences.

 

[botty]

Grand Theft Auto really doesn't fit in next to the twenty or so Mario games that release on Nintendo consoles. No the same audience, not the same content. Maybe Nintendo should shovel over some money to co-develop a Nintendo Esque GTA game.....

 

[Takao]

Oh, the hardware was definitely an issue. Not just its lack of sales or lower ability compared to PS4/XB1, either. Most developers were already busy juggling three very different pieces of hardware by its launch, so an unproven fourth was just too much to ask for. Especially a fourth with a weird gimmick controller and an audience that seemed to be largely uninterested in traditional AAA games.

Spoiler

Atlus didn't even port Persona 4 Ultimax to Vita. Why do you think they'd port it to Wii U?

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

You're right.

The amount of people that own the thing and buy 3rd party games matters.

. Thanks shi for posting what I was about to post.

 

[clem84]

It's not that the WiiU wasn't powerful enough, it's that the power difference between WiiU and PS4/X1 being somewhat significant, devs had to create a completely new set of assets for the WiiU version, which given usual modest sales on Nintendo consoles, made those projects non financially viable.

 

[Palette Swap]

Of course this wasn't the main issue.

But putting the onus on publishers to accommodate a platform holder is a bit weird when everything else being equal, the other platform holders don't seem to have the same issues.

 

[Zombie James]

Power was just one of the reasons, not the reason.

 

[Mr-Joker]

Honestly you raise up a good point.

Take the Wii U version of Mass effect 3 not long after that was announced EA announced Mass Effect collection which contain 1-3 and was released at a lower price compare to the Wii U version.

3rd party didn't even bother trying engaging with the Nintendo fan base.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

This is what I've always said in regards to Nintendo and third-party software:

The Gamecube was more or less on-par powerwise with its competition, but third parties bailed around the third year of its lifespan because of its limited audience.

The Wii was an explosion out of the gate and garnered one of the largest software-buying audiences ever, but didn't match the power of its competition. Third parties were on the Wii, but it didn't get any major franchises that the other platforms did.

Now the Wii U is neither on the same power level of its competition nor does it have a significant audience...no third party in their right mind would bother with the system. And that's how we are where we are today.

 

[Richie]

Grand Theft Auto really doesn't fit in next to the twenty or so Mario games that release on Nintendo consoles. No the same audience, not the same content. Maybe Nintendo should shovel over some money to co-develop a Nintendo Esque GTA game.....

Was amazing. Last I heard it sold well, too. Would love a NX sequel.

 

[sixteen-bit]

You're right.

The amount of people that own the thing and buy 3rd party games matters.

pretty much, and since the architecture is so different from PS4/X1, a non-trivial amount of resources would be necessary.

 

[Gestault]

It's a question of market. Sometimes if a platform is particularly interesting or streamlined, it can get more projects than it might otherwise. But unfortunately, the Wii U basically had the worst of both worlds.

That said, it still manages a solid selection of titles.

 

[Anarky]

It's not that the WiiU wasn't powerful enough, it's that the power difference between WiiU and PS4/X1 being somewhat significant, Devs had to create a completely new set of assets for the WiiU version, which given usual modest sales on Nintendo consoles, made those projects non financially viable.

Basically this.

 

[JamesAR15]

All about the install base. Regardless of the hardware if the install base was large enough you can bet your ass those 3rd parties would have ported to Wii U.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Eh. It's Nintendos responsibility to drive marketshare and make it attractive to third parties. With the tepid Wii U response from the start, plus the second class treatment they give most third parties, this was just what they had coming.

Also, even with low marketshare, it may have gotten more games if the power and architectural difference was small from the other two, like PS4 to XBO small, then devs could have just reused most of the game and given it some throw away ports at least. But no, this was something whose power position was debate within the 7th gen, not 8th.


I really hope that changes with NX, but there are so many facets of the equation they need to improve.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

There is no reason to own a Wii U if you don't like Nintendo games.

 

[MilkyJoe]

First and second post.

The risk reward balance for the publisher was too great.


People just want a Nintendo console with a normal controller as the primary controller. I know a ton of people that would buy one at the drop of a hat, but Ninty refused to sell the thing without the tablet controller, and I wager a good many here feel the same. See MS Kinect...

 

[Experien]

Why pour your resources into something no one bought?

I think there was a lack of support because 3rd party companies give it as much respect. It was all an afterthought. All the ports were way late. Of course they are going to sell poorly to anyone with multiplatforms at home unless they are released at the same time.

Example, I bought A:Colonial Marines on PS3. Had it came out (at all) day one on Wii U with the features they were claiming to have, I could've been swayed.

 

[mikefrails]

But it takes too much innovative thinking to come up with something to show on the gamepad's screen. Their hands were tied!

 

[Sapiens]

Lol yeah it's a conspiracy.

Sorry, but if Nintendo treats their customers the same way they treat their third parties, then I think we all know whom to blame here.

 

[Kouriozan]

Power wasn't a problem, well appart from not supporting Unreal Engine 4.
It's just that the Wii U audience 3rd parties wanted wasn't here, there is a reason why Ubisoft bailed out.

 

[Nirolak]

Yep, demographics tend to be a huge issue, as do corporate relationships and tailoring your platform to what third parties want.

The trick is to recognize that third parties run the industry and roll out the red carpet.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Grand Theft Auto really doesn't fit in next to the twenty or so Mario games that release on Nintendo consoles. No the same audience, not the same content. Maybe Nintendo should shovel over some money to co-develop a Nintendo Esque GTA game.....

It was called Lego city undercover, and the game was(is) one of the better games on Wii u

 

[Kysen]

There is no reason to own a Wii U if you don't like Nintendo games.

Bayonetta 2 pretty much the only reason I bought it.

 

[Kalopsia]

there's no reason why any of these titles couldn't have been playable on the Wii U:

I'm sure it was a massive conspiracy dedicated to killing yr fav and not a result of technical issues, lack of funding for ports to a console nobody bought, or temperamental hardware that barely conformed to the standards set last gen or the shifting priorities to a unified x86 console environment this gen.

 

[DR2K]

Why pour your resources into something no one bought?

Because no one bought it because of the lack of resources.

Nintendo has plenty of money, they could have worked bigger and better deals. They didn't.

 

[Valkyr1983]

I always hear on NeoGAF and a ton of other gaming circles that the Wii U was underpowered and that the hardware wasn't good enough for 3rd parties to develop for. Only recently has the hardware made a huge difference because there's no reason why any of these titles couldn't have been playable on the Wii U:
2013:
DmC: Devil May Cry
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3
Tomb Raider
BioShock Infinite
Metro: Last Light
Grid 2
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Legendary Edition
Saints Row IV
Madden NFL 25
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate
Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition
Grand Theft Auto V
2014:
Thief
South Park: The Stick of Truth
Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes
Wolfenstein: The New Order
Grid Autosport
Ultra Street Fighter IV
Destiny
Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Revolution
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax
Alien: Isolation
Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel
Assassin's Creed Rogue
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
2015:
Resident Evil: Remastered
Saints Row: Gat out of Hell
Life Is Strange
Dragon Ball Xenoverse
Resident Evil: Revelations 2
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Call of Duty: Black Ops III

Not to mention the various annual sports titles that missed the system almost completely like FIFA, Madden & 2K. The excuse that "these series hasn't been on Nintendo platforms before" can be seen as positives for them to be released on Nintendo systems. Dead or Alive, Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil, Call of Duty, Dragon Ball Z, Metal Gear Solid, Street Fighter were all series that had key games on Nintendo consoles and handhelds. Publisher's could have tried to grow the fanbase that was established on earlier Nintendo consoles with these series and help that Nintendo fanbase for those series grow.

On top of that games like Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Legendary Edition, Ultra Street Fighter IV, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax were all the "complete" versions of those respected series so it would have made logical sense to market to a demographic that could easily jump into the series and perhaps purchase newer games in the future.

Some 3rd party publishers outright screwed Nintendo over (Ubisoft, Sega, EA) when it came to the Wii U causing great disparity between Nintendo and other 3rd party publishers. What if Ubisoft keep true to their porting decisions by holding the release of Watch Dogs until the Wii U version was finished like they had held the Wii U version of Rayman Legends until the Xbox 360/Playstation 3 version were finished. For that matter what if Rayman Legends stayed an exclusive? What if Sega didn't do the bare minimal for the 3 Sonic game deal and actually produce new Sonic games and not slap a game that was never attended for the system (Sonic Boom) and a game they were going to develop for Nintendo regardless of a deal (Sonic & Mario at the Olympic Games). What if EA published the Mass Effect Trilogy on Wii U rather than JUST Mass Effect 3.

Instead from some of the same publishers of the games above low quality, low effort software was ported to the Wii U rather than their big core franchises like: The Amazing Spider-Man, Hot Wheels: World's Best Driver, Wipeout: Create & Crash, SpongeBob SquarePants: Plankton's Robotic Revenge, Cabela's Big Game Hunter: Pro Hunts, Transformers: Rise of the Dark Spark, Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures, The Peanuts Movie: Snoopy's Grand Adventure. A bunch of these titles were no more than quick cash grabs while the big AAA titles went to Sony, Microsoft and PC. The hardware was competent enough to handle a large number of titles so the Wii U being "underpowered" never should have been an excuse to begin with. At this point I'd just want publishers to be up front and say "We don't support Nintendo consoles because XYZ" instead of talking around the issues saying crap like "We'll see if the platform makes sense" or "Wii U version is always a possibility".

tl;dr Hardware wasn't an issue for a lot of titles for the Wii U, the 3rd parties were.

Do they need an excuse?

Maybe some just don't care about Nintendo or the platform enough to invest and put in the effort

They don't owe Nintendo or it's buyers their games

 

[GhostTrick]

Power was never a reason. The reason though was the userbase for these games is already established elsewhere: PlayStation, Xbox and Steam.

 

[Trojita]

Some 3rd party publishers outright screwed Nintendo over (Ubisoft, Sega, EA) when it came to the Wii U causing great disparity between Nintendo and other 3rd party publishers.

OP, you might want to look into how Nintendo has treated 3rd Parties in the past.

On top of that games like Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Legendary Edition, Ultra Street Fighter IV, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax were all the "complete" versions of those respected series so it would have made logical sense to market to a demographic that could easily jump into the series and perhaps purchase newer games in the future.

Which future titles? The ones that weren't going to be on the Wii U to begin with?

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Also there's much more to a game being able to run on a particular platform than looking at it and thinking, "I think that would work."

 

[Instro]

The relative power is only part of the issue. The CPU was worse than the previous gen consoles and the SDK was awful for a long time. Both issues made porting significantly more difficult. It also can't be expected that devs will add an additional port to a system while they are in the middle, or nearing the end, of development.

Combine the hardware issues with poor hardware/software sales, on top of the historical issues of 3rd party sales in Nintendo do platforms and it's very easy to see why devs avoided the system.

Nintendo only have themselves to blame for the situation they are in. Going back to mismanagement that started and continued from the N64 era.

 

[RK128]

Power was a factor, as they would have to run the games on both the TV and GamePad screen, but you are right; the games you listed could have run on the Wii U given careful optimization.

The real reason why those titles never came to the Wii U was because third parties expressed little interest in supporting Nintendo, as they thought it was a waste of resources that could have went toward other platforms like the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 at the time.

It is a shame but Nintendo is to blame here; they created an environment where third party games do not sell and the same issue has been rearing its ugly head every since the N64 days. I honestly hope this is resolved with the NX but not holding my breath honestly.

 

[thefro]

Power was never a reason. The reason though was the userbase for these games is already established elsewhere: PlayStation, Xbox and Steam.

A more powerful console would be perceived by customers as a better value (i.e., more sales) and would have made 3rd party ports easier.

That wouldn't have fixed all the Wii U's issues, but that system would have performed better in the market than what we got.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Great thread.

IMO, hardware was mostly a cover up to hide the relationship issues Nintendo has with many third-parties or because many are very close to companies competing against them, turning them motivated to ignore Nintendo and they [Nintendo] simply don't give a shit about it.

Yes, Nintendo has fucked up badly for a very long time with third-parties. From Yamauchi to Iwata, they did everything wrong they could.

I hope with Kimishima they decide to change this once and for all.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

They didn't need power as an excuse.

How about that pathetic userbase size?

 

[GhostTrick]

A more powerful console would be perceived by customers as a better value (i.e., more sales) and would have made 3rd party ports easier.

That wouldn't have fixed all the Wii U's issues, but that system would have performed better in the market than what we got.

They didn't need power as an excuse.

How about that pathetic userbase size?

Wii U 3rd party support was bad even before it launched.
The problem isn't the size of the userbase, but the userbase for all these games being established elsewhere.

 

[Jawmuncher]

If MGSV had hit WiiU in any form, id have more fuel to add to my snake argument for smash.