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[TimeEffect]

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I'm almost certain they've gone on record saying that the Bedouin woman is playable in SP.

Playing as that bedouin woman is going to be a genuinely authentic glimpse of something that is usually glossed over... or something really lame as DICE try to make something "badass".

I hope they avoid trying to look cool for the sake of trying to write something that feels authentic. Maybe it was the out of place White Stripes reveal, but I dont trust DICE to do something that feels genuine. I really hope I'm wrong, and that the characters aren't typical FPS protagonists that say unlikely stupid army shit that we've come to see in modern and futuristic games.

They have a chance to represent some really interesting perspectives. Please do it well.

 

[GinoFelino]

The only way this could work balance-wise is swapping the heads of the soldiers with a female-looking one.

Hit-boxes and all needs to stay 100% the same, so changing the body builds/heights etc would not work.

But then we'd have women running around looking burly like men. There would be people unhappy about that as well.

Its not a problem for any shooter on the market except DICE and Battlefield for some reason.

Worked fine for DICE/Battlefront, so we know they can pull off that particular balancing act...

 

[Keasar]

One of the most famous women soldiers of WW1 was Milunka Savić, she joined the army pretending to be a man and was only discovered to be a woman when she was injured and taken to a hospital. After she was discovered she pleaded her case in front of her commanding officer and he allowed her to stay in the army and continue to fight.

I have little doubt about there being other women on the on the front lines.

But she disguised herself as a man, passed as a man and probably sounded like a younger man.

Basically, it's like they had a option that said "Male or Female?" and you could pick one, but you would play the same character anyway with no difference.

I have my doubts that would be enough.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I can't wait to hear the accuracy comments once Battlepacks are confirmed.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Please.... then when they get blown up in game there'll be outcry about violence on women.

If this ever was a defensible position, it's surely not any more now that women can serve in the U.S. Armed Forces in combat roles.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Playing as that bedouin woman is going to be a genuinely authentic glimpse of something that is usually glossed over... or something really lame as DICE try to make something "badass".

I hope they avoid trying to look cool for the sake of trying to write something that feels authentic. Maybe it was the out of place White Stripes reveal, but I dont trust DICE to do something that feels genuine. I really hope I'm wrong, and that the characters aren't typical FPS protagonists that say unlikely stupid army shit that we've come to see in modern and futuristic games.

They have a chance to represent some really interesting perspectives. Please do it well.

Given how the trailer ended with the horse charge on the armored train, I bet that's going to be sort of a segue to the SP content that'll be shown off at the MS Conference in about an hour.

My bet honestly would be to to not expect any substantial commentary on the Arab Revolt, but more "Hey look at this badass Bedouin warrior lady!" Which I think is cool in its own right, but I think the SP will be more of a 'tone' piece as opposed to having concrete plot threads.

 

[Jobbs]

But violence against women!

This thread is bringing out some quality posts

 

[Sylas]

I've always wondered--why is historical accuracy even important? Are your soldiers gonna get trench-foot? Camp out in trenches for days, if not weeks, at a time?

It's always struck me as weird to make gameplay caveats but not story-related ones if you want "historical accuracy." You're already losing a massive chunk of what made the conflict what it was in the first place.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

I'm a little surprised no one has put in the info from a former DICE employee about this.

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117056879943681

The original conception totally had women soldiers in multiplayer. Someone had that element removed along the way, and the ultimate reason given was "boys don't find that realistic". This in a game where tanks are prevalent and don't require a crew of 8 to steer the thing and fire the 1 gun. Hell, just look at the concept. It's a World War 1 game that doesn't remotely resemble actual WW1. For that, you'd have to look at something like Verdun, which is nothing like Battlefield-style gameplay.

WW1 Battlefield means you're throwing realism out of the window from the bare concept, so it's an exceptionally poor excuse for why you're not doing women soldiers.

 

[Neuromancer]

Good for them sticking to their guns and not giving in to public pressure for inclusion at the expense of authenticity and realism.

Meanwhile, everyone knows soldiers in WW1 had futuristic heads up displays telling them where the nearest capture point was and they got 120 points for hitting an enemy with a bayonet.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I've always wondered--why is historical accuracy even important? Are your soldiers gonna get trench-foot? Camp out in trenches for days, if not weeks, at a time?

It's always struck me as weird to make gameplay caveats but not story-related ones if you want "historical accuracy." You're already losing a massive chunk of what made the conflict what it was in the first place.

It's just used as a way to preserve the status quo. Nobody is going to Battlefield 1 to educate themselves about WW1, and if they did they would get a lot of misinformation as evidenced by many of the posts in this thread.

It's a very weak defence.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Because that happened with

Battlefront
Titanfall
Call of Duty
Overwatch

???

Such a stupid post.

Battlefront and Overwatch don't have blood and gore but your point still stands.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

I'm a little surprised no one has put in the info from a former DICE employee about this.

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117056879943681

The original conception totally had women soldiers in multiplayer. Someone had that element removed along the way, and the ultimate reason given was "boys don't find that realistic". This in a game where tanks are prevalent and don't require a crew of 8 to steer the thing and fire the 1 gun. Hell, just look at the concept. It's a World War 1 game that doesn't remotely resemble actual WW1. For that, you'd have to look at something like Verdun, which is nothing like Battlefield-style gameplay.

WW1 Battlefield means you're throwing realism out of the window from the bare concept, so it's an exceptionally poor excuse for why you're not doing women soldiers.

The fuck...

 

[Anton Sugar]

Please.... then when they get blown up in game there'll be outcry about violence on women.

But violence against women!

Try harder.

Because that happened with

Battlefront
Titanfall
Call of Duty
Overwatch

???

Such a stupid post.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

It's just used as a way to preserve the status quo. Nobody is going to Battlefield 1 to educate themselves about WW1, and if they did they would get a lot of misinformation as evidenced by many of the posts in this thread.

It's a very weak defence.

I think it's a weak defense if you're claiming a game need to be all Male; but in this case I feel it's perfectly valid to have a sort of verisimilitude be one of their priorities.

 

[GinoFelino]

I'm a little surprised no one has put in the info from a former DICE employee about this.

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117056879943681

The original conception totally had women soldiers in multiplayer. Someone had that element removed along the way, and the ultimate reason given was "boys don't find that realistic". This in a game where tanks are prevalent and don't require a crew of 8 to steer the thing and fire the 1 gun. Hell, just look at the concept. It's a World War 1 game that doesn't remotely resemble actual WW1. For that, you'd have to look at something like Verdun, which is nothing like Battlefield-style gameplay.

WW1 Battlefield means you're throwing realism out of the window from the bare concept, so it's an exceptionally poor excuse for why you're not doing women soldiers.

This thread is certainly proving them right on that account....

Good find, thanks!

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

The only reason why someone wouldn't want women in multiplayer is if they are misogynists. Even unconscious ones. If authenticity was a real concern they'd be playing Verdun.

 

[nOoblet16]

Well if they have them in SP then why not in MP?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

If they were going for a historically accurate representation of WWI, this wouldn't be a huge problem.

But it's pretty evident that, as I expected, they're not doing that. Even though an accurate representation would have been killer.

So why not include them? The rest of your game is bonkers stupid nonsense anyways, it's not like this would be jumping the shark. It'd be positively tame in comparison to some of the dumb equipment and vehicles we've seen.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I'm a little surprised no one has put in the info from a former DICE employee about this.

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117056879943681

The original conception totally had women soldiers in multiplayer. Someone had that element removed along the way, and the ultimate reason given was "boys don't find that realistic".

Whoa...well there it is dot gif.

edit: This info probably needs its own thread.

 

[Izuna]

No black soldiers too? :/

In a way I actually like their choice to try and be accurate. WW1 is a fascinating war and not many people learn about it. If this game can educate people that would be nice.

 

[Neuromancer]

Why does this thread even exist? It's so stupid. Did BF3 / BF4 have female fighting soldiers?

No and DICE got flak for it, at least for the last game. They just don't care.

 

[Filthy Casual]

Being honest, I never assumed there would be female soldiers in MP.

The campaign is easier to integrate diversity into, whilst also claiming authenticity, by telling the lesser known stories of different combatants. I'd wager most of the MP maps will be the front line in mainland Europe, where female soldiers were almost unheard of.

I'm just pleased about the prospect of the campaign.

This is the key. It makes sense in singeplayer because you can tell individual stories. Multiplayer is a more broad view, and in the vast majority of battles there would have been no women fighting, and none at all for most countries. It would completely break the immersion if there was a mixture of men and women running around the battlefield because it did not happen that way. It wasn't women getting gassed to death or mowed down by machine guns on the western front, it was men. Maybe the Russians had some women but I'm sure they would have still been a tiny minority and we don't even know if they're a side in multiplayer yet. Can't believe people are making this an issue.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

The only reason why someone wouldn't want women in multiplayer is if they are misogynists. Even unconscious ones. If authenticity was a real concern they'd be playing Verdun.

I think that's rather unfair. I think you can be for inclusion of women in gaming in general while desiring some sort of resemblance to reality in MP, even if it's superficial. Again I think it's a choice they made, and whether they stick with it or reverse it is up to them.

 

[Neuromancer]

Please.... then when they get blown up in game there'll be outcry about violence on women.

Show me where that's happened in any other MP game. I'm legitimately curious.

 

[paragonpro]

It was ww1, not expecting to see a whole lot of women on the battlefield. i dont see a problem here. Now if jt were a modern day cod or battlefield, then yes, that would be a weird omission

 

[Messofanego]

DICE isn't one to be using historical accuracy or realism to exclude women out of things. We're talking about Battlefield here, not ARMA.

Amandine Coget (software engineer on Frostbite/DICE) had a rant about Battlefield 1's original pitch being ditched on Twitter that if anything, it might not be believable for the boy audience (because they're not used to seeing women in war games).

It's likely the female playable Bedouin warrior came from these discussions:

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117349747261440

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I've always wondered--why is historical accuracy even important? Are your soldiers gonna get trench-foot? Camp out in trenches for days, if not weeks, at a time?

It's always struck me as weird to make gameplay caveats but not story-related ones if you want "historical accuracy." You're already losing a massive chunk of what made the conflict what it was in the first place.

Its always silly imo.
Any multiplayer shooter I play im not thinking "im such and such fighting in ____"
Im just Razgriz-Specter playing ___ at this time.

That creates a bit of an issue with "hero shooters" or something like Black Ops 3 where characters are so defined that I feel less connected invested.

 

[tuco11]

Who gives a shit? I dont see why this is even a topic. Every game doesnt have to have every, race ,gender .. etc.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'm a little surprised no one has put in the info from a former DICE employee about this.

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117056879943681

The original conception totally had women soldiers in multiplayer. Someone had that element removed along the way, and the ultimate reason given was "boys don't find that realistic". This in a game where tanks are prevalent and don't require a crew of 8 to steer the thing and fire the 1 gun. Hell, just look at the concept. It's a World War 1 game that doesn't remotely resemble actual WW1. For that, you'd have to look at something like Verdun, which is nothing like Battlefield-style gameplay.

WW1 Battlefield means you're throwing realism out of the window from the bare concept, so it's an exceptionally poor excuse for why you're not doing women soldiers.

Wow, what the fuck? I think this just confirmed my suspicion that Star Wars Battlefront only had women in multiplayer because Disney/LucasFilm told DICE to include them.

 

[Sylas]

This is the key. It makes sense in singeplayer because you can tell individual stories. Multiplayer is a more broad view, and in the vast majority of battles there would have been no women fighting, and none at all for most countries. It would completely break the immersion if there was a mixture of men and women running around the battlefield because it did not happen that way. It wasn't women getting gassed to death or mowed down by machine guns on the western front, it was men. Maybe the Russians had some women but I'm sure they would have still been a tiny minority and we don't even know if they're a side in multiplayer yet. Can't believe people are making this an issue.

Is there really any immersion or education in a game that explicitly won't show some of the most tragic elements of WW1? Is there any immersion when you're solo-piloting a tank and not needing a crew of people to help? Is there immersion when a bunch of numbers leap onto your screen detailing how badass your kill was?

The immersion argument sucks for a Battlefield game.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

This is the key. It makes sense in singeplayer because you can tell individual stories. Multiplayer is a more broad view, and in the vast majority of battles there would have been no women fighting, and none at all for most countries. It would completely break the immersion if there was a mixture of men and women running around the battlefield because it did not happen that way. It wasn't women getting gassed to death or mowed down by machine guns on the western front, it was men. Maybe the Russians had some women but I'm sure they would have still been a tiny minority and we don't even know if they're a side in multiplayer yet. Can't believe people are making this an issue.

If you're talking about "breaking immersion", I'd think that your immersion would be broken when you're playing a WW1 game that doesn't involve huddling in trenches, waiting for the call to charge, and then running out to be mowed down by a mounted machine gun.

"Immersion" is immediately broken when you see that it's just Battlefield with a WW1 skin.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm a little surprised no one has put in the info from a former DICE employee about this.

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117056879943681

The original conception totally had women soldiers in multiplayer. Someone had that element removed along the way, and the ultimate reason given was "boys don't find that realistic". This in a game where tanks are prevalent and don't require a crew of 8 to steer the thing and fire the 1 gun. Hell, just look at the concept. It's a World War 1 game that doesn't remotely resemble actual WW1. For that, you'd have to look at something like Verdun, which is nothing like Battlefield-style gameplay.

WW1 Battlefield means you're throwing realism out of the window from the bare concept, so it's an exceptionally poor excuse for why you're not doing women soldiers.

Wow. I don't know what to say.

 

[cripterion]

The only reason why someone wouldn't want women in multiplayer is if they are misogynists. Even unconscious ones. If authenticity was a real concern they'd be playing Verdun.

How about those that don't care and just wanna play the damn game, how would you categorize those?

 

[Jobbs]

How about those that don't care and just wanna play the damn game, how would you categorize those?

people who wouldn't be in this thread, I guess

 

[Garrett Hawke]

How about those that don't care and just wanna play the damn game, how would you categorize those?

Aggressive apathy which is almost worse, because it slides under the radar without being called out.

 

[Anton Sugar]

How about those that don't care and just wanna play the damn game, how would you categorize those?

Weirdos paying attention to/posting in a thread they clearly have no interest in?

 

[PeskyToaster]

Wow, what the fuck? I think this just confirmed my suspicion that Star Wars Battlefront only had women in multiplayer because Disney/LucasFilm told DICE to include them.

Disney wants all them sweet sweet quadrants.

 

[Filthy Casual]

If they were going for a historically accurate representation of WWI, this wouldn't be a huge problem.

But it's pretty evident that, as I expected, they're not doing that. Even though an accurate representation would have been killer.

So why not include them? The rest of your game is bonkers stupid nonsense anyways, it's not like this would be jumping the shark. It'd be positively tame in comparison to some of the dumb equipment and vehicles we've seen.

What are you on about? Nothing in the game didn't exist at the time. Yes some of the weapons may have been rare or prototypes but it makes sense from a gameplay perspective to include them.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

I think if the change was done just to pander to male gamers, that definitely is problematic, but again I don't think that twitter feed rules out that there was a genuine change in artistic direction.

 

[GinoFelino]

DICE isn't one to be using historical accuracy or realism to exclude women out of things. We're talking about Battlefield here, not ARMA.

Amandine Coget (software engineer on Frostbite/DICE) had a rant about Battlefield 1's original pitch being ditched on Twitter that if anything, it might not be believable for the boy audience (because they're not used to seeing women in war games).

It's likely the female playable Bedouin warrior came from these discussions:

*snip*

Holy shit. That's.....disappointing.

The only reason why someone wouldn't want women in multiplayer is if they are misogynists

How about those that don't care and just wanna play the damn game, how would you categorize those?

Well, that would mean you're not a misogynist, because you're not someone that doesn't want women in multiplayer. You don't care, which isn't great but not as bad.

 

[Kinyou]

Sometimes a lack of diversity can be used for story telling

With Battlefront it actually struck me as odd to see female stormtrooper. It was always a clear contrast between the Empire which was mostly led by white male humans, and the rebels who were very mixed.


Now with BF1 it would have made sense to look which armies used female soldiers (apparently the Russians?) and then have only those have access to female mp characters. Basically you'd have diversity, while also presenting facts.


And sure the game isn't realistic, but you can see certain rules in it. Like guns had to at least exist on a prototype level, the British army isn't going to use German tanks etc. They take something that was there and exaggerate it. That's why I think letting the Russians have female characters would have been a pretty good fit.

 

[Sylas]

What are you on about? Nothing in the game didn't exist at the time. Yes some of the weapons may have been rare or prototypes but it makes sense from a gameplay perspective to include them.

Do you think parachutes are gonna randomly drop you out of the sky during multiplayer!

 

[gunslikewhoa]

What will single player be? An actual campaign? Or just bots in multiplayer?

battlefield always has a campaign

 

[Filthy Casual]

If you're talking about "breaking immersion", I'd think that your immersion would be broken when you're playing a WW1 game that doesn't involve huddling in trenches, waiting for the call to charge, and then running out to be mowed down by a mounted machine gun.

"Immersion" is immediately broken when you see that it's just Battlefield with a WW1 skin.

Not for me it isn't. I don't need a WW1 simulator, but as long as the weapons and vehicles existed at the time I'm okay with that. And just the whole environment draws me in, visually it's definitely authentic. And not every single battle followed that running towards a machine gun and getting shot sequence.

 

[mollipen]

I don't care about them being in single player, and I think that's the weirder of the two options. No female in multiplayer is complete BS.

 

[cripterion]

people who wouldn't be in this thread, I guess

Aggressive apathy which is almost worse, because it slides under the radar without being called out.

Well like I said before they've had character models for Battlefront, they've announced that you play as a female in the campaign, is it such a big deal to not have female characters in a WW1 game? Google WWI soldiers and tell me how many females you see.

Holy shit. That's.....disappointing.



Well, that would mean you're not a misogynist, because you're not someone that doesn't want women in multiplayer. You don't care, which isn't great but not as bad.

Ok, I wouldn't say I don't care about it since I'm in the thread but obviously it wouldn't impact my decision on wether I buy the game or not based on that.

 

[maquiladora]

Who gives a shit? I dont see why this is even a topic. Every game doesnt have to have every, race ,gender .. etc.

And yet here you are posting in this thread.

 

[GinoFelino]

Well like I said before they've had character models for Battlefront, they've announced that you play as a female in the campaign, is it such a big deal to not have female characters in a WW1 game? Google WWI soldiers and tell me how many females you see.

So you do care? Or is it that you don't understand why other people care...?

Who gives a shit? I dont see why this is even a topic. Every game doesnt have to have every, race ,gender .. etc.

So long as every game has white male characters, it's all fine with me

 

[Htown]

DICE isn't one to be using historical accuracy or realism to exclude women out of things. We're talking about Battlefield here, not ARMA.

Amandine Coget (software engineer on Frostbite/DICE) had a rant about Battlefield 1's original pitch being ditched on Twitter that if anything, it might not be believable for the boy audience (because they're not used to seeing women in war games).

It's likely the female playable Bedouin warrior came from these discussions:

https://twitter.com/LiaSae/status/742117349747261440

that's a damn shame

though, it is kind of something to think about

a lot of people seem to think it's THEM DAMN SJWs trying to push this stuff on the internet, over the objection of the creative team

(see this thread)

in reality, these fights probably happen within the studios all the time, with creative people disagreeing with each other and with management