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[Coffinhal]

While I understand your point, I was trying to figure it out why the decision was taken. I don't mind the violence, but these kinda of games should come with a "light" version of the animations, indeed.

The "why" is just that in SP it's probably just a mo-cap model for the cutscenes and the same animations in 1st person and they didn't think about making different models for women in MP or thought it didn't make sense (historically or for gameplay) / was a waste of time and ressources.

I just really think this is one of those cases where they can genuinely go "it would break immersion if we started creating like WWI-era English female soldiers serving with the BEF". I'm for more inclusion of women in gaming, but a situation like this I don't see a problem with them treating the combatants like they were in reality.

Obviously it doesn't make sense for BF: Hardline not to have women, I'd definitely say that an omission there.

I agree.

It's not the same thing as a zeppelin or a rare weapon that have a gameplay purpose, a skin for the soldier is a problem of representation of the diversity, it doesn't change anything gameplay-wise

 

[vkris]

I know you are joking, but it probably is easier to have less variety in character models for MP for performance reasons, not because it's "hard" work creating them.

This is likely almost entirely their reason.
Having proper working hitboxes in MP is #1 priority - and they had lots of problems with that last gen. Make 8 models instead of 4? Fuck no.
And if they made Medic class with woman model then people would complain about that too.

Like someone said earlier, you dont even see your goddamn character until you die - it's an FPS. Unless you're complaining "I don't get to kill enough women characters", in which case, ok you go ahead and make that point without getting shit on as well.

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Like, to put the shoe on the other foot; I don't think it'd be the end of the world if MP included female models. I think it'd be pretty silly and out of place, but it wouldn't keep me from purchasing the game. But I think having the MP be all male soldiers is a perfectly valid artistic decision by DICE.

 

[GinoFelino]

The "why" is just that in SP it's probably just a mo-cap model for the cutscenes and the same animations in 1st person and they didn't think about making different models for women in MP or thought it didn't make sense (historically or for gameplay) / was a waste of time and ressources.

I agree.

It's not the same thing as a zeppelin or a rare weapon that have a gameplay purpose, a skin for the soldier is a problem of representation of the diversity, it doesn't change anything gameplay-wise

That sort of sums up the issue perfectly, doesn't it.

On your second point: changing history for gameplay purposes (zeppelin, prototype weapons) is more acceptable than changing it for diversity purposes, even though that makes no difference for gameplay?

 

[BrassDragon]

Multiplayer is all about the historical accuracy dontchaknow.

 

[cripterion]

Yep, probably the real reason.
Two models is hard work!

They have female player models in Battlefront

 

[Dennis]

Well women didn't really fight in the front lines so it makes sense from a historical standpoint though I'm sure there are some notable exceptions

But they put a woman in the campaign.

I don't see why you wouldn't put one in the MP then.

 

[Basketball]

I dont really see the issue

That cinematic trailer kinda set the tone.. Other than the wierd choice of music.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I think this is going to have to be something they add, either by launch or with a free patch after launch.

They tried to get people to fall for that with Battlefield 4, saying they were looking into it and deciding when the right time to add them would be "because its more work than just throwing in models"
It never happened,

Hardline came out later again with females in campaign, yet multiplayer doesn't have a single female cop or criminal.
Dat accuracy

Now Battlefield 1 hits with a female in the campaign for the 3rd time but none in multiplayer 'cause accuracy.

 

[CryptiK]

Ya'll complaining about no Women is a fucking WWI shooter, but DICE didn't even include the French. Thats the real problem here.

I think this is going to have to be something they add, either by launch or with a free patch after launch. If not, I feel it's going to overshadow everything else about the game. I know they must have thought the female and black characters in the single-player would earn them a pass, but I don't think it works like that!

Its not going to overshadow anything because its not an issue.

 

[Karak]

I get the idea but women absolutely 100% did fight during WW1. Also if its in SP than it can be in MP. BBC and century both have great info as well as the Women of WW1 wiki.

 

[TimeEffect]

But they put a woman in the campaign.

I don't see why you wouldn't put one in the MP then.

The woman in the campaign probably wont be playable.

Also, judging by the trailer, why do I get the feeling that the SP is going to be some hollywood badass kind of storyline?

I want the story to be loud, depressing, and desperate. I dont trust DICE at all with SP

 

[ScherzoPrime]

Ya'll complaining about no Women is a fucking WWI shooter, but DICE didn't even include the French. Thats the real problem here.

How do we know the French won't be in? They have the Friggin' Ottomans and Italians, so I bet the French will be in as well.

The woman in the campaign probably wont be playable.

I'm almost certain they've gone on record saying that the Bedouin woman is playable in SP.

Also the Bad Company SP campaigns were great; they leveraged the BF series strengths instead of chasing after CoD like 3/4 did.

 

[Camper182]

Why does this thread even exist? It's so stupid. Did BF3 / BF4 have female fighting soldiers?

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Being honest, I never assumed there would be female soldiers in MP.

The campaign is easier to integrate diversity into, whilst also claiming authenticity, by telling the lesser known stories of different combatants. I'd wager most of the MP maps will be the front line in mainland Europe, where female soldiers were almost unheard of.

I'm just pleased about the prospect of the campaign.

 

[CryptiK]

How do we know the French won't be in? They have the Friggin' Ottomans and Italians, so I bet the French will be in as well.

In the single player, Multiplayer has only confirmed American, British and Germans thats it. Hell even Russia hasn't been confirmed yet so there goes the WWI women argument.

 

[Filthy Casual]

Fuck sake here we go... good decision.

 

[GinoFelino]

Why does this thread even exist? It's so stupid. Did BF3 / BF4 have female fighting soldiers?

I'm sorry.

I agree with you.

Nothing should ever be changed.

 

[Nirolak]

On this note, has anyone seen any black soldiers in the multiplayer screens? I can't remember any.

Why does this thread even exist? It's so stupid. Did BF3 / BF4 have female fighting soldiers?

A difference here is that with BF3/BF4, it was believably a memory issue given they were tearing out features like using a gun with your shield due to 1.7 MB of animation data being needed.

 

[DOWN]

"Get a modern, diverse choice!"

"No not that one"

 

[GamingOblivion]

theres literally no reason to not have a woman in the MP, especially when its in the SP.

 

[Jobbs]

Did any women fight in World War 1?

russia had the most badass women ever in WW1 and WW2

I wish we had female soldiers though, I understand it may not be *generally* historically accurate but almost nothing in BF1 is

 

[SmellyHoundRedux]

What about transgender men and women are they included? I'm offended!

 

[ScherzoPrime]

In the single player, Multiplayer has only confirmed American, British and Germans thats it.

One of the teasers they released had Italians fighting Austrians, and I'm pretty sure it was MP gameplay. Even if it isn't, I doubt they'd create those assets and not have them in MP.

 

[4Tran]

I really like the idea of female avatars in games, but this is an instance wherein their lack isn't something to be worked up over. Women did fight in WWI, but the thing is, women fought in every major conflict in human history. The usual way it happened was that women disguised themselves as men and fought just like the men did. However, this would generally be very rare, and not modelling it in a game is completely acceptable. WWI is not WWII where lots of women played major combat roles, especially on the Eastern Front. Before then, it's great if they're modelled, and okay if they're not.

And for the female character in the campaign - she looks pretty damned cool, but you're not going to be dropping her into Norther France, or Italy, or anything like that.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Especially strange coming from DICE. hope they change their minds, as others have noted there are plenty of non-historically accurate things happening in the multiplayer already.

What about transgender men and women are they included? I'm offended!

Edgy post

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Why does this thread even exist? It's so stupid.
Did BF3 / BF4 have female fighting soldiers?

Thats the problem, there was also a thread for BF4 not having female characters in multiplayer.
Hardline didn't because nobody cared about that pos but it was an even bigger issue there.

 

[Anton Sugar]

What about transgender men and women are they included? I'm offended!

Instead of shitposting, maybe contribute to the discussion?

Yeah, screw historical accuracy. Gimme female soldiers and an M-16! Throw in a Tiger tank and Predator drones while you're at it.

If you'd bother reading the thread, this angle has been discussed already.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, screw historical accuracy. Gimme female soldiers and an M-16! Throw in a Tiger tank and Predator drones while you're at it.

 

[Jobbs]

What about transgender men and women are they included? I'm offended!

thank you for saying what needed to be said

Spoiler

sarcasm if it wasn't obvious

Yeah, screw historical accuracy. Gimme female soldiers and an M-16! Throw in a Tiger tank and Predator drones while you're at it.

I watched 20 minutes of BF1 gameplay and it was a picture of historical accuracy. it was nearly a simulation

 

[Heroman]

In the single player, Multiplayer has only confirmed American, British and Germans thats it. Hell even Russia hasn't been confirmed yet so there goes the WWI women argument.

That sucks,I would lose the American for the french but I understand why they made that choice.

 

[CryptiK]

One of the teasers they released had Italians fighting Austrians, and I'm pretty sure it was MP gameplay. Even if it isn't, I doubt they'd create those assets and not have them in MP.

They have done exactly that with the past Battlefield games. Soldier assets in SP and MP are quite different. Generally to save on memory due to Single player assets being of higher quality.

 

[Sky87]

The only way this could work balance-wise is swapping the heads of the soldiers with a female-looking one.

Hit-boxes and all needs to stay 100% the same, so changing the body builds/heights etc would not work.

But then we'd have women running around looking burly like men. There would be people unhappy about that as well.

 

[EVIL]

if they have them in SP I don't see why it would be strange to be able to pick em in MP.

 

[eyeball_kid]

But they put a woman in the campaign.

My guess is the woman in the campaign will be something like a medic.

I get the argument for historical accuracy, but in a multiplayer game where the British suddenly have giant assault zeppelins, they might as well put in a woman avatar. It's not going to ruin the game.

 

[Aikidoka]

Yeah this seems like bullshit. EA continues to disappoint

 

[ScherzoPrime]

My guess is the woman in the campaign will be something like a medic.

I get the argument for historical accuracy, but in a multiplayer game where the British suddenly have giant assault zeppelins, they might as well put in a woman avatar. It's not going to ruin the game.

Like I said, I don't think it'd ruin the game, but I think how it is is a valid artistic choice on DICE's behalf. I think it plays into the 'perceived realism' they mentioned in that Gamespot interview.

Like on an abstract level, I get the desire for wanting more women representation in games in general, but I think this is a good historical case where you can argue it makes sense for it to be male only. It doesn't necessarily have to be male, but I can definitely see a defensible case for it on artistic grounds, when there isn't for modern or future based games.

 

[PhazonBlazer]

Maybe the female soldier in the campaign pulled a Mulan

 

[Keasar]

One of the teasers they released had Italians fighting Austrians, and I'm pretty sure it was MP gameplay. Even if it isn't, I doubt they'd create those assets and not have them in MP.

Italians and Austrians are confirmed. One of the maps plays out in the Alps (Monte Grappa) and one on the Italian coast (Empire's Edge).

 

[Jobbs]

My guess is the woman in the campaign will be something like a medic.

I get the argument for historical accuracy, but in a multiplayer game where the British suddenly have giant assault zeppelins, they might as well put in a woman avatar. It's not going to ruin the game.

it's basically "any battlefield game now skinned with WW1 stuff" -- which is neat, don't get me wrong, but it's so far from being a historical simulation. It's battlefield. It's silly fun. I want women avatars.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

The only way this could work balance-wise is swapping the heads of the soldiers with a female-looking one.

Hit-boxes and all needs to stay 100% the same, so changing the body builds/heights etc would not work.

But then we'd have women running around looking burly like men. There would be people unhappy about that as well.

Its not a problem for any shooter on the market except DICE and Battlefield for some reason.

 

[GinoFelino]

What about transgender men and women are they included? I'm offended!

.............

Seriously?

 

[Coffinhal]

No French faction confirmed yet? lol

On your second point: changing history for gameplay purposes (zeppelin, prototype weapons) is more acceptable than changing it for diversity purposes, even though that makes no difference for gameplay?

Finding it acceptable or not is a personal opinion. I think it's worth the extra work (they did it in Battlefront and it was cool) but I can understand/imagine why they didn't do it. In other words it's understandable, but also breaks their "pro-diversity" policy and could be a PR problem because people won't find it acceptable.

 

[hobblygobbly]

For authenticity and historical accuracy? This is the same game that has side mounted scopes on rifles, which wasn't issued in WW1 at all by any army.

They can't even get weapons right. Also any rifle that had a scope mounted would have been mounted on top, not on the side, as civilian rifles of the time were found to have, but no standard issue by ANY army in the war had scopes, let alone side mounted of all things if they did...

If you want to make a historically accurate WW1 game with a good narrative (please someone do this) then by all means, but Battlefield 1 isn't that and I don't see why women can't be included in multiplayer. If you are already taking liberties with the game, why can't you take liberty with women in multiplayer?

 

[cityhunter]

Please.... then when they get blown up in game there'll be outcry about violence on women.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Please.... then when they get blown up in game there'll be outcry about violence on women.

Because that happened with

Battlefront
Titanfall
Call of Duty
Overwatch

???

Such a stupid post.

 

[Oersted]

Multiplayer is all about the historical accuracy dontchaknow.

When it comes down to gender representation, the excuses are always creative/artistic freedom, it is an attempt on historical accuracy or videogames are not supposed to be realistic.

No matter what, women can't win.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I think this is going to have to be something they add, either by launch or with a free patch afte must have thought the female and black characters in the single-player would earn ther launch. If not, I feel it's going to overshadow everything else about the game. I know theym a pass, but I don't think it works like that!

I doubt it honestly. I really don't see this overshadowing anything, especially with E3 going on.

 

[JebaćBiedę]

But violence against women!

 

[Pantaghana]

I really like the idea of female avatars in games, but this is an instance wherein their lack isn't something to be worked up over. Women did fight in WWI, but the thing is, women fought in every major conflict in human history. The usual way it happened was that women disguised themselves as men and fought just like the men did. However, this would generally be very rare, and not modelling it in a game is completely acceptable. WWI is not WWII where lots of women played major combat roles, especially on the Eastern Front. Before then, it's great if they're modelled, and okay if they're not.

And for the female character in the campaign - she looks pretty damned cool, but you're not going to be dropping her into Norther France, or Italy, or anything like that.

One of the most famous women soldiers of WW1 was Milunka Savić, she joined the army pretending to be a man and was only discovered to be a woman when she was injured and taken to a hospital. After she was discovered she pleaded her case in front of her commanding officer and he allowed her to stay in the army and continue to fight.

I have little doubt about there being other women on the on the front lines.