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GameSpot: No Playable Female Character in new Zelda [UP: Additional Comments in OP]

How often are they included in advertisement? Or in promotional material?

Seriously, "Link gets a new tunic halfway through the game" and "Link's main tunic is now blue" is a big damn difference, and the fact that the female Link controversy came from the fact that his tunic was blue proves this.



This Link isn't meant to represent the player anymore, so why would it matter? Does TWW Link have OoT Link's personality?

He is still Link though. Yes they have character traits and personality traits. They're obviously not incredibly fleshed out but they're still there. Which means if you're on the outside interacting with him he needs to have more personality fleshed into him since hes no longer the player character. You need to be able to communicate with him just like any other game where you have some type of human companion.
 

Palmer27

Member
If Link's role is avatar then adding a female option would not be enough. It would need character customization options(hair, skin, maybe some faces options, mainly) and at that point they are removing the prior identity of Link(the Link they see and have crafted over 30 years) and replacing it with a much more ambiguous one.

I suppose he's an avatar in the very nintendo way of being called Link: as the silent protagonist to represent and link the player - not in the MMO-RPG customization sense you're suggesting. Link's always swayed around the effeminate male end for this reason and I personally think now would have been as finer time as any to have a definitely female variant to choose from for this incarnation.
I would guess the weird situation of this having been made into such an issue is a result of the long speculation against Aonuma's lack of particular reason to have changed this.
 

Tasha2k2

Neo Member
This.

You all argue about a female Link why don't you ask for a female Mario

Because Mario is the exact same Mario that has appeared in every single Mario game.

"Link" is about 20 different Links. All in different periods of time. Different characters, different bodies, different experiences, why not different genders?
 
what would it really change if link were female? i can't think of any way it would have affected the character even in previous games

I've layed this out in plenty of the other threads. But to name a few, skywards sword's story would be completely different, the princess ruto thing in ocarina, link and Ilia in twilight princess, the opening of wind waker would need some rewrites. Off the top of my head.
 

Darth_Caedus

No longer canonical
Because Mario is the exact same Mario that has appeared in every single Mario game.

"Link" is about 20 different Links. All in different periods of time. Different characters, different bodies, different experiences, why not different genders?
I don't think they want a Prince Zelda so they won't change his gender.
 

Schnozberry

Member
In my eyes, Aonuma's words here don't so much speak to his staggeringly lack of creativity and imagination when it came to the task developing a new kind of story for this game, but his inability to envision a narrative that would exist out of the traditional rescuing hero/damsel in distress dynamic that has become so ingrained in the series as a whole, which only serves to speak as a fundamental failure on his part as a storyteller.

Or he got told by his bosses that they would be sticking with series tradition because the NX launch rides on this game and they don't want to shake the foundations of the series too hard and risk losing long time fans.

It seems like they were open to the idea of Zelda getting a chance as a main character, but were likely too afraid of fan backlash from having Link take a backseat. I have a hard time believing that Nintendo would think of this decision as weighing in on gender politics in games. It just made the most sense to them from a business perspective, rightly or wrongly.
 

aeolist

Banned
This.

You all argue about a female Link why don't you ask for a female Mario

partly because the mario series has had playable female characters for a long time, and partly because the mario series has been much less of a role-playing character driven experience
 
People arguing about Link's personality when it's non-existent.

There's a place in the lore where it's stated the triforce characters had to remain with the same sex with every incarnation? If there isn't, then why can't they make it a choice?

This is not like changing Snake of MGS to a woman (that would be hot, though), because, surprise! link has no character. It's just the player, and the green clothes/ elfic androgynous design.
 
Personally, I stand by the idea that Link should be a female Gerudo in the next game.



Firstly - "oh no, wouldn't it be awful if Zelda got a better story?" :v

Secondly - It wouldn't solve the problem, but people would both be less bothered now that they have ANY playable character and because it's not the problem that's preventing female Link.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against a change in the story, as I would actually be open to it (my favourite Zelda is MM and is a complete departure in terms of series norms and tropes). As for your first point, I was implying that because the series has been like this since the late 80s, that people within Nintendo assume that Zelda has to be a certain way and anything otherwise would hurt the game's quality and business potential. At least, that's how I see why they're so aversive to taking risks and making changes in the formula form a storytelling standpoint.

As for your second point, I agree for the most part, I guess I just don't see the logic in making a player character represent a player but not giving the player freedom to choose how they want their avatar to be representative of themselves.
 
Man the reactions in this thread are hilarious. Link is the main character in every Zelda game. Link has always been male. Link has never had gender identity issues. Why would they change his gender now? How can anyone have expected that?
 

Twiforce

Member
I've layed this out in plenty of the other threads. But to name a few, skywards sword's story would be completely different, the princess ruto thing in ocarina, link and Ilia in twilight princess, the opening of wind waker would need some rewrites. Off the top of my head.

ONLY if you require everything to be heteronormative.

There is no reason outside of heteronormative reasoning why those same storylines couldn't work with a female Link.
 

Satch

Banned
this game could have been entirely about zelda enduring rigorous physical training to become one of the Sheikah 😩😩😩😩😩😩
 

Biltmore

Banned
Hilarious. Saw so many people who were oh so sure and i'm glad to see them wrong.

The way people can get upset about stories they create is very comical

Yeah, it's crazy how people invent a story, build the story up, and then get all pissed off when their creation and reality don't align. I actually wish Nintendo had just said, "Link isn't female" and been done with it rather than make up this excuse, because those same people, who imagined up this story, are now using their excuse to further their outrage. I have zero problems playing as a female character, and I do in many games, but there is zero reason Link needs to be female and there was no reason to believe he ever would be. The fact that people built it up in their minds isn't Nintendo's fault, and their poor excuse doesn't change anything other than give people a little fuel to keep this non-story burning.
 

Haunted

Member
Compulsive hatred of grass.
also pots

f81ef71fb01718c40bbcc458130b215f.jpg
 
No they couldn't. It would be retarded to see Zelda handle a sword and shield exactly and as effectively as Link does. They'd have to completely re-work the combat around her.

Exactly the point and why I wanted it to happen.

People think the showing of LoZ today was revolutionary? Think about what a Zelda-centric game would be like.

Which is again why I'm saying I believe these comments are meant to be interpreted as "we couldn't change the game we already began developing after we put out a trailer with a feminine looking Link and rumors and calls for a female character got out of control."

I interpret Aonuma's comments as someone who wants to make Zelda the star of a game, not a sexist Japanese asshole.
 

stufte

Member
Man the reactions in this thread are hilarious. Link is the main character in every Zelda game. Link has always been male. Link has never had gender identity issues. Why would they change his gender now? How can anyone have expected that?

Because it's 2016™
 

Igo

Member
When you're selling your games, your creative control is limited. You DO have to answer to fans to some extent.
do you actually think that every zelda game has been absolutely perfect? no flaws whatsoever? they should all be made in a hermetically sealed box with no input or feedback from the outside world?
Feedback and criticism are an inevitability for anyone putting something they've created out into the world, but I don't think we're entitled to a conversation with the artist. In fact, knowing an artist has buckled to corporate or market pressure negatively affects my perception of the art, even if it's for the better. It just becomes a much less honest product to me and my interest drops substantially.
 

Tasha2k2

Neo Member
Man the reactions in this thread are hilarious. Link is the main character in every Zelda game. Link has always been male. Link has never had gender identity issues. Why would they change his gender now? How can anyone have expected that?

Because it's not the same character dumbass. Who said anything about Link having gender identity issues? They're not changing EVERY OTHER Link's gender. Why is it so hard to accept ONE Link out of TWENTY being a girl? Sexist much?
 
But as long as you can still choose to be boy Link, what gets taken from you?

Zelda is not an RPG, it's an action/adventure game. More often than not, complete control over your avatar's appearance and gender and actions are confined to the former.

Because Mario is the exact same Mario that has appeared in every single Mario game.

"Link" is about 20 different Links. All in different periods of time. Different characters, different bodies, different experiences, why not different genders?

The LoZ story being about reincarnated avatars of the same hero is a framing device that allows them to reuse protagonists, antagonists, locations and weapons while introducing new gameplay. The actual narrative tying the games together is paper thin, a massive retcon at best.
 

Jobbs

Banned
What? :(

I'd be happy with either honestly. Female Link option or playable Zelda. Or both! :D

Linkle can stay in Hyrule Warriors.

No I'm just sad that we didn't get our playable girl in this game and I was reaching out for support lol

This also means I lost a bet and owe $10
 
There are TONS of artists who have drawn female link while still keeping a lot of the same design elements that make Link Link.

Why can't "The Hero" be a girl? Is there some sort of divine rule in Zelda games that means that the holder of the Triforce of Courage can't be a girl?

If Link wakes up in each timeline with NO memory of any of the other adventures then why would Link be surprised if they looked down and saw they didn't have a penis?

If you don't understand the reasoning by now, there's little I can to do spell it out for you.
The 'Divine' rule is that Link is a character. A character integral to the narrative of the game. Link is Link as Samus is Samus as Tom Sawyer is Tom Sawyer.

It's just how it is. People are focusing on a lost cause here and really should be considering the far more critical issues in the industry holding back equal gender representation.
 
Soooo who exactly started the rumour

The rumour is a fire that has been burning for so long, I don't know if we can even say. Emily Rogers tweeted about it, but we've had people here on GAF completely certain that there would be a girl Link in this game since the reveal trailer or earlier. People want this so hard that they will leap on just about anything as proof that it's happening.
 
He is still Link though. Yes they have character traits and personality traits. They're obviously not incredibly fleshed out but they're still there. Which means if you're on the outside interacting with him he needs to have more personality fleshed into him since hes no longer the player character. You need to be able to communicate with him just like any other game where you have some type of human companion.

Why did you ignore my point on TWW Link

TWW Link, factually, is a different character from OoT Link with a different personality. The most recent 3D Zelda had the biggest personality change of any Link. Objectively speaking, Nintendo does NOT care about keeping Link's personality the same.
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
But as long as you can still choose to be boy Link, what gets taken from you?

But don't you see, Link's character gets diluted!

/s

It'll probably come down to some vague statement about pandering.

IIRC, didn't people flip shit because of how the game implied that women were emotionally unstable?

IIRC her powers were based metaphorically, if not literally, on 'mood swings'
 
ONLY if you require everything to be heteronormative.

There is no reason outside of heteronormative reasoning why those same storylines couldn't work with a female Link.

Well yeah, but in that same logic gender is never a factor at all unless someone gave birth or something or the wind waker one, where link only gets tossed aside because he's a boy.
 

Kinyou

Member
I think making Zelda playable would be the better approach. But what's really weird about the answer is the "what would Link do". That's not really a hard question to answer. Just have him and Zelda split up at the start of the game, each one looking for some important item or something
 

krizzx

Junior Member
This is why Aonuma should have stuck with Miyamoto's philosphy and just left the character basic with no huge backstory and not giving into the demands of the populace for what they do with their games at all. It just feeds the sense of entitlement that so many gamers have come to have.
 

Pau

Member
No I'm just sad that we didn't get our playable girl in this game and I was reaching out for support lol

This also means I lost a bet and owe $10
Ah okay, I thought you were upset at something I had said! Shit I should have been in on that bet. Could have fed my soda addiction for a week with that kind of money! :p
 
u-wot-m8.gif


Aonuma buddy, listen to me....do you and your team not possess that magical thing storytellers like to refer to as an imagination? A means to imagine a story that could easily differentiate itself from the kind of story you've told us about a hundred times before? I mean, for example, if you seriously wanted to make Zelda the main character for the series for a change....

-Link could have been....a childhood friend, who would travel with Zelda as a travelling companion in her journey across Hyrule (whether as a dual-protagonist or an unplayable sidekick).
-Link could have been....a celebrated prince of Hyrule who would get kidnapped or imprisoned by Ganon (with Zelda having to rescue him, in a reversal of the traditional LoZ dynamic)
Link could have beena beloved royal protector who Princess Zelda has become particularly fond of, only to mysteriously disappear one night when dark forces steal into Hyrule Castle, thus speaking off Princess Zelda's adventure out into Hyrule as she is determined to learn the truth about his disappearance.
-Link could have been....an older character from what we're normally used to, a seasoned adventurer, who would serve as a metaphor figure for a younger Zelda.
-Link could have been...Zelda's father, a retired adventurer who hung up the green tunic long ago, but who quietly encourages his daughter's fierce rebellious streak as she goes out into the world to have her own adventures.

In my eyes, Aonuma's words here don't so much speak to his staggeringly lack of creativity and imagination when it came to the task developing a new kind of story for this game, but his inability to envision a narrative that would exist out of the traditional rescuing hero/damsel in distress dynamic that has become so ingrained in the series as a whole, which only serves to speak as a fundamental failure on his part as a storyteller.

We should start a trend on Twitter - maybe something like... #LinkCould ?
 
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