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[MakotoYuki]

This is good news for NX, I hope that the Pro controller works with it.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I don't even dislike the gamepad, and while not something I use, off screen is something a lot of people like

It's just not worth the downsides as it doesn't add enough from a gameplay perspective

If the Wii U launched with the Pro and it was $100 cheaper it would have done Gamecube numbers at least, the gamepad really held it back, it's not what people wanted

According to sales data, no it wouldn't have reached GC numbers.

You keep saying the same stuff over and over when you have been proven otherwise.

 

[linkboy]

I've never really been a big fan of Nintendo's push for dual screen gaming (or when Sony tried it with the PSP and PS3, for that matter).

I didn't care for this setup

I can manage with the DS / 3DS due to the screens being so close together, but I still hate the entire concept.

It just never clicked with me, so glad I don't have to use the blasted gamepad with BotW, and I hope NX uses a standard controller.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

This sounds like a comment about Zelda specifically rather than the out-of-context statement about the console as a whole people are going to make it be for the next several years.

I don't see many people caring about the Wii U in a couple years.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Aonuma is the same guy that made a big deal about second screen inventory and map since OoT 3D. And he was actually right.
Just because he's saying a lie to justify the NX porting doesn't make it true.

We have had 7, that's 7 Zelda games making good use of Dual Screens and touch screen setup.

Yet reality and objectivity? Who needs them XD

That in one person's opinion, the Gamepad is the Worst or Best thing in the world is irrelevant. What matters is that the thing is already paid for and infact it has been proven it has good uses in games in the Zelda series. So why not make use of it?

 

[BGBW]

WWHD and TPHD supported the Pro Controller so they've already manged to support the two control schemes before. I really hope they don't remove the GamePad functionality of larger map and item management that we've come accustomed to. TPHD had maps on both screen. I agree that sometimes having to look down is a pain, but sometimes you just need to make quick glances at it. And the touchscreen as input is often better than the traditional way of moving around a menu one highlight at a time.

Oh well, I'm likely getting the NX and if the Wii U version offers nothing over it my choice will be easy.

 

[oni-link]

According to sales data, no it wouldn't have reached GC numbers.

You keep saying the same stuff over and over when you have been proven otherwise.

Sales data is just sales data, it doesn't tell you why people didn't buy it, or why they did

I doubt many people bought a Wii U because of the gamepad

I bet a lot of people didn't buy one because of the gamepad

No mater how good you think it is, that won't change the fact that the people who buy dedicated gaming hardware don't want what they perceive as gimmicks

 

[PtM]

Wasn't he all lovey dovey about it when it came to the OOT/MM/WW/SS remasters? Seems odd to shit on it now unless he's just using it as cover for dropping those features to make porting to the NX simpler.

I believe you are on the money.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Sales data is just sales data, it doesn't tell you why people didn't buy it, or why they did

I doubt many people bought a Wii U because of the gamepad

I bet a lot of people didn't buy one because of the gamepad

No mater how good you think it is, that won't change the fact that the people who buy dedicated gaming hardware don't want what they perceive as gimmicks

Don't derail the main argument here with my "supposed love" for the Gamepad. You claim that a Wii U with a Pro controller instead would do at least GC numbers. Well, the actual data we have proves otherwise. You don't have much ground to back up your claims. So come up with something substantial before trying to refute when people debunk your claim.

Also is so contradictory to claim: "Sales data is just sales data", when you are using sales as your main point to disaprove something. It is rather peculiar to say the least.

And in regards to my stance of the Gampead, not only i was on point of what the Wii U would be in terms of interface even before it was unveiled, i also was very critical about it, when it was necessary or worthwhile to critisize.

 

[oni-link]

Don't derail the main argument here with my "supposed love" for the Gamepad. You claim that a Wii U with a Pro controller instead would do at least GC numbers. Well, the actual data we have proves otherwise. You don't have much ground to back up your claims. So come up with something substantial before trying to refute when people debunk your claim.

Also is so contradictory to claim: "Sales data is just sales data", when you are using sales as your main point to disaprove something. It is rather peculiar to say the least.

And in regards to my stance of the Gampead, not only i was on point of what the Wii U would be in terms of interface even before it was unveiled, i also was very critical about it, when it was necessary.

Well Nintendo can hire you and you can use your sales data crystal ball to help them get the NX to sell 100m copies then

My point was that I personally think that a much cheaper Wii U with a input device that doesn't alienate the core while offering little of its own, would be seen as a much more attractive prospect to the average gamer, as Nintendo games are why people love Nintendo, and a cheaper Wii U would still have an abundance of Nintendo games

You are of course, free to disagree with that

 

[Xater]

More like he no longer has to sell you on a Wii U and gets ready to sell you on a NX.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Well Nintendo can hire you and you can use your sales data crystal ball to help them get the NX to sell 100m copies then

My point was that I personally think that a much cheaper Wii U with a input device that doesn't alienate the core while offering little of its own, would be seen as a much more attractive prospect to the average gamer, as Nintendo games are why people love Nintendo, and a cheaper Wii U would still have an abundance of Nintendo games

You are of course, free to disagree with that

XD

You are the one using the crystal ball when saying it would sell above GC numbers, the historical sales data i spoke of are a fact.

And the issue here, is that your opinion, is not backed by anything substantial and is proven otherwise with actual data. Thus your stance every time the opportunity araises (of topic even in this case) is kind of "propagandistic" in the sense of the mantra: "Repeat a claim enough times until it becomes true".

But look Oni, let's just be diplomatic an go with the: "agree to disagree" here. i would really like if we are cool in this case.

Now please, let's get back to the actual topic.

The issue here is why are we ignoring the facts and reality? Aonuma spoke good things about the use of touch screens and dual screens in the past. He has actually developed games in the Zelda series where the interface is put to good use. And despite of how much of a failure the Wii U is, every single system has the Gamepad and the Zelda games on it have been able to support both Gamepad features and Wii U Pro controllers.

So why all of the sudden is a bad thing?

 

[Isomac]

I take it more like he means the action parts of the game. Like changing broken weapon while still in the fight. You would have to look down while the enemy is attacking you.

 

[Jinketsu]

I will say, the one time I felt really good about the gamepad was with Pikmin 3. I played with the Wiimote+Nunchuk, and had the Gamepad on its stand in front of the TV. It felt the most natural using it similarly to how Aonuma suggested, like a GPS on the dash.

 

[tomato shrub]

The issue here is why are we ignoring the facts and reality? Aonuma spoke good things about the use of touch screens and dual screens in the past. He has actually developed games in the Zelda series where the interface is put to good use.?

Aonuma is the same guy that made a big deal about second screen inventory and map since OoT 3D. And he was actually right.
Just because he's saying a lie to justify the NX porting doesn't make it true.

It's not that hard to understand the big difference between the DS- and WiiU setup of dual screens and why the latter is naturally worse. That's what the quote in the OP is all about.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I take it more like he means the action parts of the game. Like changing broken weapon while still in the fight. You would have to look down while the enemy is attacking you.

This is a good point.

However, we are looking at a Zelda game that is using elements inspired by many other developers. Why not slow down time while the selection process takes place?

Even if had the best reason in the world to ditch touchscreen inventory, what about other alternatives like Gyroscope selection? Why fallback to a traditional, cumbersome and intrusive management system?

They have the tools in there to make a better system, yet they are not doing so for reasons with might never know offically.

It's not that hard to understand the big difference between the DS- and WiiU setup of dual screens and why the latter is naturally worse. That's what the quote in the OP is all about.

Yea, is not that hard.

Like is not hard to see that even with that difference, the touch screen was put to good use in Wind Waker HD, an actual released Zelga game. Where the Gamepad features are typically acclaimed. And that is setting aside the various possibilities the Gamepad could have bringed to a Zelda game if they invested some time in to it, like customizable maps by supporting drawing in the game for example.

He spoke about it positively in the past because they were stuck with it, you can't say "yeah you know what, this is a pretty bad idea really" when you have to push this thing for the next few years

Now they might be free of it they can be a little more honest about how much of a burden it was

This has been answered already. Repeating again:

There's a Wii U version of this game, effectively making every single copy "stock" with the Gamepad. They already have legwork done supporting the features of the controller and they are able to support different controllers.

And yet again, leaving the lack of proper Gamepad support aside. Is not like they have come up with something better, as it is very intrusive to pause the game with the constant weapon, equipment and food switching/selection. Is not like Nintendo to not come with better solutions for these types of things, specially when they have done so in the past.

 

[oni-link]

Now please, let's get back to the actual topic.

The issue here is why are we ignoring the facts and reality? Aonuma spoke good things about the use of touch screens and dual screens in the past. He has actually developed games in the Zelda series where the interface is put to good use. And despite of how much of a failure the Wii U is, every single system has the Gamepad and the Zelda games on it have been able to support both Gamepad features and Wii U Pro controllers.

So why all of the sudden is a bad thing?

He spoke about it positively in the past because they were stuck with it, you can't say "yeah you know what, this is a pretty bad idea really" when you have to push this thing for the next few years

Now they might be free of it they can be a little more honest about how much of a burden it was

 

[_Ryo_]

Hopefully this is a good sign NX wont have a gamepad 2.0

 

[Isomac]

This is a good point.

However, we are looking at a Zelda game that is using elements inspired by many other developers. Why not slow down time while the selection process takes place?

Even if had the best reason in the world to ditch touchscreen inventory, what about other alternatives like Gyroscope selection? Why fallback to a traditional, cumbersome and intrusive management system?

They have the tools in there to make a better system, yet they are not doing so for reasons with might never know offically.

Yeah it's hard to say. Like you mentioned they could still slow down time, when you give inputs from touchscreen etc.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Hopefully this is a good sign NX wont have a gamepad 2.0

There's pretty much no way it will. They have to be focused on keeping launch price down this time I'd think. At most I'd see the NX portable being able to work with it for second screen stuff and remote play. Maybe for Wii U BC as well if that's a thing at all.

 

[bachikarn]

This is odd because it completely contradicts NintendoLife's report. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ust_in_the_legend_of_zelda_breath_of_the_wild

Yeah, that is confusing to me. They are the only ones I saw report that there is a map on the pad. Did anyone else say it?

 

[daakusedo]

So they're dropping real time inventory management from wwhd in a game that's even more heavy on it?
What the hell...

 

[treason]

I found the gamepad to be so useful in twiglight princess and wind waker , that i couldnt imagine playing a zelda game without it . zelda + gamepad is a match made in heaven.

Deus Ex
wind waker
twighlight princess
batman

the game pad made all these games better .

 

[Neoxon]

The touchscreen allowed instant map jumping and analysis of map cover, plus the Miiverse implementation was used brilliantly.

This. I'm curious to how they'll handle map jumping or Inkstrikes without the GamePad. Obviously they'll keep the gyro controls, so no worries there.

 

[DarkConfidant]

This man is becoming my hero.

Give him a promotion.

Please save Nintendo with your acceptance of young talent and upending conventions.

Save us Aonuma!

 

[Diddy Kong]

I love Nintendo. I love my Wii U games.


I fucking despise the Gamepad. WHY CAN"T I PLAY VC GAMES WITH GAMECUBE CONTROLLERS?

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

Too bad nobody else at Nintendo had 2 seconds to come to this common sense conclusion.

Can't wait to see how they ruin playing games on the NX because using a controller and having fun makes too much sense for them.

They just HAVE to find some stupid gimmick to ruin it or else people will actually enjoy the games and buy them.

 

[PtM]

Wait, what does the tablet do in BOW?

I'd like to put GUI elements down there, like in Monster Hunter.

 

[SummitAve]

Wait, what does the tablet do in BOW?

Off screen play, at least. For the demos it just had the controls.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Only took how many years? If it doesn't work across the board then don't do it.

 

[Version 3.0]

I've always been baffled how this wasn't clear from time of concept.

And failing that, how could programming the phrase "Please look at the Gamepad" to appear on the TV (or vice-versa) not produce an epiphany?

 

[Version 3.0]

Iwata talked at a GDC before they announced the Wii U about the issues of having the primary TV being occupied and thus kids not being able to play the console. The GamePad and Off-TV play was supposed to address that issue. The problem is that it isn't really a problem in the West. Most people have multiple TVs. In Japan, where I believe it is a bigger issue, it wasn't a big enough selling point when most gamers have handhelds anyway to solve that problem.

I remember him saying that.

Funny story: The Atari 5200 owners manual addressed having multiple televisions:

Nintendo: solving problems from pre-1984...in 2012.

 

[oni-link]

I've always been baffled how this wasn't clear from time of concept.

And failing that, how could programming the phrase "Please look at the Gamepad" to appear on the TV (or vice-versa) not produce an epiphany?

It is amazing really, but I suppose they were hoping they would ride the tablet hype of 2012

I just hope they have learned their lesson

The kind of people who buy gaming hardware in 2016 are not the same as those who did so in 2006, no causal gamers will shell out hundreds of dollars on an NX, so they need to target the core, or they might as well give up now

The core don't want what they perceive as gimmicks, so if the NX doesn't launch with a standard controller as the default, it will struggle to sell Wii U numbers, let alone anything better than that

 

[P44]

Pro Controller confirmed!



Aonuma: Do you want to add a feature where you blow into the gamepad to call your horse?!

Programmer: Oh God, No!

Aonuma: Well Hurry up!

Aonuma: "SHIT SHIT HE'S DOING QA QUICK LET'S GET THIS SHIT FEATURE COMPLETE"

 

[Father_Brain]

It is amazing really, but I suppose they were hoping they would ride the tablet hype of 2012

I just hope they have learned their lesson

The kind of people who buy gaming hardware in 2016 are not the same as those who did so in 2006, no causal gamers will shell out hundreds of dollars on an NX, so they need to target the core, or they might as well give up now

The core don't want what they perceive as gimmicks, so if the NX doesn't launch with a standard controller as the default, it will struggle to sell Wii U numbers, let alone anything better than that

Wii U most likely didn't have anything to do with attempting to ride tablet hype. iPad didn't launch until 2010, when it would have been deep in R&D, and we all know how insular Nintendo is.

More likely, it was just an attempt to adapt the DS concept to a home console.

 

[Movalpolos]

He spoke about it positively in the past because they were stuck with it, you can't say "yeah you know what, this is a pretty bad idea really" when you have to push this thing for the next few years

Now they might be free of it they can be a little more honest about how much of a burden it was

Pretty much this.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Wii U most likely didn't have anything to do with attempting to ride tablet hype. iPad didn't launch until 2010, when it would have been deep in R&D, and we all know how insular Nintendo is.

More likely, it was just an attempt to adapt the DS concept to a home console.

This has been pointed out to Oni many times but he refuses to accept.

Nintendo has been contemplating the integration of a screen in a controller for decades and it was actively researching it before the Wii release even. The Wii U is not an attempt to cash in in the raise of the tablet popularity, however, it is plausible that it gave Nintendo a little more security when releasing the Gamepad.

To this day i don't see how someone can consider a controller with a screen a tablet... is the DS a mini tablet with two screens then? XD

On topic:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=207341251

I don't have the sources handy but as I understand it he's given two reasons:

lda-breath-wild-aonuma-demo"] interview with WIRED[/URL] he said:
"We realized that having something on the GamePad and looking back and forth between the TV screen and the GamePad actually disrupts the gameplay, and the concentration that the game player may be experiencing. You have your car’s GPS system on your dash. If you had it down in your lap, you’re going to get into an accident!"


Compare and contrast the above statements with what Aonuma said after The Game Awards:

"Recently, I've taken to relying on the map on my smart phone when I'm out walking in a place I'm not familiar with. A map isn't something you keep tucked away in your bag, it's by holding it in your hand and being able to constantly check it as you move forward step by step that gives you that sense of adventure."

At once he taught the map in the Gamepad enhanced the sense of adventure. So he's the bible for the Gamepad been useless, but not when talking about character design decisions for the game at his helm.

XD

 

[CambriaRising]

Someone from Nintendo finally saying something that we've been saying since 2011's reveal of the stupid thing. Props.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

It's great for maps and inventory.
That's it.

 

[Vidiot]

Is motion aiming in zelda U? Loved it in WW and TP HD.

 

[PKrockin]

Is motion aiming in zelda U? Loved it in WW and TP HD.

Yes.

 

[DOWN]

The gimmick effect. Nintendo fails to justify their two screens.

 

[synce]

Putting the map on the gamepad is one of the main reasons I never finished WW on Wii U. Never thought something so seemingly small can frustrate me so much.

 

[tr1p1ex]

One thing for sure is the Gamepad wasn't compelling enough to drive sales above the ~13 million mark in nearly 4 years.

Anyone disagree?

 

[Vidiot]

Yes.

Cool, thanks! Enough reason to justify using the game pad for me.

 

[EatinOlives]

People will label me crazy but I fully plan on playing this game with the Pro Controller (assuming it supports it). I just don't find the gamepad comfortable enough, and constantly looking down has proven to be more of a hassle than it's worth.

 

[treason]

Zelda without gamepad functionality is like playing a metroid without Wii remote and nuChuck . A real step backwards

 

[oni-link]

This has been pointed out to Oni many times but he refuses to accept.

Nintendo has been contemplating the integration of a screen in a controller for decades and it was actively researching it before the Wii release even. The Wii U is not an attempt to cash in in the raise of the tablet popularity, however, it is plausible that it gave Nintendo a little more security when releasing the Gamepad.

What has? I was speculating, which is what you go on to do later on in your own reply, coming to the same conclusion (second bolded part)

Doesn't matter that they were thinking about it for decades, a bad and poorly thought out idea in 1996 is still a bad and poorly thought out idea in 2016

The amazing thing was that it was only Nintendo that didn't see it, I don't think anyone, from experts to consumers, thought the Wii U would be a success, and that was an opinion you could form minutes after seeing the second screen focus

The great thing about this thread is that at last someone from Nintendo is also saying it, we can start to hope they won't shoot themselves in the foot again

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

People will label me crazy but I fully plan on playing this game with the Pro Controller (assuming it supports it). I just don't find the gamepad comfortable enough, and constantly looking down has proven to be more of a hassle than it's worth.

Not crazy at all, playing SS with wii motion was absolutely awful in my experience and felt like a complete gimmick, The U gamepad feels exactly the same with most of the games I've found as well. It was no doubt something that the devs were forced to tow the line on and shows in most games where it's used as an afterthought at best.

Breaking away to use a device while playing is a huge distraction and it's not fun.

 

[DSix]

I hope it means Nintendo is truly done with the multiple screen nonsense.