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Eurogamer: NX = portable w/ carts, detachable controllers, Tegra, TV Out, no BC, Sept

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This preconception keep popping up here. Do you have any kind of study to back up this?

Literally just look at the lists of best selling handheld games. It's not the "console lite" games topping the lists. There may be many reasons why the PSP and Vita couldn't touch the DS or 3DS with a 20 foot pole, but one of them is absolutely the focus on true handheld games version "console on the go". People don't want 100 hour open world action games, they want Pokémon and Mario games with short levels.
 

big_z

Member
So it's some kind of hybrid like I suggested 3 years ago?

funny thing is I sent early specs I heard form industry folk a year ago to ign voice chat. its basically the same as what got out yesterday. only thing that wasn't known was the detachable controllers... oh and it runs custom android for OS, though that might have changed.

I posted some muddled hints on gaf too but stopped when people were getting angry it used arm and wasn't a ps4 destroyer. itll be interesting to see if the delay was in order to use the newer tegra chip like DF thinks. I haven't really kept up but I don't think that's the case.
 

Shiggy

Member
The Wii U may not have been, but those games were. If the concept of the NX proves to be more attractive than the Wii U, then it makes sense to build on the popularity of those games to a potentially larger audience.

You fail to see that a video game system becomes a success or failure because of its games. It's pretty clear that you won't create a success story with a lineup based on Wii U ports/sequels.
 
When was the last time Nintendo released multiple SKUs for their hardware like that? They're going to force the dock + handheld on everyone throat whether you want it or not. It was the same for the WiiU. Not everyone was the fan of WiiU pad but they're forced to use it anyway.

If you don't want to use the handheld, just keep it permanently attached to the dock and think of them as an underpowered home console.

The Wii U isn't the same. The games, at least initially, were designed entirely around the gamepad as an essential part, so it made no sense to bundle it separately.
The NX would be different - they could bundle it various ways and it would made no difference to the games because they have to work with either configuration.
 

MANGOD

Banned
As a handheld this sounds great. However as a console im not sold and my interest has nosedived. Not interested in handheld gaming, my ds and 3ds have sat in a draw after being played for a couple of month's after purchase.
Goddamit Reggie I wanted Zelda on the nx to be beast! Now im going to hold onto my wii u
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
When was the last time Nintendo released multiple SKUs for their hardware like that? They're going to force the dock + handheld on everyone throat whether you want it or not. It was the same for the WiiU. Not everyone was the fan of WiiU pad but they're forced to use it anyway.

If you don't want to use the handheld, just keep it permanently attached to the dock and think of them as an underpowered home console.

Well this is meant to be a new approach for consoles according to Nintendo, so looking back on what they've done before may not tell us much about what they will do in the future.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Btw, is the detachable controllers based on this patent, right?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140121023.pdf
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=811351

nintendo_handheld_patent_1.png

I still wonder if there will be also the free form patent in use:


And of course the SCD, especially:



If NX will be all of those three, I'll be excited.
 

deleted

Member
I presume the detachable controllers would have scroll wheel shoulder buttons.

I can't really imagine how they could accomplish this while still having good ergonomics..

What's the issue with it being two halves? If it's got all the same inputs as a normal controller, being split just gives you some options for how you hold it.

The ergonomics for me. I didn't love the wiimote on the side, the dpad was too small and the whole thing didn't feel good. Considering that the NX can't be too big when they wanna make it a portable device, having two detachable controllers that function for both 2 player mode and a 'real' controller when put together - it sounds like a mess with either not enough buttons or too many and shitty ergonomics.

But I'll wait and see I guess...

Edit:

I can see Nintendo going with two SKUs - one with a dock for the TV and one without. Not too confusing and it enables a much lower price-point for handheld only. If they sell it as a handheld for 250$ it will fail.
They need to have a 1 in front of the price if they want similar success to the 3DS at least or they will miss out on most of the kids market.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Literally just look at the lists of best selling handheld games. It's not the "console lite" games topping the lists. There may be many reasons why the PSP and Vita couldn't touch the DS or 3DS with a 20 foot pole, but one of them is absolutely the focus on true handheld games version "console on the go". People don't want 100 hour open world action games, they want Pokémon and Mario games with short levels.

And people will still get Pokemon and Mario games with short levels. And on top of that they will get also 100 hour open world action games (which you assume people don't want based on?). What's the issue with that? Are you arguing that more games are a bad thing? Or what?
 
Not quite. I don't think Nintendo is gonna want to crowd their launch with too many games. They'll want to pace them out, give them each their time to shine. I do expect this to be Nintendo's best launch / post-launch ever, though.

That's not quite what I meant. Both the Wii U and 3DS had software droughts in their launch window, having the software of two libraries would pace releases to a far greater extent.
 
The vita is more ancient than ancient regarding mobile tech these days. It's like saying the DS can not possibly have a good battery life because the n64 have similar graphics but required a wall outlet.

Not really? It may be near apples to oranges, but you're comparing apples to barbecues.

Vita may be heavily dated, but there sure as hell hasn't been improvements in high-spec ARM devices in the past few years to the extent that a .5TFLOPS device running graphically intensive, open-world games is magically going to last several hours on a single battery charge.
 
As a handheld this sounds great. However as a console im not sold and my interest has nosedived. Not interested in handheld gaming, my ds and 3ds have sat in a draw after being played for a couple of month's after purchase.
Goddamit Reggie I wanted Zelda on the nx to be beast! Now im going to hold onto my wii u

I'm just speculating here (though I believe others have jumped to this conclusion too), but what if the "dock" for this device provided it with additional computing power that allowed it to display games at higher resolutions, with better textures etc.

Essentially when docked it would act as though it were a regular home console, but then when undocked you would still have the same gameplay experience albeit at a lower resolution or lower graphical fidelity.

Would that interest you? It would certainly interest me!
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Not really? It may be near apples to oranges, but you're comparing apples to barbecues.

Vita may be heavily dated, but there sure as hell hasn't been improvements in high-spec ARM devices in the past few years to the extent that a .5TFLOPS device running graphically intensive, open-world games is magically going to last several hours on a single battery charge.

Good thing that the ARM processors aren't the biggest power consumers in this case, no?
 
This is the perfect strategy, if it fails they can always go third party on mobiles, since the tech is the same.

Better yet, it's an easy way to encourage 3rd party support as any game for the NX can be easily ported to mobile and vis versa.

They may have lost Western AAA, but I think Nintendo will be swimming in Indies.

Thinking about it more, I will be more likely to buy something like this (if the indie 3rd party support is good) than a traditional Nintendo console.
 
When was the last time Nintendo released multiple SKUs for their hardware like that? They're going to force the dock + handheld on everyone throat whether you want it or not. It was the same for the WiiU. Not everyone was the fan of WiiU pad but they're forced to use it anyway.

If you don't want to use the handheld, just keep it permanently attached to the dock and think of them as an underpowered home console.

But they also can't afford another 3DS style launch with an overpriced system, they really need this thing to hit the ground running, and the extra dock hardware sounds like it'll really jack up the price. They could end up in a situation like the Xbox One with its mandatory Kinect pack-in making the launch price uncompetitive until they were able to dump it.
 
You fail to see that a video game system becomes a success or failure because of its games. It's pretty clear that you won't create a success story with a lineup based on Wii U ports/sequels.

It's a combination of both. Look at the PS4 - piss poor launch software, but did well off the back of "It's a really powerful new Playstation with the promise of more to come later".
If they launch the NX and say "It's a handheld and a console you can play new versions of established games like Zelda, Splatoon and Mario Maker on", that might be enough to get them off the starting blocks in a much stronger way than they did with the Wii U because it's the combination of a stronger core concept and proven successful software.
 

UberTag

Member
They'll probably sell the power cord separately.
Why include the HDMI cable then? Every home must have a half-dozen or so of those.
They should leave that out of the package, too.

Also, make the manuals digital. Everyone has a tablet - we can access that thing online.
And, instead of a box, Nintendo could save money by wrapping each system in discarded newspaper.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Literally just look at the lists of best selling handheld games. It's not the "console lite" games topping the lists. There may be many reasons why the PSP and Vita couldn't touch the DS or 3DS with a 20 foot pole, but one of them is absolutely the focus on true handheld games version "console on the go". People don't want 100 hour open world action games, they want Pokémon and Mario games with short levels.

NX will get both libraries so I fail to see the problem.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
If this this is around 200 $ or less i honestly don't see how it's sporting even a standard X1 considering you need to add a screen, 2 gamepads, a dock with (supposedly) charging capabilities and cooling, HDMI cable.

X2 custom would be 350$ range easily.

I don't understand how devkits are OC X1, do Nintendo seriously think they can get out with a 300$+ handeld in this market? Or do they hope to publicize this as a home console first and foremost to convince people to buy it? Or maybe they believed Nvidia's lies about the capabilities and cost of a custom (gutted) Pascal-Tegra ?
 
Good thing that the ARM processors aren't the biggest power consumers in this case, no?

... Yes, I know ARM consumes less power than other architectures. But I literally JUST said in the post you responded to that ARM hasn't improved to such magical levels that we can yet get something like Breath of the Wild to run on it with anywhere near a decent battery life, regardless of how much better ARM is than other architectures in low-power mobile computing.

Just try playing a high-spec game on a modern cell phone with a newer ARM CPU and even a relatively large battery and tell me how long it lasts. You're not going to see a .5TFLOP device running high-end, graphically intensive, open world games running on a portable device without draining the battery rapidly, regardless of the architecture. Unless this thing has an ENORMOUS battery to compensate, its battery life is going to be shit, period. And such a battery is going to mean much longer charge times, and a device that's both larger and heavier. None of which is good for portability. And then of course there's Nintendo's somewhat poor track record in the area, sacrificing the 3DS's battery life in favor of size and, much more egregiously, shipping the Wii U gamepad with a deliberately undersized battery.
 

legend166

Member
Literally just look at the lists of best selling handheld games. It's not the "console lite" games topping the lists. There may be many reasons why the PSP and Vita couldn't touch the DS or 3DS with a 20 foot pole, but one of them is absolutely the focus on true handheld games version "console on the go". People don't want 100 hour open world action games, they want Pokémon and Mario games with short levels.

It's impossible to compete with smart phones in the 'pick up and play for 5 minutes' genre. That ship has well and truly sailed. They can't compete on price, reach or convenience. That genie is out of the bottle and it's never going back in.
 
If this this is around 200 $ or less i honestly don't see how it's sporting even a standard X1 considering you need to add a screen, 2 gamepads, a dock with (supposedly) charging capabilities and cooling, HDMI cable.

X2 custom would be 350$ range easily.

I don't understand how devkits are OC X1, do Nintendo seriously think they can get out with a 300$+ handeld in this market? Or do they hope to publicize this as a home console first and foremost to convince people to buy it? Or maybe they believed Nvidia's lies about the capabilities and cost of a custom (gutted) Pascal-Tegra ?

It is exploting the market of people who want a console that is also something their kids can also pick up and smash.

I'm not sure that is a large market. Given 3rd party support seems incredibly unlikely, you only have left Nintendo making games for the kids who would not be allowed to touch it.

A wii so they can play mario when they have finished playing pokemon on their phone seems like a better investment.

Feels grim.
 
NX will get both libraries so I fail to see the problem.

Which then diminishes the benefits of two in one. Sure, it'll mean you have one less console to buy, but it also just means you have handheld games that can be played on a console, and console games that can be played on a handheld, but in the end both are better played in a specific form factor. Which completely negates the argument going around that "this frees developers up for making more games, due to not needing to make a handheld friendly game AND a console friendly game". Since, if they want to take advantage of both kinds of fan... They would still need to do that. Or just pick one or the other period, which diminishes choices for people who lean one way or another. Or make games that specific target some kind of amalgam console by trying to play to both the strengths of consoles and handhelds, which doesn't seem like it will work really well.

So literally at best the main benefit is literally that you're only buying one device instead of two. But of course, if you wanted only one or the other, that's not a benefit, and if you wanted a handheld, you're probably now spending more than ever, for a device that plays less to the benefits of a handheld.
 

Skyzard

Banned
Knowing how Nintendo likes to cheap out on hardware parts and needs to keep its prices down, I will wait to see battery life reviews before sinking any money into this.
 
It's impossible to compete with smart phones in the 'pick up and play for 5 minutes' genre. That ship has well and truly sailed. They can't compete on price, reach or convenience. That genie is out of the bottle and it's never going back in.

Well, I mean, exactly. I asked in my first post what the benefit of making it a largely portable first console is, when the portable market is dying rapidly in favor of phones and tablets. It seems like they're now just diluting the console experience with handheld stuff, which doesn't seem like a particularly good thing for console fans OR the remaining handheld gamers.
 

Scrawnton

Member
Well, I mean, exactly. I asked in my first post what the benefit of making it a largely portable first console is, when the portable market is dying rapidly in favor of phones and tablets. It seems like they're now just diluting the console experience with handheld stuff, which doesn't seem like a particularly good thing for console fans OR the remaining handheld gamers.

If I could play an HD version of my 3ds library on my tv now, I'd be blown away as to how awesome it would be. This product is exactly what some people want. Most handheld games are even deeper than console games, despite not being open world.
 

orioto

Good Art™
I'll repost my own theory cause it seems to convince many :p

While i was thinking about that thing that bugs me, about the two detachable controllers and what would be the concept around that, i had some kind of revelation.

Cause i was lwatching the digital foundry vid and the guy talked about the two pads as if it was so huge to have two pads out of the box, and i was like.. Are you fucking kidding me.. Are we all pretending there is anything new about giving away a secondary pad ? I mean it's just a good deal, but local multiplayer was there all along..

Then i got it.
Maybe the NX is reallly centered about the idea of a completely easy to transport, (on the "go" you know), self sufficient device that allows for super fun things between friends, in a living room, in the street, in a park, at a friend's house... Maybe that's the whole marketing idea here. It's like the Wii was at some point, a family friendly device for immediate fun, except it's super flexible, everyone can have his own and play all sort of things, (and that means also why not, AR multiplayer board games for exemple). Like.. The NX would be, more like a set of card than a console in the spirit.

So you could play with a friend everywhere by docking the screen somewhere (maybe it has some kind of ipad skin that can become a support you know, that couldl actually make it pretty fashionable), but why not imagining you could also for example plug one to a tv, and having a friend come with his NX, and you would be able to play a 4 player game on tv, maybe more. And why not use it for their infamous asynchronous (is that it) gameplay, with some players on the tv and some others on their NW screen.

Think about it. We know Nintendo always try again and again. What they failed on GBA, then DS, then with the WiiU. All those multiplayer concepts with different configurations... They can finally have it, with the proper marketing.

Just one device, really small, simple, and it can be used for so many things to have fun with your friends. And those two detachable pads probably have gyros to, so that little NX device can also create Wii fun for everyone on the go. What if a NX can recognize multiple controllers, so you can for exemple be in a park with your friends, and everyone detaches the controllers and put the NX on the ground, and everyone is playing Just Dance in the wild..

basically, sorry i'm long.. But yeah the NX would be centered around the idea that it's super small, simple, cheap, and can be used for so many gaming ideas between friends (everything Ubi has been asking for) everywhere.

That's learning everything from the Wii, but also from Monster Hunter and the whole community aspect of the biggest gaming success in Japan. You make people play in group.

I can already see the 80's commercial. I can also see a Wii like sucess if they have the right software with it (some genius multiplayer party game on the go).

---

And just to post a little exemple of the kind of thing that will make it huge and super mainstream.

Imagine you got kids, 2 kids, and you're in a dense traffic stuck in the car, it's raining. They're bored. They can take their NX, unplugged the controllers, put the screen between them on the seat, and play some game, i don't know, some tennis game on the screen with their two controllers.

Do you see the 80' commercial to ? With the 2 kids playing at the back of the car (they kept their belt of course!)?

I hope you read that in Don Draper's voice!


---

While i'm at it, here are other potential (but maybe not) ideas of gameplay for that concept.

Keep one pad attached to the screen, that you hold in one hand, and have the other one free in your other hand, that you can use as a gun, or a sword i don't know, or to point things. Than now create a multiplayer game using AR where you're interacting with friends in the wild.

Now, do that with Pokemon. (Like you gives order with the free pad and motion control while you're looking at the AR pokemons interacting on screen).

Link that to Pokemon GO.

BOOM, NX sells 50 millions

I really think that configuration, of a small portable device with two pads and gyros, could be the thing Nintendo always wanted. Some sort of infinity creative device that reinvent itself all the time.

Just think about it, one pad plugged, and the other free, with motion control, and think about the game design ideas.
 

EVH

Member
So, listing my thougths here on this thing and knowing about how Nintendo does, even if I still don't believe this is the real deal because Eurogamer could be just dropping what they heard as they say in both article and video. I'm on the pessimistic/realistic side:

- Tegra X1 produces too much heat for a handheld and actually Shield has active cooling system. That would explain the fan in the devkits, which also were more powerful than the final release for Wii U. This means that most probably when in portable mode, the machine will be underclocked and normal-clocked when on the dock. Probably the dock has the active cooling system in it.

- That basically discards Tegra X2 as it is also a new untested technology in gaming even if its been runing on driving interfaces since january. It makes more sense to go with X2? Yes. Is Nintendo and they usually don't make fucking sense taking decisions in hardware? Also yes.

- The great Nintendo deal with Nvidia sounds bullshit to me. Don't expect to be true and don't expect the machine to be cheap.

- Not enought power to run key big games like Dark Souls 3, for example, so hardly a machine that will receive many quality third party support. Another case of Wii shovelware third party support here, probably focusing on mobile games that will not be free as in smartphones because of no posibility of embebed advertisement.

- The attachable controllers sounds cluncky as fuck and prone to get loose or be uncomfortable. This kind of puzzle-machines are also confusing for casuals where they can just play with the tablet, a device with lots of more options and posibilities than just a gaming console. I mean, even some of the ideas here for how the detachable controllers work are hilarious with extra docks, half controllers that get together when removing the screen, and stuff that ends breaking sooner than later.

- Finally we will see capacitive touch screen with quality resolution LCD panel at 540p as it scales perfectly to 1080p.

If all what Eurogamer says is true, the machine sounds like another hit and miss example from Nintendo.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
too long.


What you describe as a innovative (two people go out and suddendly they have a device that let them play together) is something that a phone can easily do. The only reason there aren't many phone games that use 2-players wireless mode is because there's close to 0 demand. 99% of people who play on the phone on trips do it by themselves.

Like it's a cute concept but then you realize that everyone has a smartphone and people could easily make co-op games on them but just never bothered because the market for said games is way too little on a place as competitive as a phone app store.
 

Polari

Member
Sounds good. Tegra is more than adequate for the games Nintendo produces. Unifying the platforms means there should be a steady stream of games.
 
I think that the dock will be the key piece of hardware. It will probably boost the power of the NX when attached to it, together with extra cooling. So that is the reason why it is totally needed to play on TV instead of the NX using just some streaming system from your device to your TV.

I wonder why nobody is talking about the dock itself as a BASIC part of the machine.
 

doemaaan

Member
Literally says "no BC" in the thread title dude :p. As in no backwards compatibility
Aiyayai... My fault. I meant as in whether or not Wii-U or 3DS titles will be available as downloadable software at some point. Ya know, If anythings been heard through the grapevine since yesterday...

Been holding out on both systems for that reason.
 

Scrawnton

Member
In my opinion, not competing with PS4 and making a powerful handheld first with TV functionality is probably the best move for Nintendo. This isn't Nintendo saying they don't want to make console games anymore, this is Nintendo saying they have no need to make Nintendo games with high end specs, which isn't really necessary given their games. (Just look at Wii U and see how heir franchise look, here already gorgeous).
 
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