Support NeoGAF

[UncleSporky]

Hey I said this a couple pages ago...

Not sure why the mildest expression of dislike, boredom, disinterest, disappointment is now considered "hate," "vitriol," "rage."

I guess I have some new words to add to the list.

What is up with this incredible hyperbole?

But yeah it's just easy to accuse NMS of being the devil

Every single game can be deconstructed similarly. The thing about busywork is that to some people it is fun. Why are we shitting on people's fun? I find some forms of busywork relaxing, calming, and fun. Why does that need to be demonized?

Saying you don't like something is one thing.
Shitting all over something you don't like is something else entirely.

This game is being shit on, by people who aren't interested in it, don't understand it, or for reasons of their own internal hype thought it was a game that it isn't.

By continually shitting on something it actually creates a bad mood for those people who enjoy the game. There are only so many times and so many ways you can say something is shit before moving on. We get it. This happens with a lot of games, not just this one, but specifically this one is getting a lot of shit for whatever reason.

Criticism is one thing, this game is not getting criticism, it's getting attacked and the relentless attacks on this game actually do ruin the enjoyment of the game by those who actually like it (there are many who do). I guess I am just asking people to stop being jerks and actually be respectful about other's enjoyment. Probably going to fall on deaf ears around here, but it has to be said.

Look, if someone says something like...I dunno, "the game is basically a walking simulator," why would you associate the strongest possible language with that sort of criticism? You're projecting. You're equating "walking simulator" with "fucking garbage" when in fact "fucking garbage" was not said.

When the mildest of criticism is equated with the worst possible thing that can be said about a product, you demonstrate that you're over-attached to that particular entertainment product, as well as thin-skinned, or a poor reader at the very least.

 

[tuna_love]

He showed a lot of restraint in how he decided to approach everything that surrounds this game

ps3ud0 8)

sean murray?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Did you even check the conversation ? i was arguing about the "what do you do " argument ?
you are on "the marker" part of my post ignoring the rest of the post

Good job , sir

Let's clarify a few things.

1. There are dozens of other good exploration/survival games out there. I have never seen one of those plagued by the "what do you do?" question like NMS. That should suggest to you that maybe there is something peculiar about NMS either in the marketing of the game or in actual dearth of meaningful activities to engage in.

2. The "what do you do" question has nothing to do with lack of appreciation for exploration or hatred of games without markers. Minecraft is one of the most popular games in the world and is about as freeform as can be. People understand the concept. Stop trying to make it out to be some esoteric gamecraft.

3. To return to this gem:

Just admit , you don't like exploration games without a "marker" telling you where to go and move on.

No, no one has to admit anything. There are people who enjoy freeform exploration games who also think NMS is boring as watching paint dry. That part of your post is particularly bullshit as it waves away critique or questions about the game with a reply of "you don't like this kind of game," which is just a garbage line of defense.

4. Your entire post is nonsense anyways because No Man's Sky has markers EVERYWHERE. There are markers for points of interests. There are markers for resources.

TL;DR: Give me a frigging break.

 

[brau]

TL;DR: Give me a frigging break.

I support your claim! I hail you King of the North!!!

 

[inky]

 

[R_thanatos]

I think he's just talking about your post full of bullshit.



When you essentially say different strokes for different folks and then go on to tell someone to admit to something that isn't true, it's a bad look. Especially when you say people as if we all got together and decided what we like, because you don't know why millions of different people are playing the game.

I love exploring in games. I turned off all map markers in Red Dead Redemption, Witcher 3 and just went around to find interesting things. I've spent MANY hours just exploring around in Eliteangerous. That shit is interesting to explore for me.

NMS is boring as shit. You like it? That's great, I'm sure many do, but if you try and excuse the many interviews and marketing that was done from HG and Sony and blame consumers it comes off as bullshit. It's not the same game they said it was gonna be. It has many elements of what they said it was gonna be, but it's not the same game, just admit it.

And that's my argument really.
Listen , i'll admit that my wording wasn't the greatest.

I'll say it again in clearer words :
About the markers:
From basicly the start , you can ignore the game plot and scenario and just explore , you can ignore the markers if you want .. You can play the game without the scanner and that's one aspect of the game that was tied in my "what do you do argument".
Sure there are plenty of markers if you show them , but you have to show them or play in a certain way with the bypasses in order to see them. It's not an objective based game in the traditionnal style.

About the what do you do :

This bring me to this part of my argumentation, The things you do in NMS are things that were told beforehand and in the promotionnal material. The game had 4 things that HG were basing the gameplay on.. on despite what might find of the final product , they all are here.

About sony and the HG marketing:

I don't know what sony has to do in this situation, IMO

HG , however , and sean were vague in many interviews , but on thing they said is that they hoped players would explore and share their discoveries, they were also vague on plenty of features , like the NPCs untill they were done. The closest i've seen in this thread is the fact that some people didn't know it would be a ressource heavy management game, witch is fair. Otherwise i don't know what is the problem with the pre-release material.

Their answers to the complains weren't great , i assume ..but I don't echo those complains , since i do enjoy the game so far.

About the hype and the disapointment this game has generated:
What happenned to jim and his website is stupid and shouldn't happen , i've said this already and sometimes fanboyism take things too far. It's fair to be disapointed in NMS , especially given that it crashes on some pc rigs and some PS4 models.
I do feel that it's stupid to hope on some hate train or to pull fuel on the fire and that's certainly what is happenning .. witch lead to plenty of exageration. ( i might be guilty of this, but on the other side it happens too )

Hopefully this will clear things up

 

[Tecnniqe]

You.

Yes, you. The one screaming, "Jim is so rude!" and "Why linger so much on a game that he didn't enjoy?" and other slurs I dare not mention.

Tread lightly.

You are one. We are hundreds, thousands. Millions. You aren't just IN the minority; you ARE the minority.

I don't feel awkward or anxious watching the Jimquisition around others, and your words don't affect me. Many others, however, are coming out of their shells for the first time in their lives. This is the first time many are enjoying the sharp gaming analysis that has been shot and rendered for us - and it IS sharp. Incredibly so. DON'T ruin this for them. We Jimquisition fans may have our differences, but we will not hesitate to come to the aid of our fellow Boglin lovers, especially against someone who so virulently slurs that which has brought us all together.

Don't take this the wrong way. I don't hate you. I don't fear you.

I pity you.

I ask you politely to cease your unnecessary cries for attention, and instead invite you to join our ranks. Stop watching Pewdiepie, load up some Jimquisition, and breathe in the splendour and the amazement of your first video, and then, maybe, just maybe, you'll see what you've been so hopelessly searching for this whole time.

Oh dear

 

[SilverManson]

Disclaimer: I like NMS. Like, 7/10 like. I enjoy walks on the beach, movies and chocolate.

I dislike death threats, DDoS-ing and Justin Bieber.

That said, That post was in /r/Gaming so surely we aren't taking it seriously?

 

[Moon_frogger]

In the long run, definitely. The NMS fanbase will fade out but "git gud" will forever ring on on our heads.

Got gud is just a joke. It's usually followed by one of the most helpful communities in existence doing everything they can to help new or returning players with whatever it is they need. I say this as a casual dark souls fan who has spent a ridiculous amount of time in the various sub Reddits. I actually searched 'git good' on each dark souls sub Reddit and couldn't find a single example in hundreds of thousands of posts that used the term seriously or malicious. I actually got permabanned in another sub Reddit for pointing this out and asking someone to provide me with an example of the term used maliciously. No discussion or debate, just a ban, probably from someone who hates the series. I personally think dark souls detractors, those who have an irrational, passionate dislike for the series are much worse than the actual fan base.

 

[JoJo UK]

A lot of people want to believe in procedural generation. A lot of people want to believe in perceived underdog developers. A lot of people like space. It makes sense that it whipped a bunch of people up into a fervor.

I kind of couldn't resist...

https://soundcloud.com/jimquisition/dramatic-reading-to-the-no-mans-sky-haters

Sweet baby jesus.... I think we can close up shop now, the internet is indeed complete.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I kind of couldn't resist...

https://soundcloud.com/jimquisition/dramatic-reading-to-the-no-mans-sky-haters

Is the background music from Battlestar Galactica?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Is the background music from Battlestar Galactica?

yes, 100%.

 

[Krappadizzle]

yes, 100%.

I'm such a nerd.

 

[Fury451]

I think it's interesting that several videos and observations on this game's reception have commented on the fact that the hype wasn't necessarily driven by developers overpromising, but rather that everybody's imaginations were filling in the blanks on the possibilities of what the game could or would be.

It turns out in reality there really aren't any blanks, what they presented is what you got, it's just that what you got maybe becomes quickly shallow and repetitive to some.

 

[Krappadizzle]

It turns out in reality there really aren't any blanks, what they presented is what you got, it's just that what you got maybe becomes quickly shallow and repetitive to some.

If you only counted the trailers and not the in-depth interviews amongst different magazines, Youtube and Colbert you'd be mostly right.

 

[Bloodporne]

I think everyone should be able to agree on the fact that SOMETHING went wrong in its marketing somewhere, this doesn't happen to every fucking game or even a small fraction of games.

I severely doubt that a huge amount of gamers experienced 'what do you do?'-ism all at once for no apparent reason. Why, when or how, I have no clue but obviously something went awry and I really don't see why even someone who loves the game would rally against admitting that.

I didn't really follow the whole circus at all until very close to release, so I don't have an overarching opinion on it either way. From the footage I have seen since however, there seems to be a lot of 'maybe', 'you might', 'don't wanna spoil its' from the devs which I'm sure didn't help to fuel people's imaginations.

 

[Auctopus]

I'm not a huge Jimquisition fan. I like Jimpressions but I can't really stand the "persona" he puts on in these.

However, he hit the nail on the head so many fucking times in this video he built a house.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Now I'm going to be heading home and looking for my brothers boglins to make mint on this new boglin revival...

"You aren't just in the IN minority. You ARE the minority!"

Spoiler

What is the difference?

They're implying only one person doesn't like the game and is vocal about it. In other words it is another insult along with the call of duty name drop.

The difference is like so:
In the minority: 7 people look right 3 people look left. The 3 people are in the minority
Are the minority: 9 people look right, 1 person looks left. That one person makes up the minority.

 

[Irminsul]

I'll say it again in clearer words :
About the markers:
From basicly the start , you can ignore the game plot and scenario and just explore , you can ignore the markers if you want .. You can play the game without the scanner and that's one aspect of the game that was tied in my "what do you do argument".
Sure there are plenty of markers if you show them , but you have to show them or play in a certain way with the bypasses in order to see them. It's not an objective based game in the traditionnal style.

Yes, and if you ignore all markers, you'll die in about five minutes because your life support is depleted. If even that, provided you're on a hostile planet.

I mean, I can turn off all markers in The Witcher 3, go exploring and probably won't be bothered about non-exploring stuff far longer than that. And I'll probably also find something actually interesting and meaningful.

 

[MrCunningham]

I kind of couldn't resist...

https://soundcloud.com/jimquisition/dramatic-reading-to-the-no-mans-sky-haters

Truly the Lil' B of videogaming.

 

[Kaako]

Just watched this. Good stuff, Jim.
This is coming from someone who has been playing this for a week straight now and is freaking hooked to this game. A fan of the game who actually plays/enjoys the game instead of sending death threats and DDOSing like a sad little useless cunt.

Keep making quality content and I continue supporting. You do you Jim!

 

[Jim Sterling]

Just to address the accusations of baiting and fanning the flames...

As I said in the video, I'm past the point of compromise. I was happy enough to post my review and move on, but after what happened as a result, I am in no way shape or form inclined to be nice, to be tactful, or to be quiet.

Given everything, I've shown what I believe to be a good deal of restraint. Yeah, I've made some jokes about NMS directly, but I make jokes about every game, including ones I enjoy. And in this case, the jokes were made as a direct response to the DDoS and were nowhere near as vicious as I was leaning toward making them.

The idea jokes are comparable to harassment or deserve to be *met* with harassment, by the way, is part of why social media is such a fucking scumpit these days.

 

[Acerac]

He raises valid points but I think he is being way too critical on NMS as a whole.

This video isn't criticizing NMS at all, so much as the fans it has attracted.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

no no no no no no nooo

no no no no NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOO

*cringes out of existence*

 

[Ryuuga]

What is up with this incredible hyperbole?

Look, if someone says something like...I dunno, "the game is basically a walking simulator," why would you associate the strongest possible language with that sort of criticism? You're projecting. You're equating "walking simulator" with "fucking garbage" when in fact "fucking garbage" was not said.

When the mildest of criticism is equated with the worst possible thing that can be said about a product, you demonstrate that you're over-attached to that particular entertainment product, as well as thin-skinned, or a poor reader at the very least.

Just wanted to say I really appreciate this post especially after reading the Federation Force cameo thread. It feels like I've seen way too many occasions where muted responses are overly emphasized to berate those being critical.

 

[convo]

That recent comparison clip he posted is rather confounding to me since i saw that the clip got like thousands of retweets on twitter. People can say downgrade but why make a comparison to a random clip of a goofy creature from a humor reddit post and make it look like that's all the game is? There are bigger creatures that can look better in that game. It makes me think that the whole concept of procedural generation means absolutley nothing at all to people going down on it.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

That recent comparison clip he posted is rather confounding to me since i saw that the clip got like thousands of retweets on twitter. People can say downgrade but why make a comparison to a random clip of a goofy creature from a humor reddit post and make it look like that's all the game is? There are bigger creatures that can look better in that game. It makes me think that the whole concept of procedural generation means absolutley nothing at all to people going down on it.

It's really funny, but really misleading.

The big creatures are apparently out there and really rare, which will make their discovery that much more of an event. Makes me wish they installed an algorithm that guaranteed you'd run into a giant creature planet early on to shut people up, but then people would be screaming foul on the "everyone's journey is different" angle.

 

[Dylan]

Whenever I come across situations like these, on youtube or on a podcast or on a message board etc, where people are discussing the reaction of 'the internet at large', I always picture in my mind whether we would spend any time trying to point out the wrongness of the guilty parties if we could actually see them at their keyboards.

Like if someone is 7 years old and posting nonsensical shit about a game or a game critic, would we really care? If we could see that it's a 70 year old man in diapers s

Spoiler

h

itting in a vat of beefaroni, would we care? If it was a bunch of 9th graders gathered around a PC in the school library trying to one-up each other on who can get the biggest negative reaction by saying ridiculous things that they know will cause everyone to be up in arms, would we still get up in arms?

Obviously, things like death threats and DDoS attacks are far past the line, and those should definitely be investigated by law enforcement. But for other cases, I often wonder if we are trying to apply rules of logic and discipline to either individuals who literally don't have the mental capacity to understand those rules, or to groups whose sole existence is to break them and wreak havoc.

 

[convo]

It's really funny, but really misleading.

I think if it's done in earnest, then it's not really that clever. For a jab at NMS as a downgrade it lacks nuance. Being misleading and being funny are things that don't intersect for me personally, Fox News sure doesn't make me laugh.

 

[Village]

I just read and heard the dramatic reading

Oh dear lord. This sounds like a cult

 

[140.85]

He finally got a proper mic for when he's standing at his podium. Took long enough.

 

[convo]

I just read and heard the dramatic reading

Oh dear lord. This sounds like a cult

That guy could have just said that exploring is fun and stuff, or posted a link to Danny O'Dwyer's video about NMS. No need to be condescending about it.

 

[MMarston]

 

[Fractology]

As much as it's funny to dig in on subjects like this, there's something inherently shitty about mocking someones (or a group of peoples) own admiration for something. Who cares if what they like seemingly dumb or garbage? What matters is that they enjoy it. End of story. I think it's much worse when the weight is shifted towards the attitude of "I think this thing sucks, and I'm going to make sure that everyone knows that it sucks. The hell with anyone telling me otherwise, they're just babies."

It goes both ways. And I think one way is more gross than the other.

 

[RurouniZel]

As much as it's funny to dig in on subjects like this, there's something inherently shitty about mocking someones (or a group of peoples) own admiration for something. Who cares if what they like seemingly dumb or garbage? What matters is that they enjoy it. End of story. I think it's much worse when the weight is shifted towards the attitude of "I think this thing sucks, and I'm going to make sure that everyone knows that it sucks. The hell with anyone telling me otherwise, they're just babies."

It goes both ways. And I think one way is more gross than the other.

A line is crossed when people DDoS others because they don't like their opinion.

 

[family_guy]

I think this puts No Man's Sky into proper perspective:

https://twitter.com/Britbongreturns/status/765190830894317568

Laughed out loud in a quiet office environment.

 

[UncleSporky]

As much as it's funny to dig in on subjects like this, there's something inherently shitty about mocking someones (or a group of peoples) own admiration for something. Who cares if what they like seemingly dumb or garbage? What matters is that they enjoy it. End of story. I think it's much worse when the weight is shifted towards the attitude of "I think this thing sucks, and I'm going to make sure that everyone knows that it sucks. The hell with anyone telling me otherwise, they're just babies."

It goes both ways. And I think one way is more gross than the other.

I think you're reading quite normal opinion sharing with an extrapolated judgement on people who don't share that opinion.

Like if I said, "overall this game is pretty boring, walking around and gathering resources is kind of mind-numbing and I don't find the planets all that pretty," that isn't meant to imply that I think everyone who likes the game is a moron because clearly they enjoy boring things.

Even if I said "I just don't understand what other people see in this game," that's no mockery either.

People don't have to constantly reinforce their statements with "in my opinion, of course," and they don't have to repeatedly end every post with "but hey, everyone likes different things, no hard feelings intended." It's very nice and polite when people say these things, but it's not mean or impolite not to say them.

 

[Fractology]

A line is crossed when people DDoS others because they don't like their opinion.

I won't ever defend that BS, but I will say my comment stands. The entire "No MP in NMS" thread read like a euphoric celebration of "I told you so!"s and self congratulations over how the game didn't live up to expectations. There was really dumb name calling and flaming about Sean Murray this and that. That mentality is still rampant, despite many people sharing interesting stories and their own positive impressions of the game. It's toxic.

 

[Fractology]

I think you're reading quite normal opinion sharing with an extrapolated judgement on people who don't share that opinion.

Like if I said, "overall this game is pretty boring, walking around and gathering resources is kind of mind-numbing and I don't find the planets all that pretty," that isn't meant to imply that I think everyone who likes the game is a moron because clearly they enjoy boring things.

Even if I said "I just don't understand what other people see in this game," that's no mockery either.

People don't have to constantly reinforce their statements with "in my opinion, of course," and they don't have to repeatedly end every post with "but hey, everyone likes different things, no hard feelings intended." It's very nice and polite when people say these things, but it's not mean or impolite not to say them.

Totally agree with everything you've said, however I feel like the entirety of this Jim Sterling video is exactly the bolded text and why I made my post in the first place. Between that and his mocking reading of a fans post. Sure it's funny, but it's also mean spirited. I also felt that most of the cry baby clips he mentioned (i.e. "only 30 hours wahhh" "only 6gb wahhhh") where actually coming from the group of people who were chomping at the bit to talk about how bad the game is going to be, and not the actual fans.

 

[etta]

Hey I said this a couple pages ago...



I guess I have some new words to add to the list.

What is up with this incredible hyperbole?







Look, if someone says something like...I dunno, "the game is basically a walking simulator," why would you associate the strongest possible language with that sort of criticism? You're projecting. You're equating "walking simulator" with "fucking garbage" when in fact "fucking garbage" was not said.

When the mildest of criticism is equated with the worst possible thing that can be said about a product, you demonstrate that you're over-attached to that particular entertainment product, as well as thin-skinned, or a poor reader at the very least.

Underrated post.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Totally agree with everything you've said, however I feel like the entirety of this Jim Sterling video is exactly the bolded text and why I made my post in the first place. Between that and his mocking reading of a fans post. Sure it's funny, but it's also mean spirited. I also felt that most of the cry baby clips he mentioned (i.e. "only 30 hours wahhh" "only 6gb wahhhh") where actually coming from the group of people who were chomping at the bit to talk about how bad the game is going to be, and not the actual fans.

What? Jim straight up says that people that like the game should be doing exactly that.

And he's criticizing both extremes of the argument, not just the rabid defenders.

 

[KingSnake]

As much as it's funny to dig in on subjects like this, there's something inherently shitty about mocking someones (or a group of peoples) own admiration for something.

Not the admiration is mocked, but their behaviour which crosses the boundary of their own personal interest.

 

[Menitta]

I unironically want to buy a Boglin now.

How many Pogs do I have...

 

[convo]

I think this puts No Man's Sky into proper perspective:

https://twitter.com/Britbongreturns/status/765190830894317568

This is the clip Jim posted.
Yeah i can't be convinced that something misleading can be funny. Seeing all the retweets and stuff sure doesn't make it actually relevant as an actual argument. Not that the internet is good at arguing.

 

[RPGam3r]

I think this puts No Man's Sky into proper perspective:

https://twitter.com/Britbongreturns/status/765190830894317568

Killing it! So f'n good. I rarely show my wife gaming related crap, but this one was a home run for the whole family!

 

[gossi]

As much as it's funny to dig in on subjects like this, there's something inherently shitty about mocking someones (or a group of peoples) own admiration for something. Who cares if what they like seemingly dumb or garbage? What matters is that they enjoy it. End of story.

I'm not sure if you watched the video, but it actually says this in the video. He isn't mocking people who like the game. He's taking on the people did DDoS'ing and death threats.

I go a death threat over this game (not via NeoGAF). I posted packet captures proving there's no network traffic for multiplayer co-op/PVP, and yeah.. within a few hours, death threat from somebody with a NMS avatar. I'm a fan of the game so it was quite... funny? Scary? Who knows.

 

[UncleSporky]

Totally agree with everything you've said, however I feel like the entirety of this Jim Sterling video is exactly the bolded text and why I made my post in the first place. Between that and his mocking reading of a fans post. Sure it's funny, but it's also mean spirited. I also felt that most of the cry baby clips he mentioned (i.e. "only 30 hours wahhh" "only 6gb wahhhh") where actually coming from the group of people who were chomping at the bit to talk about how bad the game is going to be, and not the actual fans.

What I took from the crybaby clips was that the responses to those bits of news were met with a similar response to the one Jason Schreier got.

"That can't be right, the game's not only 30 hours, Sean said 50 minimum, the guy is obviously lying and doesn't really have the game" etc. etc.

 

[RurouniZel]

I unironically want to buy a Boglin now.

How many Pogs do I have...

Are you trying to get Chip sent to Prison again?!

 

[MattKeil]

I think this puts No Man's Sky into proper perspective:

https://twitter.com/Britbongreturns/status/765190830894317568

Whatever my disappointments with the game may be, the fact that my Swagasaurus has brought joy makes up for it all.

 

[R0ckman]

I cracked up at the example part, Jim was legit bamboozled at why that dude was wasting time arguing with him instead of playing the game. You could feel it in his voice!