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[Mendrox]

Jesus, I cannot understand this reasoning. Why does it matter if it is an indie game or not, if 10 or 100 people worked on it?

There is just not enough content for that Money made by that small team. So you Support them with 60$ and expect more content for free but also no paid future Dlc. The cash flows now and they start to backpedal on promises.

So many defenders for that Simulator..some people got to shit money it seems or dont value it as much. It is just not worth 60$ now and now they even announced maybe paid Dlc lol

 

[RulkezX]

Only if you didn't comprehend what procedurally generated animals would entail.

Why would you expect a layman to know the technical details ? People forget that the masses aren't sitting in Neogaf or r/gaming writing 100 pages threads on procedural generation or what might lay at the centre of the universe. They watch trailers like
The one that gif comes from and make purchasing decisions based on that.


That gif is some colonial marines level bait and switch ( and is hilarious to boot).

OT- Sean only says they may have to charge eventually, and that's fair enough, I assume he still has staff to pay and they'll need income eventually. I'm sure fans will be fine as long as the scale of the content justifies the price.

 

[Teknoman]

free updates and then a big paid expansion pack sometime afterwards would be cool.

 

[BigDug13]

Jesus, I cannot understand this reasoning. Why does it matter if it is an indie game or not, if 10 or 100 people worked on it?

It didn't matter until the game released and ended up with $20 indie game worth of content. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and my $60 until I realized, no, it's actually what I had feared 10 people could develop in a game for $60.

You want to know why does it matter if it's 10 or 100 people? Well this game and its lack of content proves my point. I was a believer. The game is a nice canvas of possibilities in the future with updates of how fast 10 people can provide them. Not $60 worth IMO. Not yet.

 

[Vindicator]

No problem with paying for expansions, the game deserves it imo.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

It didn't matter until the game released and ended up with $20 indie game worth of content.

This is just some straight up bullshit im sorry.

I have already put in at least 30 hours myself and yet i have bought 'AAA non-indie' games before and got less than a third of that amount of content and time played out of them.

You may not like the game and thats perfectly ok but to start spouting rubbish like this is straight up dishonest.

 

[KingSnake]

7 days ago Sean said there won't be any DLC. None, never. He said that. Nobody forced him to say that. Coincidentally he said that at the launch of the game. After one week of sales he comes back saying that he was naive and they can't support the grand for ever for free. Yeah, nothing strange about this. Nothing at all.

But in the end if people buy that DLC, the consumer has spoken.

 

[GRaider81]

Free updates and cosmetic DLC and paid substantial expansions im totally fine with.

I know its technically DLC but i differentiate between "DLC" and expansions ala W3

 

[ChackanKun]

Wondering if this new patch they are testing atm is going to have more content or just bug fixes?

The game is great in it's current form (bug problems and lack of MP aside), but I'm interested in their vision for the future.

What will they add, what will they change. Are they really listening to critics?

 

[Saint of Killers]

Good job on thread title change. Ignores "newspaper"'s (Daily Star is a fucking rag, second only to The Sun) clickbait-alike headline and gets across the gist of the message.

 

[OuterLimits]

I guess I was perhaps a bit naive to believe Sean Murray about all future content definitely being free after his many exaggerations about the game before release.

I have found enjoyment in the game though, but his constant mixed messages have been unfortunate.

 

[Tecnniqe]

This is just some straight up bullshit im sorry.

I have already put in at least 30 hours myself and yet i have bought 'AAA non-indie' games before and got less than a third of that amount of content and time played out of them.

You may not like the game and thats perfectly ok but to start spouting rubbish like this is straight up dishonest.

Subject of value and content is very subjective so throwing a argument for or against it out the window as bullshit is not the right approach to it.

You can see the game as "tons of planets with lots of crafting" or as "pallet swaps with repeat mechanics".

Both of which are legit concerns / benefits of the game.

Personally I don't believe this product fits the $60 price tag right now, $30-40, sure - I can see that.

 

[SlickShoes]

7 days ago Sean said there won't be any DLC. None, never. He said that. Nobody forced him to say that. Coincidentally he said that at the launch of the game. After one week of sales he comes back saying that he was naive and they can't support the grand for ever for free. Yeah, nothing strange about this. Nothing at all.

But in the end if people buy that DLC, the consumer has spoken.

People always buy the DLC. I've always moved on from a game by the time DLC comes but look how many games pump out season passes, people lap this shit up in bucketloads.

Plenty on GAF don't like these practices but we are a small subsection of the greater games market and the average consumer eats up DLC and microtransactions like nobodies business.

 

[KingSnake]

Good job on thread title change.

Not really. Ignores the "no DLC" statement from a week ago.

 

[krang]

Looking forward to the "Finished Edition" with all DLC on Xbox

Spoiler

Scorpio

.

 

[Widge]

7 days ago Sean said there won't be any DLC. None, never. He said that. Nobody forced him to say that. Coincidentally he said that at the launch of the game. After one week of sales he comes back saying that he was naive and they can't support the [game] for ever for free.

Although a week ago he didn't have a huge bunch of people take to the internet to say "where is something else to do in the game?"

I'm expecting that there were light updates planned, cosmetic. Now I'm guessing they are going off to try and do something entirely more meaty.

I'm not overly fussed either way, whatever the path to get to a decent end result. I've got no urge to be an early adopter and I'd love to see this develop into something truly awesome.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

This is just some straight up bullshit im sorry.

I have already put in at least 30 hours myself and yet i have bought 'AAA non-indie' games before and got less than a third of that amount of content and time played out of them.

You may not like the game and thats perfectly ok but to start spouting rubbish like this is straight up dishonest.

Come on... The entire game's mechanics could be seen in the first system, without the 'scale' that comes from generating billions more like it. The content he's referring to is actual CONTENT, like gameplay, or weapons, or items, or skills, or NPC's, or vehicles.

It's so bare bones. That doesn't make it a bad game, but its seriously lacking in content right now. I think that will be shown when the first few patches add content.

 

[davepoobond]

7 days ago Sean said there won't be any DLC. None, never. He said that. Nobody forced him to say that. Coincidentally he said that at the launch of the game. After one week of sales he comes back saying that he was naive and they can't support the grand for ever for free. Yeah, nothing strange about this. Nothing at all.

But in the end if people buy that DLC, the consumer has spoken.

The only company I would ever have confidence in supporting a game "forever" is Blizzard, so I think naivety goes both ways here (in general, not you specifically)

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

So they said everything would be free, but then saw it was really succesful and thought what a dumb idea 'free' was

That and it's a huge fucking game.

The only error Murray pulled here is trying to play the "We're Your Friends" card that Valve and CDP play so well.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Subject of value and content is very subjective so throwing a argument for or against it out the window as bullshit is not the right approach to it.

You can see the game as "tons of planets with lots of crafting" or as "pallet swaps with repeat mechanics".

Both of which are legit concerns / benefits of the game.

Personally I don't believe this product fits the $60 price tag right now, $30-40, sure - I can see that.

But now we are getting down to semantics with regards to mechanics.

I mean if you break it down any game has repeat mechanics and just a change a change in scenery. The only real thing that goes against NMS in this regard is that is isn’t a traditional narrative driven game otherwise the same arguments can be used for any game.

Of course value is subjective and I wasn’t trying to say otherwise but the previous poster was speaking in facts regarding its content which is why I called it out since it isn’t a fact and I and many others have got more time out of the game than they stated it had.

 

[veloxStrix]

7 days ago Sean said there won't be any DLC. None, never. He said that. Nobody forced him to say that. Coincidentally he said that at the launch of the game. After one week of sales he comes back saying that he was naive and they can't support the grand for ever for free. Yeah, nothing strange about this. Nothing at all.

But in the end if people buy that DLC, the consumer has spoken.

I get that people are rightfully let down by the game and willing to take everything related to it in the most negative way - but is it maybe possible that what he meant by "No DLC" is that there would be no minor, Horse-armor esque pieces of content as opposed to expansions?

I think a lot of things happened with No Man's Sky that resulted in a lot of changes and unfortunate end results, but I still refuse to believe Sean Murray is the devil. When you are the face and voice of a game, things can get messy. You have to play a lot of roles and sometimes lines get crossed.

 

[hemo memo]

Although a week ago he didn't have a huge bunch of people take to the internet to say "where is something else to do in the game?"

I'm expecting that there were light updates planned, cosmetic. Now I'm guessing they are going off to try and do something entirely more meaty.

I'm not overly fussed either way, whatever the path to get to a decent end result. I've got no urge to be an early adopter and I'd love to see this develop into something truly awesome.

So because bunch of people take to the internet to say "where is something else to do in the game" That mean your game those people paid full price for was not worth the asking price so this meaty DLC could be offered for free.

 

[Yukinari]

That and it's a huge fucking game.

The only error Murray pulled here is trying to play the "We're Your Friends" card that Valve and CDP play so well.

No company should be anyones friend and everyone should be actual responsible consumers not afraid to criticize products they enjoy.

 

[Hasney]

It didn't matter until the game released and ended up with $20 indie game worth of content. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and my $60 until I realized, no, it's actually what I had feared 10 people could develop in a game for $60.

You want to know why does it matter if it's 10 or 100 people? Well this game and its lack of content proves my point. I was a believer. The game is a nice canvas of possibilities in the future with updates of how fast 10 people can provide them. Not $60 worth IMO. Not yet.

I feel like this game has got more content than any "full price" game released this year. I mean, if we get into the price vs. content ratio, why isn't something like The Order a $10 experience?

At the end of the day, this is the game released this year that I will be pumping more hours into than anything. This is what I wanted, a modern day Elite Frontier 2 with just a little bit more to do, while being less hardcore than something like Elite Dangerous.

Of course I would have liked it cheaper, like everything in life, but in terms of cost vs. value, I'd say this is the most value I'm going to have out of a game this year with Overwatch a close second.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This game has the production values, the content, the graphics, the gameplay, and longevity of a game which comfortably sits in this price range but because the industry veterans that made it do not work for a mega publisher and are classified as independent or indie suddenly they cnnot charge more than peanuts?

I cannot see how someone could follow all the stories/ruckus and reviews and what-have-you about No Man's Sky without seeing that above is not something that is universally agreed upon. Not even close.

In fact a huge part of the divisiveness of the game centers around whether people find all the contents are satisfying versus those who thought the game was as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle.

 

[Hasney]

Why would you expect a layman to know the technical details ? People forget that the masses aren't sitting in Neogaf or r/gaming writing 100 pages threads on procedural generation or what might lay at the centre of the universe. They watch trailers like
The one that gif comes from and make purchasing decisions based on that.


That gif is some colonial marines level bait and switch ( and is hilarious to boot).

But how many people that own the game are only going to see something that bad? I haven't yet, the generation has treated me well, but I've found some awesome beasts.

 

[KingSnake]

I'm expecting that there were light updates planned, cosmetic. Now I'm guessing they are going off to try and do something entirely more meaty.

Yes, they planned it in a week in which they borked the PC launch and they were too busy to answer to the questions about MP. See the quote below.

but is it maybe possible that what he meant by "No DLC" is that there would be no minor, Horse-armor esque pieces of content as opposed to expansions?

"We do want to add a ton of features, like we’ve just discussed: Freighters, bases, these type of things. But we want to do it for free. You’ve paid for the game, so you should get this stuff without paying even more money. So no, there will be no paid DLC, just patches."

http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331811079576/no-mans-sky-ps4-launch-day-interview

One week ago. Coincidentally right in time for release.

 

[patapuf]

Smaller Indie Devs on steam, that also run ambitious survival games, manage to do free updates for years.

Let's see how long No Mans Sky holds out with all the Sony Marketing money and hundred thousands of sales at 60$.

Given how quickly things seem to change regarding this game i expect an expansion within a year.

 

[Moreche]

I would love Sean to come out and make a blog on his site detailing his plans for the game.
Tell us where he sees the game going and what he wants it to be. No more bullshit.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

So much for the ``$60 price tag because it includes future DLC'' theory.

When will the lies and deception end?

Y'all act like "if we can't afford it" is him saying there will be paid DLC in 3 months or something

 

[patapuf]

I get that people are rightfully let down by the game and willing to take everything related to it in the most negative way - but is it maybe possible that what he meant by "No DLC" is that there would be no minor, Horse-armor esque pieces of content as opposed to expansions?

I think a lot of things happened with No Man's Sky that resulted in a lot of changes and unfortunate end results, but I still refuse to believe Sean Murray is the devil. When you are the face and voice of a game, things can get messy. You have to play a lot of roles and sometimes lines get crossed.

I like giving the benefit of the doubt but when you say "no paid DLC" the week before release and change you mind immediately after, in addition to other promises that were obviously never going to happen (some multi features) it gets really really hard.

 

[KORNdoggy]

so it's going to be free then unless they make some expansion that's so vast it warrants more money being spent? sounds about right.

 

[veloxStrix]

Yes, they planned it in a week in which they borked the PC launch and they were too busy to answer to the questions about MP. See the quote below.




"We do want to add a ton of features, like we’ve just discussed: Freighters, bases, these type of things. But we want to do it for free. You’ve paid for the game, so you should get this stuff without paying even more money. So no, there will be no paid DLC, just patches."

http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331811079576/no-mans-sky-ps4-launch-day-interview

One week ago. Coincidentally right in time for release.

And it is possible that those types of things will be free. Other things like a plot, enjoyable gameplay, and multiplayer might not be.

Nice of you that you ignore the very definitive statement. But whatever.

Which part did I ignore? Again, did CD Project Red not say a very similar thing - making a distinguished line between DLC and Expansion? Could this not be the end result of the success of that particular take? Refute me, please.

 

[KingSnake]

And it is possible that those types of things will be free. Other things like a plot, enjoyable gameplay, and multiplayer might not be.

Nice of you that you ignore the very definitive statement. But whatever.

 

[hemo memo]

I feel like this game has got more content than any "full price" game released this year. I mean, if we get into the price vs. content ratio, why isn't something like The Order a $10 experience?

At the end of the day, this is the game released this year that I will be pumping more hours into than anything. This is what I wanted, a modern day Elite Frontier 2 with just a little bit more to do, while being less hardcore than something like Elite Dangerous.

Of course I would have liked it cheaper, like everything in life, but in terms of cost vs. value, I'd say this is the most value I'm going to have out of a game this year with Overwatch a close second.

So by your definition Procedurally generated = More content? The current state of the game is basically original Destiny if it has procedurally generated planets.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I would fucking hope multiplayer would be free, since it's supposedly somewhere in the game and was promised to exist prior to release.

 

[Tecnniqe]

But now we are getting down to semantics with regards to mechanics.

I mean if you break it down any game has repeat mechanics and just a change a change in scenery. The only real thing that goes against NMS in this regard is that is isn’t a traditional narrative driven game otherwise the same arguments can be used for any game.

Of course value is subjective and I wasn’t trying to say otherwise but the previous poster was speaking in facts regarding its content which is why I called it out since it isn’t a fact and I and many others have got more time out of the game than they stated it had.

New weapons or items can change up mechanics and machanics may also be a part of the games content. Both of which are lacking in NMS. It's also about how you use the content that makes it valuable, which again is subjective.

I don't think you can compare hand crafted things with NMS, as it's mostly texture swaps and pallet change with the addition of floating trees and building as a result of it being procedurally generated.

 

[KORNdoggy]

I would fucking hope multiplayer would be free, since it's supposedly somewhere in the game and was promised to exist prior to release.

hopefully the "multiplayer" they add is the one they promised...ie...one that has such small odds of ever happening with no interaction that 99% of players are never likely to see it and even if they do they can't really do much together anyway. lol

with the addition of floating trees and building as a result of it being procedurally generated.

tbh even the hand crafted games suffer from this. lol

 

[KingSnake]

Which part did I ignore? Again, did CD Project Red not say a very similar thing - making a distinguished line between DLC and Expansion? Could this not be the end result of the success of that particular take? Refute me, please.

"there will be no paid DLC, just patches"

You can name it however you want, name it expansion, it doesn't change the meaning of the initial statement. It's just grasping at straws and still misleading.

Again, nobody stops them from doing it and the consumers most probably will happily pay for it, still doesn't make it less dubious that at the game release he practically said "$60 will get you everything now and in the future" to change the tune once the first week of sales is done.

 

[Hasney]

So by your definition Procedurally generated = More content? The current state of the game is basically original Destiny if it has procedurally generated planets.

No, I enjoy what they've put in it. The core locations of monoliths, abandoned buildings, finding that rare resource I've been needing for the upgrade, checking out some awesome animals and then rummaging through their shit for more resources, hitting up a drop pod, finding a crashed ship to loot or even take as my own... That sense of exploration is a fun unwinding game for me.

To be honest, I probably would have liked the patrol areas of Destiny a lot more if they were procedural and different each time, along with new things to discover instead of the same old shit every time that got tiring.

Value is subjective, but since I keep reading definitive statements about how it's not worth $60, I will say it is.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

This is just some straight up bullshit im sorry.

I have already put in at least 30 hours myself and yet i have bought 'AAA non-indie' games before and got less than a third of that amount of content and time played out of them.

You may not like the game and thats perfectly ok but to start spouting rubbish like this is straight up dishonest.

Playing 30 hours does not mean the same as 30 hours of content when the gameplay loop is distilled into a dozen things you can do.

It's like the one guy who told me Ground Zeroes had 40 hours of content when really it was a sad attempt to justify purchasing what was essentially a demo.

 

[kraspkibble]

fix the game first before talking about free/paid DLC's. the game runs so bad on PC and there is no chance i'll buy any the DLC if it doesn't get fixed.

 

[veloxStrix]

fix the game first before talking about free/paid DLC's. the game runs so bad on PC and there is no chance i'll buy any the DLC if it doesn't get fixed.

Does it? I actually haven't ran into any performance issues, despite disliking almost everything about the game besides the art style and flying down onto a planet for the first time. I'm also usually a bit luckier than most people when it comes to performance though for whatever reason.

Most of them are fixed via deleting the shadercache and disabling it driver side for NVidia cards and a new Game Ready driver came out that fixes things along with an experimental patch on the game. One of those things usually fixes most peoples issues.

The AMD side and some other setups are still having issues though, hopefully the final patch can address those people/AMD get a driver out.

Ah. What were the issues then? Game crashes and loading screen locks since it was a cache issue? Or frame rate? Low frame rate is obnoxious, but frequent crashes are actually unacceptable for me from a modern game - even a new one.

 

[Hasney]

Does it? I actually haven't ran into any performance issues, despite disliking almost everything about the game besides the art style and flying down onto a planet for the first time. I'm also usually a bit luckier than most people when it comes to performance though for whatever reason.

Most of them are fixed via deleting the shadercache and disabling it driver side for NVidia cards and a new Game Ready driver came out that fixes things along with an experimental patch on the game. One of those things usually fixes most peoples issues.

The AMD side and some other setups are still having issues though, hopefully the final patch can address those people/AMD get a driver out.

 

[barit]

He is just elaborating on why it was probably stupid to say 'oh yeah the game will get major free updates till the end of time'. I mean all im gathering from his current statement is there are def gonna be a bunch of free updates for the foreseeable future, but if like 2 years from now they run into financial trouble it wouldnt make sense to not charge for a mjor expansion that they couldnt afford otherwise. Once again gamers just going batshit on every word said.

Psst. Don't argue with common sense in a NMS thread. Let the hate flow through you. Can't you see? It's all lies. Sean is evil and only wants our money. The whole game is mess and no paid DLC can save it. Yes yes I've seen the future just like 90% of the other posters in here...

 

[Avatar1]

No company should be anyones friend and everyone should be actual responsible consumers not afraid to criticize products they enjoy.

Oh, so it's our job as responsible consumers to cry, moan, and to invent outrage? Good to know.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Oh, so it's our job as responsible consumers to cry, moan, and to invent outrage? Good to know.

 

[Shinjica]

Oh, so it's our job as responsible consumers to cry, moan, and to invent outrage? Good to know.

You know can criticize a product without cry, moan or do some outrage?

I think a lot of things happened with No Man's Sky that resulted in a lot of changes and unfortunate end results, but I still refuse to believe Sean Murray is the devil. When you are the face and voice of a game, things can get messy. You have to play a lot of roles and sometimes lines get crossed.

I pretty sure no one here believe him as the devil but most likely a seller.

 

[sublimit]

"Free" updates?Really? Should we now be thankful to devs for updating their games in order to run better and improving their game's design that should have been there in the first place?

 

[TheSpoiler]

Oh, so it's our job as responsible consumers to cry, moan, and to invent outrage? Good to know.

Criticism =/= inventing outrage.

I don't know what put you on the offensive like that.