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[Adam_Vania]

funny enough many of the quotes in that damning list of horrible lies are him saying "Maybe we can do this..." and "What if you could do this..."

 

[Purkake4]

This is all it takes really.

Instead Sean used language more akin to "Our universe is," "Our game will," etc.

Again, this is probably something a basic PR manager could have worked on with him...

Developer etiquette. Simple stuff.

 

[ironcreed]

Getting an interview with Sean Murray after this is going to be like getting an interview with El Chapo.

Does anyone have Sean Penn's number?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

funny enough many of the quotes in that damning list of horrible lies are him saying "Maybe we can do this..." and "What if you could do this..."

That may be, but I think the most damning article that showed the pure cockamamie he was spreading is the Atlantic article.

I think another bad habit he showed in that article was his poopooing other game's physics and engine implementations. Looking at what I played, it makes him seem like a small little man.

 

[Alebrije]

Has anyone thought about how Sean feels here?

That's what's really getting to me. Sean is a human being with feelings like the rest of us. He deserves a ton of our respect for being so creative and setting goals so high that he misses the mark by a country mile.

I'm nearly brought to tears thinking of how people have been talking about him this past week. If you have even casually referred to him as a liar, you should know that's a really heavy accusation.

Something has to be done about the injustice towards Sean.

I expect to see some apologies here for everyone's poor behavior.

Here, I'll start:

Sean, I'm sorry I smiled when I saw someone had written "DON'T BELIEVE HIS SKIES" on a polaroid of you.

I feel shame for rename my system as "All were lies" and their planets "The Molyoux Paradox" , "Worse than Raiders" and "Don't ask me no questions"

 

[Pestilence11]

That may be, but I think the most damning article that showed the pure cockamamie he was spreading is the Atlantic article.

I think another bad habit he showed in that article was his poopooing other game's physics and engine implementations. Looking at what I played, it makes him seem like a small little man.

That article isn't even that old either. People keep saying we're talking about shit he said 2-3 years ago.

 

[ghibli99]

Iirc, they trashed XBLA saying they'd never release there, released on PS3, later released an XBLA version with more features, didn't patch those into the PS3 version and instead sold a new PS3 version with the new features and stopped supporting the old one.

Then for JD2, they did the exact same thing but started on 360 trashing the PS3 and went the other way around.

Wow, for reals? Why would a developer that did this be held in such high regard afterwards?

 

[kiguel182]

I was just over in off-topic reading how Ryan Lochte lied about being robbed at the Rio Olympics. Some think he should face jail time.

Long story short, do you think we can get Sean Murray arrested?

Are there any lawyers here?

Please tell me you are joking...

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Wow, for reals? Why would a developer that did this be held in such high regard afterwards?

He's so humble and shy! He appeals to my inner socially-awkward nerd! Look at him, he's barefoot! How could you not love him!

 

[Kieli]

He's so humble and shy! He appeals to my inner socially-awkward nerd! Look at him, he's barefoot! How could you not love him!

Sean really needed Sony PR to help coach him on what to say and how to say it.

He basically kept piling the mystique onto the game whereas other indie devs would have been forthcoming on what's in and not in the game.

 

[Baalzebup]

Please tell me you are joking...

Read the rest of his comments on this thread to find out.

 

[maxcriden]

Has Sean really still not commented yet?

 

[Alebrije]

Has Sean really still not commented yet?

He is busy fixing all the bugs the game has...

 

[orava]

Sean really needed Sony PR to help coach him on what to say and how to say it.

He basically kept piling the mystique onto the game whereas other indie devs would have been forthcoming on what's in and not in the game.

Sony probably encouraged it and then after the launch and all the preorders, laughed all the way to the bank. It was them who got HG all the publicity and got Sean in high profile events as guest.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Has Sean really still not commented yet?

He is still saying how crazy everything is and how many people are playing. And focusing on fixing the PC version I guess.

 

[flkraven]

if thecouncil got barefoot and made a game, what would it be?

 

[Kieli]

Sony probably encouraged it and then after the launch and all the preorders, laughed all the way to the bank. It was them who got HG all the publicity and got Sean in high profile events as guest.

sony giving them huge spotlight pushed the team into a weight division they werent ready to play in

however, sean has basically been adding fuel to the fire.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Has Sean really still not commented yet?

 

[Krappadizzle]

if thecouncil got barefoot and made a game, what would it be?

Whatever it'd be it'd be like a mix of Black & White and Spore.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Lol yeah this one was basically spot on!

 

[CaptNink]

LOL - awesome!

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Lol yeah this one was basically spot on!

Being barefoot just makes it.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Same here.

All the things missing can easily be updated via a patch.

Hahaha some of them will never be in the scope of the project and a lot of them would basically require a completely new game or expensive dlc to implement. Personally I expect them to add things like the freighters and basebuilding.......and for said features to be utterly devoid of fun or meaning because the base game already has zero gameplay hook to it. I know people get mad about this stuff but no mans sky is a tech demo and a few patches won't turn it into a compelling experience for the majority of people

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Being barefoot just makes it.

Oh fuck i didnt even notice that before! Bah-hahahahaha! Even better!

 

[Clear]

What's there to be mindful of? I don't have to remember any story I told, any special PR speak, nothing. I just say what is and avoid spoilers that's it. Literally nothing fucking to it.

Your attitude is very curious for a dev, mind if I ask what position your role is and what experience do you have in a front-facing position?

As I've said from the start, personally I just find the whole thing distasteful and discouraging. I'm not such a cynical sell-out that I'd consider getting back into the freemium skinner-box crapfest just for the money, but to be blunt the thought of working on something I had an emotional stake in... just seems like something that would be bad for my health!

I don't need that sort of stress and bullshit, and I wouldn't blame any upcoming dev from thinking the exact same way and making career decisions accordingly.

 

[thecouncil]

if thecouncil got barefoot and made a game, what would it be?

only the greatest game of all time, as described by me through years of shoeless interviews.

then after you finally bought it and loaded it, you'd be faced with just a title screen and no more.

when questioned, id write on twitter:

"i dont know how to make games. sorry."

 

[mentallyinept]

*snip*

You wrote a whole bunch of stuff concentrating on the word "openly" and forgot the word "honestly".

He was not honest. He doubled-down on non-existent features at every opportunity.

 

[Adam_Vania]

yes if only he had not worked so hard on the game and instead spent more time with PR the game would have turned out....

....wait, it probably would have turned out worse

 

[Moreche]

I've never been so disappointed in a game than I've been with NMS.
I don't know why but I really do think Sean and his team will turn this around.
Maybe not the quality of that E3 2014 video but I really do think he'll tweak it and add enough to make it fantastic.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I was just over in off-topic reading how Ryan Lochte lied about being robbed at the Rio Olympics. Some think he should face jail time.

Long story short, do you think we can get Sean Murray arrested?

Are there any lawyers here?

this is sad...

You care way too much about gaming man.

 

[NullPointer]

This is all it takes really.

Instead Sean used language more akin to "Our universe is," "Our game will," etc.

Again, this is probably something a basic PR manager could have worked on with him...

The folks at Digital Extremes do exactly this in the Warframe's weekly Dev Streams. The people doing the work show off systems in progress, concepts for stuff to come, demos of near final features, conversations about why some of the systems were designed the way they are and about possible directions the game could go. They're also pretty damn open about their failed systems and why, including stuff they may have previously demo'd as near final.

And holy shit do they know how to do patch notes. It's a damn novel with each update, browsable in-game at startup.

That's how you establish and keep a dialogue with a community, both in the lead up to new releases and afterwards.

 

[BravesCountry]

Wow this is almost too good

 

[Specialmias]

I was just over in off-topic reading how Ryan Lochte lied about being robbed at the Rio Olympics. Some think he should face jail time.

Long story short, do you think we can get Sean Murray arrested?

Are there any lawyers here?

We can hire some strippers to arrest him in police costumes. There's a few in Guildford that seem affordable if we want to setup a paypal collection.

Something along the lines of: "We're looking for Sean Murray, he needs to be taught a lesson about lying to his fans." Then cue dance music, lights, twitch.tv streaming of the entire event. Sean is in handcuffs tied to a chair getting taught his lesson. We give him a make it rain gun filled with multiples of 60. Maybe have the strippers call him a bad boy and read off some of the angry comments he has gotten for lying.

 

[flkraven]

only the greatest game of all time, as described by me through years of shoeless interviews.

then after you finally bought it and loaded it, you'd be faced with just a title screen and no more.

when questioned, id write on twitter:

"i dont know how to make games. sorry."

Close. Follow Sean's lead. Just don't say anything on twitter after release.

 

[Phreaker]

Sean also said the game wouldn't have NPCs, but it does. Things change over years of development. The only real issue I have is all the talk about people knowing if they've run into another player and that being totally absent from the game.

 

[jax]

All of these complaints and the game still rules. Amazing.

 

[flkraven]

this is sad...

You care way too much about gaming man.

incredible.

 

[spacemonkeynation]

The folks at Digital Extremes do exactly this in the Warframe's weekly Dev Streams. The people doing the work show off systems in progress, concepts for stuff to come, demos of near final features, conversations about why some of the systems were designed the way they are and about possible directions the game could go. They're also pretty damn open about their failed systems and why, including stuff they may have previously demo'd as near final.

And holy shit do they know how to do patch notes. It's a damn novel with each update, browsable in-game at startup.

That's how you establish and keep a dialogue with a community, both in the lead up to new releases and afterwards.

As a free-to-play title I don't feel that this comparison is fair. They can do that because they are actively developing the game WHILE people play it.

This whole NMS thing is so overblown. The game is a fucking triumphant accomplishment. It's not perfect, but I really wish people would stop being so damned entitled.

 

[nynt9]

Sean also said the game wouldn't have NPCs, but it does. Things change over years of development. The only real issue I have is all the talk about people knowing if they've run into another player and that being totally absent from the game.

Welcome to the thread. Congratulations for ignoring all of it. We all know games change during development. We're not stupid, no need to patronize us. The point is that they weren't up front about it and bragged about features they didn't have and didn't come clean.

Let me help you:

It seems to me that a lot of posters defending the game here don't understand the simple nature of the criticisms. Most people understand games change during development. However, when a developer keeps promising features through years - and some of these promises are very explicit and reiterated several times - people expect those features to be real. This isn't something most people just decided to retroactively care about. Me and many others were expecting these features for years because we were aware of what the developer has promised. Now, it's ok if the developer fails to implement these. It's a shame, but such is life. However, when they trumpet on national TV or major media events that these things will happen, they also need to announce the cancellation of these things just as loudly. Otherwise it creates a misleading narrative.

Digital store fronts still have images from this version of the game, and they haven't made a public statement about the cut features a week into its release despite fan proddings. Sean has tweeted less than a dozen or so times since the game's release, whereas before that he tweeted that amount daily. They know what's going on. They've been contacted by journalists too, but they haven't responded. They're avoiding questions.

Also, some people are coming in here and saying the backlash to Sean is too strong, then when asked to clarify they say they mean on Reddit and Twitter. While that is a shame, the level of discourse here is different. By responding to posts here with an impression gained on Reddit, it muddies the discourse here. Please don't act like people here are having the same reaction as people elsewhere. The discourse here has been mostly level and claims about outrage just derail the thread.

Sure, people can still enjoy the game. Maybe you weren't aware of the promised features or you don't care. But that's beside the point, and it is no grounds to defend the actions of Sean Murray et al. - the game can be good but the developers still could have been misleading. They are two separate things, and you shouldn't confuse your expectations from the game with other peoples' expectations and what was explicitly promised by the marketing.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Wow, for reals? Why would a developer that did this be held in such high regard afterwards?

JD 1/2 might not be household names known well enough to associate Hello Games.

I actually didn't realize it was the same dev, at first. Joe Danger was never on my radar.

Now you have a game being made by someone like Housemarque and I'm all like "DAMSON.JPG" because you know their pedigree. I just don't think many people knew who they were before NMS.

 

[Phreaker]

Welcome to the thread. Congratulations for ignoring all of it. We all know games change during development. We're not stupid, no need to patronize us. The point is that they weren't up front about it and bragged about features they didn't have and didn't come clean.

Haha, okay, let me go back and read 45 pages... I was responding to the OP/Reddit post in general, not patronizing you. Some of those "source" links in the Reddit post are from years ago. I was just wondering why they don't have "There would be no NPCs" on the list, since that must have been a lie too.

 

[NullPointer]

As a free-to-play title I don't feel that this comparison is fair. They can do that because they are actively developing the game WHILE people play it.

Its a good example that devs can look to for inspiration or to emulate, though every dev studio is different.

I bring it up specifically because they've had to walk back cool features that they demo'd in previous dev streams (like the revamped parkour system among many). And they didn't do it with silence, or misdirection, or being vague or empty PR speak. They just flat out said they tried but it didn't work because of A, B, or C, and that they had to go back to other designs. Eventually they settle on something better, demo it in a subsequent Dev Stream and everybody wins.

 

[Spat_triate]

I'm putting my tin foil hat on for this one.

2014 - No Man's Sky is debuted, and soon after (I think?) Sony gets involved and sort of takes them under it's wing.

So...in April IGN did a series of play throughs on this game. It appears to be the game everyone expected to be playing right now.

Soon after that E3 approaches and we hear rumors that the PS4 Neo which was supposed to be shown was pulled from the show.

Shortly after they delay the game.

Fast forward to launch day, everyone plays, notices things are different, missing entirely, etc.

Now, lets look at a quote from Sean Murray about PS4 Neo:



Sony involvement in the game early on, PS4 Neo reveal scrapped, NMS delayed, MY THEORY - Delayed to REMOVE features, etc. that we saw before. Releases with stuff missing, September 7th will see PS4 Neo revealed.

I am predicting that on the 7th we will see a version of NMS running on PS4 Neo available through a patch that basically turns it into the game we were shown before all to entice people to buy the Neo. Sony's involvement, Hello Games uncharacteristic silence on the matter, etc. lead me to believe this. Even if it doesnt get announced on the 7th of September, I bet within 6 months we hear something about "how much better NMS becomes when playing on Neo.

Or he you know...lied

 

[Clear]

You wrote a whole bunch of stuff concentrating on the word "openly" and forgot the word "honestly".

He was not honest. He doubled-down on non-existent features at every opportunity.

Just because they aren't in the final build, who's to say they weren't there at some point or that the capability exists but is just disabled at present?

I neither know nor care really, but what I can say with perfect certainty is that you are in the exact same position as me information-wise!

 

[SpecX]

lmfao, this argument is still going on about the man "lying"? I know, it's not that he lied, "it's all a matter of principle", "this type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded", just go enjoy the game already.

 

[thecouncil]

Close. Follow Sean's lead. Just don't say anything on twitter after release.

"im working on the pc version."

 

[Krappadizzle]

As a free-to-play title I don't feel that this comparison is fair. They can do that because they are actively developing the game WHILE people play it.

This whole NMS thing is so overblown. The game is a fucking triumphant accomplishment. It's not perfect, but I really wish people would stop being so damned entitled.

Entitled to what? Their opinion? The game they were told this was going to be? What specifically are people acting entitled about?

 

[nynt9]

Just because they aren't in the final build, who's to say they weren't there at some point or that the capability exists but is just disabled at present?

I neither know nor care really, but what I can say with perfect certainty is that you are in the exact same position as me information-wise!

Then he should have, like you said, been open and said hat those features were removed.

 

[Purkake4]

lmfao, this argument is still going on about the man "lying"? I know, it's not that he lied, "it's all a matter of principle", "this type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded", just go enjoy the game already.

I'm guessing the speculation will continue for a while or until people actually get an official response.

 

[LostEcho]

Haha, okay, let me go back and read 45 pages... I was responding to the OP/Reddit post in general, not patronizing you. Some of those "source" links in the Reddit post are from years ago. I was just wondering why they don't have "There would be no NPCs" on the list, since that must have been a lie too.

Except for the fact that even if he said there would not be NPC at a time, over the years he also shown that there is NPC, talked about faction, different race, NPC that fight each other in space and you can join side, etc. So in this case this is in fact a good way to show that plan change during developement and if at one point in time he said there's no npc the plan changed and he shown after that there is NPC. This is the crux of the complain, that transparency was not the same when some feature were cut.