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[ClosingADoor]

Just because they aren't in the final build, who's to say they weren't there at some point or that the capability exists but is just disabled at present?

I neither know nor care really, but what I can say with perfect certainty is that you are in the exact same position as me information-wise!

Considering there is no trace of the features in the files, but there are of E3 demos, they picked rather strange things to clear out totally instead of just disable.

And they talked about all those simulation features earlier this year. You can't tell me they spent 5 years working on simulating a total universe and in the last few months went "what the hell, throw in some skyboxes and call it a day."

 

[flkraven]

lmfao, this argument is still going on about the man "lying"? I know, it's not that he lied, "it's all a matter of principle", "this type of behavior shouldn't be rewarded", just go enjoy the game already.

The argument lasting this long is far less surprising than the developer saying nothing to clarify the situation. Defenders of NMS are literally becoming a meme.

 

[Z3M0G]

Complete and total load of horseshit.

This line in particular is hilarious:

If this chump did even an ounce of research, he might understand that people consider it fraud because there are boxes that clearly state multiplayer interactivity is in. And in some cases, those have been hastily covered with some shitty sticker.

It says magnitudes about the team when the boxes were printed with different information than what's in the game.

All of this is further exacerbated by the issue that the game is still being marketed on the digital storefronts he mentions with old footage from old builds dating back to E3 2014.

Absolutely.

The crux of that matter again.

I don't understand this shift to the consumer. It's silly.

That person likely didn't know that PSN Store also said "Online (optional)" until only days before release.

 

[Gator86]

Entitled to what? Their opinion? The game they were told this was going to be? What specifically are people acting entitled about?

Entitled is one of those words that doesn't mean anything anymore, like clickbait. It's just shorthand for "thing I don't agree with."

 

[Phreaker]

Except for the fact that even if he said there would not be NPC at a time, over the years he also shown that there is NPC, talked about faction, different race, NPC that fight each other in space and you can join side, etc. So in this case this is in fact a good way to show that plan change during developement and if at one point in time he said there's no npc the plan changed and he shown after that there is NPC. This is the crux of the complain, that transparency was not the same when some feature were cut.

Fair enough, also it's not IF he said it, he said it, it's in one of the same "source" videos from Dec 2014. https://youtu.be/n0uYnwqlslU?t=1m10s

 

[belvedere]

All of these complaints and the game still rules. Amazing.

Sean/Hello Games deserve criticism and they also need to respond. That said, the game is still damn fun to play. I guess I'm not offended as everyone else, so I'm either naive or not trying hard enough to be disappointed.

These comments and concerns need to be acknowledged by the dev team, but let's not get those concerns lost in an ocean of speculative, hyperbolic insults and assumptions towards the game and its creators. I'm by no means excusing the matter, but I'll also not pretend to understand Sean's own mind or motives, the development cycle, resource constraints, pressure from Sony and an endless list of other potential factors.

Here comes the naive/optimistic part of me again, but with any luck maybe many the missed promises will make their way into the game via content updates. Should they have been there from the get go? Maybe, but who am I to say. I'm having enough fun with the game now so if some of these features make their way in a little further down the road, I'll be happy with it.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Your attitude is very curious for a dev, mind if I ask what position your role is and what experience do you have in a front-facing position?

As I've said from the start, personally I just find the whole thing distasteful and discouraging. I'm not such a cynical sell-out that I'd consider getting back into the freemium skinner-box crapfest just for the money, but to be blunt the thought of working on something I had an emotional stake in... just seems like something that would be bad for my health!

I don't need that sort of stress and bullshit, and I wouldn't blame any upcoming dev from thinking the exact same way and making career decisions accordingly.

Missed this, sorry.

Primary Operations Officer

Spoiler

Poo

But in all seriousness i run my company and am responsible for my team. We all feel the same way. There's no magic behind public relations.

Here's how I parse any question i have been asked about my game:

Is it a spoiler and am I ready to talk about it/this/mechanic/feature/etc?

There's no other rules I speak by. If we are ready to talk we will. If not, we won't. If it's a spoiler i'll "that's a good question" it and move on.

I have enough headaches keeping good with my tax stuff, being the only programmer and dumping money into the project. I try to make the PR end as easy as i can for me and i see that as a headache-free zone if i just stick to stuff like "don't lie", "only talk about it when you're ready to show it" and "don't spoil shit".

I find that aspect of gamedev to be the most fun - talking to people. It's fun to engage about something you are working on and get feedback, good or bad. Answering questions when you are ready to answer them is not frightening - it's liberating.

 

[Clear]

Considering there is no trace of the features in the files, but there are of E3 demos, they picked rather strange things to clear out totally instead of just disable.

And they talked about all those simulation features earlier this year. You can't tell me they spent 5 years working on simulating a total universe and in the last few months went "what the hell, throw in some skyboxes and call it a day."

Sounds entirely plausible to me. Sorry, 20 plus years in dev have shown me how much can change in a day's work, let alone several months.

Like I said, if I had the internet talking this much smack about me, I wouldn't be saying jack because I'd be on the next flight to Tahiti!

Seriously though. When people are calling you a liar, its pretty tough to talk your way out of it because you can't solve a credibility problem when you have no credibility with your critics. Swift reactions are great, but if you aren't careful you can end up just digging a deeper hole.

 

[BluFish]

I'm guessing the speculation will continue for a while or until people actually get an official response.

That's the craziest thing; he still hasn't addressed any of it. Most egregious being MP.

Like I said, if I had the internet talking this much smack about me, I wouldn't be saying jack because I'd be on the next flight to Tahiti!

It's a magical place.

 

[YianGaruga]

You know who has my sympathy? The 14 other developers who busted their asses while their boss made up features on the spot.

Their office must've been super awkward at times

"So you just said we had multiplayer on Colbert..."

"yes. I said it's rare though!"

"we haven't coded multiplayer of any kind"

*smiles shyly while barefoot*

 

[Pestilence11]

Their office must've been super awkward at times

"So you just said we had multiplayer on Colbert..."

"yes. I said it's rare though!"

"we haven't coded multiplayer of any kind"

*smiles shyly while barefoot*

To have been a fly on the wall after some of those proclamations.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Sounds entirely plausible to me. Sorry, 20 plus years in dev have shown me how much can change in a day's work, let alone several months.

Like I said, if I had the internet talking this much smack about me, I wouldn't be saying jack because I'd be on the next flight to Tahiti!

Seriously though. When people are calling you a liar, its pretty tough to talk your way out of it because you can't solve a credibility problem when you have no credibility with your critics. Swift reactions are great, but if you aren't careful you can end up just digging a deeper hole.

The whole backlash got traction because after launch he disappeared I think and was still sending conflicted messages. If he just got on that, I think it would have been a lot less.

Then again, if I just made a few million after 5 years of work on one game, I'd probably also do bug fixing and then be gone for some time for a break. That's why you need PR people sometime to do the job for you.

 

[OuterLimits]

Sean: "Lol who promised multiplayer?"

I'm amazed the amount of comments on this Tweet that still think multiplayer is likely part of the game. One person asked Sean why he misled people about the feature, and tons of people said it's in the game or made excuses.

 

[Clear]

I find that aspect of gamedev to be the most fun - talking to people. It's fun to engage about something you are working on and get feedback, good or bad. Answering questions when you are ready to answer them is not frightening - it's liberating.

Good for you man, I've worked similar spots in the past and I know how gratifying it feels to engage with people about projects.

That being said, the hype-train that built up around NMS would turn my blood to ice-water. I really couldn't say how I would have dealt with such a "tiger-by-the-tail" scenario. I can't imagine with corporate uncle Sony peering over my shoulder that trying to cool the hype would fly as a plan, but... yeah.

I predicted long, long, ago in a post that they'd have to deal with some level of backlash because of it, but this seems much worse than I expected.

Either way, I stand behind every word I've written on this matter, and I truly detest the adversarialism of the whole system.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

They were 15 people, but the point still stands, of course. As mentioned earlier, if they promise it, they have to deliver. If they don't, at least disclose it on time: now we are simply conned (well, not me, since I haven't bought it, but people who have, are).

The thing is, had they been honest from the beginning, the game would probably be held as a great achievement by a small yet ambitious team.
The review scores and word of mouth would be alot better.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Sounds entirely plausible to me. Sorry, 20 plus years in dev have shown me how much can change in a day's work, let alone several months.

Like I said, if I had the internet talking this much smack about me, I wouldn't be saying jack because I'd be on the next flight to Tahiti!

Seriously though. When people are calling you a liar, its pretty tough to talk your way out of it because you can't solve a credibility problem when you have no credibility with your critics. Swift reactions are great, but if you aren't careful you can end up just digging a deeper hole.

20 years in the industry should have taught you not to lie. It should have also taught you that you don't let anything snowball like this.

People are calling him a liar because he is.

He didn't answer the same question about features the same way - he answered them based on the discussion happening at that moment. He was opportunistic with how he chose to phrase and answer those questions.

That's not talking about a feature or mechanic in your game, that's bending the message to fit the narrative of the moment.

Seriously.

When he is asked a question he responds to it in an effort to manifest an answer that best fits the current talking point and frame it for the moment's discussion, not what actually IS.

Read my earlier post about the avatar customization then what he said on Colbert.

Then realize the closer he came to release he began dialing it back.

Then after release was just so SHOCKED (shocked, I tell you) that 2 players didn't mee... ahem... met each other on launch but dodged every question why they could not see each other.

And I've only been at this gamedev business 2 years and I can smell bullshit a mile away. He's silly putty for the interviewer and capitalizes on those moments to push a product

He's done it before.

Twice.

Twice!

This isn't new behaviour or unfounded accusations. Unfortunately for his team this will probably be the final nail in that coffin he's hand-crafted over 3 different games. I'm more worried about the folks who work for him than anything else.

Edit :
To your next post about the hype. I don't mean to be combative as I have no clue who you work for - but 20 years should have also taught you that as a developer - YOU set the expectation. You are 100% in complete control of everything said about your game. Complete control of the messaging. Complete control of your feature list.

You set the narrative everyone follows. If you do it truthfully the most anyone can sour you on is "that wasn't as fun as I thought" or "man that's boring as shit". Nobody will bitch at you about keeping your word, only the quality of your work.

 

[MythicReclaimer]

No refund for me. They said since the game has been played it is not possible. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

They're not going to honor a refund for simply not liking/enjoying a game but if a game is causing crashes and system hard-locks you certainly have a case.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Why are you worried about him and his team? They are probably going to sell very well and grow and expand and be very successful.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Fair enough, also it's not IF he said it, he said it, it's in one of the same "source" videos from Dec 2014. https://youtu.be/n0uYnwqlslU?t=1m10s

This video is so uncomfortable. It's like they're flirting in a horribly awkward way.

http://youtu.be/WwfVaehcdfE

 

[brau]

This video is so uncomfortable. It's like they're flirting in a horribly awkward way.

http://youtu.be/WwfVaehcdfE

The uploader has not made this video available in your country.

 

[Adam_Vania]

They're not going to honor a refund for simply not liking/enjoying a game but if a game is causing crashes and system hard-locks you certainly have a case.

maybe this will be a lesson to people in wisely spending their money. this is the real world and people take advantage of consumers all the time. if you can't bear to let go of $60 maybe you shouldn't be spending that kind of money at all.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Their office must've been super awkward at times

"So you just said we had multiplayer on Colbert..."

"yes. I said it's rare though!"

"we haven't coded multiplayer of any kind"

*smiles shyly while barefoot*

Dead.

 

[themadcowtipper]

The defense of this developer who was lying months before the game was released is what really blows my mind.
Someone needs to tell Zack Snider to start giving interviews barefoot....Again some here on GAF are treating Sean different then anyone else. What has he done to deserve your protection.

 

[KingSnake]

I noticed two good points in the last pages and I think is worth mentioning them again.

First, the fact that Sean refuses to answer any questions from the media about this paints his character in a shady light.

And secondly, instead of feeling sorry for Sean, I would rather feel sorry for the guys who have Sean as their boss and are getting their reputation tarnished by the lies of their boss.

And for all the new comers in this thread, read this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/02/artificial-universe-no-mans-sky/463308/

It's from February this year.

“The physics of every other game—it’s faked,” the chief architect Sean Murray explained. “When you’re on a planet, you’re surrounded by a skybox—a cube that someone has painted stars or clouds onto. If there is a day to night cycle, it happens because they are slowly transitioning between a series of different boxes.” The skybox is also a barrier beyond which the player can never pass. The stars are merely points of light. In No Man’s Sky however, every star is a place that you can go. The universe is infinite. The edges extend out into a lifeless abyss that you can plunge into forever.

Our day to night cycle is happening because the planet is rotating on its axis as it spins around the sun. There is real physics to that. We have people that will fly down from a space station onto a planet and when they fly back up, the station isn't there anymore; the planet has rotated.

Then go back to the game and admire the wonderful rotation of the planet and the real physics of the star systems, with planets orbiting around their reachable star. And enjoy traveling this infinite universe where you can't fly to the next system without a loading screen.

 

[shintoki]

He's not lying people. He's just allowing you to discover the truth and not spoiling it

 

[jman2050]

Sounds entirely plausible to me. Sorry, 20 plus years in dev have shown me how much can change in a day's work, let alone several months.

I call BS. There's no way that development team spent years building their entire game around an interconnected planetary simulation and then just decided to "turn it off" at the last minute before release. That just simply cannot happen, especially not with a game of this scale from a team this small.

It was never there in the first place, I'm positive of that.

 

[KingSnake]

I call BS. There's no way that development team spent years building their entire game around an interconnected planetary simulation and then just decided to "turn it off" at the last minute before release. That just simply cannot happen, especially not with a game of this scale from a team this small.

It was never there in the first place, I'm positive of that.

The had rotating planets and orbits, real stars and infinite universe in February according to Sean. They must have spent all the time since February taking out features from the game.

 

[Maximo]

He's not lying people. He's just allowing you to discover the truth and not spoiling it

 

[EDarkness]

Good for you man, I've worked similar spots in the past and I know how gratifying it feels to engage with people about projects.

That being said, the hype-train that built up around NMS would turn my blood to ice-water. I really couldn't say how I would have dealt with such a "tiger-by-the-tail" scenario. I can't imagine with corporate uncle Sony peering over my shoulder that trying to cool the hype would fly as a plan, but... yeah.

I predicted long, long, ago in a post that they'd have to deal with some level of backlash because of it, but this seems much worse than I expected.

Either way, I stand behind every word I've written on this matter, and I truly detest the adversarialism of the whole system.

I know what you mean. I try hard to only talk about what's actually in my game instead of getting caught up in trying to hype it up. Maybe that's why there's no hype to begin with. Heh, heh. I'll admit I'm not a PR guy, though. My general rule of thumb is to not talk about things that aren't in the game an if something changed, just make a blog post about it. I do not want to be in a situation these guys are in.

 

[Osla]

Just browsed through NMS's wonderful Wikipedia entry, which should probably be rewritten for a large part...

So sad.

 

[themadcowtipper]

The had rotating planets and orbits, real stars and infinite universe in February according to Sean. They must have spent all the time since February taking out features from the game.

They had time to remove every hint of cut game features, but left the E3 folder from years ago in the game code......
I think It is possible that some of the said features only existed in Sean's head.

 

[-Ryn]

Maybe, but who am I to say. I'm having enough fun with the game now so if some of these features make their way in a little further down the road, I'll be happy with it.

Someone who bought the game. You are completely justified in calling out a product that wasn't what it was advertised to be. Hell, even if you didn't buy the game you would be.

Whether or not you are enjoying the game despite that (and that's all well and good for you) doesn't change the fact that it is wrong. Whether it was a straight up lie or an unintentional miscommunication, not being honest about your product is bullshit.

 

[Kinyou]

I noticed two good points in the last pages and I think is worth mentioning them again.

First, the fact that Sean refuses to answer any questions from the media about this paints his character in a shady light.

And secondly, instead of feeling sorry for Sean, I would rather feel sorry for the guys who have Sean as their boss and are getting their reputation tarnished by the lies of their boss.

And for all the new comers in this thread, read this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/02/artificial-universe-no-mans-sky/463308/

It's from February this year.





Then go back to the game and admire the wonderful rotation of the planet and the real physics of the star systems, with planets orbiting around their reachable star. And enjoy traveling this infinite universe where you can't fly to the next system without a loading screen.

Yeah that one really cuts deep. Now way have they changed the entire tech for solar systems, hell the entire way they build up the game space, that fast.

 

[OraleeWey]

You guys remember that time lapse IGN made a few months ago? Was the planet rotating or was it a "skybox"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18jOzi3fGw

 

[nynt9]

You guys remember that time lapse IGN made a few months ago? Was the planet rotating or was it a "skybox"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18jOzi3fGw

Planets rotate around their own axis right now. Not around a star. The skybox is at the star system level, not the planet level.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

You guys remember that time lapse IGN made a few months ago? Was the planet rotating or was it a "skybox"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e18jOzi3fGw

Planets rotate around their own axis right now. Not around a star. The skybox is at the star system level, not the planet level.

Again,

Proof that planets do not rotate. https://youtu.be/CgP1EM2vtxk?t=82

Thanks to KKRT00.

 

[nynt9]

Again,

Proof that planets do not rotate. https://youtu.be/CgP1EM2vtxk?t=82

Thanks to KKRT00.

Oh wow, even that was a lie huh? I guess I was misinformed about that one, disappointment going even further.

 

[Pestilence11]

It would be interesting to see if they rotated at all in v1.00 even. Someone with a physical copy could backup their save and test it.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Again,

Proof that planets do not rotate. https://youtu.be/CgP1EM2vtxk?t=82

Thanks to KKRT00.

Wait - not to argue or anything, but how does this video disprove the original IGN video??

 

[sazzy]

Wait - not to argue or anything, but how does this video disprove the original IGN video??

go to 1:30

2 moons/planets in the sky. stuck in the same place while the day night cycle happens behind them.

we know those 2 objects can be reached. if the planet you're on were rotating, the 2 objects would also move along the sky.

since they don't, it means the planets are all stationary. the sky, sun, and stars are all just backgrounds.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Some people are having a kick out of comparing E3 footage with some things found these days..

 

[Krappadizzle]

Some people are having a kick out of comparing E3 footage with some things found these days..

I would love a count of how many times per thread this gif has been posted.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I would love a count of how many times per thread this gif has been posted.

I just found it funny.

EDIT: Goddamit, it's been posted eighteen times in this thread alone.

 

[Axiology]

A lot of the claims on the Reddit list aren't anything like false advertising. More of a difference of opinion or exaggeration. False advertising usually isn't actionable unless it's clearly a demonstrably false statement. "This is the best pizza in town!" isn't really something you can prove false. "Our medium pizza is 50% bigger than National Chain PJ's medium pizza!" can be proven true or false.

Once you start getting in to matters of interpretation and subjects where different people have reasonably different reactions, it's not really false advertising any more. It certainly can be a case of not managing your customers' expectations and not satisfying those expectations, even those reasonable expectations. But false advertising is a higher level, and most of the Reddit link didn't really seem like it was up to that point.

"A lot" of the claims
"Most" of the Reddit link

So if he false advertised on 45% of what was listed it's all perfectly ok? What's the point of this?

 

[Krappadizzle]

I just found it funny.

EDIT: Goddamit, it's been posted eighteen times in this thread alone.

Thanks. I was curious.

 

[Head.spawn]

Some people are having a kick out of comparing E3 footage with some things found these days..

Holy shit.

 

[Bsigg12]

I would love a count of how many times per thread this gif has been posted.

Per thread? Try per page in this thread alone.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Has anyone posted CrowbCat's video yet?

Damn...Sean fucked up.

 

[Speely]

The drama of this release will outlive the relevance of this game.

 

[NoFaceNico]

This might be a dumb question but has anyone tried landing on a small planet, then walking in one direction long enough to circle the planet and meet back up with your ship?