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[Salty Rice]

Nah the criticism is totally fair. Its maybe the biggest reason why Vita failed.

I bought one 64 GB card and thats it.

Never gonna buy any other card for that stupid price and thats not remotely enough space i need so thats why maybe not play that much Vita.

 

[Devil]

Did you read the OP, if they offered SD cards - the hardware RRP price would probably most likely go up. The Vita system is probably cheaper because of the memory cards, because Sony knew that if they priced the system $50 higher then it would get a lot less sales. They saved you money.

You were arguing that internal memory would bring the price up. What does that have to do with the system possibly using SD cards? Why would the Vita be more expensive with a SD card reader to add optional storage instead of a memory card reader? Makes no sense.

 

[Gaogaogao]

op is trying way too hard. micro sd cards are way cheaper and do more stuff, thanks to being non proprietary. price is artificially inflated due to low supply and no competition.

 

[Quote]

You were arguing that internal memory would bring the price up. What does that have to do with the system possibly using SD cards? Why would the Vita be more expensive with a SD card reader to add optional storage instead of a memory card reader? Makes no sense.

He is saying they hid the profit for the Vita in the memory cards, which may be true but it still was a bad call.

 

[Aostia]

Why not?

Because you calculated the actual hw price, because they are mandatory for many games, so basically they cost way too much for what they are and being calculated alongside the hw due to the fact that you have to buy them is a scum

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Nah the criticism is totally fair. Its maybe the biggest reason why Vita failed.

I bought one 64 GB card and thats it.

Never gonna buy any other card for that stupid price and thats not remotely enough space i need so thats why maybe not play that much Vita.

If you have a 64GB memory card and you still don't play it that has more to do with the games rather than the space I think.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Maybe that was the thoughtrain but it didn't help them in any way shape or form.

Sony has always been thirsty to own formats and used its hardware to push it. Blu ray being the only one I know that was a success.

 

[Japanmanx3]

The criticism is fair and justified. Prices are still ridiculous.

 

[Gravijah]

Look, the memory cards were too expensive.

 

[IsntChrisL]

They deserve the criticism. It's yet another failed proprietary format Sony made hoping to cash in on.

 

[synce]

If the Vita did things right it wouldn't have to be compared to an iphone at all, but rather an android. I just bought 128gb of memory for $30. Can't do that on iphone or vita

 

[Omnii-chan]

Vita memory card pricing is worse than having to use a shitty tablet to access console settings when you sell a standard form factor controller. So yea.

Agreed, both are dumb, but memory card pricing killed the Vita from mainstream, which in turn helped kill the system in general.

Vita memory cards cost 3-4x the amount of another card type with the same amount of storage here. Criminal.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

SD Card prices:

8gb: $6
16gb: $9
32gb: $21
64gb: $31

BINGO.

The actual market price of memory cards are $0.50/GB. Sony is charging $2/GB.

 

[Eclectic Jabber Monkey]

This might sound arrogant, but i didn't even bother reading the thread because there is literally no reason for anyone in their right minds to defend Sony for this. When i can purchase a 64gb micro sd for almost 1/5 the price of a 64gb vita card, you know something is not right.

I read a few paragraphs of the OP and couldn't do it anymore, you didn't miss much.

To me when Nintendo of all companies drops propriety storage cards for their devices, the writing is on the wall that the era is over. If they thought they could make significant money on it they would have, but realized that storage is now a commodity product.

The Vita card debacle is in many ways much worse than their old attempts at doing it with Beta, for example, where it was a actually better than product than what competition was selling. Vita card pricing was and still is just an embarrassingly obvious cash grab, just like Xbox 360 hard drive upgrade prices were, a joke.

 

[Brat-Sampson]

The criticism is fully deserved, the pricing on those proprietary cards compared to basically any other card storage is insane. As has been said, it's more than double per gig in some cases. Any way you slice it, that looks like a terrible value proposition for a consumer. Because it is.

If they'd built the memory into the hardware and not allowed expandability that would've been even worse, and most people hate that it's now that way on phones. It's anti-consumer. But you can't justify this by saying 'But think of all the other things they could've done, you should be thankful they only did this instead.' It's... a weird argument.

 

[TyMiles2012]

No, they're very expensive. It wouldn't help piracy either, that was their goal, as someone with the willpower WILL reverse engineer it. It's already happening at this point, using Henkaku just made it the most possible of any native exploit. They could have just stuck with MicroSD cards and encrypted the files, not to say the Vita filesystem wasn't encrypted, but it was.

 

[Jimrpg]

You were arguing that internal memory would bring the price up. What does that have to do with the system possibly using SD cards? Why would the Vita be more expensive with a SD card reader to add optional storage instead of a memory card reader? Makes no sense.

He is saying they hid the profit for the Vita in the memory cards, which may be true but it still was a bad call.

^ This.

Sony wanted to make their money either way, with or without proprietary memory card. So for example -

Vita with micro SD Card slot = $200*

Vita with proprietrary memory card slot + memory card = $150* + $50 = $200

They make the same amount of margin/profit for both.

Do you prefer the Vita at $150 entry point and give you some choice how much storage you want and how much you want to pay for? Or would you rather a Vita with a micro SD card slot that is more expensive where they can't sell you a memory card down the track?

Sony made the decision to make the upfront hardware cost lower.

(Prices plucked out of thin air as an example only)

 

[billythemule]

Are the Vita memory cards any faster than regular micro SD cards? If you compare the internal memory of a Samsung phone, it's like 3 times as fast as an SD card.

 

[score01]

OP, Apple charging joke prices for memory/storage/size on their phones doesn't make Sonys charges for Vita memory any less of a joke.

 

[foolishoptimist]

So you're suggesting that users should have to pay significantly above the going rate for memory because it's Sony's DRM?

They could have sold a proprietary format at prices similar to (or hell, even no more than twice as much) as the industry standard, and people wouldn't care so much.

Your explanation is a good argument in favour of a proprietary format. It does not explain why Sony price their memory cards like a high margin accessory.

Didn't say we 'should' have to. And it doesn't change the price either way, if you can't afford it. But people like to post "Lol, Sony and their plan for proprietary format domination" without actually thinking.

Even now, how much money do you think Sony are making on Vita memory cards, when they're selling in the very low thousands of Vitas every month? Typically, the less of something you make, the more each costs to make.

If Sony were actually sitting on fat margins on cards they weren't selling, don't you think we'd have seen more price cuts to spur sales?

 

[psyfi]

Your argument makes zero since, OP. Sorry.

 

[KojiKnight]

Are the Vita memory cards any faster than regular micro SD cards? If you compare the internal memory of a Samsung phone, it's like 3 times as fast as an SD card.

They are literally mmc cards with a propriety connector and a custom encryption setup.

 

[old manatee]

They should have just used regular SD cards, but introduced their own overpriced line of Official Sony Branded regular SD card, with Limited Edition images on them of iconic Sony mascots like Kratos and Sackboy.

 

[risq_aus]

Lol OP, no it isn't. It's completely fair.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

They are literally mmc cards with a propriety connector and a custom encryption setup.

So are Vita cards slower than SD?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

As an owner of a 64GB and a Vita fan, I am shocked you're defending this, honestly. A 128GB SD Card costs less than a 64GB Vita memory card, as others have said. That should tell you all you need to know about how 'unfair' the criticism is.

 

[Afrit]

The demand for Vita memeories will skyrocket soon. Everyone will get multiples to run their "backed up" games...

 

[mokalovesoulmate]

Probably those proprietary cards has features that Sony needs, while that kind of features is not possible on SD cards (on hardware level).

 

[KojiKnight]

So are Vita cards slower than SD?

Just like sd cards, it can have varying speeds. I don't know the exact throughput on vita cards to say for sure.

If you have a cell phone, your built in flash memory is most likely emmc (mmc set into your phone with it's own microcontroller).

Lots of factors play into speed with any memory card, including the reader.

 

[RoadHazard]

Apple charging ridiculous amounts for larger storage doesn't make it right for Sony to also do it.

 

[LewieP]

Probably those proprietary cards has features that Sony needs, while that kind of features is not possible on SD cards (on hardware level).

Features that Sony need like DRM, that provide zero benefit to users, but users have to pay significantly over the odds for. Real compelling deal.

 

[NumberThree]

Do you prefer the Vita at $150 entry point and give you some choice how much storage you want and how much you want to pay for? Or would you rather a Vita with a micro SD card slot that is more expensive where they can't sell you a memory card down the track?

The latter of course.

 

[Jimrpg]

The latter of course.

Well the latter would allow you cheaper memory cards in the long run. Though as a few people have said already, most users only get 1 or 2 cards at the very most.

Sony just want the entry price lowered.

Anyway I'm not here to defend all their moves. I'm just saying that the memory card price was related to their hardware price knowing that everyone would have to buy both.

 

[Skyzard]

In a way I'm glad the prices are higher. Prevents the cheapskate pirates jumping in and waiting for hacks.

Though it does suck a bit for others of course as digital is the most convenient way to use the Vita and I jumped in at 64GB long, long ago.

 

[stan423321]

Last time Sony let people use a none proprietary format on PSP hackers used it to fuck them with piracy, oh wait i'm sorry "homebrew" piracy's hipster cousin. They trusted people and people fucked them. I'm not surprised they went back to a proprietary format. If you leave your front door open and someone robs you, you learn to lock the fucking door.

And the custom card format helped them how (over just encrypted files), exactly? It's not like 3DS hacking makes that much use of SD cards being standard.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Features that Sony need like DRM, that provide zero benefit to users, but users have to pay significantly over the odds for. Real compelling deal.

Well, it depends on how the situation would unfold given that decision. For the PSP, piracy resulted in a steep drop off in games being made for it, which makes for a worse system than one with a slightly higher price up front but still has awesome games coming out, despite being a Dead Plaform.

I still think the Vita is a better deal than the 3DS with SD card support, but the price of first-party games never drops.

 

[Roto Prime]

Well, it depends on how the situation would unfold given that decision. For the PSP, piracy resulted in a steep drop off in games being made for it, which makes for a worse system than one with a slightly higher price up front but still has awesome games coming out, despite being a Dead Plaform.

I still think the Vita is a better deal than the 3DS with SD card support, but the price of first-party games never drops.

For some reason, I feel the 3DS with SD cards is a way better deal. I will bet Poke-Bucks that if Vita used SDXC micro cards it would have SOLD like 10x better.

 

[visiblemode]

Damn OP. I came here expecting to read your post and say "no one is more obsessed with their Vita than I am, but they messed up the memory cards, disagree."

Then I read what you had to say and you're looking at a convert, of a sort.

I still think it was "a failure" because the market tolerated it poorly (that may have been down to marketing, in general) but you've successfully illustrated the answer to the long standing mystery at the heart of all this. The question of "what were they thinking?"

You, OP, have pretty clearly made a logical case for their rationale, and you know, I think you're right, people have been a somewhat unfair. Then again, that's what people do.

 

[Inuhanyou]

No it is not OP.

Why did Sony not use standardized SD cards?

 

[LewieP]

Well, it depends on how the situation would unfold given that decision. For the PSP, piracy resulted in a steep drop off in games being made for it, which makes for a worse system than one with a slightly higher price up front but still has awesome games coming out, despite being a Dead Plaform.

I still think the Vita is a better deal than the 3DS with SD card support, but the price of first-party games never drops.

Yes because of the proprietary memory cards on Vita, it's received great first party support.

You are wrong. Had they used an industry standard memory card format, the increase in user-base would have more than outweighed any loss of software sales from piracy.

 

[wrowa]

I only own a 16 GB card because I just can't justify spending the money to upgrade to a bigger card. I passed on buying quite a few Vita game due to that, actually (mostly during sales, though), since I'm always wondering back in my head if I really want to bother with juggling around my games, especially since it's kind of a pain to backup your save files (there are PS Plus cloud saves... but if I'll ever stop paying for PS Plus I'd need to redownload a billion games and save files to them back them up on my PC... Ugh).

Last time Sony let people use a none proprietary format on PSP hackers used it to fuck them with piracy, oh wait i'm sorry "homebrew" piracy's hipster cousin. They trusted people and people fucked them. I'm not surprised they went back to a proprietary format. If you leave your front door open and someone robs you, you learn to lock the fucking door.

DS was piracy heaven and did that stop Nintendo from offering SD support on 3DS? Nope, it didn't. Did this decision hurt the 3DS? Nope, it didn't. To this day, piracy hasn't become a widespread problem on 3DS yet.

 

[VLiberty]

Well, it depends on how the situation would unfold given that decision. For the PSP, piracy resulted in a steep drop off in games being made for it, which makes for a worse system than one with a slightly higher price up front but still has awesome games coming out, despite being a Dead Plaform.

I still think the Vita is a better deal than the 3DS with SD card support, but the price of first-party games never drops.

That's just not true. First, because PSP was selling software no less than the Gameboy line. And then because the PSP sufferred just a short period of drain 2008...outside of that, the support has been crazy until 2011

 

[KojiKnight]

In a way I'm glad the prices are higher. Prevents the cheapskate pirates jumping in and waiting for hacks.

Though it does suck a bit for others of course as digital is the most convenient way to use the Vita and I jumped in at 64GB long, long ago.

This is some huge mental gymnastics... "I'm glad the prices have always been high and never really came down, so that 4 years after release pirates will have to pay the same inflated card prices legitimate users have been having to pay."

 

[wrowa]

In a way I'm glad the prices are higher. Prevents the cheapskate pirates jumping in and waiting for hacks.

Though it does suck a bit for others of course as digital is the most convenient way to use the Vita and I jumped in at 64GB long, long ago.

Combat piracy by discouraging honest customers to buy games.

Brilliant.

 

[LewieP]

The piracy argument really is ludicrous.

"Lets make our platform really unattractive to potential customers because it might help stop piracy".

At least Microsoft had the sense to backtrack from the always online stuff for the Xbox One.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I can't believe you actually spent time writing out a defense to Sony's ridiculous prices on these things.

They're too expensive - the end.

They should have released a $299 console with 8 GB of storage, a $399 console with 32 GB, and a $499 console with 64 GB... would people have been much happier with Apple iPhone like storage premiums (something Samsung also dabbles with quite well too actually IIRC)?

If they had allowed any random SD card to be used to extend memory storage, would you have supported mandatory read/write speed checks on the card or pretended that developers supported a game that had tonne streamed from potentially a super el-cheapo SD card with abhorrent and not reliable read speed?

I think sometimes the greatest of outrages can be a matter of perception, one that in this case may have helped sink the console IMHO (maybe not, but I think there was space for it in the market and genuinely it is the best console the I have ever purchased overall... and it has a lot of great software as well as awesome PSOne and PSO BC and one of the fastest console OS's ever... I need to understand why people seem to dislike it so much).

Also, someone mentioned them being reformatted SD cards anyways, is there a link for it?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Just like sd cards, it can have varying speeds. I don't know the exact throughput on vita cards to say for sure.

If you have a cell phone, your built in flash memory is most likely emmc (mmc set into your phone with it's own microcontroller).

Lots of factors play into speed with any memory card, including the reader.

So they may be faster and justify their higher price a bit more?

 

[ArtHands]

^ This.

Sony wanted to make their money either way, with or without proprietary memory card. So for example -

Vita with micro SD Card slot = $200*

Vita with proprietrary memory card slot + memory card = $150* + $50 = $200

They make the same amount of margin/profit for both.

Do you prefer the Vita at $150 entry point and give you some choice how much storage you want and how much you want to pay for? Or would you rather a Vita with a micro SD card slot that is more expensive where they can't sell you a memory card down the track?

Sony made the decision to make the upfront hardware cost lower.

(Prices plucked out of thin air as an example only)

I dont think you get it. We know the high memory card is to offset the low hardware cost, and we know this is where Sony is coming from. And that's why we didn't get fooled by Sony.

people don't want to get locked into buying Sony's expensive and proprietary card when they want to upgrade the storage thereafter. $200 vita with microsd card is the obvious better choice

 

[KojiKnight]

They should have released a $299 console with 8 GB of storage, a $399 console with 32 GB, and a $499 console with 64 GB... would people have been much happier with Apple iPhone like storage premiums (something Samsung also dabbles with quite well too actually IIRC)?

If they had allowed any random SD card to be used to extend memory storage, would you have supported mandatory read/write speed checks on the card or pretended that developers supported a game that had tonne streamed from potentially a super el-cheapo SD card with abhorrent and not reliable read speed?

I think sometimes the greatest of outrages can be a matter of perception, one that in this case may have helped sink the console IMHO (maybe not, but I think there was space for it in the market and genuinely it is the best console the I have ever purchased overall... and it has a lot of great software as well as awesome PSOne and PSO BC and one of the fastest console OS's ever... I need to understand why people seem to dislike it so much).

Also, someone mentioned them being reformatted SD cards anyways, is there a link for it?

There's an article on wololo.net, on my phone so can't search for it right now

 

[timshundo]

"Sympathize with Sony" :|

Does OP logically explain the price of the external memory? Sure.

Are consumers responsible for educating themselves on why these proprietary microSD cards are priced at a 3-4x premium because of Sony's profit gymnastics? No. I'm not exactly sure how to word this but Sony should have foreseen the psychological aspect of tying in the decreased cost of the console into the price of the external memory. If Apple tried to pull that crap I would not support them either.