SpecialAgentDaleCooper
Banned
It bothers me far less than the hurr de durr, git gud culture that think a difficulty setting would ruin the entire experience and end up being elitist gatekeepers.
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Souls fans, does the difficulty misconception frustrate you?
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
It bothers me far less than the hurr de durr, git gud culture that think a difficulty setting would ruin the entire experience and end up being elitist gatekeepers.
I think it's weird people think the Souls-games are hard. Yes, they can be hard when using certain builds or playing it in a certain way, but getting help from other people in boss fights and trying to play more strategic cuts down the difficulty significantly. As soon as you find that out as a player, you discover the difficulty only adds to an already very flexible game that let's you play it the way you want it. At least, that's how I see it.
WAR recon zero
Banned
This.
The game is hard. It's not for everybody. Stop trying to think that everyone will git gud
WAR recon zero
Banned
I say A difficulty setting would bring more people to the series. But oh hey whatevs
SlipperyFishes
Banned
I hate when people label DS2 as being my some mythical B-team simply because the highs aren't the same as those of the first game.
It has its own cadence of a world in decay and I'm fine with that. If I had to label each entry:
Ouroboros of Flame
The Endured Hollowing
Echoes Fade, Ash Falls
Dr. Buni
Member
I couldn't care less about what people think about the games and their difficulty.
The highs are even higher than in the first game. Dark Souls 2 >>>>>> Dark Souls.
WAR recon zero
Banned
I tried to beat dark souls. I was doing until i got to Ornstein and Smough. I wrote off souls games ever since.
But yesterday i beat bloodborne. It was my first beat in a souls game and it was the gaming experience of the year
Patience is key but the game does have bullshit moments were casuals will struggle
I will return to That ornstein cunt
But yesterday i beat bloodborne. It was my first beat in a souls game and it was the gaming experience of the year
Patience is key but the game does have bullshit moments were casuals will struggle
I will return to That ornstein cunt
WAR recon zero
Banned
I hate when people is being elitist and not wanting a cut of the population to enjoy the game
AntiFacebook
Member
Dark souls 2 is better than bloodborne
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Hey I'm the biggest DS2 defender but if you're coming to the series fresh and play in order then the firstbgamesnpretty tough to overcome for the big moments.
One thing we can agree on. DS3 has none worth mentioning.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I don't really see any misconceptions. The SoulsBorne games are hard games, that's a fact. They require patience from gamers to hone their skills and learn the mechanics of the game, and not everyone enjoys playing hard games or have the time to sink into gitting gud (me included).
lukeskymac
Member
I recently killed Laurence for the first time. It was at NG+4 (I always forgot he existed). I can't honestly imagine that someone would consider a boss that can one shot you, has 270o arc attacks and can staggerlock you to be "easy" or "normal".
I do get what OP is saying, though. Souls in general is definitely not trying to be the hardest game in existence, and it's sad that that's what it's often reduced to in today's mostly mind-numbing-ly easy games.
I do get what OP is saying, though. Souls in general is definitely not trying to be the hardest game in existence, and it's sad that that's what it's often reduced to in today's mostly mind-numbing-ly easy games.
This guy is right. Last Boss, Demons Souls, you lose levels when he beats you. So you have to grind your levels back for each time you try that boss.
Is that "hard"? Maybe not, because by definition, you only have to re-beat content you already did to get to him. Is it brutal? It definitely is. I beat Demons Souls but then I dropped the games until Bloodborne. I beat that too and swore "never again". These games are really too much for me and I get pushed to the limits in my job, I don't really want my leisure time to destroy me as well.
There are enemies that you're not supposed to be able to kill until later.
It's the game's way of telling you to come back later. There were entire areas like this in DS1.
...because you are a gamer = someone who is willing to invest his time into mastering a game's mechanics. Darks Souls is easier to teach to an unexperienced player though because of the slower pace. Fighting one or two enemies at a time with a simple control layout is much easier than having to learn combos and all the other movement options in NG with 10 enemies fighting you at the same time. NG has difficulty options, I'll give you that. Oh, did I forget to mention that NG1 had one of the most frustrating moments in my gaming career: there is a short plattforming sequence and the controls don't work with it.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
And yes, Dark Souls is hard. You wouldn't have the described sense of accomplishment if it wasn't hard. Saying "anyone can do it" is along the same lines as saying anyone can be a competitive Street Fighter player or hit a 90 mph fastball with a little practice. Most people don't have the skill or patience, don't enjoy the effort it takes to gain that skill and patience, and don't see the reward for acquiring such specific talent as worth it, so games over a distinct skill threshold remain in a niche. If a game requires you to be hunched over a printout of a Gamefaqs strategy guide or have your laptop open with a let's play or to have people on a forum explain basic gameplay concepts that are intentionally obscured, it's not going to be the go to game off the shelf.
The camera in NG1 actively fights you in the horse/bow boss fight. It really is terrible.
The camera in NG1 actively fights you in the horse/bow boss fight. It really is terrible.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Only when souls fans play other games, then say shit like "I've beaten all the souls game, but this is just bullshit artificial difficulty".
Nioh alpha thread, fuck me.
Freeman76
Member
Personally i think saying they arent hard is bullshit. They are punishing and brutal games and deserve the reputation they get. Of course they become easy after putting 300 hours into the series like most people here have. When Demons Souls first came out and bosses like Maneater/Firelurker owned me repeatedly i never thought i would beat them. What i find more annoying than anything is people in the top 5% of skill level who find them easy and make out like everyone else should, shortsighted and pretty ignorant too.
Artificial difficulty is the dumbest fucking term.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Sounds like a bit of a conceited stealth brag thread to me.
Diprosalic
Banned
They aren't even that difficult, actually a bit on the easy side considering everybody plays it on the same difficulty.
I do think that the Souls series are more difficult and challenging than most mainstream games because most games do not require the level of patience, awareness, and understanding of the gameplay mechanics that the Souls games expect. I actually find it a little annoying when people say the series is easy if others just "play more strategically" or "adapt to the game" without realizing the very fact that the game requires is what makes it a difficult game.
However, it is frustrating that they're seen as unfairly difficult games, with a level of difficulty that is more about constant, frustrating trial and error, instead of the patient and rewarding challenge that the Souls games are so perfect at.
However, it is frustrating that they're seen as unfairly difficult games, with a level of difficulty that is more about constant, frustrating trial and error, instead of the patient and rewarding challenge that the Souls games are so perfect at.
Yeah, I tried getting some of my friends into Souls games by buying them copies of Dark Souls and Bloodborne, and all they did was rush everything without learning how to properly play. Most of them couldn't even beat Asylum Demon or even get to Cleric Beast with hours of trying because they kept making the same mistakes without learning from them.
Now only one friend has actually made progress, he's currently in Hemwick Charnel Lane in Bloodborne.
Now only one friend has actually made progress, he's currently in Hemwick Charnel Lane in Bloodborne.
BibiMaghoo
Member
It is not a misconception...
By any other games scale, they are all hard games. You can define that difficulty how you want, but anyone saying they are not hard games are either speaking for themselves rather than objectively talking about the games, or are just outright wrong. The way they are designed is to make them hard, again by any comparison to it's peers. The games do not exist in a vacuum, and so their difficulty is perceived against everything else, and they are without question more difficult, and clearly deliberately so.
The misconception they are not hard games frustrates me, because the only reason not to acknowledge the obvious is to circle jerk over how great you are at a hard set of games. I have finished Demons and Dark. They were harder than anything else I played on their respective systems. I have not finished Blooborne, but it is clearly harder than anything else on the system. It is foolish to deny they are designed to be difficult, and I see little reason to do so, even if you breezed through all the games.
By any other games scale, they are all hard games. You can define that difficulty how you want, but anyone saying they are not hard games are either speaking for themselves rather than objectively talking about the games, or are just outright wrong. The way they are designed is to make them hard, again by any comparison to it's peers. The games do not exist in a vacuum, and so their difficulty is perceived against everything else, and they are without question more difficult, and clearly deliberately so.
The misconception they are not hard games frustrates me, because the only reason not to acknowledge the obvious is to circle jerk over how great you are at a hard set of games. I have finished Demons and Dark. They were harder than anything else I played on their respective systems. I have not finished Blooborne, but it is clearly harder than anything else on the system. It is foolish to deny they are designed to be difficult, and I see little reason to do so, even if you breezed through all the games.
Check this super easy game. Just need to press right buttons at the right time and that`s it! Don`t get people saying this game is hard lol.
https://youtu.be/kIAqag8NQAc?t=15
https://youtu.be/kIAqag8NQAc?t=15
SpecialAgentDaleCooper
Banned
Much worse than the difficulty of Dark Souls (only one I've bothered with thus far) is the repetition, its not so much hard as it is memorization and learning the patterns of attack/locations of enemies.
Yes, it's a shame that some people don't try these games purely because of the games' reputation as being some of the hardest games out there (although they aren't), BUT of course Souls games can be considered "hard" or at least "challenging". If the games were easy, beating bosses wouldn't even feel rewarding and I think that most Souls fans can agree that overcoming those bosses is a great feeling.
When I try to convince friends to try out the games I usually say that the difficulty of these game is often exaggerated, but that it doesn't mean that they are easy either. They are challenging enough to evoke a sense of accomplishment when overcoming certain obstacles.
When I try to convince friends to try out the games I usually say that the difficulty of these game is often exaggerated, but that it doesn't mean that they are easy either. They are challenging enough to evoke a sense of accomplishment when overcoming certain obstacles.
hydrophilic attack
Member
after getting better at them i wish they were harder tbqh
i beat so many bosses in III on my first or second attempt
i beat so many bosses in III on my first or second attempt
Fancy Clown
Member
looool
Imp the Dimp
Member
Misconception? I've played all Souls games and they are certainly 200% harder than virtually any contemporary AAA game. Whether or not the difficulty is their main appeal is up for debate, but clearly, taking the average popular game as a reference, any Souls game is way harder and more unforgiving.
OP basically says "if you git gud, it ain't hard". What logic is that?
OP basically says "if you git gud, it ain't hard". What logic is that?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I find the games to be hard and I'm an older gamer. My question is how do you not go in blind? Are all of those claiming how easy the game is consulting strategy guides and watching YouTube videos on what to do and where to go?
lukeskymac
Member
I would have enjoyed (and probably actually took the time to beat) the Nioh alpha demo ten thousand times more if it wasn't for the absolutely bullshit weapon degradation. THAT's artificial difficulty.
Like every Souls thread in Gaf's existence. "Bloodborne is super easy, Demon's Souls is still the hardest game....yadda, yadda". The games are hard, period, because they require a certain mindset, that isn't obvious to newbies/ unexperienced gamers and at a certain point it requires you to be precise and flawless. Bloodborne's chalice-version Amigdala was extremely hard for me - a Soul's veteran - because the reduced health and her having like 1 million hit points requires you to operate without one mistake for like 10-15 minutes. Easy mode, aka summoning, didn't work either, because those suckers all died like flies. Killed her alone, happy like a farting baby, but exhausted like a 90 year old man.
I can already see the future...three posts later someone will step in and say: she's super easy, all you have to do is x= a) git gud b) don't die c) parry that bitch
Auto-Reply
Member
They are not as hard as their reputation make them out to be but that doesn't mean they are easy either.
Even if you completely shift the responsibility of the games difficulty to the players patience and willingness to adapt to the game then these games are still harder than most games.
Even if you completely shift the responsibility of the games difficulty to the players patience and willingness to adapt to the game then these games are still harder than most games.
Fbh
Member
Can't really blame people for thinking the game is hard when that's what the marketing for it keeps focusing on. "Prepare to die" is like the main phrase related to the franchise.
The real misconception is what makes these games hard. These games don't need lightning fast reflexes or being able to input complex combos in a short amount of time.
The real hard part is the learning curve, it's realising that if you observe the environment you can find most traps and abushes, that combat is more about timing than combos, that giving up your souls and just doing a suicide exploration run to get to know a new location is a good strategy, etc
In terms of pure skill with a controller I think something like Super Meat Boy, Ninja Gaiden Black or Furi are waaaay harder.
But in an age of constant checkpoints, waypoints and exploration which comes down to following the GPS on the minimap and giant red glowing weak points, the souls games are definitely hard for people not used to them
Also, just like most fandoms, the one of this franchise can also be annoying. Getting agrresive towards anyone who dares to say something negative about the game or is considered to not be playing the game in the right way
The real misconception is what makes these games hard. These games don't need lightning fast reflexes or being able to input complex combos in a short amount of time.
The real hard part is the learning curve, it's realising that if you observe the environment you can find most traps and abushes, that combat is more about timing than combos, that giving up your souls and just doing a suicide exploration run to get to know a new location is a good strategy, etc
In terms of pure skill with a controller I think something like Super Meat Boy, Ninja Gaiden Black or Furi are waaaay harder.
But in an age of constant checkpoints, waypoints and exploration which comes down to following the GPS on the minimap and giant red glowing weak points, the souls games are definitely hard for people not used to them
Also, just like most fandoms, the one of this franchise can also be annoying. Getting agrresive towards anyone who dares to say something negative about the game or is considered to not be playing the game in the right way
SkylineRKR
Member
Souls are relatively easy games. Yeah there are some optional hard fights but KH1 had Sephiroth as well. I probably died much more in Evil Within on standard difficulty than in Dark Souls.
Souls has checkpoints all over the place, it has good weapons everywhere. You just need to experiment a bit.
Souls has checkpoints all over the place, it has good weapons everywhere. You just need to experiment a bit.
The souls series is tough. Sometimes relentlessly so but it has a solid core of mechanics which are taught to you through constant failure. This is a niche series that has peeked into the mainstream, and they absoltely aren't for everyone. I identify somewhere directly in the middle with the series: I appreciate the arpg experience, I love the design of the creatures and the world, but it is not a series that respects your time, and expects you to drop everything around you to learn the ins and outs of its design. I personally do not have the time for this, but I respect those that are able to invest the time into completing them.
As an additional thought, I don't not feel as if the comparison to classic games such as Shinobi or Castlevania is fair. While those games have patterns which you have to learn, they are very much so "pick up and play" titles and can be completed in a sitting.
As an additional thought, I don't not feel as if the comparison to classic games such as Shinobi or Castlevania is fair. While those games have patterns which you have to learn, they are very much so "pick up and play" titles and can be completed in a sitting.
It's just that the Souls games - in contrast to many other games perceived to be 'hard' - offer a full breath of options to make them as easy as you want them to be. You can coop with other people, you can even summon NPC to help you or you can just grind for levels, since you can go back whenever. There are games were you legitimately have to 'git gud' in order to beat a boss or whatever, but Souls do have this fallback that almost trivializes every encounter.
Of course it's hard to find a game these days without difficulty options to make it piss easy if you wanted to, but in the case of the Souls games it's not simply switch but actual mechanics.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
They market it as being hard, I mean there wasnt there a "prepare to die" edition?
The jank of the souls series is what puts me off, along with its extremely cryptic nature. Bloodborne is the only souls game I enjoyed.
The difficulty thing always felt a bit artificial to me because of the jank that makes it harder. The games are tough by default no doubt, but there are much harder games out there on higher difficulties like DMC 3 and 4, or Bayonetta.
The jank of the souls series is what puts me off, along with its extremely cryptic nature. Bloodborne is the only souls game I enjoyed.
The difficulty thing always felt a bit artificial to me because of the jank that makes it harder. The games are tough by default no doubt, but there are much harder games out there on higher difficulties like DMC 3 and 4, or Bayonetta.
I get more frustrated at people slagging off DS2 with misinformation presented as fact.
The Souls games are difficult but the difficulty is definitely over exaggerated. A game like God of War 3 on hard is way harder than any of the Souls games IMO, it's just not many people play on hard.
The Souls games are difficult but the difficulty is definitely over exaggerated. A game like God of War 3 on hard is way harder than any of the Souls games IMO, it's just not many people play on hard.