Even if Trump has the worst 4 years imaginable I don't believe someone like Tim Kaine is the right choice, I'm not sure who is but he definitely isn't, I don't think he'd ever win against Trump.
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Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
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Even if Trump has the worst 4 years imaginable I don't believe someone like Tim Kaine is the right choice, I'm not sure who is but he definitely isn't, I don't think he'd ever win against Trump.
IrishNinja
Member
harsh, but fair
yes, let's vastly oversimplify a complicated issue with tone policing - clearly, not acknowledging bigotry/xenophobia etc as we've done literally for ages now will, as you said, definitely give different results in the future.
yeah, i know we're years out from where we're at now, it's not hard to picture an '04 setting of "anybody but bush" & watching an uninspiring candidate crash & burn against an unpopular incumbent
Especially in light of what a kids glove primary it was on the democratic side. I mean the shit the republicans said about each other should have created much deeper fallout.
D.Lo
Member
They're going to fuck this up again aren't they. Even this thread is full of excuses for them.
She was a remarkably bad candidate. Romney would have beaten her. McCain/Palin would have beaten her. Jeb would have beaten her. And basically the worst Republican ticket possible, with severely restrained support from the Republican machine, just easily beat them.
Team Clinton ran truly one of the worst campaigns run in modern history. Trump was so lucky to run against them, almost anyone else would have crushed him.
Jeb wasn't the lowest energy candidate.
She was a remarkably bad candidate. Romney would have beaten her. McCain/Palin would have beaten her. Jeb would have beaten her. And basically the worst Republican ticket possible, with severely restrained support from the Republican machine, just easily beat them.
Team Clinton ran truly one of the worst campaigns run in modern history. Trump was so lucky to run against them, almost anyone else would have crushed him.
It's just mind boggling. Mostly just sitting around in NY. Events in Beverly Hills, Martha's Vineyard, East Hampton. EAST FUCKING HAMPTON.
Jeb wasn't the lowest energy candidate.
SpideySenses
Member
One of the few very small silver linings for how the loss happened is that everyone on the left is accountable, even if you think you did all you could to get Clinton elected, you're still part of a demographic that underperformed and that deserves reflection. No finger pointing, no self righteousness, just reflection on how wrong it went for people like you and if everyone on the left does that, you might get somewhere.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Great post.
I think the two bolded lines are particularly important. On the one hand, any nominee from one of the two major parties is going to get very typical names thrown at them. For liberals, it tends to be something about socialism or whatever. But you know that's going to happen.
A smart person would not compound the name-calling issue by giving the other side a target with like 30 years of being called names. Whether those names and accusations were fair or not is irrelevant. That history was there, and it was just so silly to run a candidate with that history.
She and her surrogates spent, by my quick count of her event schedule, more time in Ohio and Michigan than just about any other states in the Union during the Fall (I was wrong about PA checking the numbers; chalk that up to recency bias with the final Philly event) and it was pretty much all over both states. She did largely neglect Wisconsin however.
encephalon
Member
How is this in any way in response to what I posted? Are you suggesting that Bernie only lost the primary due to unfair practices?
old manatee
Banned
Nantucket is a tiny island that has a population of 10,000. Mostly liberal. Pretty important campaign stop. She probably picked up 5, maybe even a half dozen votes that day.
supernormal
Member
I'm not happy at all with the outcome, and I was rooting for her, but she has to get a grip if she ever wants to run this country. This is not the right attitude.
At least Jeb! was endearingly awkward (despite still being a piece of shit).
https://vine.co/v/i10dx9apL5Q
JasonUresti
Member
The arrogance is stunning.
Green Yoshi
Member
They will probably, but Bernie is considering it, too.
https://apnews.com/da8e49564b8f4d0684c69f17d6178847
But in my opinion he's too old in 2020 so it will be either Hillary or another candidate.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
She had the presidency served to her on a silver platter, and she threw it on the floor. I would be disgusted if she ran again.
I'm part of the left. I voted and advocated and donated for Bernie. I did the same for her but without authentic vigor. I like so many recognized she was a poor candidate was dismayed as she ran her 2nd disastrous campaign.
I don't own an ounce of this loss. I sympathize with well meaning people who did their best, and I mostly respect the people who mismanaged this whole affair. But I did more than most, and as much as I could. I don't accept any blame for this debacle.
This is on the DNC, and her campaign. Full stop.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
funny stuff
Linkstrikesback
Member
If you can't tell the difference between dealing with the problem through changing peoples views and starting the conversation with "You can vote/do for X...if you're a racist" which loses the chance of changing what the person thinks immediately, then you're not helping the situation, no. A major part of the problem is the people you see in media are the extremists on both sides, which this year has turned out to be the people actively being racist pricks, and the people retorting about how they're racist back, causing both sides to tar most everyone with the respective brush. Internet trench warfare isn't helpful to anyone.
If she tries to run again she just embarrass herself in the primary. Though at least she won't embarrass America in her ineptitude like she did this time.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Jacksinthe
Banned
I read that as: "We learned nothing"
Get fucked.
This honestly just shows how they fucking believe the world revolves around them. Insane.
Get fucked.
This honestly just shows how they fucking believe the world revolves around them. Insane.
What an awful campaign and candidate. Does anyone want to defend that shit?
PdotMichael
Banned
If you really want an answer for your question.
PoliGAF is already back to old strength
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
I didn't want to say anything, but going in there has me worried for some of us.
Meh, recent history has made it pretty clear which wing of the left is the future. They'll come around.
The most frustrating thing about this is that Hilary learned NOTHING from her defeat in 2008 and Sander's strong, dark horse run.
Hubris
Arrogance
Taking shit for granted
Being tone deaf
These were the same damn mistakes she made in 2008, and she fell into the same trap. It is even worse this time around because Sander's dark horse run and her collapse in support in Michigan should have raise a massive warning flag in her head that something's amiss about her campaign.
I've been told for the past 18 months from Hilary diehards that Hilary Clinton was this super smart, experienced person that will get shit done. The news about her tone deafness, ignoring advice, and streaks of arrogance sure as hell betrays that image as far as I can see.
Hubris
Arrogance
Taking shit for granted
Being tone deaf
These were the same damn mistakes she made in 2008, and she fell into the same trap. It is even worse this time around because Sander's dark horse run and her collapse in support in Michigan should have raise a massive warning flag in her head that something's amiss about her campaign.
I've been told for the past 18 months from Hilary diehards that Hilary Clinton was this super smart, experienced person that will get shit done. The news about her tone deafness, ignoring advice, and streaks of arrogance sure as hell betrays that image as far as I can see.
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
This article doesn't surprise me one bit, so many things were unfair to her but she also fucked up. She was a horrible candidate, if she has any self awareness she will disappear from politics altogether, she would have to be crazy to try another run, the Clinton brand is dead.
If she's not willing to accept that she made some mistakes then she deserves every bit of criticism.
If she's not willing to accept that she made some mistakes then she deserves every bit of criticism.
Though I've seen people like Crab standing up against the hard headed consensus in their echo chamber. Hopefully we will remember what PoliGAF did the past year and stand up more firmly against them when they try to muddy the water again in three years.
She's absolutely done. This is the second time she lost while holding the advantage. And this time not even against a charismatic leader who excited America in storm, but a racist idiot that was hated around the world. She was expected to win in a landslide, but ended up losing. She got a 0,1% popular vote edge. Against Trump. Against Donald Trump.
She's done.
The American left now has a racist crypto-fascist in the White House who will almost certainly roll back eight years of legislation and might pose an existential threat to American democracy. But if cooler heads don't prevail we might spend the next few years re-litigating the 2016 Democratic primary which wasn't even particularly close. Hillary supporters need to take the L and learn from it, but so do Bernie supporters. There are bigger things at stake and the most vulnerable among us aren't going to benefit from intramural dick-waving contests. We need to (a) not compromise on bedrock principles but (b) figure out why we lost despite a seemingly favorable national electorate and strategize from there.
She should not run this country.
I agree with her on policy, but she is not the flag we need as our banner.
Perhaps we need a true liberal and not this centrist shit. Perhaps why millennials leaned Sanders: maybe they truly do want a social democracy.
IrishNinja
Member
sugarcoating a platform of white supremacy literally helps no one, acknowledging this one time in one's entire campaign is not the death knell some of you wish to frame it as
not overly interested in equating bigotry with those firmly against it, either - moreover, internet trench warfare certainly didn't hurt trump this time
let's move back to your original statement though: are you positing that brexit wouldn't have happened if everyone was scared to point out just how xenophobic the motion was?
in one breath, it's about unity & whatever, then the poliGAF pile-on continues
If her unfavorability rating was bad before, I'm not sure what it would be right now. It's probably even worse, if that's even possible. They better not try to run her again. She is DONE.
She was an egomaniac that wanted the presidency, convinced minorities to support her, and then got arrogant and dropped the ball. Now that she lost, she's going to blame others and walk off to her mansion. Everyone is fucked, so good job. Shows what she was in it for the whole time.
She was an egomaniac that wanted the presidency, convinced minorities to support her, and then got arrogant and dropped the ball. Now that she lost, she's going to blame others and walk off to her mansion. Everyone is fucked, so good job. Shows what she was in it for the whole time.
DangerMouse
Member
LOL
I said close not that we're there yet LOL. Though I'm kinda curious how good or bad they'd do now LOL.
Henchmen21
Banned
Funniest thing about this is that the Unions that backed her were the ones that didn't allow it up for vote with their member and was all down to leadership choosing.
Who would have thought it to be revealed that PoliGAF is the worst GAF
old manatee
Banned
Am I doing it right?
I believe the phrase is 'amirite'. AMIRITE?
Poligaf was arrogant but demonizing them as some bullying entity is not going to help at all, we should be in a time for unity. I want to heal together not fling stupid shit and blame it on us. We recognized Clinton is a bad candidate in the long run though some still have some soft spots for her.
Crab at least the decency not to paint them as scum, he actually engages us and talks with us. Many from Poligaf respect him because of it. I do too.
It's partly venting, but also a reminder. PoliGAF systematically put down diverging thoughts and is seemingly retreated into their thread and will probably repeat this. PoliGAF's toxic attitude divided left leaning people, when we want to unite, we can't let their group dynamic get to the point again where people are bullied off the board.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=208215234&postcount=38
I engaged with PoliGAF members on topical threads in OT. And My experience was that I was being dog piled on and told that I should bend already. I saw that happen to others too. Look at this. This is what I got while trying to get people to work together.
D.Lo
Member
What some do is not address criticisms and say that none of them matter because:
- Trump voters are bad and it's their fault
- People said nasty things about her
- Some people in society are sexists or racsist
- It was the media's fault for talking about emails (which even if not criminal she clearly did some super stupid shit there)
- Millennials/Hispanics/other democrats should have turned out anyway because of Trump
- Bernie ruined her reputation with millenials
- Bernie would not have done better
- The election was close anyway
This thread alone is full of redirections like the above.
Of course some people will agree with the problems and also list other excuses, which is more reasonable.
I think you're overestimating the long term divide. Trump's first act of evil in the Oval will bring us back together. The concern isn't if we coalesce, it's where the energy and focus is put after that happens. If it slides back to the people running this recent shitshow then there's reason for alarm.
Poligaf needs to be nuked from the forums. I mean Gaf took a hardline stance on the Video Game side of things about how threads would be echo chambers and create negative community response when its just an echo chamber of like minded gamers.
Poligaf has evolved into nothing more than a Negative community of likeminded supposed political experts keen on destroying dissenting voices.
Poligaf has evolved into nothing more than a Negative community of likeminded supposed political experts keen on destroying dissenting voices.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
"We're nothing like that Tea Party that wants to crush all dissent! We just want to crush all dissent!"
Amazingly.
Admittedly, a lot of my posts are venting. I've waited here for like a year here before posting any sort of comment on politics. I've wanted to talk about the election, about my experiences volunteering for the Bernie campaign and the Clinton GE campaign the entire time. And my thoughts and concerns as the election approached. But I saw how anyone who wasn't a "YAAAS QUEEN" screaming true believer got shat on.
My frustrations with everything that's happened with the Clinton campaign have been boiling up for over a year.
I think there is absolutely an argument for having the election taken from her by outside factors. She was attacked by both the FBI as well as the Russians / Wikileaks. Having said that it is also her fault. The minute her deplorables speech was released I knew she irrevocably fucked up. The message was not about unity but us v them.
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