-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Clinton aides blame loss on FBI, media, sexism, Bernie, everything but themselves
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
- Status
The Shadow
Member
That's the main issue really. They did nothing, assuming all the "Trumpisms" would skirt attention away from all that. It really contributed to her unlikability and untrustworthiness.
Henchmen21
Banned
Or Gary Johnson.
I think sexuality is so complex, that it's impossible to categorically say she did not lose because she is a woman.
That's not to say any woman would have lost. But talking about Clinton specifically, to say her gender did not play any role in her defeat is not really a fair statement.
That said, guys, Hilary was a truly weak candidate and a poor leader for the Democratic Party. I thought it was true during the primaries, and the math now proves it. We love her in NY (and I voted for her), but to conservatives, she appears to be almost as ridiculous to them as Sara Palin appears to us. (And yes, I realize that is a sexist and very wrong statement to make. It's sad, but those are the views I think that rural America has even though I do not share them).
This is the most infuriating part of it all. She had all the signs that she wasn't the candidate for this time. If she had really cared about what was at stake, she would've stepped aside and let Democrats play it safe. Instead, she kept at it despite everything in the world telling her that it wasn't looking good. While you could say that's a good quality, it's no time to be playing these games and taking risks when so much was at stake. She just had to be the winner. It had to be her. Now minorities have to pay the price.
Stop this shit, tearing it all down and starting from scratch would take even longer to rebuild. Just get people like Podesta out of there.
It's nice to want things, but she's done.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
She's a politician to her bone and the wider public don't like politicians. Almost half don't even care about politicians at all. The fact she's a politican with a "dodgy" past that flip flops on a whole bunch of issues doesn't help this. The college educated poster on gaf may understand why politicians are the way they are but the average member of the voting public sure as hell doesn't. It's why things like charisma and wanting to have a beer with someone is so important to many. They don't want to feel alienated by the person they want to represent them
Who will pay to hear her speak now? Or Bill. I imagine all the light that was shone on their foundation will dry up a lot of donations.
Accurate. But if you stated something like this, you were sexist, homophobic, racist piece of shit according to GAF.
Bill will still get speeches, as he was a former sitting president. Hillary is up in the air, I don't think bankers will deal with her now that her political career is mostly over.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Eh, I think they're right.
Oh, I totally agree. Losing to Trump meant she's done.
I wouldn't vote for her if she ran again
I'm pretty sure she's done
Too many things have been exposed during this campaign about her and her tactics.
Audioboxer
Member
If Tony Blair can still go on to make silly money after Iraq I'm sure the Clinton's will be fine.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I'd actually be angry with her if she dared to have the audacity to do that. You don't fuck this badly then given the chance to fuck things up again.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Some of you need to stop covering your eyes, ears, and yelling la la la at the fact she won the primary nomination by a significant amount
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Tony Blair was an obscenely successful politician that that never actually lost an election. That's not to say Clinton won't make plenty of money with talks but that's an awful comparison.
To say she didn't lose because of sexism is straight up bullshit and denial of the highest order. "Charisma vacuum", people use that to describe her while being so totally unaware of the fucking double standard society placed on her. The way she sounds, the way she walks, the way she dresses. Why do you think so many gave no fucks about the pussy grabbing tape? Men think they own women. They will never see them as equals. Even if they display masculine traits like stone cold perseverance in the face of bullying like Hillary did, it's still wrong.
Maintenance
Member
Bernie by 2020 would be Yoda.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Wtf
You are proving his point. There was never a legitimate argument against Clinton, just conspiratorial bs.
In a world without the Comey letter, we'd be singing a completely different story despite the underlying facts remaining the same. I was one of the posters lamenting complacency, but its too easy to to learn the wrong lessons, like blaming being too favorable to gay marriage after the 2004 loss.
Father_Brain
Banned
And we've all seen how effective tying Trump to Putin was, so I'm not sure why you should assume that redbaiting attacks on Bernie would have worked.
The idea that Obama was some great uniter that white people embraced is embarrassing revisionist history. He's going to to be the new MLK: The best black friend of white America who proved that American racism doesn't exist because "Look there's a Negro in the White House"! And Obama doesn't even have the virtue of being a legit disruptive radical like MLK; he's a milquetoast Davos liberal that desperately tried to appeal to white folks and they still fucking hated him because of the color of his skin. They just refrained from shooting him in the fucking face, so progress or something.
lastflowers
Banned
Then help us tear down the structure that enabled her to get the nomination--namely ensure a more fair primary process and the abolition of super delegates. She won, but she was aided every step of the way by the DNC, and she still almost lost to the socialist jew.
There was quite a witch hunt for anyone that didn't fall in line with Hillary. A whole lot of baiting, usually by the same group of posters. Hopefully everyone has taken in as much humble pie as they can get and GAF can move on, better for it.
Because she did fuck all to communicate her platform and help dig her own grave by making her message be Trump is a dick to woman. It lost to 2% when it should be winning by landslide. All of Clinton's specific characteristics were a negative to the majority of the electorate. Not charismatic, out of touch, continuation of politics that haven't achieved their promises, Washington back scratching and big donors handling the game.
She only had an advantage on social aspects by having LGBTQ support and supporting racial groups. But that lip service and general reach isn't enough when individual families think they benefit more under trump.
She won the primary, but I think she should've known better. She lost in '08 and had a very high unfavorability rating. On top of that people just weren't enthusiastic about her. She lacked the charisma. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that she was a major risk. My point is that if she actually cared about minorities, she would've stepped aside and pushed someone that had a better chance. Anyway, now that her career is over and she no longer needs us, I wonder what she will focus on now. It isn't looking great though if she can't even take responsibility for her own campaign.
"I don't like Hillary, and I don't like Tr--"
"WTF. YOU'RE A MORON! YOU TRUMP SUPPORTER!"
"--But I think Trump is just as bad and--"
"GET THE FUCK OUT, YOU RACIST!"
---
You can "WTF" all you want, but that was basically the OT political threads shouting down anyone that didn't like Clinton. Y2Kev's smugness about Hillary and talking down Bernie supporters also didn't help.
His "point" is that Hillary's image sunk her. You can say I'm proving it, but he's right. Everyone that stated they had misgivings with Hillary were shouted down around here and told "everything will be alright when Queen Hillary is elected!" Bzzzt. No. The public still didn't like her, despite what GAF thought.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Audioboxer
Member
I'm talking about getting speaking events and making money from them. Clinton's will still do fine doing that.
Heck Hillary is probably primed to go on some Deplorables tour. How to fight Pepe.
"Both sides" was complete bullshit then and it's complete bullshit now.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Even as someone that was neutral in the Primary season there's no denying the that a lot of Clinton supporters on this website were absolutely ruthless to Bernie Sanders and his fans. Without proper context and framing some of the stuff with some of the stuff said you'd think he was amongst the most awful humans on the planet. He had his fair share of faults, but things did get quite ugly on here.
rokkerkory
Member
Blame yourself and only yourself!
You lead the DNC party, you own up to your loses.
You lead the DNC party, you own up to your loses.
friskykillface
Banned
Audioboxer
Member
Even those on GAF who were insufferable with the Yas Queen rhetoric didn't cause the election to go the way it did. All they did was make GAF uncomfortable. Hillary lost it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1276549
Look through this thread and witness how people were treated that were criticising Hillary on the deplorables statement. It's even more shocking in hindsight.
She won the primary fairly and Sanders fans still refused to be even remotely rational or conciliatory. What exactly was the other side supposed to do? Why should they be coddled like children when HRC's supporters in 08 never acted like that?
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
This I will admit. Sanders as a racist was a bit too much. That the BLM movement went as to be biased toward Clinton as a move against Bernie Bro's was just looking at branches instead of the forest.
Father_Brain
Banned
Of course PoliGAF didn't cause this, but it absolutely was symptomatic of the elite liberal thought bubble that Hillary's campaign was run out of.
Adam_Vania
Banned
so do we have a breakdown of where all that campaign money went? sounds like they just hired a bunch of yes-men and then spent it on the media echo chamber to construct the most flimsy bubble ever.
makes sense that some supporters are still living in that bubble, still looking for others to blame, trying to construct some narrative that lets them off the hook. they've been living in it for half a year now.
makes sense that some supporters are still living in that bubble, still looking for others to blame, trying to construct some narrative that lets them off the hook. they've been living in it for half a year now.
I think ultimately Clinton was a flawed candidate. She was winning and the campaign reacted accordingly. They should have done more to strengthen the fire wall in retrospect.
It does seem like there was a late shift (probably due to the FBI stuff) that the polls were slow to pick up on. However, due to how flawed Clinton was as a candidate, they should have been more careful and less aggressive in their strategy. I think their strat probably would have worked with a generic D, but not one as disliked as Clinton, esp with the FBI investigation.
It does seem like there was a late shift (probably due to the FBI stuff) that the polls were slow to pick up on. However, due to how flawed Clinton was as a candidate, they should have been more careful and less aggressive in their strategy. I think their strat probably would have worked with a generic D, but not one as disliked as Clinton, esp with the FBI investigation.
Audioboxer
Member
I don't disagree.
you are mostly right. However the issue I have with your assessment is that you are saying "she had this this this this and this stacked against her, and the DNC made some huge mistakes"
The problem is EXACTLY AND PRECISELY what those huge mistakes were. They called her a criminal and she did nothing to respond to that. They called her crooked and irresponsible and she did little to respond to that. She made mistakes, many, over the years and the opposition made that the target of their character assassination.. and she never addressed it. Why? Well.. we don't know. Maybe she thought it was taking the high road by not playing their game? Maybe it was hubris thinking she still had the election even with that stuff out there (thanks to HORRIBLE polling)?
Whatever the reason.. those huge mistakes the DNC made was essentially ignoring the attacks on her by the other party, and the other voters, and just going on with her message as usual.
Who knows what the DNC will be up against in 2018. I "hope" (honestly) that we aren't up against an absolutely failed and abysmal GOP platform... because that would mean that much of america's life will suck for the next two years. However.. if we are.. then at least that gives them a little more leeway in who they can run with.
The better hope is that America isn't totally fucked in 2018.. but has enough frustrating GOP rollbacks and regression, and the DNC has strong enough, non-establishment candidates who can get the voters excited.
Polling (uggh...) shows that in fact most of the country typically does not want to see roll backs on social and environmental policies. Remember that only 27% of the voting population voted trump into office. Most social and environmental issues show anywhere from slight majority favorability, to large majority favorability. Get a candaidate that charges up Dems and moderates alike and a strong GOP platform over the next two years should be easy to topple. But the DNC has to NOT do business as usual.
about the worst that can be said.. is that the Senate likely won't go blue until 2022 at the absolute earliest. It seems this cycle is the one that contains the most battleground seats. 2018 looks to be hard red, and 2020 looks to be hard blue.
legacyzero
Banned
If you think sexism is exclusively to blame, you are one of the reasons why she lost. I would argue that sexism has a factor, but I just think you're wrong if you think it's the only reason
Cenk Uygur breaks it down, and nails it
https://youtu.be/eNZmXhxuThU
Kyle Kulinski breaks it down and nails it
https://youtu.be/Qe2_uKyfi7E
But y'all chose to mock the non establishment media, and they were right all along. I'll say it again- if America was ready for a two term Black President, they're ready for a white Woman. It's not her gender. It's her.
Cenk Uygur breaks it down, and nails it
https://youtu.be/eNZmXhxuThU
Kyle Kulinski breaks it down and nails it
https://youtu.be/Qe2_uKyfi7E
But y'all chose to mock the non establishment media, and they were right all along. I'll say it again- if America was ready for a two term Black President, they're ready for a white Woman. It's not her gender. It's her.
I hope those campaign staff and people at the DNC are replaced with people who better understand why the Democrats lost this election. Sure, the reasons the surrogates cited are legitimate, but that isn't the whole story.
Owning up to all of those problems is the first step to fixing the situation.
Owning up to all of those problems is the first step to fixing the situation.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
You see a lot of the same garbage still happening now. The assertion that the Democratic party needs to rediscover its original appeal to the WWC is denounced with a brigade of straw-man arguments construing it as advocacy for dumping minorities and civil rights arguments. The implication then, just as the implication now, is that everyone who cast a protest vote against the establishment candidate or didn't vote for the top of the ticket at all is a sexist, racist homophobe that is both irredeemable and incapable of reason. It's insular, incestuous logic that has somehow taken hold here and it needs to be excised from the Democratic body politic like the malignant mass that it is.
That stupid comment that she made is a direct growth from that type of awful attitude.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked