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[Osahi]

No. There is not a single movie from the new renaissance that tops The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and especially The Lion King, which is still maybe GOAT in Disney history and one of GOATs in animation imo. These films not only pushed animation forward on a lot of levels (for instance the combination of CGI and 2D animation), they are in a sense close to perfect imo.

The new renaissance has some great movies (Tangled is easily the best one), but most of them, while good, have their faults... I feel for instance that most of them have weaker bits where the pacing is off or where the story doesn't really move forward because they get sidetracked by set pieces. Or in the case of Frozen they have a very weak (and completely unnecesairy) badguy.

And this is coming from somebody who is a big Disney-fan and sees their movies in general on opening weekend.

(I would also argue the current renaissance only started with Princess and the Frog); I don't think Meet the Robinsons and Bolt are on par with what comes after Production on both probably started before John Lasetter came on too.

 

[kswiston]

Best Picture Nod when only 5 films got nominations unlike the recent period where 10 Best Picture nods let them occasionally throw Disney a bone.

Was up in 91 which was a good year where the nominations were Beauty and the Beast, The Prince of Tides, Bugsy, JFK and the winner Silence of the Lambs.

Even with 8-10 BP slots, they gave up a pretense of giving animation a shot at the big prize after Toy Story 3 ended golden age Pixar.

 

[Nitemare1]

call me slow but can anyone explain why Wall-e , UP, and Ratatouille aren't part of the second list. Those are arguably the three best pixar movies period. Am i missing something ?

 

[WillyFive]

call me slow but can anyone explain why Wall-e , UP, and Ratatouille aren't part of the second list. Those are arguably the three best pixar movies period. Am i missing something ?

We are not talking about Pixar, the Disney Renaissance only refers to movies made by Disney themselves.

Best Picture Nod when only 5 films got nominations unlike the recent period where 10 Best Picture nods let them occasionally throw Disney a bone.


Was up in 91 which was a good year where the nominations were Beauty and the Beast, The Prince of Tides, Bugsy, JFK and the winner Silence of the Lambs.

Yeah, and it's worth noting that modern day Academy does not consider animated movies to be real films.

 

[Creaking]

call me slow but can anyone explain why Wall-e , UP, and Ratatouille aren't part of the second list. Those are arguably the three best pixar movies period. Am i missing something ?

Pixar != Walt Disney Animation Studios

 

[shintoki]

I'll have to disagree with you a lot.

1. You can't compare the modern reviews to reviews from 20 years ago on RT. Zootopia is 98%. Which is higher than every single one of those films. Hell, it's higher than stuff like Lawrence of Arabia, Alien, Godfather II, etc. Think about it like this.

In the top 100 films on RT you have : Inside Out, Toy Story 2, Toy Story 3, Up, Zootopia, and Finding Nemo for animation. The only two not before the 00's was Toy Story 1 and Pinocchio. There was a very different scale applied at the time.

2. A lot of new Renaissance is still largely lacking in creativity I feel. They've gotten better, but you can heavily tell they adopted Pixar's influence or trying to attempt to hanker back to the old Disney musicals. Occasionally they do well, but as a whole, I would say the musicals are falling short in comparison to the numbers from Little Mermaid thru Hercules. With their typical offerings lacking in comparison to Pixar(I feel like Zootopia is the first one they did to rise above it).

 

[Nitemare1]

We are not talking about Pixar, the Disney Renaissance only refers to movies made by Disney themselves.



Yeah, and it's worth noting that modern day Academy does not consider animated movies to be real films.

oh i get it now. i had to go back. I could have sworn big hero 6 and wreck it Ralph were Pixar. my bad.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Their hand drawn movies are far superior to their 3D films.

Frozen would have been much better as a 2d hand animated film.

 

[kswiston]

No. There is not a single movie from the new renaissance that tops The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and especially The Lion King, which is still maybe GOAT in Disney history and one of GOATs in animation imo. These films not only pushed animation forward on a lot of levels (for instance the combination of CGI and 2D animation), they are in a sense close to perfect imo.

The new renaissance has some great movies (Tangled is easily the best one), but most of them, while good, have their faults... I feel for instance that most of them have weaker bits where the pacing is off or where the story doesn't really move forward because they get sidetracked by set pieces. Or in the case of Frozen they have a very weak (and completely unnecesairy) badguy.

And this is coming from somebody who is a big Disney-fan and sees their movies in general on opening weekend.

(I would also argue the current renaissance only started with Princess and the Frog); I don't think Meet the Robinsons and Bolt are on par with what comes after Production on both probably started before John Lasetter came on too.

The new renaissance started with Tangled. I dont know why you would put the starting point back when their films were getting middling reviews and box office. Tangled was when Disney Animation finally got CG feautures right, and every film since has met with good to great reviews and box office (not counting Pooh which was low budget and sent to die).

Princess and the Frog closed off the previous decade of uneven efforts and box office disappointment.

 

[Bronx-Man]

There's so much focus on the two "eras" of Disney, but I've always been way more interested into why Emperor's New Groove and Lilo & Stitch are so damn good despite being surrounded by crap like Chicken Little and Home on the Range.

 

[WhiteWolf]

Absolutely not

Nothing touches Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin. The first two are moving works of art and the best films Disney has ever made. Mulan and Little Mermaid are also strong.

Agreed, nothing in this new era even comes close to reaching the quality of those older films. The songs are also just god awful.

 

[RainForce]

I don't care how well received the movies are, an animation renaissance with little to no 2D is not an animation renaissance to me.

 

[Osahi]

The new renaissance started with Tangled. I dont know why you would put the starting point back when their films were getting middling reviews and box office. Tangled was when Disney Animation finally got CG feautures right, and every film since has met with good to great reviews and box office (not counting Pooh which was low budget and sent to die).

Princess and the Frog closed off the previous decade of uneven efforts and box office disappointment.

I loved Princess and the Frog and think it is seriously underrated. For me it was the first Disney in years I truly enjoyed, and of which I thought: damn, they might be back. Tangled, which is the only one of the last ten years I consider exceptionaly good, confirmed it. What came after wasn't as good as Tangled, but still very enjoyable.

Haven't seen Moana yet though, as it isn't out yet in Belgium- (Well it came out today in Portugal, where I am for the week. I might go see it here on saturday if they show the English version)

 

[Garlador]

Too much computer generated nonsense, not enough hand-draw beautyness.

I was taught by a Disney animator who worked both sides and loves both as equal but different means of storytelling.

While classic hand-drawn Disney is just plain gorgeous, I've learned to really appreciate the CG stuff lately.

It also helped when he told me just how much CG was used in those original Disney films. Computers have a had a major role in the original Renaissance, ever since the Great Mouse Detective.

Disney had been using CG heavily for decades before they went full CG. It's incredible how many backgrounds, props, or scenes were entirely CG.

 

[GKSilKamina]

The new renaissance has been a blast to behold, but it absolutely does not hit the same levels that the previous one did.

Like, I enjoy the newer movies when I watch them but I end up largely forgetting them after viewing. Can't say the same for stuff like Hunchback, which I largely ignored as a child but was stunned by as an adult.

 

[Osahi]

I don't care how well received the movies are, an animation renaissance with little to no 2D is not an animation renaissance to me.

Since when is 3D no animation? Since Tangled their 3D animation is gorgeous too, thanks to not only brilliant animation itself, but also brilliant art design.

I adore 2D animation, and I would love them to go back to it, but I don't think it is a higher art then 3D animation.

 

[vinnygambini]

Pocahontas (1995, 56% Rotten on Rotten Tomatoes)

56% WAT?

Can't be right. It's criminal.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Disney is more global than ever, and the talent and the artists are more global than ever. It makes sense to me the quality is reaching new heights if your talent pool is so wide.

writers are more bold now too, since the technology lets them scrap and reinvent parts of the story while some engines of production have started moving.

 

[MMarston]

56% WAT?

Can't be right. It's criminal.

Visuals aside, Pocahontas is kinda eh.



What I'm surprised by on the OP is how Bolt got rated so high.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Is it weird of me that I sort of lump Great Mouse Detective and Oscar and Company with the previous Renaissance? Like, officially, no, that started with The Little Mermaid, for the reasons stated elsewhere in the thread (commercial success and critical acclaim), but as a kid I recall those two being about as good as the Renaissance films proper. Alas, I haven't seen either in forever - like, I recall watching Oscar and Company as a kid in the late '90s, but I can't remember when I last saw Great Mouse Detective - or Rescuers Down Under, for that matter. Hard for me to say if they hold up as well as they do in my head...

Anyway, as far as which Renaissance was better... Well, Zootopia is probably my favorite Disney movie of the lot, presently - though that's likely fleeting, since it's bounced around between Aladdin and Hunchback in the past (who knows, maybe Moana will supplant it this weekend or so). However, as far as which one gave me more of my favorites, it was the old Renaissance. Like, it's not even a fair competition. Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan... even lesser-loved films like Pocahontas and Hercules? It's like a perfect storm of awesome. This Renaissance, meanwhile, has Tangled, Wreck-It Ralph! and Zootopia, and Zootopia is the only one I feel really struck a chord with me of the lot. Thought Frozen was fun but incredibly overrated, and while I enjoyed watching it at the time, I keep forgetting Big Hero 6 even existed. I don't doubt my 1990s-era nostalgia and 2010s-era cynicism is playing a heavy part in this decision, though.

Oh, and I'm also one of those curmudgeons who misses 2D Disney. Those concept art sketches for Tangled looked damn near perfect for such a production! Paperboy didn't really sell me on the "3D imitating 2D" concept, either (I mentally just saw it as 3D with a fancy shader effect on top of it - worth a film in that style, perhaps, but not the outright 2D supplanter some made it out to be). That said, I probably wouldn't have Wreck-It Ralph! or Zootopia any other way than as they are.

 

[HeelPower]

I dont care about RT Review scores.

Its not nearly as good.Not half as good even.

 

[Sephzilla]

Great Mouse Detective is honestly where I think the Disney Renaissance started. I also think GMD is one of the most underrated Disney movies as well

 

[vinnygambini]

Visuals aside, Pocahontas is kinda eh.

But it gave us Colors of the Wind - such a beautiful song, and still Pocahontas has 56% while Bolt gets 89%! CRIMINAL!

Za power of Miley & Hannah Montana

 

[KHlover]

Personally I'd start the second renaissance at Tangled and revisit this thread in a couple years. I mean..."Meet the Robinsons"? "Bolt"? "Princess and the Frog"? Esp Princess and the Frog, that movie literally killed their 2D division, how could it be part of a renaissance?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I'm not sure any of the films from the new Renaissance will go down like some of the all-time greats of the first. That's really what we're talking about here: All-time greats versus a handful of entertaining ones.

Frozen will which is sad because that movie is weak.

 

[RainForce]

Since when is 3D no animation? Since Tangled their 3D animation is gorgeous too, thanks to not only brilliant animation itself, but also brilliant art design.

I adore 2D animation, and I would love them to go back to it, but I don't think it is a higher art then 3D animation.

I never said it's not animation nor did I say it looks bad. But outright killing an entire medium hinders variety, and that's not something I'll ever get behind as a good thing no matter how good the CG looks. It's also pushed it further into the animation ghetto, leaving us with just Japan if we want any kind of greater variety in mainstream animation.

 

[jax]

Not even close. The 2D era had some duds, but the classics have yet to be topped. Rotten Tomatoes isn't really a great source with older movies.

One of the worst things Disney Animation Studios ever did was throw out the 2D animation. They have yet to achieve that level of greatness again.

 

[WillyFive]

^ 2D animation only really affected the visuals of the movies, everything else remains unchanged, as story, characters, acting, music, writing, is all done by the time storyboards are made.

Frozen will which is sad because that movie is weak.

Frozen is a really good movie for a lot of reasons; despite the dumb fact that all the songs are nonsensically lumped together in the first 30 minutes of the movie.

 

[DirtyLarry]

I personally would say nothing topped anything and they are all equally great.
I believe good is good, great is great, and bad is bad for that matter, regardless of when something was initially created.

 

[Garlador]

Frozen will which is sad because that movie is weak.

I think a lot of Frozen hate is just general backlash because it was (and still is) just everywhere.

But, in all honesty, I find it just as solid as some of Disney's better films in the Renaissance. We look back at those films with rose-tinted glasses, but a lot of them are very, very pedestrian and elevated mostly by strong visuals and music instead of really compelling stories or characters (with some exceptions, such as Robin Williams as the Genie).

Frozen is overexposed, but not overrated, I believe. It has a strong message for both kids and adults (especially young girls). It challenges and breaks the mold on even some of its more "sacred cow" traditions. It's got energy, character, conflict, great music, and a very personal and intimate story.

I think it'll rightfully be remembered as a classic the same way we look back at The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Frozen is a really good movie for a lot of reasons; despite the dumb fact that all the songs are nonsensically lumped together in the first 30 minutes of the movie.

I'll agree to disagree. It only has two good songs (one of which had so little to do with the actual plot that it could be a generic pop song), and it turns the prince trope on it's head, but that's all it really has going for it imo.

 

[Sephzilla]

I don't like Frozen because the main thing people remember about the movie (Let it Go) is all about saying fuck you to your responsibilities.

 

[J2 Cool]

Just pick the top 4 of each

Zootopia
Frozen
Big Hero 6
Tangled

Vs

Lion King
Beauty and the Beast
Aladdin
Little Mermaid

Its no contest. The 90s big 4 ingrained themselves in pop culture, and are classic movies. The recent run is fine though, no execs stepping in and ruining it. 90s renaissance ended with Pocahontas' oscar pandering though, so it will certainly be outlasted by the modern stuff.

 

[WillyFive]

I don't like Frozen because the main thing people remember about the movie (Let it Go) is all about saying fuck you to your responsibilities.

That is not in the slightest what the song is about. It went WAY over your head.

It's about accepting who you are despite pressures from society for you to hide it. It shares a lot of themes with Reflection from Mulan. It's not about responsibilities, it's about identity.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Gonna be tough to beat the three movie run of Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King. Those three are the tentpole for the previous Renaissance and, imo, are unmatched in quality and story-telling.

 

[WillyFive]

Gonna be tough to beat the three movie run of Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King. Those three are the tentpole for the previous Renaissance and, imo, are unmatched in quality and story-telling.

What is special is that those three are among the most popular Broadway shows ever too.

 

[RocknRola]

A bunch of the recent movies are pretty good, but Lion King man...That makes my feels have their own feels! That good!

 

[JSevere]

I definitely think WDAS has been on a roll lately, I love everything they've done from Princess and the Frog to Zootopia (haven't seen Moana yet) and they're probably the most consistent studio in terms of putting out quality movies in the film industry today. That said, I don't think they've touched the 90s Renaissance cultural wise just yet, those are still on another level and considered some of the best animated films ever made with memorable characters, legendary soundtracks, iconic scenes, etc. that will be remembered for years to come. Villains like Ursula, Jafar, Scar, Hades, etc. and sequences like the Circle of Life, the ballroom dance, A Whole New World, etc. are well-known and engrained into the social consciousness for good reason. The new films are still wonderful of course, but time will tell if they're... well, truly timeless.

 

[Holyoneturtle]

I'd be more inclined to agree if they funded more 2D animation. I get it's expensive but it's fucking Disney.

They're still making money off of decades old movies. Don't tell me they can't fund an expensive old school animation project.

I guess I'd settle for stuff like Paperman, where the cg is indistinguishable from 2d animation.

PAPERMAN HAD CG!!!!!

 

[CyclopsRock]

Ugh, there's so much silly nostalgia goggles in this thread. People saying (with literally no evidence or basis at all) that "in 20 years people won't still be watching X" clearly don't understanding that kids today love these films just as much as we love the 2D ones.

 

[spekkeh]

Rottentomatoes doesn't work like that. 98% might be okay with a film (e.g. modern Renaissance), that doesn't mean they love it (e.g. first Renaissance).

 

[Garlador]

Ugh, there's so much silly nostalgia goggles in this thread. People saying (with literally no evidence or basis at all) that "in 20 years people won't still be watching X" clearly don't understanding that kids today love these films just as much as we love the 2D ones.

Basically. Those films we grew up watching were "our" films.

This new generation? These are THEIR films. And they're going to share them with THEIR kids.

 

[entremet]

Ugh, there's so much silly nostalgia goggles in this thread. People saying (with literally no evidence or basis at all) that "in 20 years people won't still be watching X" clearly don't understanding that kids today love these films just as much as we love the 2D ones.

You just made an argument for nostalgia

 

[Maximo]

I think a lot of Frozen hate is just general backlash because it was (and still is) just everywhere.

But, in all honesty, I find it just as solid as some of Disney's better films in the Renaissance. We look back at those films with rose-tinted glasses, but a lot of them are very, very pedestrian and elevated mostly by strong visuals and music instead of really compelling stories or characters (with some exceptions, such as Robin Williams as the Genie).

Frozen is overexposed, but not overrated, I believe. It has a strong message for both kids and adults (especially young girls). It challenges and breaks the mold on even some of its more "sacred cow" traditions. It's got energy, character, conflict, great music, and a very personal and intimate story.

I think it'll rightfully be remembered as a classic the same way we look back at The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

Its because its overrated

I mean it gave us Hans as a Disney Villain

When going through Disney's history of amazing Villains, Scar, Jafar, Ursula, ect we also sadly have to remember of this shitshow of a sunday ABC morning *Villain*, movie didn't need him but they sure as hell didn't give him any convincing reasons for *Ill never be my own king because I have too many brothers so im killing you and your sister* What a lazy boring and one of the most embarrassing characters in the Disney universe.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Not at all. Much of the current generation are just solid 7/10 movies.

Aside from Wreck-It Ralph, I haven't really been feeling Disney's CG efforts. Bring back 2D!

 

[OnPoint]

I don't get the love for Frozen. It sucks hard.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'd put Zootopia, Tangled and Frozen (not my favorite, but let's face it, Let it Go made it a classic) up there with the best of their prior era. I think they fell too hard into formula in the 2D era, from that list. (If anything, the new era might be having a bit too much fun subverting the prior, but I'm still enjoying it.)

Its because its overrated

I mean it gave us Hans as a Disney Villain

When going through Disney's history of amazing Villains, Scar, Jafar, Ursula, ect we also sadly have to remember of this shitshow of a sunday ABC morning *Villain*, movie didn't need him but they sure as hell didn't give him any convincing reasons for *Ill never be my own king because I have too many brothers so im killing you and your sister* What a lazy boring and one of the most embarrassing characters in the Disney universe.

I think that's one of the film's strengths, actually. The entire film is a subversion of Disney tropes, and the hard turn away from obvious villains is part of it. The man she loved turns out to be a total bastard using her for her position. His motivation was one-dimensional but also understandable.

I do think the film is pretty flawed - the story meanders, everything having to do with the trolls or whatever they were just doesn't work - but the villain never bugged me.

 

[KenzinFive]

I was taught by a Disney animator who worked both sides and loves both as equal but different means of storytelling.

While classic hand-drawn Disney is just plain gorgeous, I've learned to really appreciate the CG stuff lately.
.

Having just seen Moana, I'm telling you right now: Moana has some of the most gorgeous and jaw-dropping sequences/shots I have ever seen in a Disney movie. I was completely blown away with how it looked during certain scenes.

It's a Top 5 Disney movie for me now, and I think it's better than most of the late 80s-early/mid 90s renaissance. It's better than Zootopia, even if that movie is more densely written. And I thought Zootopia was incredible.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I'd be more inclined to agree if they funded more 2D animation. I get it's expensive but it's fucking Disney.

They're still making money off of decades old movies. Don't tell me they can't fund an expensive old school animation project.

I guess I'd settle for stuff like Paperman, where the cg is indistinguishable from 2d animation.

I feel fairly strongly that Frozen should have been 2D animation. It would have been cuter.

 

[UraMallas]

I think a lot of Frozen hate is just general backlash because it was (and still is) just everywhere.

But, in all honesty, I find it just as solid as some of Disney's better films in the Renaissance. We look back at those films with rose-tinted glasses, but a lot of them are very, very pedestrian and elevated mostly by strong visuals and music instead of really compelling stories or characters (with some exceptions, such as Robin Williams as the Genie).

Frozen is overexposed, but not overrated, I believe. It has a strong message for both kids and adults (especially young girls). It challenges and breaks the mold on even some of its more "sacred cow" traditions. It's got energy, character, conflict, great music, and a very personal and intimate story.

I think it'll rightfully be remembered as a classic the same way we look back at The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast.

This is a great post that I had to quote. I absolutely agree on all points.