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[sjay1994]

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What is this game. I don't remember it.

Spoiler

This is a terrible joke

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Did you not play the demo? All the characters are androids, and them not supposed to be showing emotions is likely going to be a big part of the game.



It's a combat visor, she can see through it and the male character wears one too.

Just because there's an excuse in-game it doesn't instantly make up for their shortcomings. The game's not out yet but so far from what I've seen I dont think Neir is a good example of positive female leads. Not when you have a character that covers her goddamn eyes but exposes her thighs, ass and wears stilettos when fighting monsters.

Yeah, I was gonna say...

Simply having female characters isn't the same thing as writing or designing them well. I liked Kainé, but there was zero reason she had to be dressed the way she was. Same thing for the protagonist of Automata. The little boy android is properly dressed. Did they just run out of clothes or something?

This is the problem with female leads in Japanese games as a whole. Sure they're there, but by and large they're designed to appeal to men just as much as a musclebound male protagonist would be. Would you really hold up Hyperdimension Neptunia as a bastion of diversity because it has nothing but female characters? Of course not.

The tragic thing is that Kat from Gravity Rush doesn't actually read like one of those female protagonists. She's got a very real and relatable personality. She's interested in getting a boyfriend (contrary to all of the waifu characters who exist in a state of permanent sexy sexlessness). And she's got flaws to round out her good qualities, rather than being a clumsy, overeating, bashful anime stereotype. And yet everybody treats her like one of the waifu characters anyways. Even her own game does sometimes, with the fetishy costumes. It's depressing as hell.

Couldn't have said it better myself. You hit the nail in the head.

 

[Kinyou]

That character just looked tan to me. Is she really black?

She's biracial but imagine for most that counts as black

Just because there's an excuse in-game it doesn't instantly make up for their shortcomings. The game's not out yet but so far from what I've seen I dont think Neir is a good example of positive female leads. Not when you have a character that covers her goddamn eyes but exposes her thighs, ass and wears stilettos when fighting monsters.

Not sure why people keep bringing up the eyes.

Doesnt this kind of make the point about the stilettos mute since it's obviously not going for realism?

 

[Weltall Zero]

The female lead in Nier is wonderful. She appears to have no personality at all, and her eyes are covered so you can focus on her exposed thighs and buttocks, rather than her soul or feelings. Just the way GAF likes it!

Kaine was even worse in terms of costume design. Every time I boot up Nier or youtube a sequence I cringe like it's the first time. It might be the most ridiculous outfit of all time, and in this medium you have to beat some real heayweights. Google "Kaine Nier" if you want, because linking images may be NSFW. Yes, she has underboob slit windows and ass windows. The lead above is just "undressed.

And the weird thing is, she managed to be a really unique and charismatic character even then (and even though her face, like most of Nier's has some serious uncanny valley shit going on). It's almost as if Yoko Taro intentionally handicapped himself to make her a serious and believable character in spite of her visual appearance (although the real reason is probably simply "to sell more").

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Only western devs seem afraid of female leads. Japan has never been afraid of female main characters.

Yeah, they just always make them sexy waifus.

Let's try and name Japanese female leads (playable) that aren't sexualized, shall we? How many are there really?

- Estelle Bright, Trails in the Sky.
- Yunica Tovah in Ys Origin. But she's a co-protagonist.
- Jeanne d'Arc in the game of the same name.
- Shanoa in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

Those are getting old, too. Most of these games are over a decade old. And most are relatively obscure/niche games too.

For AAA Japanese games, you have Resident Evil and FF13 with some famous female leads but of course they get skimpy outfits as alternate costumes because of course we gotta be able to ogle them.

The female lead in Nier is wonderful. She appears to have no personality at all, and her eyes are covered so you can focus on her exposed thighs and buttocks, rather than her soul or feelings. Just the way GAF likes it!

Bahahahahah

Spoiler

Don't forget her high heels and boob window

Did you not play the demo? All the characters are androids, and them not supposed to be showing emotions is likely going to be a big part of the game.

It's a combat visor, she can see through it and the male character wears one too.

And yet in the very demo they do show emotions (in an ultra-fake sounding, hokey as hell scene, mind). In any case, it's funny you should bring up the male android, since he's actually dressed properly.

I wonder why that is!

What I really want to see is a game (one I'd actually like to play) with a black female protag. It'd be especially refreshing to see her in a Japanese-made game. And just treat her like a normal person. Nothing stereotypical.

Remember Me's protagonist is (half) black. Her mom is black and her dad is white.
There's that AssCreed spin-off on Vita too, but then you'd have to play AssCreed, not worth it.

Yeah, I was gonna say...

Simply having female characters isn't the same thing as writing or designing them well. I liked Kainé, but there was zero reason she had to be dressed the way she was. Same thing for the protagonist of Automata. The little boy android is properly dressed. Did they just run out of clothes or something?

This is the problem with female leads in Japanese games as a whole. Sure they're there, but by and large they're designed to appeal to men just as much as a musclebound male protagonist would be. Would you really hold up Hyperdimension Neptunia as a bastion of diversity because it has nothing but female characters? Of course not.

The tragic thing is that Kat from Gravity Rush doesn't actually read like one of those female protagonists. She's got a very real and relatable personality. She's interested in getting a boyfriend (contrary to all of the waifu characters who exist in a state of permanent sexy sexlessness). And she's got flaws to round out her good qualities, rather than being a clumsy, overeating, bashful anime stereotype. And yet everybody treats her like one of the waifu characters anyways. Even her own game does sometimes, with the fetishy costumes. It's depressing as hell.

Good post.

I just want to say, fans treat non-sexualized female characters as waifus all the time too. Every Soulsborne level-up female NPC gets waifu'd by the fans even though they're dressed in the most modest ways possible (one of them is literally dressed like a grandma, lol). Fans are just gonna be creeps no matter what I guess.

But at least the creators of these games have some respect for their characters and don't give them fetish costumes for the otaku fans to ogle them, unlike in Gravity Rush, Resident Evil, FF13 etc.

Weak sauce. We have a female lead reference in our actual title (Cosmic Star HEROINE).

Plus she looks cooler than all of them!

Hey OP never specified what kind of female leads. I mean that's still a far cry from western devs who seem to be afraid of main characters that aren't straight, white, and hetero.

Depends on the female characters, but as a female player I'd often rather play a boring white dude over a dolled up fucktoy. *shrugs*

That's on the people making those screenshots.

Yeah, it's totally not the game that specifically designed this character that allows players to get those screenshots.

LOL please.

 

[Kaisos]

Not when you have a character that covers her goddamn eyes but exposes her thighs, ass and wears stilettos when fighting monsters.

Not that I don't think a less revealing outfit would have been better, but character writing is more than just outfit design.

It's almost as if Yoko Taro intentionally handicapped himself to make her a serious and believable character in spite of her visual appearance (although the real reason is probably simply "to sell more").

Or (less cynically) much like Kamiya and many other visionary directors, Yoko Taro just likes that kind of design.

 

[Crossing Eden]

That you're posting a quote from three of all characters makes me believe you don't even know a tiny bit of context.

Like I said, I know the context, and even with that knowledge, that dialogue is a steaming pile of shit.

Drakengard 3 is high art and I'll not hear another word said against it.

Nah.

Women are almost never written as like, sexual beings independent of their attraction to a given man (usually the male lead) in any media, at all.

The way they're written in Drakengard doesn't help at all in that regard.

 

[Taruranto]

Zero has a literal line about pegging a man. I don't think she really fits the "she's being sexy for the audience enjoyment" (Which would be something like DOA or even this Nier 2 lead)

"Woman collects harem of hot (mostly) dudes with 0 women in it" doesn't really strikes me as something made for the average straight dude. It's probably written to be weird more than anything, but I can safely say Zero was written as her own character first rather than a fetish checkbox.

 

[Plywood]

I think there's more to these games than their leads, not to say that they aren't noteworthy, but that they're also backed by unique settings and each have their own goals as a game in mind and if you want either trend to continue then there is only one way to make that happen. Buy, buy, buy.

 

[Kaisos]

- Estelle Bright, Trails in the Sky.
- Yunica Tovah in Ys Origin. But she's a co-protagonist.
- Jeanne d'Arc in the game of the same name.
- Shanoa in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

Virginia in Wild Arms 3.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

What I'm trying to say is that I really really like the new Fire Emblem art style and I hope they keep it going forward, lol.

At the very least, it's a better art style than the one they were using for the DS games...



The male leads in recent Japanese games are often designed to be attractive to the female audience too. Tales of Zestiria and FFXV are good examples of games with a pretty even (or even more skewed to women!) gender split in their fanbases.

I dunno, their side of the industry different, and I don't think it's any more worthy of criticism than the usual sort of gruff white dudes we get here in the west.

False Equivalency.

There's a stark difference between having an attractive character and a sexualized character. Noctis? Zestiria guy? Elena from Uncharted? Attractive. Cindy? That chick from Berseria? Sexualized.

 

[Plywood]

Dude, at least play the demo before you say such things....

In the demo, she mentions that androids like herself aren't supposed to show emotion, but amusingly enough, nothing outright prevents them from doing so. Throughout the demo, she repeatedly makes snarky comments about what's going on around her, and I just love her for it.

And the VA's delivery is top notch.

 

[Tohsaka]

And yet in the very demo they do show emotions (in an ultra-fake sounding, hokey as hell scene, mind). In any case, it's funny you should bring up the male android, since he's actually dressed properly.

I wonder why that is!



Yeah, it's totally not the game that specifically designed this character that allows players to get those screenshots.

LOL please.

I'm not going to say 2B isn't sexualized, but that doesn't prohibit her from also being a good character, and like I said the game actively discourages you from trying to look up her skirt because she'll manually move the camera away if you do it while she's just standing idle. There are multiple sexy male characters in the game, as well.

 

[Astral Dog]

One is a robot, so not technically female

 

[Hektor]

Like I said, I know the context, and even with that knowledge, that dialogue is a steaming pile of shit.

If you'd know the context you'd know that Three's dialogue is supposed to be shit because the entire character is a mockery of "JRPG villain with shit, wannabe deep dialogue" like most of KH's cast.

And the weird thing is, she managed to be a really unique and charismatic character even then (and even though her face, like most of Nier's has some serious uncanny valley shit going on). It's almost as if Yoko Taro intentionally handicapped himself to make her a serious and believable character in spite of her visual appearance (although the real reason is probably simply "to sell more").

Did you pay attention to how the characters within Nier reacted to her outfit? Cos i'd wager that was the reason for her outfit, considering that kaine also is the only one like that in the game.

 

[J-Skee]

She's not, I love Kat design, but they're starting with the questionable outfits already

When did they start showing alternative outfits for Kat?

 

[Astral Dog]

Yeah, they just always make them sexy waifus.

Let's try and name Japanese female leads (playable) that aren't sexualized, shall we? How many are there really?

- Estelle Bright, Trails in the Sky.
- Yunica Tovah in Ys Origin. But she's a co-protagonist.
- Jeanne d'Arc in the game of the same name.
- Shanoa in Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia

Those are getting old, too. Most of these games are over a decade old. And most are relatively obscure/niche games too.

For AAA Japanese games, you have Resident Evil and FF13 with some famous female leads but of course they get skimpy outfits as alternate costumes because of course we gotta be able to ogle them.


Bahahahahah

Spoiler

Don't forget her high heels and boob window

And yet in the very demo they do show emotions (in an ultra-fake sounding, hokey as hell scene, mind). In any case, it's funny you should bring up the male android, since he's actually dressed properly.

I wonder why that is!


Remember Me's protagonist is (half) black. Her mom is black and her dad is white.
There's that AssCreed spin-off on Vita too, but then you'd have to play AssCreed, not worth it.



Good post.

I just want to say, fans treat non-sexualized female characters as waifus all the time too. Every Soulsborne level-up female NPC gets waifu'd by the fans even though they're dressed in the most modest ways possible (one of them is literally dressed like a grandma, lol). Fans are just gonna be creeps no matter what I guess.

But at least the creators of these games have some respect for their characters and don't give them fetish costumes for the otaku fans to ogle them, unlike in Gravity Rush, Resident Evil, FF13 etc.


Plus she looks cooler than all of them!

Depends on the female characters, but as a female player I'd often rather play a boring white dude over a dolled up fucktoy. *shrugs*


Yeah, it's totally not the game that specifically designed this character that allows players to get those screenshots.

LOL please.

Only because Shanoa is a sexy tattooed nun

 

[Kaisos]

There's a stark difference between having an attractive character and a sexualized character. Noctis? Zestiria guy? Elena from Uncharted? Attractive. Cindy? That chick from Berseria? Sexualized.

Odd as it may seem, the kind of (Japanese) female audience that's attracted to characters like Noctis and... well, not Sorey, but rather the Sorey/Mikleo ship, doesn't really seem to like outfits that are TOO revealing? But the (Japanese) male audience that likes to see attractive female characters definitely does.

I don't really feel that you can claim false equivalence when the FFXV main cast is blatantly designed for the fujoshi audience, at any rate?

Again, there's something of a cultural gap going on here, I think? I dunno.

 

[Crossing Eden]

If you'd know the context you'd know that Three's dialogue is supposed to be shit because the entire character is a mockery of "JRPG villain with shit, wannabe deep dialogue" like most of KH's cast.

And five's dialogue is also shit. And so is Zero's, 2,3, and 4, it's straight up shit that's like "ow the edge more than anything." AND there's other ways to do that parody better.

 

[Nya]

I really don't get the big deal about female characters in sexy clothes. I mean, Kaine's outfit is ridiculous but that never stopped me from sympathizing or relating to her character. She's an interesting character who is both strong and independent, and was just as much as important as any male character in the game.

I feel the same about 2B, even though she's an android she still got character in her, and clearly shows some emotions by the end of the demo. I actually like her design a lot and I find it creative despite the butt-cheeks showing during combat but the doesn't bother me at all.

What I am trying to say is, as a female gamer, these things don't bother me. What bothers me is having useless female characters that you have to baby sit all the time (Ashley from RE4) or a female character that is so embarrassing it makes me cringe at the mention of her name (Quiet from MGSV).


Also, I appreciate this little fan-service from Nier ;P

 

[Morrigan Stark]

And despite the larger number of female leads, this hasn't changed. I'm hard-pressed to think of a single game where a set female protagonist forms a romantic relationship with a man. And once that starts happening with similar frequency to male protagonists having romantic subplots (or gay male romantic subplots start appearing) then I think we'll have started to move past objectifying women in video games.

You are sadly right. Estelle Bright is the only example I can think of it right now, and it's all very chaste (that's OK though, she's a teenager ).

Virginia in Wild Arms 3.

That game is even older than the ones I listed, lol. I could have listed Alys in Phantasy Star IV or even Alis in PS I but that's going really far back. Incidentally, it seems the quality of representation is improving when you go further back... xD

Zero has a literal line about pegging a man. I don't think she really fits the "she's being sexy for the audience enjoyment" (Which would be something like DOA or even this Nier 2 lead)

"Woman collects harem of hot (mostly) dudes with 0 women in it" doesn't really strikes me as something made for the average straight dude. It's probably written to be weird more than anything, but I can safely say Zero was written as her own character first rather than a fetish checkbox.

Who is Zero?

 

[Weltall Zero]

Or (less cynically) much like Kamiya and many other visionary directors, Yoko Taro just likes that kind of design.

That's the least flattering option of all towards Taro, so I granted him the benefit of the doubt. And no other director I respect gets this ridiculous in their designs; if you're comparing the trainwreck that is Kaine's wardrobe to Bayonetta's of all things, then I'm afraid our design sensibilities are so far apart than any conversation would need faster-than-light communication.

 

[Taruranto]

Who is Zero?

The main character from Drakengard 3. The game is awful, don't bother.

 

[LotusHD]

Yo release the damn game

Spoiler

Sorry, take your time

I really don't like Automata's protagonist design. It's not even because of sexualization (which it is, and it's unnecessary but not in itself what bothers me the most) but because it looks so random for a super powerful battle robot/android. I mean why is this battle bot dressed like that in the first place? I would have much preferred some bad ass, ornamented battle gear. After that comes the whole pandering thing which just adds to my displeasure with it. You don't need to do that in order to get me interested. I actually don't like it when I feel like I'm being coaxed by sexualized design, like it was necessary to get my money. I want good, badass design, not a "waifu" design. But who knows, maybe I'll be ashamed of my words and deeds and all that. The gameplay is fucking awesome.

Well like you said, the gameplay is "fucking awesome", so that alone could get someone to buy this game. From my perspective, they already know their game is lit, so it comes off more as them just wanting a sexy design/attire for their protagonist, which isn't an inherently bad thing. Seems like the designer or w/e usually likes making characters like that to begin with, but I dunno. Also it seems like most people are primarily interested in the gameplay, that it is the miraculous sequel to cult classic Nier, that the combat is being done by Platinum, the music, etc. etc. as the primary reasons to buy the game. 2B being bae or a waifu is just a bonus if anything to the majority that are interested in the game. Now if someone doesn't want to buy it because they are not feeling the design, then that's fine. But meh, I dig it. Her attire comes across as being just classy enough to work for me.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Saying "it's not as bad as X" or " well there's this other kind of fanservice" is probably the worst excuse, and it doesn't really help at all.

 

[Vex_]

alicia melchiott is old? How could you forget her?

 

[Astral Dog]

Ffxv team am not pleased

Tbh havimg a big rpg with only male party members focusing on their bond its kind of unprecedented, shame the plot ducks and characters are paper thin

 

[Kaisos]

That game is even older than the ones I listed, lol. I could have listed Alys in Phantasy Star IV or even Alis in PS I but that's going really far back. Incidentally, it seems the quality of representation is improving when you go further back... xD

Games marketing has changed a lot, which I think is part of the reason for designs like Kat's or 2B's (the other reason is that the creators like it.

WA3 isn't -that- much older than Trails though. 2002 vs 2004.

alicia melchiott is old? How could you forget her?

Welkin is the protagonist, not Alicia. Unfortunately.

 

[LotusHD]

She's not, I love Kat design, but they're starting with the questionable outfits already

I cringe so hard when I first saw this. I thought Kat for the most part would be "pure", with only stuff like the Spy outfit causing a little concern. Then they go and do this...

 

[Shredderi]

Well like you said, the gameplay is "fucking awesome", so that alone could get someone to buy this game. From my perspective, they already know their game is lit, so it comes off more as them just wanting a sexy design/attire for their protagonist, which isn't an inherently bad thing. Seems like the designer or w/e usually likes making characters like that to begin with, but I dunno. Also it seems like most people are primarily interested in the gameplay, that it is the miraculous sequel to cult classic Nier, that the combat is being done by Platinum, the music, etc. etc. as the primary reasons to buy the game. 2B being bae or a waifu is just a bonus if anything to the majority that are interested in the game. Now if someone doesn't want to buy it because they are not feeling the design, then that's fine. But meh, I dig it. Her attire comes across as being just classy enough to work for me.

Yes I do believe that to almost all people interested in the game those are the reasons why. Her design though is not a bonus in my eyes, but a detriment. Her design would go very well in a game that called for it in the game's context. I just want a badass looking gear for a badass powerhouse character. I think that can be very sexy too, without being sexualized.

 

[Quillbell]

Why would Zero need a romantic relationship when she has a harem, though?

I'm talking about larger trends rather than Zero specifically. But her having a harem basically conforms to the stereotype. She's sexy, she has sex, but she's also "available" in that she doesn't have a significant other. I'm not saying that she had to have a boyfriend or anything, but it's interesting that the female Drakengard protagonist got the story about being one of a collection of badass, sexy, singing magical girls, rather than a story about trying to rescue a loved one. Or why not something like Nowe's story in Drakengard 2? Hell, why wasn't Manah the protagonist of Drakengard 2? It would've made just as much sense.

See, I don't feel as though the objectification of women would be AS MUCH of an issue if men were objectified a lot too. But outside of certain specific Japanese games, they're not. And that's a little bit sad.

I...don't. You've gotta understand, "objectification" and "sexy" are not the same things. Sexy characters are great (though over-the-top sexy is another thing entirely, especially when it's the norm rather than the exception). But they're objectified if they're just there to fulfill a player's fantasies rather than being able to express desire themselves. That's what makes them a person rather than a prop.

Let's take Kat, for example. She's not objectified (despite awkward costume choices). She's not there to fulfill a fantasy. She's her own person. She's snarky, sometimes vain, but goodhearted.

She's probably the most realistic depiction of a young woman I've ever seen in a video game, warts and all. And the game allows her to want things. For example, she develops a crush on a handsome guy in one of the early chapters of the game.

The game also allows her to be vulnerable, and not necessarily in a "cute" way either, but in an almost painfully relatable way.

I'm not saying that every character needs to be Kat, but I think that we need more well-rounded characters who happen to be female. Objectification results in plastic, badly-characterized female characters, because they're there to be objectified.

 

[addik]

Just curious about Kaine's design: wasn't she ridiculed for being a hermaphrodite, which was partially why she decided to dress up as that way--to emphasize her femininity?

I mean, that doesn't make the design any less sexualized, but I thought the rationale behind the design was her embracing her (inter)-sexuality and projecting it to the world.

Which is why I cannot really judge on 2B's and A2's designs yet. Them being androids add another layer to their clothing and design. That is to say, a character, with his/her own biases and fantasies, designed them. It probably speaks a lot to that character itself and the world he/she lives on (does it sexualize females? Or does it revere women?). A2 is a bigger mystery considering her background

Spoiler

as an outdated android, thus the bolts present on her legs and the dress that is just seemingly painted on.

I can't speak for other Yoko Taro games because I haven't followed them.

Other than that, disregarding design, I am glas Q1 next year is filled with games with women on the forefront. I just hope the writing is up to par.

 

[Christhor]

Simply having female characters isn't the same thing as writing or designing them well. I liked Kainé, but there was zero reason she had to be dressed the way she was.

This is a pretty weird statement for someone to who didn't play Nier to make. Because they actually do explain it.

Spoiler

Before the start of Nier, Kaine ends up losing an arm and a leg. A shade possesses her and restores both of them, while aiming to take her body for himself. But Kaine gets some pretty strong resolve to live and is able to suppress the shade, but it's still got a large presence inside her, especially in her arm and leg. So what she does to try and convince herself that she's still human, is that she hides the shade-restored parts and reveals as much of her human skin as possible (without revealing her penis and breasts, because that would get censored everywhere) to really just make herself believe that she's still human.

 

[Kaisos]

She's sexy, she has sex, but she's also "available" in that she doesn't have a significant other.

In Japanese media (no I'm not an expert), the important thing is usually virginity, not availability per se. Drakengard 3 broke a lot of ground in that regard.

I...don't. You've gotta understand, "objectification" and "sexy" are not the same things. Sexy characters are great (though over-the-top sexy is another thing entirely, especially when it's the norm rather than the exception). But they're objectified if they're just there to fulfill a player's fantasies rather than being able to express desire themselves. That's what makes them a person rather than a prop.

Okay because people use "objectified" synonymously with "sexualized" so it's easy to get confused, see.

 

[True Fire]

You know, I didn't even notice that my 3 most anticipated games of Q1+2 2017 all have female leads. I think that's testament to how the industry is progressing.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I remember someone made a thread asking why Sony doesn't market Kat as their mascot or market her in general. I think everyone knows why.

 

[Vex_]

You know, I didn't even notice that my 3 most anticipated games of Q1+2 2017 all have female leads. I think that's testament to how the industry is progressing.

There we go! Positivity! And I agree! And I feel many people want to be immersion come early 2017! I know I'll be immersion playing as Kat and 2b.

 

[Quillbell]

This is a pretty weird statement for someone to who didn't play Nier to make. Because they actually do explain it.

Spoiler

Before the start of Nier, Kaine ends up losing an arm and a leg. A shade possesses her and restores both of them, while aiming to take her body for himself. But Kaine gets some pretty strong resolve to live and is able to suppress the shade, but it's still got a large presence inside her, especially in her arm and leg. So what she does to try and convince herself that she's still human, is that she hides the shade-restored parts and reveals as much of her human skin as possible (without revealing her penis and breasts, because that would get censored everywhere) to really just make herself believe that she's still human.

I did in fact play Nier (it was a while ago, but still) and that just smacks of a writer thinking, "well I have this design, let's think of a justification for it." You can in fact choose to write a character in a way that means she doesn't have to be dressed like a stripper. The writer just chose not to.

Video games, like all media created by humans, are a collection of choices. And it's valuable to analyze what these choices mean. It's stupid to say, for example, "well she's dressed the way she is because she wants to" because these characters are written by people. It's "she breathes through her skin" all over again.

 

[pronk420]

Maybe I'm wrong but a lot of the 'justifications' for the characters lack of clothes sound like the reasoning behind Quiet in MGSV, just some bullshit they made up to pretend that its deep and meaningful but really they just wanted to make an overtly sexualised design like every other game.

edit: that was weird, I wrote that before the post above

 

[addik]

In Japanese media (no I'm not an expert), the important thing is usually virginity, not availability per se. Drakengard 3 broke a lot of ground in that regard.

THIS is another thing that critics/analysts should take note when writing about gender roles in media--the local context. Many tend to look at western tropes when evaluating/critiquing a certain work. So while some characters may seem strange or normal to the Western audience, the local audience might find them subversive. We must remember that these games we're talking about are bigger hits in Japan, so the Japanese audience was presumably the focus.

That said, we should still call out on dangerous tropes regardless of the local context.

 

[Christhor]

I did in fact play Nier (it was a while ago, but still) and that just smacks of a writer thinking, "well I have this design, let's think of a justification for it." You can in fact choose to write a character in a way that means she doesn't have to be dressed like a stripper. The writer just chose not to.

Video games, like all media created by humans, are a collection of choices. And it's valuable to analyze what these choices mean. It's stupid to say, for example, "well she's dressed the way she is because she wants to" because these characters are written by people. It's "she breathes through her skin" all over again.

Why is it dumb? You could use the argument you're using right now about literally anything, so it would be nice if you actually explained why it's a poor justification for the clothes. Unlike Quiet, it actually ties nicely into her entire character. First you don't know Kaine's backstory and now you think that Nier came out after MGSV? Pretty sure you're lying about having played it.

 

[Hektor]

I did in fact play Nier (it was a while ago, but still) and that just smacks of a writer thinking, "well I have this design, let's think of a justification for it." You can in fact choose to write a character in a way that means she doesn't have to be dressed like a stripper. The writer just chose not to.

But the game is at no point trying to justify her outfit. Quite the opposite even. A lot of lines are being repeatedly spent on how ridiculous it is to wear such a thing.

 

[Christhor]

But the game is at no point trying to justify her outfit. Quite the opposite even. A lot of lines are being repeatedly spent on how ridiculous it is to wear such a thing.

"You could at least change into a new pair of undergarments, hussy" or something along those lines.

 

[Brix]

The more female leads the better. I love variety in my games. The dudebro protagonist is getting boring.

 

[Kinyou]

It feels like this is Bayonetta all over again. Don't think people will ever reach a consensus on sexy yet empowered characters.

 

[UrbanRats]

HZ has shown no media whatsoever where Aloy is sexualized thankfully.

Dat tactical midriff!

It feels like this is Bayonetta all over again. Don't think people will ever reach a consensus on sexy yet empowered characters.

They don't have to, thankfully.

 

[pronk420]

Why is it dumb? You could use the argument you're using right now about literally anything, so it would be nice if you actually explained why it's a poor justification for the clothes. Unlike Quiet, it actually ties nicely into her entire character. First you don't know Kaine's backstory and now you think that Nier came out after MGSV? Pretty sure you're lying about having played it.

When the default for games is women being overly sexualised for no good reason, I think it is right to be cynical when the character design looks like the usual ones, but they make up some story justification for it.

If you want to make good female characters but you can't even go as far as moving the character design away from the pandering overtly sexualised standard, making up weak story justifications around it is almost worse.

I don't think there even is any actual justification for it in Nier Automata? How is it ok because she's a robot?

 

[Moonkid]

I found myself less and less bothered by 2B's outfit as I played the game. During combat I noticed the flashing maybe once or twice, obviously it happened more often than that, because I was focused on playing the game. It became something I could ignore and I know that's not going to be the case for everyone. I'll give alternate outfits a go, if they're not bloody expensive, but I think I can live with it. I'm also not going to go out of my way for a stupid camera angle either. Even though I agree with the sentiment that it undermines her character, same applied to Kainé no matter the narrative justification, in practice it hasn't been an issue for *me*.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

I'm confused. Are sexy characters bad or just sexualization?

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

That game is even older than the ones I listed, lol.

In the same series, there's also Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF). That's from a newer game than Jeanne D'arc.