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[Primethius]

I'm actually a bit more excited for future TR games now. I skipped ROTR, due to disliking TR 2013 and a huge part was the really poor, frankly awful writing and characterization.

I wouldn't mind giving the series another go if they drastically improve that department in a post-UC less (by ND) world.

 

[hawk2025]

I think the first game had an acceptable story, despite the ludonarrative inconsistencies (herpderp, I used that word), but what happened in the second game that was bad? Was it just that they didn't evolve the character in any meaningful way and made her the meek character that she was at the beginning of the first game?

It's a White Savior plot where, amazingly enough, the native people are completely ok with her absurd motivations pretty much from the start.

She's not meek in Rise -- she's obsessed, but the writing is so bad that her obsession generates near-zero conflict with her allies.

 

[JP]

Read the Tomb Raider comics Rhianna wrote. They manage to be even worse than the games.

You're not really selling them to me.

 

[D i Z]

Hope she finds more success in whatever it is she landed on for the future.

 

[Fury451]

The actress for TR and RotTR was good, the script and characterization are what was lackluster.

Hope she's successful in the future though.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I liked her song Umbrella.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm playing Rise of the Tomb Raider.

I played the Croft Manor DLC.

And I confident saying that this is the best thing that happened to the series since CD made TR an uncharted clone.

They could improve this result by getting rid of the other writers too. They were pretty awful in of themselves.

Oh, while they're in the spirit of improvement, they could get rid of Camilla Luddington (though I'm of the opinion that maybe good direction will improve her performance).

 

[ebullientprism]

Wait. They actually paid a professional writer for that garbage?

I always imagined they had a giant whiteboard in the office where anyone coming and going could contribute the next line/scenario to the script.

 

[tuxfool]

Wait. They actually paid a professional writer for that garbage?

I always imagined they had a giant whiteboard in the office where anyone coming and going could contribute the next line/scenario to the script.

Not only that, the writer made all sorts of presentations on the importance of story and writing in videogames, along with its early integration into the design.

It is laughable in the way of those that can't do, teach.

 

[Harlequin]

Wait. They actually paid a professional writer for that garbage?

I always imagined they had a giant whiteboard in the office where anyone coming and going could contribute the next line/scenario to the script.

Considering most game developers' attitudes towards writing and writers, the two unfortunately aren't mutually exclusive .

Not only that, the writer made all sorts of presentations on the importance of story and writing in videogames, along with its early integration into the design.

It is laughable in the way of those that can't do, teach.

At least on the first game, she was brought in relatively late in the writing process, actually (at least as far as the overall plot goes - she did contribute quite a bit to the dialogue).

 

[patapuf]

I think the first game had an acceptable story, despite the ludonarrative inconsistencies (herpderp, I used that word), but what happened in the second game that was bad? Was it just that they didn't evolve the character in any meaningful way and made her the meek character that she was at the beginning of the first game?

Lara's main motivation for the adventure is to prove her father right. This is something she repeats ad nausea, Just in case you forgot. There is no meaningful character arc beyond that. She doesn't complain as much though.

The characters, be it her friends or (and especially) the antagonists are arguably even worse written than in the first game.


It's biggest offence though, is it's lack of charm and self awareness. The plot is Indiana Jones levels of dumb, full of small inconsistencies and characters that act stupidly. However they play everything straight, the dialogues are dull and the character motivations either don't make sense or are just boring (proving your father right). There is no big internal conflict, no meaningful arc - to the character or the story

This makes it impossible to turn your brain off and enjoy a dumb action movie narrative. It's not fun enough for that. And it lacks the depth and writing chops to take the story seriously.

No kidding. While the story in Rise is somewhat disappointing (I really don't like the McGuffin in particular), it's still lightyears beyond trash like FFXV. Now that's a series that needs a complete overhaul from the ground up. Conan summed it up perfectly as an "aggressive waste of time."

As fr Pratchett, we'll soon see if it was actually her talent holding the series back or CD's interference.

I don't know, while the overall narrative is a mess, FFXV at least establishes atmosphere, nails some character moments and tries to do something. It's not great, but i'll take the attempt over how the TR reboots turned out.

 

[Rooster]

Somehow I doubt being the writer meant she had creative control over the game.

I think a lot of you are laying too much blame at Rhiannas feet and you are going to be sorely disappointed when things don't improve the way you want them to.

 

[ebullientprism]

Considering most game developers' attitudes towards writing and writers, the two unfortunately aren't mutually exclusive .



At least on the first game, she was brought in relatively late in the writing process, actually (at least as far as the overall plot goes - she did contribute quite a bit to the dialogue).

But the second one is so much worse than the (already poorly written) first game. LOL.

This is the story of the second game-

Lara - "I have to find the source to prove my father right"
Native person - "Dont mess with that shit bruh"
Lara (not even listening) - "I must find the source."
Trinity - "DIE MUTHAFUCKAS!"
Lara - "I need to find the source"

And then repeat that scene about 12 times. I am not even kidding. She literally has the same conversation with the same person about 8-10 times during the game.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I didn't like the writing in TR2013 at all, but I really liked some of her previous works including Heavenly Sword and Overlord. I thought Nariko from HS was a really well written character whereas Lara was very poor. Not played Rise of the Tomb Raider Rising yet, although I'll probably pick it up on PS4 down the line.

This would be good news...if she didn't write the upcoming Shadow Of the Tomb Rader.

I hope Eidos Montreal switched the writer for that one!

That's such a bad name. Why are they continuing with this shitty naming trend?!

 

[tuxfool]

At least on the first game, she was brought in relatively late in the writing process, actually (at least as far as the overall plot goes - she did contribute quite a bit to the dialogue).

Sure, but then look at their results in the second game. As much as I agree with their much vaunted "methods", they haven't improved the quality of the narrative and writing vis-a-vis the first game.

I didn't like the writing in TR2013 at all, but I really liked some of her previous works including Heavenly Sword and Overlord. I thought Nariko from HS was a really well written character whereas Lara was very poor. Not played Rise of the Tomb Raider Rising yet, although I'll probably pick it up on PS4 down the line.

I liked her Overlord stuff. I very much suspect it is a team failure in TR.

 

[Harlequin]

But the second one is so much worse than the (already poorly written) first game. LOL.

This is the story of the second game-

Lara - "I have to find the source to prove my father right"
Native person - "Dont mess with that shit bruh"
Lara (not even listening) - "I must find the source."
Trinity - "DIE MUTHAFUCKAS!"
Lara - "I need to find the source"

And then repeat that scene about 12 times. I am not even kidding. She literally has the same conversation with the same person about 8-10 times during the game.

I think they're about equally awful as far as writing and story goes. Again, though, we don't know how much influence she had over the second game's story. For example, I'm pretty sure she once said that she was against giving Lara's father such a prominent role in Rise but was overruled by Crystal (who apparently have some sort of weird obsession with hamfisting Lara's dead or missing parents into every single Tomb Raider game they develop even though her parents were always alive and healthy in Core's timeline).

Sure, but then look at their results in the second game. As much as I agree with their much vaunted "methods", they haven't improved the quality of the narrative and writing vis-a-vis the first game.

I never said that she had more creative control in the second game, though. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, we don't really know. All we know is (or well, maybe we know a few more details but all we know in a nutshell is) that most of the first game's plot and characters were in place before she joined and that she was mostly responsible for cutscene dialogues (though, apparently, she would also look over the in-game dialogues written by one of Crystal's in-house writers who, in turn, would look over her cutscene dialogues).

 

[Jb]

I don't know, while the overall narrative is a mess, FFXV at least establishes atmosphere, nails some character moments and tries to do something. It's not great, but i'll take the attempt over how the TR reboots turned out.

Yeah at least they tried something somewhat different with the whole bros on a roadtrip thing.
Rise of the TR managed to be the both completely derivative and cringe-worthy. A rare feat. And I'm not talking about the plot, I'm talking about every single dialogue scene in the game.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

ROTTR had terrible writing, so... okay.

And she's actually a pretty good writer, so I dunno what went wrong.

Is she? I think her resume is really weak. I'd be hard pressed to single out a game she was the lead writer on that was strong on story.

 

[SunBroDave]

Fantastic news, the writing in those Tomb Raider games was trash and it was a bit frustrating watching Pratchett get all sorts of praise for her role in those games.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Time to bring Rihanna the hugely famous musician instead

Who?

 

[Elios83]

If she was responsible for the atrocious story and writing of ROTR this is a HUGE positive news

 

[Parsnip]

Considering the story, writing and character development in the two games, this can only be good news.

Now they just need to get rid of Luddington and get Keeley Hawes back, and we are in business.
But that's probably not going to happen.

 

[Jennipeg]

I feel bad saying 'great news' but fuck it this is great news. Lara is now ruined for me as a character, fingers crossed someone else can get things on track.

 

[JayEH]

Wasn't a fan of her work with the reboot (didn't play much of rise to judge) so I'm all for a new writer.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It's a White Savior plot where, amazingly enough, the native people are completely ok with her absurd motivations pretty much from the start.

She's not meek in Rise -- she's obsessed, but the writing is so bad that her obsession generates near-zero conflict with her allies.

Most of the natives were white though.

 

[hawk2025]

It's definitely the case that the game design simply ignores whatever she writes as well and we end up with mind-numbingly dumb scenarios, too.

Case in point: the native that gives out a sidequest... Asking Lara to raid their secret tombs. Really?

That's the kind of thing that understandably is out of the control of the main writer.

However, the very core of the Rise plot and nearly all character motivations are completely bizarre, unearned, or otherwise missing altogether. It's kind of hard to put all that down to meddling, IMO.

Most of the natives were white though.

Which has its own issues, but the color of the skin is irrelevant. That's the name of the trope. Call it "civilized foreigner saves mystical natives despite creating their situation" if you'd like.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Who?

 

[semiconscious]

Great news. The story, plot and characters in the 2 new games are bloody woeful.

this! should've happened after the first game. instead, we got a hidden lost tribe from syria that migrated to siberia centuries ago, who somehow are all white & speak perfect english - iow, a level of pulp that even most other pulp doesn't stoop to anymore! ...

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

At this point I've grown too attached to sociopath Lara.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I didn't dislike the writing in the first two games, but they can certainly be better. Hopefully Tomb Raider will be better for this and Rhianna can go stretch her creative legs on a cool new thing. I bet working with the relaunch of Tomb Raider would be a daunting and stessful experience.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Thank god! The stories for both titles were terrible.

 

[Brandon F]

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[hawk2025]

At this point I've grown too attached to sociopath Lara.

I'd be cool with sociopath Lara if everyone acted like she's a sociopath, and not their best new friend!

This is a completely valid path to go down, but they need to commit to it.

We could have had some cool gameplay twists as well like three-way conflict combat scenarios in Rise if the natives had reacted to her like you would expect them to.

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The divine sauce!

 

[Fasty]

After Mirrors Edge, Viking and the two TR games, games writing might not be for her.

I loved the story in Mirrors Edge. I was disappointed that the sequel was going to be a reboot.

Tomb Raider just felt like genetic video game story/characters 101 but the same mediocrity was present in the entire game, not just the writing

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

After Mirrors Edge, Viking and the two TR games, games writing might not be for her.

There are plenty of of other game writers that have done worse than her. This isn't an industry that breeds the best quality writers.

 

[Harlequin]

There are plenty of of other game writers that have done worse than her. This isn't an industry that breeds the best quality writers.

And oftentimes it's also not an industry that lets skilled writers actually do their job properly.

 

[hawk2025]

And oftentimes it's also not an industry that lets skilled writers actually do their job properly.

But like... shouldn't at least a couple of good things shine through if that was the case?

Or some parts of the writing showing wasted potential?

What can we point to in Rise that would qualify?

 

[Aaron]

There are plenty of of other game writers that have done worse than her. This isn't an industry that breeds the best quality writers.

The first TR reboot has one the worst stories I've ever seen in videogames. Awful dialogue, endless plot holes, a plot you couldn't give a shit about, and side characters you can't wait to die. The extra effort put into it beyond normal videogame writing just makes it extra offensive. Rise was better, but wasn't anything I'd call good.

 

[Lime]

Have your people call my people

 

[-MD-]

They should hire an actual writer for the next game.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Good, because her writing was awful and just a bunch of ripping off other things.

 

[Karkador]

Kinda curious to know what the standard for 'good Tomb Raider writing' is supposed to be

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

They should hire an actual writer for the next game.

Gail Simone? She wrote the Tomb Raider comics for a while and I heard they were fine. She's a huge fan of the games.

 

[FairFriend]

They need to assemble Core.

Man, I wish this would be possible...unfortunately many of them left game development altogether

Thinking about it they should hire Murti Schofield, AoD's plot, dialogues and characterizations were pretty good for the series' standard.

 

[Elios83]

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Incredible Incredible Incredible Prophet Incredible!

LOL

 

[Lucreto]

I hope this gives her more time to work on The Watch TV series which was announced before Terry was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I liked the potential for the sequel to go into a serial killer lara direction. She had to kill a lot of people in the first game and it was a very grimy and dirty game. The first trailer with her in a shrink room made the impression that it was going to explore some unique angles.

it would have been cool to see her kinda trip out and have to really try and rediscover herself as she bloodied her hands and really became morally unhinged in regards to what she was able to do to people, and really have that pushed in the story side as well as the player side.

But that's just my viewpoint on the subject.

The sequel ended up being pretty boring with her pretty much bouncing back and being as stale as white bread just like the rest of the scenario.

 

[nampad]

The writing of te first game was ass, I am about to play Rise soon but I guess her leaving the franchise is a great thing.

 

[Lime]

Kinda curious to know what the standard for 'good Tomb Raider writing' is supposed to be

Don't put it front-and-center in a game with over 3 hours of cutscenes in addition to grating in-game dialogue would be one way.

 

[NightShift]

I don't want to blame her for all of the reboot series' faults since I doubt SE would give just her the creative control. But the writing felt like bashing my head against the wall so I hope this fixes that at least.