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[Schopenhauerian]

...she viewed the old Lara as "a male character with boobs"...

...LC was always just tits and badassery...

I do think this view of 'Classic Lara' is mistaken, but it's certainly understandable.

If this means she doesn't have anything to do with the next game, I'll take it as good news. I liked the last two games in the series, but mostly disliked the story and characters - especially in Rise. The way they weakened Lara in that game and made everything about her father and his legacy is a tragedy. I guess they were going for deeper motivations and inner growth, but Lara never comes across as her own person, instead remaining Richard's obsessed daughter throughout the whole thing.

Interesting... I suspect that this won't result in the future Tomb Raider titles being better-written unless they change their writing process and/or replace their in-house writers (depending on which of those is the main culprit behind the reboot games' bad writing - process or personnel)...

It's a confluence/amalgamation of (1) design philosophy at Crystal Dynamics ("how do we integrate the narrative with our AAA engagement loops of shooting and explosions?"), (2) the game director asking Pratchett for certain themes and premises that needs to be met, (3) the voice director directing based on the manuscript, (4) Luddington's interpretation and performance of the manuscript and what the director tells her, and (5) finally Pratchett's own abilities as a writer. Something needs to be done in regards to the series and its atrocious narrative, so I guess this is better than nothing when it's clear no one learned anything when it came to the sequel's handling of narrative. Finally, I think it's easy to call in to question Pratchett's abilities as a writer given the atrocious stereotypes in the 2013 game with an angry black woman, spiritual Samoan, brainless jock, drunk Irish, Wise old guy, unethical scientist, evil Russian, and so forth. I have no idea how those characters came to be.

It's good news if Cara Ellison takes over in writing or narrative duties on a new Tomb Raider. And they bring back Toby Gard somehow.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=876611

On the following point, though:

...I'm pretty sure she once said that she was against giving Lara's father such a prominent role in Rise but was overruled by Crystal (who apparently have some sort of weird obsession with hamfisting Lara's dead or missing parents into every single Tomb Raider game they develop even though her parents were always alive and healthy in Core's timeline)...

Toby Gard should stay far away from Tomb Raider. It was reportedly his idea to make Lara's search for her parents the focus in Legend. That alone should give you a good idea of how much he didn't understand the character anymore (despite originally coming up with it)...

Is there a good source on Gard's specific contributions to the Crystal Dynamics games, in his role as an advisor? It would seem likely that he understands the character better than the folks at Crystal Dynamics (also: link), but what you've mentioned would certainly be cause for concern.

 

[FairFriend]

Kinda curious to know what the standard for 'good Tomb Raider writing' is supposed to be

.

 

[Toa TAK]

Let me write the new Tomb Raider.

It'll be awesome. So much historical fiction, mythology, and ancient artifacts inside significant TOMBS. And no daddy issues.

 

[Zojirushi]

I assume she has already finished writing the script for the upcoming Tomb Raider game at this point? Just asking seing how people get their hopes up in here.

Also, as always, people forget that a script and what ends up in the final game can be very different things. That's why we sometimes see these seemingly strange choices for the writers guild awards.

 

[Kinyou]

The dialogue in the new games was just abysmal so I'm honestly not going to miss her one bit.

Gail Simone? She wrote the Tomb Raider comics for a while and I heard they were fine. She's a huge fan of the games.

Now that's an idea

 

[cilonen]

I'm playing Rise of the Tomb Raider.

I played the Croft Manor DLC.

And I confident saying that this is the best thing that happened to the series since CD made TR an uncharted clone.

CD making TR an uncharted clone was the worst thing to happen to Tomb Raider since Kurtis Trent though, or was that your point?

Either way let's hope the 'new trilogy' idea is now dead and Edios Montreal reboots things.

 

[sublimit]

And nothing of value was lost.

 

[grosvenor_92]

The writing certainly wasn't great however I wish her luck with whatever she does next

 

[FairFriend]

Is there a good source on Gard's specific contributions to the Crystal Dynamics games, in his role as an advisor?

The twenty anniversary book they released

 

[WickedLaharl]

Thank God her writing was an atrocious blight on what was otherwise great games.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

CD making TR an uncharted clone was the worst thing to happen to Tomb Raider since Kurtis Trent though, or was that your point?

Either way let's hope the 'new trilogy' idea is now dead and Edios Montreal reboots things.

Why do another reboot? This one is still successful.

 

[VeryNicePerson]

Got to find the divine source.

More seriously, best of luck to her. Not a fan of her contribution, so I'm more interested to see where the series is heading next.

 

[MikeDown]

The garbage story was probably the least of RotTR's problems.

 

[FoxSpirit]

From what I gather from the replies, she hasn't come after he father in terms of writing.

But seriously, what's with bad writing in game. Always sounds like some idiots wanting to "prove" something thourgh their writing instead of telling a good tale with interesting characters.

 

[Harmen]

The writing in the TR reboot was terrible stuff, though I must admit I loved the campy atmosphere quite a bit. I have yet to play Rise. People told me it is even worse in that one though, so I am not sure what to expect.

Kids these days. This is embarassing

This is one of the reasons I am so impressed with UC4, ND designed a story and made chapters almost entirely without action because it suited the overall plot/events better. Not exactly 1 hour free of shooting or anything, but ND carefully considered building the gameplay around the settings and plot progression (and start the game with a flash forward to at least have a little action to get players hyped).

I wish Crystal Dynamics/SE had the balls to take the cinematic/story aspects more seriously because the current form of TR falls flat on its face in that regard. If you want to write an emotional story in the way they attempt to, you can't just go guns blazing from the get go and create a massive dissonance with the plot. I know people say the same about UC, but for me TR is a far, far worse offender.

 

[///PATRIOT]

Camilla Luddington is Lara's voice actress.

Rhianna Pratchett appears to be a writer on the series based on her twitter account.

I love her voice acting, sexy.

 

[MikeDown]

This is one of the reasons I am so impressed with UC4, ND designed a story and made chapters almost entirely without action because it suited the overall plot/events better. Not exactly 1 hour free of shooting or anything, but ND carefully considered building the gameplay around the settings and plot progression (and start the game with a flash forward to at least have a little action to get players hyped).

I wish Crystal Dynamics/SE had the balls to take the cinematic/story aspects more seriously because the current form of TR falls flat on its face in that regard. If you want to write an emotional story in the way they attempt to, you can't just go guns blazing from the get go and create a massive dissonance with the plot. I know people say the same about UC, but for me TR is a far, far worse offender.

Gonna have to play UC4, heard the latter half of the game slowed down and dragged out a bit. This true?

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Is there a good source on [Toby] Gard's specific contributions to the Crystal Dynamics games, in his role as an advisor? It would seem likely that he understands the character better than the folks at Crystal Dynamics (also: link), but what you've mentioned would certainly be cause for concern.

The twenty anniversary book they released

Thanks! I see that the book was put together by Meagan Marie. Incidentally, ICYMI, a fellow GAFer apparently met with both Meagan Marie and Nathan McCree, after last month's Tomb Raider Suite in London:

Link to image.

I attended the suite on Sunday, it was incredible.

I've written a bit about it here.

Nathan is a really decent guy, willing to talk to all of the fans, and Shelley Blond, the original voice of Lara as well.

First time I've met Meagan Marie, she's very passionate about the series too.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Kids these days. This is embarassing

Blame the market that wants AAA explosions 24/7. We're all guilty.

 

[Harlequin]

Is there a good source on Gard's specific contributions to the Crystal Dynamics games, in his role as an advisor? It would seem likely that he understands the character better than the folks at Crystal Dynamics (also: link), but what you've mentioned would certainly be cause for concern.

This piece of information came from Eric Lindstrom who worked at Crystal back in the LAU days. He was fired after Underworld underperformed and subsequently answered some fan questions over at TRF. Toby was merely working as a consultant on the games so he wasn't able to make any decisions but, according to Eric, he was the one who made the initial suggestion to have Lara look for her lost mother and, to me, him even thinking that that could be a good idea tells me that he doesn't understand Lara as well as someone who had such an influence on her characterisation/presentation should have. That being said, a lot of the other things Lindstrom said about how he and Toby viewed Lara (a "well-behaved psychopath") sound spot-on which makes it all-the-more surprising and disappointing that they thought the whole parents BS was a good idea. Here's a link to a Wiki article detailing Eric's TRF posts (they say that the user wasn't sufficiently verified but TRF's admin is very trustworthy - if he said it was Eric, then it was Eric):

https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php/The_“Eric_Lindström”_posts

This SO much. Even in the truncated state it was released in, Angel of Darkness' story is one of my favourite pieces of video game writing ever. It feels criminal that we never got a proper sequel (and generally speaking, the way Core were treated - even before and during AoD's development but especially afterwards - was nothing short of despicable).

 

[Machinehead]

ROTTR had terrible writing, so... okay.

And she's actually a pretty good writer, so I dunno what went wrong.

I'd like to know also. I was excited when they announced her as the writer, but it ended up being a huge letdown.

 

[True Fire]

Who wants to bet that she was ousted? Tomb Raider needs a soft reboot tbh.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Kinda curious to know what the standard for 'good Tomb Raider writing' is supposed to be

Minimalist.

 

[hawk2025]

I mean, we can start with:

- don't lean on harmful stereotypes
- don't brush aside every supporting characters' motivations to indulge the main character's obsession


That would go a long way already.

To prop up Lara's journey, they've made everyone else a ridiculous caricature to the point of being near-offensive.

Start there, or drop the pretension of having a serious story with serious cutscenes in the first place and just have us chase a McGuffin without all this damn baggage.

 

[hans_castorp]

I still cry every time I read that surname.

Man, I miss her father : (

 

[kamineko]

This is good news for both Prachett and Lara.

Writing since the reboot has been the low point of the games for me. There must be a better niche for Prachett elsewhere.

 

[-shadow-]

This SO much. Even in the truncated state it was released in, Angel of Darkness' story is one of my favourite pieces of video game writing ever. It feels criminal that we never got a proper sequel (and generally speaking, the way Core were treated - even before and during AoD's development but especially afterwards - was nothing short of despicable).

The story was so good despite the many plotholes and whole sections just missing altogether because the development problems. But man the game and story deserved so much more. I wish they actually remake the game and continue the original semi-planned story from there on out.

 

[newtypepilot]

I've played TR 2013 and the writing was atrocious so I guess that's good for the franchise?

 

[grandwizard]

Good news for the series. The writing in the two latest games was awful. I still don't know why she was kept on for a second game after the reboot turned strong and confident Lara into a weak and crying girl always in need of help, had a cast full of racial stereotypes, and topped off with three different men dying to save our 'heroine'.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Good news for the series. The writing in the two latest games was awful. I still don't know why she was kept on for a second game after the reboot turned strong and confident Lara into a weak and crying girl always in need of help, had a cast full of racial stereotypes, and topped off with three different men dying to save our 'heroine'.

She also got praise from certain circles and the reboot sold well enough to keep her on board. It's not hard to see.

Minimalist.

The real answer is nobody played Tomb Raider for the story.

 

[hawk2025]

She also got praise from certain circles and the reboot sold well enough to keep her on board. It's not hard to see.


The real answer is nobody played Tomb Raider for the story.

As I asked a few pages ago, I'm still trying to understand what exactly was praise-worthy.

Anyone wants to take a stab at it?

 

[black070]

Great news.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

As I asked a few pages ago, I'm still trying to understand what exactly was praise-worthy.

Anyone wants to take a stab at it?

An honest effort at modernizing Lara for a modern audience.

 

[hawk2025]

An honest effort at modernizing Lara for a modern audience.

Can you expand on that a little bit more?

What does it mean to modernize Lara? How does the writing achieve that?

 

[dragonflys545]

Good, the story was terrible for both game...

 

[tuxfool]

As I asked a few pages ago, I'm still trying to understand what exactly was praise-worthy.

Anyone wants to take a stab at it?

The writing team is deluded about the quality of their work. The concept for the first game was good. Not so much the execution.

 

[hawk2025]

The writing team is deluded about the quality of their work. The concept for the first game was good. Not so much the execution.

It wasn't just them, though.

TR 2013 actually got a few awards for its writing!

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Can you expand on that a little bit more?

What does it mean to modernize Lara? How does the writing achieve that?

I'm not a writer but my guess would be to reinvent a character to match today's culture.

 

[tuxfool]

It wasn't just them, though.

TR 2013 actually got a few awards for its writing!

I know Rotter did, I wasn't aware that TR did.

 

[hawk2025]

I'm not a writer but my guess would be to reinvent a character to match today's culture.

...of wanton murder, daddy issues, and exploiting minorities and natives under the guise of friendship?


I... I guess that fits?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

...of wanton murder, daddy issues, and exploiting minorities and natives under the guise of friendship?


I... I guess that fits?

You see it that way and other people see it as a strong female character trying to survive.

 

[hawk2025]

You see it that way and other people see it as a strong female character trying to survive.

A strong female character trying to survive might arguably fit the beginning of Tr2013, but it has jack to do with Rise, I'm afraid.

Being inexplicably propped up and exploiting others is not strength.

 

[dgrdsv]

Is this good news? I never played those games but I kept reading how the writing was really bad.

This wholly depends on who will be taking the writing helm now. I mean, we have cases where things have gotten even worse without Rhianna Pratchett.

 

[BiggNife]

After Mirrors Edge, Viking and the two TR games, games writing might not be for her.

ME1's story certainly wasn't the best in class but it was at least miles better than the absolute garbage story in Catalyst. At least Rhianna didn't write Faith as a selfish asshole who constantly disobeys orders and directly leads to dozens of people being killed.

 

[Yabberwocky]

It's good news if Cara Ellison takes over in writing or narrative duties on a new Tomb Raider. And they bring back Toby Gard somehow.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=876611

It would be so amazing for Cara to ever work on a Tomb Raider, I love her essays. She also did Dishonored 2, right?

 

[AHA-Lambda]

TR reboot and ROTR writing was indeed mediocre. Wonder if the next one will be better or worse.

This. My god ME was awful.

 

[jimboton]

For the first game she said the game designers altered her story for gamplay reasons, i.e. more than 1 hour without shooting anyone is a no-no so fuck character development and here's a gun. The characters are all awful though, and that's on her. Never played the second game.

It would have been better for TR if Rhianna stayed and the game designers left.

 

[Plumpbiscuit]

Good, she ruined the 2 reboot games. Hopefully somebody will bring back the sassy, classy, sexy Lara.

 

[potatohead]

It would be so amazing for Cara to ever work on a Tomb Raider, I love her essays. She also did Dishonored 2, right?

There's no way she would agree to do it.

Why the heck would Ellison want to be tied down by the restrictive minds that run Square Enix today.

Absolute mismatch.

 

[captainnapalm]

I thought the story in the first game was alright in a dumb, pulpy way, but the plot of RoTR was really bland and boring. Derivative, but way less interesting and exciting than any of the stuff it's cribbing from. The characters were all one-note and totally uninteresting as well - Lara included. I never cared about the prophet or anything involving him or his people.

They definitely need a change of approach. You can have so much fun with Tomb Raider, basically riffing on Indiana Jones. They need to set the bar way higher.